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angrypuppy
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PostPosted: Mon Aug 31, 2020 10:43 am    Post subject:

From what little we know, Vaughn hasn't stood out in camp (tough for any rookie this season) and James has been dropping passes to the point where it is a big concern. I'll stick to my guns Stu.

And the Eagles could have an interest. To me, Chicago has an immediate need, but perhaps Fournette is viewed as more trouble than he's worth.
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PostPosted: Mon Aug 31, 2020 11:05 am    Post subject:

angrypuppy wrote:
From what little we know, Vaughn hasn't stood out in camp (tough for any rookie this season) and James has been dropping passes to the point where it is a big concern. I'll stick to my guns Stu.

And the Eagles could have an interest. To me, Chicago has an immediate need, but perhaps Fournette is viewed as more trouble than he's worth.


Well, Jordan Howard wasn't considered a good fit for Nagy's scheme, so I don't see why Fournette would be, either. Maybe the Steelers? Conner seems like a big injury risk.
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PostPosted: Mon Aug 31, 2020 3:08 pm    Post subject:

ChickenStu wrote:
Leonard Fournette isn't good at football. Has averaged 4.0 YPC in his career. Had the third-worst broken tackle rate last season among backs that got any work whatsoever. Got a lot of carries inside the 10 yet scored only 3 rushing TD's all year. His production last year was simply because he got a lot of work. He wasn't good on a per-touch basis.

Maybe he turns his career around after a fire gets lit under him because it seems the league doesn't really care for him (no one would even give up a 7th round pick for him at his $4MM salary), but the data suggests he's not a good player.


With such a big body he has been pretty poor inside the 5. Rumors that he wants to be a Ram.
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PostPosted: Mon Aug 31, 2020 4:20 pm    Post subject:

venturalakersfan wrote:
ChickenStu wrote:
Leonard Fournette isn't good at football. Has averaged 4.0 YPC in his career. Had the third-worst broken tackle rate last season among backs that got any work whatsoever. Got a lot of carries inside the 10 yet scored only 3 rushing TD's all year. His production last year was simply because he got a lot of work. He wasn't good on a per-touch basis.

Maybe he turns his career around after a fire gets lit under him because it seems the league doesn't really care for him (no one would even give up a 7th round pick for him at his $4MM salary), but the data suggests he's not a good player.


With such a big body he has been pretty poor inside the 5. Rumors that he wants to be a Ram.


Maybe he misses Ramsey haha. That would seem like a weird fit though, given that they just used a 2nd round pick on Cam Akers.
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PostPosted: Wed Sep 02, 2020 8:44 am    Post subject:

The timing of Fournette's release couldn't have been worse, as camps are now breaking up. Fournette might have to sit and wait for a RB injury.
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PostPosted: Wed Sep 02, 2020 11:10 am    Post subject:

angrypuppy wrote:
From what little we know, Vaughn hasn't stood out in camp (tough for any rookie this season) and James has been dropping passes to the point where it is a big concern. I'll stick to my guns Stu.


Vaughn with Tampa? If I recall, he was early COVID casualty, and in he was behind by the time he got to practice to the point where early in the season, he will likely be on special teams at most. James...did you mean Jones? If so, he is expected to be a 1st and 2nd Down back almost exclusively. Supposedly they still like Dare Ogunbowale as a 3rd down back....but I have never seen much from him on the field.
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PostPosted: Wed Sep 02, 2020 1:46 pm    Post subject:

adkindo wrote:
angrypuppy wrote:
From what little we know, Vaughn hasn't stood out in camp (tough for any rookie this season) and James has been dropping passes to the point where it is a big concern. I'll stick to my guns Stu.


Vaughn with Tampa? If I recall, he was early COVID casualty, and in he was behind by the time he got to practice to the point where early in the season, he will likely be on special teams at most. James...did you mean Jones? If so, he is expected to be a 1st and 2nd Down back almost exclusively. Supposedly they still like Dare Ogunbowale as a 3rd down back....but I have never seen much from him on the field.



Yes, Jones. I have this annoying tendency to never edit my posts before hitting the submit button. The latest item on Jones is that he has cleaned up his drops and has been working harder on pass protection. That just came out today, but then lots of positive hype is generated at the end of camp. I remain skeptical, those are rather new attributes. The problem is that I noticed Brady's mechanics change as last season progressed, as he was getting belted often, before Wynn returned to LT. I don't attribute Brady's decline to age last season, it was mostly a combo of bad mechanics from hits and pressures, and having to wait for separation from what was easily the worst receiving corp (WRs and TEs) in the NFL who also didn't know the playbook. The latter won't be a problem in Tampa Bay (other the familiarity and communication), but the pass protection is a huge question mark for the Bucs.

Vaughn came off the Covid list in early August. From what I recall, he's had one good day which was either late last week or early this week. Other than that, he simply hasn't stood out.
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PostPosted: Wed Sep 02, 2020 2:18 pm    Post subject:

New England is waiving Mohamed Sanu.

As I posted earlier in this thread, it can take longer than a year to rehab from a severe high ankle sprain. I had doubts as to his effectiveness as slot receivers need to make sharp cuts, something that is impossible to do if your ankles are not sound.

It was an expensive mistake. Belichick paid way too much (a second round pick) for Sanu, who is just a WR3 that benefited from playing alongside Julio Jones.
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PostPosted: Wed Sep 02, 2020 2:34 pm    Post subject:

angrypuppy wrote:
New England is waiving Mohamed Sanu.

As I posted earlier in this thread, it can take longer than a year to rehab from a severe high ankle sprain. I had doubts as to his effectiveness as slot receivers need to make sharp cuts, something that is impossible to do if your ankles are not sound.

It was an expensive mistake. Belichick paid way too much (a second round pick) for Sanu, who is just a WR3 that benefited from playing alongside Julio Jones.


It was an awful trade the moment it happened. Can't believe they gave up that much for a mediocre WR. (Said in my Richard Sherman voice.) Yeah, I realize he got hurt, but he was never a good enough player to warrant giving up a 2nd Round pick.

And Fournette is apparently drawing interest from the Patriots and...the Bucs. Right after they talked up Ronald Jones in the press today. Hmm.
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PostPosted: Wed Sep 02, 2020 4:29 pm    Post subject:

angrypuppy wrote:
adkindo wrote:
angrypuppy wrote:
From what little we know, Vaughn hasn't stood out in camp (tough for any rookie this season) and James has been dropping passes to the point where it is a big concern. I'll stick to my guns Stu.


Vaughn with Tampa? If I recall, he was early COVID casualty, and in he was behind by the time he got to practice to the point where early in the season, he will likely be on special teams at most. James...did you mean Jones? If so, he is expected to be a 1st and 2nd Down back almost exclusively. Supposedly they still like Dare Ogunbowale as a 3rd down back....but I have never seen much from him on the field.



Yes, Jones. I have this annoying tendency to never edit my posts before hitting the submit button. The latest item on Jones is that he has cleaned up his drops and has been working harder on pass protection. That just came out today, but then lots of positive hype is generated at the end of camp. I remain skeptical, those are rather new attributes. The problem is that I noticed Brady's mechanics change as last season progressed, as he was getting belted often, before Wynn returned to LT. I don't attribute Brady's decline to age last season, it was mostly a combo of bad mechanics from hits and pressures, and having to wait for separation from what was easily the worst receiving corp (WRs and TEs) in the NFL who also didn't know the playbook. The latter won't be a problem in Tampa Bay (other the familiarity and communication), but the pass protection is a huge question mark for the Bucs.

Vaughn came off the Covid list in early August. From what I recall, he's had one good day which was either late last week or early this week. Other than that, he simply hasn't stood out.


I read Vaughn had the best run of this past weekends scrimmage....that is within the context that the only other RB play that supposedly stood out was a Jones catch and run out of the backfield.....so the RB's as a whole had a poor showing per what I was reading. I personally am still hopeful in regards to Jones....not very confident in much else in the RB room right now.
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PostPosted: Wed Sep 02, 2020 5:00 pm    Post subject:

Fournette to the Bucs. I expect a RBBC now, with Jones still leading the committee in early-down work early in the season for sure, and Fournette possibly eating into that as the season progresses and he learns the playbook. If Jones looks great, though, they have no reason to change him getting the vast majority of the carries. If not, I guess Fournette is an insurance policy. Ogunbuwale likely stays the 3rd down guy. Perhaps McCoy will be a cut candidate if Fournette looks like he's clearly better than him. I doubt that they will keep 5 RB's, and Vaughn surely won't get cut.
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PostPosted: Wed Sep 02, 2020 5:27 pm    Post subject:

ChickenStu wrote:
Fournette to the Bucs. I expect a RBBC now, with Jones still leading the committee in early-down work early in the season for sure, and Fournette possibly eating into that as the season progresses and he learns the playbook. If Jones looks great, though, they have no reason to change him getting the vast majority of the carries. If not, I guess Fournette is an insurance policy. Ogunbuwale likely stays the 3rd down guy. Perhaps McCoy will be a cut candidate if Fournette looks like he's clearly better than him. I doubt that they will keep 5 RB's, and Vaughn surely won't get cut.


going to be interesting.....supposedly McCoy has did and said everything right since arriving.
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PostPosted: Wed Sep 02, 2020 5:44 pm    Post subject:

adkindo wrote:
ChickenStu wrote:
Fournette to the Bucs. I expect a RBBC now, with Jones still leading the committee in early-down work early in the season for sure, and Fournette possibly eating into that as the season progresses and he learns the playbook. If Jones looks great, though, they have no reason to change him getting the vast majority of the carries. If not, I guess Fournette is an insurance policy. Ogunbuwale likely stays the 3rd down guy. Perhaps McCoy will be a cut candidate if Fournette looks like he's clearly better than him. I doubt that they will keep 5 RB's, and Vaughn surely won't get cut.


going to be interesting.....supposedly McCoy has did and said everything right since arriving.


Hmm, they did pay Fournette $3.5MM. As some on Twitter have pointed out, consider this: if they loved Ronald Jones so much, why have they...

--Drafted a RB in the 3rd Round
--Signed LeSean McCoy
--Signed Leonard Fournette

I think I'm going to have to amend my previous post. Unless Jones looks really great early on, their actions suggest that Fournette will be given the opportunity to be the lead guy on early downs, once he's up to speed. Jones is probably going to have to play really well to maintain a big role.
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PostPosted: Wed Sep 02, 2020 5:50 pm    Post subject:

ChickenStu wrote:
adkindo wrote:
ChickenStu wrote:
Fournette to the Bucs. I expect a RBBC now, with Jones still leading the committee in early-down work early in the season for sure, and Fournette possibly eating into that as the season progresses and he learns the playbook. If Jones looks great, though, they have no reason to change him getting the vast majority of the carries. If not, I guess Fournette is an insurance policy. Ogunbuwale likely stays the 3rd down guy. Perhaps McCoy will be a cut candidate if Fournette looks like he's clearly better than him. I doubt that they will keep 5 RB's, and Vaughn surely won't get cut.


going to be interesting.....supposedly McCoy has did and said everything right since arriving.


Hmm, they did pay Fournette $3.5MM. As some on Twitter have pointed out, consider this: if they loved Ronald Jones so much, why have they...

--Drafted a RB in the 3rd Round
--Signed LeSean McCoy
--Signed Leonard Fournette

I think I'm going to have to amend my previous post. Unless Jones looks really great early on, their actions suggest that Fournette will be given the opportunity to be the lead guy on early downs, once he's up to speed. Jones is probably going to have to play really well to maintain a big role.


Your point is logical....cannot argue with it making sense, but I still believe in Jones. We saw this kid @ USC be dynamic. We will see how it shakes out, but they clearly had to say something to Fournette that he liked because he probably had a few options as opposed to McCoy who was likely just trying to get a contract. I could see a chance Vaughn getting stashed on the practice squad.
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PostPosted: Wed Sep 02, 2020 5:55 pm    Post subject:

adkindo wrote:
ChickenStu wrote:
adkindo wrote:
ChickenStu wrote:
Fournette to the Bucs. I expect a RBBC now, with Jones still leading the committee in early-down work early in the season for sure, and Fournette possibly eating into that as the season progresses and he learns the playbook. If Jones looks great, though, they have no reason to change him getting the vast majority of the carries. If not, I guess Fournette is an insurance policy. Ogunbuwale likely stays the 3rd down guy. Perhaps McCoy will be a cut candidate if Fournette looks like he's clearly better than him. I doubt that they will keep 5 RB's, and Vaughn surely won't get cut.


going to be interesting.....supposedly McCoy has did and said everything right since arriving.


Hmm, they did pay Fournette $3.5MM. As some on Twitter have pointed out, consider this: if they loved Ronald Jones so much, why have they...

--Drafted a RB in the 3rd Round
--Signed LeSean McCoy
--Signed Leonard Fournette

I think I'm going to have to amend my previous post. Unless Jones looks really great early on, their actions suggest that Fournette will be given the opportunity to be the lead guy on early downs, once he's up to speed. Jones is probably going to have to play really well to maintain a big role.


Your point is logical....cannot argue with it making sense, but I still believe in Jones. We saw this kid @ USC be dynamic. We will see how it shakes out, but they clearly had to say something to Fournette that he liked because he probably had a few options as opposed to McCoy who was likely just trying to get a contract. I could see a chance Vaughn getting stashed on the practice squad.


I'm guessing they will cut McCoy. I can't see Vaughn going unclaimed, and they have to know that. He makes next-to-nothing as a 3rd Round pick. Like, why wouldn't Jacksonville claim him, just to name one team?
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PostPosted: Wed Sep 02, 2020 6:30 pm    Post subject:

ChickenStu wrote:

I'm guessing they will cut McCoy. I can't see Vaughn going unclaimed, and they have to know that. He makes next-to-nothing as a 3rd Round pick. Like, why wouldn't Jacksonville claim him, just to name one team?


I know it is a business, but that feels all kinds of cold. Somewhat related, I think Armstead could be a smart sleeper pick in FFL. I loved that guy in college, and supposedly he came in this year down about 15 pounds, faster, and more explosive...which was a big reason they released Fournette. As a Senior at Temple, he got banged up late in the season which diminished his overall numbers, but go back and take look at that stretch against Boston College (171 rushing yards), UCF (142 rushing yards) and Houston (210 rushing yards)! The guy looked like a man among boys. It can be claimed that BC and Houston were not great, but that UCF team was the team that lost to LSU in the bowl game after losing their QB and in my opinion was better than the undefeated 2017 team.....and they could not slow him down.
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PostPosted: Wed Sep 02, 2020 6:38 pm    Post subject:

The Bucs really have no room to add a receiver....but Sanu could be a great fit. A lot of people thought the draft pick Tyler Johnson would be a factor in the slot receiver role, but there is a real question if he even makes the roster since I think he is still not practicing due to injury. Now they claim to really like Scotty Miller and Justin Watson potentially in the slot if Godwin moves back outside opposite Evans...but neither are as physical or proven as Sanu...and I would think Sanu would have an easy path to getting open with defenses having to deal with Evans, Godwin, Gronk, Howard, Brate and now Fournette coming out of the backfield as an option.

Again, I doubt it is even considered, and probably not needed....but I can see it working.
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PostPosted: Wed Sep 02, 2020 6:47 pm    Post subject:

angrypuppy wrote:
but the pass protection is a huge question mark for the Bucs.


I am bias, but I am not really concerned about it if healthy. I expect Wirfs to be as good as Dotson @ RT early on, and by mid season be a decent improvement over Dotson. Also, having Joe Haeg as a utility backup lineman may be big for this team as last year, anyone coming off the bench seemed to be an immediate and large dropoff in ability. After Haeg, not much depth which will be a problem if guys get injured. The line last season caught a lot of crap because they gave up a lot of sacks, but so many of those were on Winston who was famous for holding the ball too long. I think it was Pro Football Focus ranked them #14 or #15 in the NFL in their post season analysis taking into account Winston refusing to throw the ball away and Jones not really having a good feel for the playbook until the 2nd half of the season. Tampa threw the ball so often and lacked a running game for much of the season, it really made life difficult for the OL as defenses pretty much just pinned their ears back and attacked.

Is the line going to be the envy of the NFL? Definitely not, but I do not expect them to be a noticeable weakness for the most part.
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PostPosted: Wed Sep 02, 2020 6:59 pm    Post subject:

adkindo wrote:
The Bucs really have no room to add a receiver....but Sanu could be a great fit. A lot of people thought the draft pick Tyler Johnson would be a factor in the slot receiver role, but there is a real question if he even makes the roster since I think he is still not practicing due to injury. Now they claim to really like Scotty Miller and Justin Watson potentially in the slot if Godwin moves back outside opposite Evans...but neither are as physical or proven as Sanu...and I would think Sanu would have an easy path to getting open with defenses having to deal with Evans, Godwin, Gronk, Howard, Brate and now Fournette coming out of the backfield as an option.

Again, I doubt it is even considered, and probably not needed....but I can see it working.


Yes, let's get another big-name-but-not-as-good-as-his-name-suggests player to the Bucs! LOL. Seriously, I'm not a fan of Sanu and never was.
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PostPosted: Wed Sep 02, 2020 7:06 pm    Post subject:

ChickenStu wrote:
adkindo wrote:
The Bucs really have no room to add a receiver....but Sanu could be a great fit. A lot of people thought the draft pick Tyler Johnson would be a factor in the slot receiver role, but there is a real question if he even makes the roster since I think he is still not practicing due to injury. Now they claim to really like Scotty Miller and Justin Watson potentially in the slot if Godwin moves back outside opposite Evans...but neither are as physical or proven as Sanu...and I would think Sanu would have an easy path to getting open with defenses having to deal with Evans, Godwin, Gronk, Howard, Brate and now Fournette coming out of the backfield as an option.

Again, I doubt it is even considered, and probably not needed....but I can see it working.


Yes, let's get another big-name-but-not-as-good-as-his-name-suggests player to the Bucs! LOL. Seriously, I'm not a fan of Sanu and never was.


I guess I was just higher on him than you. Guy is a tough cover out of the slot....and he is very physical for a slot receiver which makes him hard to arm tackle and he can block downfield. Maybe his name was larger than his production? I am not sure...but he has been productive when healthy.

Don't hate Stu....
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PostPosted: Wed Sep 02, 2020 7:06 pm    Post subject:

Agreed, he's a WR3 on most NFL teams, and on the Bucs he's wasted cap space and redundant. Tampa Bay has one proven quality slot receiver, and three high quality TEs who can play in-line
I don't see the point of signing Sanu once he clears waivers.

TB will sign Fournette.
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PostPosted: Thu Sep 03, 2020 11:02 am    Post subject:

angrypuppy wrote:
Agreed, he's a WR3 on most NFL teams, and on the Bucs he's wasted cap space and redundant. Tampa Bay has one proven quality slot receiver, and three high quality TEs who can play in-line
I don't see the point of signing Sanu once he clears waivers.

TB will sign Fournette.


who are you labeling a proven slot receiver?
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PostPosted: Thu Sep 03, 2020 11:26 am    Post subject:

adkindo wrote:
angrypuppy wrote:
Agreed, he's a WR3 on most NFL teams, and on the Bucs he's wasted cap space and redundant. Tampa Bay has one proven quality slot receiver, and three high quality TEs who can play in-line
I don't see the point of signing Sanu once he clears waivers.

TB will sign Fournette.


who are you labeling a proven slot receiver?



Chris Godwin is a proven slot. Both Evans and Godwin can play inside and outside, but Godwin had more production from the slot than Evans, and in fact had more catches and yardage from the slot than as a flanker.
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PostPosted: Thu Sep 03, 2020 3:06 pm    Post subject:

^
Yeah, Godwin works great from the slot, though he can play outside as well. I wonder if Brady wants Miller on the field in the slot, though. Perhaps his brain doesn't compute without a white slot WR for him. (I joke...kind of.)
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PostPosted: Thu Sep 03, 2020 4:47 pm    Post subject:

ChickenStu wrote:
^
Yeah, Godwin works great from the slot, though he can play outside as well. I wonder if Brady wants Miller on the field in the slot, though. Perhaps his brain doesn't compute without a white slot WR for him. (I joke...kind of.)



I believe Scotty Miller is more flanker than slot receiver.
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