Worldwide Coronavirus Thread (US death toll passes 1 Million - that's right, 1 Million dead)
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ChefLinda
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PostPosted: Sun Jul 12, 2020 7:26 am    Post subject:

LarryCoon wrote:
GoldenChild wrote:
Like it or not, this is the new normal. Just have to let it run its course. It's not something that can be stopped. Gotta start living your life but wear a mask of course if you're around the vulnerable people.


Pretty much the exact opposite of everything you said, but what else is new?


Luke had the same reaction to GoldenChild's post:

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PostPosted: Sun Jul 12, 2020 7:58 am    Post subject:

jodeke wrote:
GoldenChild wrote:
Like it or not, this is the new normal. Just have to let it run its course. It's not something that can be stopped. Gotta start living your life but wear a mask of course if you're around the vulnerable people.

That's the kind of thinking that will keep the virus with us longer. It's not going to "run it's course." It has to be attacked with the same vigor it's attacking us. It, like measles, polio, flu, to name a few, is here to stay. A vaccine is on the way to check it.

The CDC gave us guidelines to combat the disease. Other countries have done the things necessary, test, contact trace, masks, social distance and their lines have flatten and some have dipped.

It's not going to be a new normal for some time to come. Just the verbiage NEW NORMAL is enough to scare the hell outa me.

Lastly, we have to go to the polls and rid ourselves of the scourge that's allowing the pandemic to spread. The Oval Office and both houses.

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PostPosted: Sun Jul 12, 2020 8:07 am    Post subject:

15,300 cases today here in Florida. Unreal.
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PostPosted: Sun Jul 12, 2020 8:32 am    Post subject:

trmiv wrote:
15,300 cases today here in Florida. Unreal.


You guys aren't drinking enough beer in aluminum cans and eating enough bacon.
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PostPosted: Sun Jul 12, 2020 9:03 am    Post subject:

trmiv wrote:
15,300 cases today here in Florida. Unreal.


Who could have seen it coming?

At least Florida doesn’t have a large retirement community that could really be impacted by this.

Sigh.
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PostPosted: Sun Jul 12, 2020 9:19 am    Post subject:

DaMuleRules wrote:
One of the disturbing things about the current state of the pandemic that I have seen discussed here mush is this asinine idea of returning to professional sports.

With maybe the sole exception of golf, where the nature of the sport almost inherently involves social distancing (and to a lesser degree, tennis), the idea of having players return to the fields and courts is asinine and like almost all of the foolish decisions being made the days is purely motivated by the drive to make money. I am aware that professional sports are a business that needs revenue to survive. But to ask athletes (even those that say they want to play) to place their lives in danger (and either stay away from their families or place their families in danger as well) simply to make money is gravely irresponsible.

There isn't a sport that has returned to some degree of resumption or practice where there haven't been infections. And it is preposterous to think there won't be more. And in sports where there is direct body to body contact like football and basketball? There are no precautions in the world that are going to completely prevent some participants from contracting the virus.

I'm a big fan of sports and consuming them is a large part of my life, and we could certainly all use the distraction. But I see no justification for taking risks with people's lives simply for the people's entertainment.


I don’t worry about the NBA in the bubble. I think we’ve had companies that are key parts of supply chains successfully make their own bubbles for stretches of this. I think it’s very possible to do this successfully.

What I do worry about is the message people may get from this. If it looks like things are returning to normal ... when really they are not. I fear society getting lazier, more careless, taking less precautions. That worries me.

Maybe the NBA can lead by example and people will want to make the sacrifices needed to get back to normal. But I think we have too many idiots in our country. I am glad the NBA will be using it as a platform for social justice...hopefully it can also be a platform for personal responsibility. They will certainly have everyone’s attention.

We need to start winning this battle instead of getting our asses handed to us.
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PostPosted: Sun Jul 12, 2020 9:34 am    Post subject:

Reality is you can't force people to life like a hermit for more than a couple of months. There is an economic as well as a psychological toll to this. Some things will have eventually return to normal, but with safety measures like social distancing, wearing masks and people disinfecting themselves after going out. Its the people who absolutely refuse to wear a mask just to stick a middle finger to the rest of society which will prolong this crisis.
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PostPosted: Sun Jul 12, 2020 9:40 am    Post subject:

DancingBarry wrote:
DaMuleRules wrote:
One of the disturbing things about the current state of the pandemic that I have seen discussed here mush is this asinine idea of returning to professional sports.

With maybe the sole exception of golf, where the nature of the sport almost inherently involves social distancing (and to a lesser degree, tennis), the idea of having players return to the fields and courts is asinine and like almost all of the foolish decisions being made the days is purely motivated by the drive to make money. I am aware that professional sports are a business that needs revenue to survive. But to ask athletes (even those that say they want to play) to place their lives in danger (and either stay away from their families or place their families in danger as well) simply to make money is gravely irresponsible.

There isn't a sport that has returned to some degree of resumption or practice where there haven't been infections. And it is preposterous to think there won't be more. And in sports where there is direct body to body contact like football and basketball? There are no precautions in the world that are going to completely prevent some participants from contracting the virus.

I'm a big fan of sports and consuming them is a large part of my life, and we could certainly all use the distraction. But I see no justification for taking risks with people's lives simply for the people's entertainment.


I don’t worry about the NBA in the bubble. I think we’ve had companies that are key parts of supply chains successfully make their own bubbles for stretches of this. I think it’s very possible to do this successfully.

What I do worry about is the message people may get from this. If it looks like things are returning to normal ... when really they are not. I fear society getting lazier, more careless, taking less precautions. That worries me.

Maybe the NBA can lead by example and people will want to make the sacrifices needed to get back to normal. But I think we have too many idiots in our country. I am glad the NBA will be using it as a platform for social justice...hopefully it can also be a platform for personal responsibility. They will certainly have everyone’s attention.

We need to start winning this battle instead of getting our asses handed to us.


Yes, for essential services. And even then, there have been people infected.

Professional sports, which serve only as a diversion for a portion of the populace, is not an essential service by any stretch of the imagination.

You are correct about the fears of a "mixed message", and that's the point. But I don't see putting a bunch of players in harm's way, not practicing social distancing for the sake of a game (and let's be real, income for billionaires and revenue for corporations) as being an appropriate of effective platform for personal responsibility.

As for the NBA's push for social justice, that's a message that can be delivered without returning to a game and defying the logic of the things we should be doing right now. I certainly don't see it as a component to effectively stopping the ass beating we are taking from the pandemic.

Let's look at it this way. Does anyone think it is a good idea for people to congregate at their local parks for games of pickup basketball - people doing the opposite of social distancing, without masks? I mean, after all, they are doing it without an audience of fans.
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PostPosted: Sun Jul 12, 2020 9:51 am    Post subject:

lakersken80 wrote:
Reality is you can't force people to life like a hermit for more than a couple of months. There is an economic as well as a psychological toll to this. Some things will have eventually return to normal, but with safety measures like social distancing, wearing masks and people disinfecting themselves after going out. Its the people who absolutely refuse to wear a mask just to stick a middle finger to the rest of society which will prolong this crisis.


Providing the resumption of sports on TV that doesn't observe social distancing and the wearing of masks is not even remotely necessary to that aim.
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And everything you built that’s all for show
goes up in flames
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ChefLinda
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PostPosted: Sun Jul 12, 2020 9:55 am    Post subject:

lakersken80 wrote:
Reality is you can't force people to life like a hermit for more than a couple of months. There is an economic as well as a psychological toll to this. Some things will have eventually return to normal, but with safety measures like social distancing, wearing masks and people disinfecting themselves after going out. Its the people who absolutely refuse to wear a mask just to stick a middle finger to the rest of society which will prolong this crisis.


This was not inevitable due to some unique character flaws in Americans. This didn't happen in most other countries because their political leadership addressed the crisis with science and proven techniques for tracking and containing a virus. Our politicians failed us by ignoring science, setting bad examples, failing to provide a centralized federal response and supply chains and substituting political "news" conferences for CDC-lead information and guideline conferences.

If this had been done in the beginning and we bought time with the initial lock-down, things would have been very different. It's easy to blame people for not wearing masks and not being educated (and I do), but the primary reason they are acting out is that the Republican president and his entire administration and a good number of Republican governors FAILED to take this seriously, disseminated false information, refused to take active measures to test contain and track the virus and institute clear public guidelines, and their supporters believed them and followed suit.

We still need to do all of these things. Unfortunately it's been left to the states to recreate 50 separate sets of responses. But our state borders are permeable so until the federal government gets it's act together (which probably won't happen until Biden is sworn in) we are in for more of the same -- some states doing better, some states spiking, then another cycle of partial shutdowns, partial re-openings, wash rinse repeat until there is a vaccine.
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PostPosted: Sun Jul 12, 2020 10:12 am    Post subject:

DaMuleRules wrote:
lakersken80 wrote:
Reality is you can't force people to life like a hermit for more than a couple of months. There is an economic as well as a psychological toll to this. Some things will have eventually return to normal, but with safety measures like social distancing, wearing masks and people disinfecting themselves after going out. Its the people who absolutely refuse to wear a mask just to stick a middle finger to the rest of society which will prolong this crisis.


Providing the resumption of sports on TV that doesn't observe social distancing and the wearing of masks is not even remotely necessary to that aim.


Theres numerous sports that are resuming their seasons already (mind you with coronavirus controls such as no crowds, not letting anyone on the property without masks)... of course those are sports in which it is easier to social distance and enact safety measures (motorsports, golf). Some other sports like UFC are much easier to isolate (2 competitors in a match, much smaller population that team sports). Its team sports with closer contact which will be harder to control, think football (pro and college), basketball.
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PostPosted: Sun Jul 12, 2020 10:19 am    Post subject:

ChefLinda wrote:
lakersken80 wrote:
Reality is you can't force people to life like a hermit for more than a couple of months. There is an economic as well as a psychological toll to this. Some things will have eventually return to normal, but with safety measures like social distancing, wearing masks and people disinfecting themselves after going out. Its the people who absolutely refuse to wear a mask just to stick a middle finger to the rest of society which will prolong this crisis.


This was not inevitable due to some unique character flaws in Americans. This didn't happen in most other countries because their political leadership addressed the crisis with science and proven techniques for tracking and containing a virus. Our politicians failed us by ignoring science, setting bad examples, failing to provide a centralized federal response and supply chains and substituting political "news" conferences for CDC-lead information and guideline conferences.

If this had been done in the beginning and we bought time with the initial lock-down, things would have been very different. It's easy to blame people for not wearing masks and not being educated (and I do), but the primary reason they are acting out is that the Republican president and his entire administration and a good number of Republican governors FAILED to take this seriously, disseminated false information, refused to take active measures to test contain and track the virus and institute clear public guidelines, and their supporters believed them and followed suit.

We still need to do all of these things. Unfortunately it's been left to the states to recreate 50 separate sets of responses. But our state borders are permeable so until the federal government gets it's act together (which probably won't happen until Biden is sworn in) we are in for more of the same -- some states doing better, some states spiking, then another cycle of partial shutdowns, partial re-openings, wash rinse repeat until there is a vaccine.


NY is the epicenter of the coronavirus crisis in the USA, and the reason they were was because the NYC mayor and NY governor waited too long to enact a lockdown. California is seeing a spike in cases and is now #2 on the list. So its easy to blame it all on one side, but reality is people are flaunting or downright ignoring the virus. Here in socal we've seen people out and about going to beaches and social gatherings (there was an example of a guy who went to a bbq and died because he didn't a mask)

https://www.pe.com/2020/07/07/lake-elsinore-man-killed-by-coronavirus-after-party-warned-others-in-final-facebook-post/
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PostPosted: Sun Jul 12, 2020 10:29 am    Post subject:

lakersken80 wrote:
ChefLinda wrote:
lakersken80 wrote:
Reality is you can't force people to life like a hermit for more than a couple of months. There is an economic as well as a psychological toll to this. Some things will have eventually return to normal, but with safety measures like social distancing, wearing masks and people disinfecting themselves after going out. Its the people who absolutely refuse to wear a mask just to stick a middle finger to the rest of society which will prolong this crisis.


This was not inevitable due to some unique character flaws in Americans. This didn't happen in most other countries because their political leadership addressed the crisis with science and proven techniques for tracking and containing a virus. Our politicians failed us by ignoring science, setting bad examples, failing to provide a centralized federal response and supply chains and substituting political "news" conferences for CDC-lead information and guideline conferences.

If this had been done in the beginning and we bought time with the initial lock-down, things would have been very different. It's easy to blame people for not wearing masks and not being educated (and I do), but the primary reason they are acting out is that the Republican president and his entire administration and a good number of Republican governors FAILED to take this seriously, disseminated false information, refused to take active measures to test contain and track the virus and institute clear public guidelines, and their supporters believed them and followed suit.

We still need to do all of these things. Unfortunately it's been left to the states to recreate 50 separate sets of responses. But our state borders are permeable so until the federal government gets it's act together (which probably won't happen until Biden is sworn in) we are in for more of the same -- some states doing better, some states spiking, then another cycle of partial shutdowns, partial re-openings, wash rinse repeat until there is a vaccine.


NY is the epicenter of the coronavirus crisis in the USA, and the reason they were was because the NYC mayor and NY governor waited too long to enact a lockdown. California is seeing a spike in cases and is now #2 on the list. So its easy to blame it all on one side, but reality is people are flaunting or downright ignoring the virus. Here in socal we've seen people out and about going to beaches and social gatherings (there was an example of a guy who went to a bbq and died because he didn't a mask)

https://www.pe.com/2020/07/07/lake-elsinore-man-killed-by-coronavirus-after-party-warned-others-in-final-facebook-post/


The Northeast was among the first to spike and we had no info, no PPE, no testing ability, no guidance and no federal help (NY, MA, Conn, NJ). But now it's under control because we learned. Other states could have learned from us. California was okay in the beginning but I don't know why they spiked back up.

The current horrendous spikes (with the exception of California) are run by Republican governors. They had several months head start to learn what worked and they didn't do it. Fact.

I am in no way defending stupid people doing dangerous things. I'm saying the bulk of the blame for thousands and thousands of uneeeded deaths falls on the politicians, mostly Republican.
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PostPosted: Sun Jul 12, 2020 10:37 am    Post subject:

lakersken80 wrote:
DaMuleRules wrote:
lakersken80 wrote:
Reality is you can't force people to life like a hermit for more than a couple of months. There is an economic as well as a psychological toll to this. Some things will have eventually return to normal, but with safety measures like social distancing, wearing masks and people disinfecting themselves after going out. Its the people who absolutely refuse to wear a mask just to stick a middle finger to the rest of society which will prolong this crisis.


Providing the resumption of sports on TV that doesn't observe social distancing and the wearing of masks is not even remotely necessary to that aim.


Theres numerous sports that are resuming their seasons already (mind you with coronavirus controls such as no crowds, not letting anyone on the property without masks)... of course those are sports in which it is easier to social distance and enact safety measures (motorsports, golf). Some other sports like UFC are much easier to isolate (2 competitors in a match, much smaller population that team sports). Its team sports with closer contact which will be harder to control, think football (pro and college), basketball.


Yes . . . as I said in my original post on this subject.
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You thought God was an architect, now you know
He’s something like a pipe bomb ready to blow
And everything you built that’s all for show
goes up in flames
In 24 frames


Jason Isbell

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PostPosted: Sun Jul 12, 2020 10:40 am    Post subject:

ChefLinda wrote:
lakersken80 wrote:
ChefLinda wrote:
lakersken80 wrote:
Reality is you can't force people to life like a hermit for more than a couple of months. There is an economic as well as a psychological toll to this. Some things will have eventually return to normal, but with safety measures like social distancing, wearing masks and people disinfecting themselves after going out. Its the people who absolutely refuse to wear a mask just to stick a middle finger to the rest of society which will prolong this crisis.


This was not inevitable due to some unique character flaws in Americans. This didn't happen in most other countries because their political leadership addressed the crisis with science and proven techniques for tracking and containing a virus. Our politicians failed us by ignoring science, setting bad examples, failing to provide a centralized federal response and supply chains and substituting political "news" conferences for CDC-lead information and guideline conferences.

If this had been done in the beginning and we bought time with the initial lock-down, things would have been very different. It's easy to blame people for not wearing masks and not being educated (and I do), but the primary reason they are acting out is that the Republican president and his entire administration and a good number of Republican governors FAILED to take this seriously, disseminated false information, refused to take active measures to test contain and track the virus and institute clear public guidelines, and their supporters believed them and followed suit.

We still need to do all of these things. Unfortunately it's been left to the states to recreate 50 separate sets of responses. But our state borders are permeable so until the federal government gets it's act together (which probably won't happen until Biden is sworn in) we are in for more of the same -- some states doing better, some states spiking, then another cycle of partial shutdowns, partial re-openings, wash rinse repeat until there is a vaccine.


NY is the epicenter of the coronavirus crisis in the USA, and the reason they were was because the NYC mayor and NY governor waited too long to enact a lockdown. California is seeing a spike in cases and is now #2 on the list. So its easy to blame it all on one side, but reality is people are flaunting or downright ignoring the virus. Here in socal we've seen people out and about going to beaches and social gatherings (there was an example of a guy who went to a bbq and died because he didn't a mask)

https://www.pe.com/2020/07/07/lake-elsinore-man-killed-by-coronavirus-after-party-warned-others-in-final-facebook-post/


The Northeast was among the first to spike and we had no info, no PPE, no testing ability, no guidance and no federal help (NY, MA, Conn, NJ). But now it's under control because we learned. Other states could have learned from us. California was okay in the beginning but I don't know why they spiked back up.

The current horrendous spikes (with the exception of California) are run by Republican governors. They had several months head start to learn what worked and they didn't do it. Fact.

I am in no way defending stupid people doing dangerous things. I'm saying the bulk of the blame for thousands and thousands of uneeeded deaths falls on the politicians, mostly Republican.


The NY area got hit hard because the governor told people to go about their daily lives and didn't lock down until March 20th. California had gotten a hold of the virus and was down to 7th or 8th on the list of states with cases until recently when they spiked to #2. Even though the governor and mayors did a relatively good job, people got restless and started go to out and ignore recommendations. We saw crowded beaches, people marching, people going to parties and social gatherings all of which have consequences if people are not wearing masks.


Last edited by lakersken80 on Sun Jul 12, 2020 10:44 am; edited 1 time in total
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PostPosted: Sun Jul 12, 2020 10:43 am    Post subject:

ChefLinda wrote:
lakersken80 wrote:
Reality is you can't force people to life like a hermit for more than a couple of months. There is an economic as well as a psychological toll to this. Some things will have eventually return to normal, but with safety measures like social distancing, wearing masks and people disinfecting themselves after going out. Its the people who absolutely refuse to wear a mask just to stick a middle finger to the rest of society which will prolong this crisis.


This was not inevitable due to some unique character flaws in Americans. This didn't happen in most other countries because their political leadership addressed the crisis with science and proven techniques for tracking and containing a virus. Our politicians failed us by ignoring science, setting bad examples, failing to provide a centralized federal response and supply chains and substituting political "news" conferences for CDC-lead information and guideline conferences.

If this had been done in the beginning and we bought time with the initial lock-down, things would have been very different. It's easy to blame people for not wearing masks and not being educated (and I do), but the primary reason they are acting out is that the Republican president and his entire administration and a good number of Republican governors FAILED to take this seriously, disseminated false information, refused to take active measures to test contain and track the virus and institute clear public guidelines, and their supporters believed them and followed suit.

We still need to do all of these things. Unfortunately it's been left to the states to recreate 50 separate sets of responses. But our state borders are permeable so until the federal government gets it's act together (which probably won't happen until Biden is sworn in) we are in for more of the same -- some states doing better, some states spiking, then another cycle of partial shutdowns, partial re-openings, wash rinse repeat until there is a vaccine.


Bingo!

The whole "well, you can only expect people to shelter at home and engage in social distancing for so long . . ." argument is ridiculous. It's like saying, "Sometime you gotta leave your toddler unattended, and they're likely to do something dangerous when you do because they don't know better. So you really just gotta give in and let junior stick that fork in the light socket eventually".

No . . . you prevent the child from putting themselves at risk while teaching them about things they should and shouldn't be doing. And in regards to adults dealing with Stay at Home requirements, you do the same thing. What you don't do is put society at risk because a portion of the population doesn't get it or doesn't care to.
_________________
You thought God was an architect, now you know
He’s something like a pipe bomb ready to blow
And everything you built that’s all for show
goes up in flames
In 24 frames


Jason Isbell

Man, do those lyrics resonate right now
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DaMuleRules
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PostPosted: Sun Jul 12, 2020 10:50 am    Post subject:

And another one bites the dust . . .

'I thought this was a hoax': Patient, 30, dies after attending 'COVID party,' doctor says
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You thought God was an architect, now you know
He’s something like a pipe bomb ready to blow
And everything you built that’s all for show
goes up in flames
In 24 frames


Jason Isbell

Man, do those lyrics resonate right now
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PostPosted: Sun Jul 12, 2020 10:52 am    Post subject:

I did this for my own curiosity but thought I share. The problem areas become obvious.

Deaths per Million

Code:
 89   Alameda County   
  0   Alpine County   
  0   Amador County   
 17   Butte County   
  0   Calaveras County   
  0   Colusa County   
 77   Contra Costa County   
  0   Del Norte County   
  0   El Dorado County   
 88   Fresno County   
  0   Glenn County   
 29   Humboldt County   
742   Imperial County   
 56   Inyo County   
108   Kern County   
258   Kings County   
 16   Lake County   
  0   Lassen County   
375   Los Angeles County   
 51   Madera County   
116   Marin County   
 57   Mariposa County   
  0   Mendocino County   
 44   Merced County   
  0   Modoc County   
 70   Mono County   
 41   Monterey County   
 29   Napa County   
 10   Nevada County   
132   Orange County   
 28   Placer County   
  0   Plumas County   
219   Riverside County   
 53   Sacramento County   
 33   San Benito County   
140   San Bernardino County   
126   San Diego County   
 57   San Francisco County   
 90   San Joaquin County   
 14   San Luis Obispo County   
146   San Mateo County   
 69   Santa Barbara County   
 86   Santa Clara County   
 11   Santa Cruz County   
 33   Shasta County   
  0   Sierra County   
  0   Siskiyou County   
 63   Solano County   
 28   Sonoma County   
 93   Stanislaus County   
 41   Sutter County   
 16   Tehama County   
  0   Trinity County   
326   Tulare County   
  0   Tuolumne County   
 62   Ventura County   
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lakersken80
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PostPosted: Sun Jul 12, 2020 10:52 am    Post subject:

DaMuleRules wrote:
ChefLinda wrote:
lakersken80 wrote:
Reality is you can't force people to life like a hermit for more than a couple of months. There is an economic as well as a psychological toll to this. Some things will have eventually return to normal, but with safety measures like social distancing, wearing masks and people disinfecting themselves after going out. Its the people who absolutely refuse to wear a mask just to stick a middle finger to the rest of society which will prolong this crisis.


This was not inevitable due to some unique character flaws in Americans. This didn't happen in most other countries because their political leadership addressed the crisis with science and proven techniques for tracking and containing a virus. Our politicians failed us by ignoring science, setting bad examples, failing to provide a centralized federal response and supply chains and substituting political "news" conferences for CDC-lead information and guideline conferences.

If this had been done in the beginning and we bought time with the initial lock-down, things would have been very different. It's easy to blame people for not wearing masks and not being educated (and I do), but the primary reason they are acting out is that the Republican president and his entire administration and a good number of Republican governors FAILED to take this seriously, disseminated false information, refused to take active measures to test contain and track the virus and institute clear public guidelines, and their supporters believed them and followed suit.

We still need to do all of these things. Unfortunately it's been left to the states to recreate 50 separate sets of responses. But our state borders are permeable so until the federal government gets it's act together (which probably won't happen until Biden is sworn in) we are in for more of the same -- some states doing better, some states spiking, then another cycle of partial shutdowns, partial re-openings, wash rinse repeat until there is a vaccine.


Bingo!

The whole "well, you can only expect people to shelter at home and engage in social distancing for so long . . ." argument is ridiculous. It's like saying, "Sometime you gotta leave your toddler unattended, and they're likely to do something dangerous when you do because they don't know better. So you really just gotta give in and let junior stick that fork in the light socket eventually".

No . . . you prevent the child from putting themselves at risk while teaching them about things they should and shouldn't be doing. And in regards to adults dealing with Stay at Home requirements, you do the same thing. What you don't do is put society at risk because a portion of the population doesn't get it or doesn't care to.


It isn't ridiculous because we seeing it right now. People are flaunting those orders because they are relatively toothless. You can shut down the gathering places but people are still going out and about. Short of declaring martial law and rounding up violators if a large segment of the population downright ignores your orders, it will not work.
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ChefLinda
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PostPosted: Sun Jul 12, 2020 10:58 am    Post subject:

lakersken80 wrote:
ChefLinda wrote:
lakersken80 wrote:
ChefLinda wrote:
lakersken80 wrote:
Reality is you can't force people to life like a hermit for more than a couple of months. There is an economic as well as a psychological toll to this. Some things will have eventually return to normal, but with safety measures like social distancing, wearing masks and people disinfecting themselves after going out. Its the people who absolutely refuse to wear a mask just to stick a middle finger to the rest of society which will prolong this crisis.


This was not inevitable due to some unique character flaws in Americans. This didn't happen in most other countries because their political leadership addressed the crisis with science and proven techniques for tracking and containing a virus. Our politicians failed us by ignoring science, setting bad examples, failing to provide a centralized federal response and supply chains and substituting political "news" conferences for CDC-lead information and guideline conferences.

If this had been done in the beginning and we bought time with the initial lock-down, things would have been very different. It's easy to blame people for not wearing masks and not being educated (and I do), but the primary reason they are acting out is that the Republican president and his entire administration and a good number of Republican governors FAILED to take this seriously, disseminated false information, refused to take active measures to test contain and track the virus and institute clear public guidelines, and their supporters believed them and followed suit.

We still need to do all of these things. Unfortunately it's been left to the states to recreate 50 separate sets of responses. But our state borders are permeable so until the federal government gets it's act together (which probably won't happen until Biden is sworn in) we are in for more of the same -- some states doing better, some states spiking, then another cycle of partial shutdowns, partial re-openings, wash rinse repeat until there is a vaccine.


NY is the epicenter of the coronavirus crisis in the USA, and the reason they were was because the NYC mayor and NY governor waited too long to enact a lockdown. California is seeing a spike in cases and is now #2 on the list. So its easy to blame it all on one side, but reality is people are flaunting or downright ignoring the virus. Here in socal we've seen people out and about going to beaches and social gatherings (there was an example of a guy who went to a bbq and died because he didn't a mask)

https://www.pe.com/2020/07/07/lake-elsinore-man-killed-by-coronavirus-after-party-warned-others-in-final-facebook-post/


The Northeast was among the first to spike and we had no info, no PPE, no testing ability, no guidance and no federal help (NY, MA, Conn, NJ). But now it's under control because we learned. Other states could have learned from us. California was okay in the beginning but I don't know why they spiked back up.

The current horrendous spikes (with the exception of California) are run by Republican governors. They had several months head start to learn what worked and they didn't do it. Fact.

I am in no way defending stupid people doing dangerous things. I'm saying the bulk of the blame for thousands and thousands of uneeeded deaths falls on the politicians, mostly Republican.


The NY area got hit hard because the governor told people to go about their daily lives and didn't lock down until March 20th. California had gotten a hold of the virus and was down to 7th or 8th on the list of states with cases until recently when they spiked to #2. Even though the governor and mayors did a relatively good job, people got restless and started go to out and ignore recommendations. We saw crowded beaches, people marching, people going to parties and social gatherings all of which have consequences if people are not wearing masks.


Because the Federal government was giving us no guidance and governors were learning on the fly with no testing ability and no PPE. Now it's July. What excuses do the governors in Florida, Texas and Arizona have? We eventually learned and got things under control. Red State governors have had 4 extra months to learn what to do and not to do. And they are still doing the wrong thing.
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ribeye
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PostPosted: Sun Jul 12, 2020 10:59 am    Post subject:

DaMuleRules wrote:
ChefLinda wrote:
lakersken80 wrote:
Reality is you can't force people to life like a hermit for more than a couple of months. There is an economic as well as a psychological toll to this. Some things will have eventually return to normal, but with safety measures like social distancing, wearing masks and people disinfecting themselves after going out. Its the people who absolutely refuse to wear a mask just to stick a middle finger to the rest of society which will prolong this crisis.


This was not inevitable due to some unique character flaws in Americans. This didn't happen in most other countries because their political leadership addressed the crisis with science and proven techniques for tracking and containing a virus. Our politicians failed us by ignoring science, setting bad examples, failing to provide a centralized federal response and supply chains and substituting political "news" conferences for CDC-lead information and guideline conferences.

If this had been done in the beginning and we bought time with the initial lock-down, things would have been very different. It's easy to blame people for not wearing masks and not being educated (and I do), but the primary reason they are acting out is that the Republican president and his entire administration and a good number of Republican governors FAILED to take this seriously, disseminated false information, refused to take active measures to test contain and track the virus and institute clear public guidelines, and their supporters believed them and followed suit.

We still need to do all of these things. Unfortunately it's been left to the states to recreate 50 separate sets of responses. But our state borders are permeable so until the federal government gets it's act together (which probably won't happen until Biden is sworn in) we are in for more of the same -- some states doing better, some states spiking, then another cycle of partial shutdowns, partial re-openings, wash rinse repeat until there is a vaccine.


Bingo!

The whole "well, you can only expect people to shelter at home and engage in social distancing for so long . . ." argument is ridiculous. It's like saying, "Sometime you gotta leave your toddler unattended, and they're likely to do something dangerous when you do because they don't know better. So you really just gotta give in and let junior stick that fork in the light socket eventually".

No . . . you prevent the child from putting themselves at risk while teaching them about things they should and shouldn't be doing. And in regards to adults dealing with Stay at Home requirements, you do the same thing. What you don't do is put society at risk because a portion of the population doesn't get it or doesn't care to.


This country is not made of the same stuff that made up the WWII generation. We have to stay home with our internet and 3 jagillion network providers. They enlisted, died or saw their friends die, and those who stayed home rationed food and other items and went to work supporting our nation's heroes.

We're simply softer than the mush that sits inside Trump's head.
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Last edited by ribeye on Sun Jul 12, 2020 11:01 am; edited 1 time in total
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FernieBee
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PostPosted: Sun Jul 12, 2020 11:00 am    Post subject:

ChefLinda wrote:
Red State governors have had 4 extra months to learn what to do and not to do. And they are still doing the wrong thing.


Their motivations were keeping in step with Trump's desires and the almighty dollar.
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lakersken80
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PostPosted: Sun Jul 12, 2020 11:04 am    Post subject:

ChefLinda wrote:
lakersken80 wrote:
ChefLinda wrote:
lakersken80 wrote:
ChefLinda wrote:
lakersken80 wrote:
Reality is you can't force people to life like a hermit for more than a couple of months. There is an economic as well as a psychological toll to this. Some things will have eventually return to normal, but with safety measures like social distancing, wearing masks and people disinfecting themselves after going out. Its the people who absolutely refuse to wear a mask just to stick a middle finger to the rest of society which will prolong this crisis.


This was not inevitable due to some unique character flaws in Americans. This didn't happen in most other countries because their political leadership addressed the crisis with science and proven techniques for tracking and containing a virus. Our politicians failed us by ignoring science, setting bad examples, failing to provide a centralized federal response and supply chains and substituting political "news" conferences for CDC-lead information and guideline conferences.

If this had been done in the beginning and we bought time with the initial lock-down, things would have been very different. It's easy to blame people for not wearing masks and not being educated (and I do), but the primary reason they are acting out is that the Republican president and his entire administration and a good number of Republican governors FAILED to take this seriously, disseminated false information, refused to take active measures to test contain and track the virus and institute clear public guidelines, and their supporters believed them and followed suit.

We still need to do all of these things. Unfortunately it's been left to the states to recreate 50 separate sets of responses. But our state borders are permeable so until the federal government gets it's act together (which probably won't happen until Biden is sworn in) we are in for more of the same -- some states doing better, some states spiking, then another cycle of partial shutdowns, partial re-openings, wash rinse repeat until there is a vaccine.


NY is the epicenter of the coronavirus crisis in the USA, and the reason they were was because the NYC mayor and NY governor waited too long to enact a lockdown. California is seeing a spike in cases and is now #2 on the list. So its easy to blame it all on one side, but reality is people are flaunting or downright ignoring the virus. Here in socal we've seen people out and about going to beaches and social gatherings (there was an example of a guy who went to a bbq and died because he didn't a mask)

https://www.pe.com/2020/07/07/lake-elsinore-man-killed-by-coronavirus-after-party-warned-others-in-final-facebook-post/


The Northeast was among the first to spike and we had no info, no PPE, no testing ability, no guidance and no federal help (NY, MA, Conn, NJ). But now it's under control because we learned. Other states could have learned from us. California was okay in the beginning but I don't know why they spiked back up.

The current horrendous spikes (with the exception of California) are run by Republican governors. They had several months head start to learn what worked and they didn't do it. Fact.

I am in no way defending stupid people doing dangerous things. I'm saying the bulk of the blame for thousands and thousands of uneeeded deaths falls on the politicians, mostly Republican.


The NY area got hit hard because the governor told people to go about their daily lives and didn't lock down until March 20th. California had gotten a hold of the virus and was down to 7th or 8th on the list of states with cases until recently when they spiked to #2. Even though the governor and mayors did a relatively good job, people got restless and started go to out and ignore recommendations. We saw crowded beaches, people marching, people going to parties and social gatherings all of which have consequences if people are not wearing masks.


Because the Federal government was giving us no guidance and governors were learning on the fly with no testing ability and no PPE. Now it's July. What excuses do the governors in Florida, Texas and Arizona have? We eventually learned and got things under control. Red State governors have had 4 extra months to learn what to do and not to do. And they are still doing the wrong thing.


You don't need PPE or testing to shutdown. The delay of a state shutdown was due to the governor. Don't get me wrong, the federal government screwed up badly as well. Making the states fight for medical equipment, sending mixed messages or downright ignoring the crisis which has only gotten worse (if it was taken seriously, the economy would be better shape and the deaths would be down, which ironically would benefit the current administrations re-election chances).
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ChefLinda
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PostPosted: Sun Jul 12, 2020 11:09 am    Post subject:

lakersken80 wrote:
DaMuleRules wrote:
ChefLinda wrote:
lakersken80 wrote:
Reality is you can't force people to life like a hermit for more than a couple of months. There is an economic as well as a psychological toll to this. Some things will have eventually return to normal, but with safety measures like social distancing, wearing masks and people disinfecting themselves after going out. Its the people who absolutely refuse to wear a mask just to stick a middle finger to the rest of society which will prolong this crisis.


This was not inevitable due to some unique character flaws in Americans. This didn't happen in most other countries because their political leadership addressed the crisis with science and proven techniques for tracking and containing a virus. Our politicians failed us by ignoring science, setting bad examples, failing to provide a centralized federal response and supply chains and substituting political "news" conferences for CDC-lead information and guideline conferences.

If this had been done in the beginning and we bought time with the initial lock-down, things would have been very different. It's easy to blame people for not wearing masks and not being educated (and I do), but the primary reason they are acting out is that the Republican president and his entire administration and a good number of Republican governors FAILED to take this seriously, disseminated false information, refused to take active measures to test contain and track the virus and institute clear public guidelines, and their supporters believed them and followed suit.

We still need to do all of these things. Unfortunately it's been left to the states to recreate 50 separate sets of responses. But our state borders are permeable so until the federal government gets it's act together (which probably won't happen until Biden is sworn in) we are in for more of the same -- some states doing better, some states spiking, then another cycle of partial shutdowns, partial re-openings, wash rinse repeat until there is a vaccine.


Bingo!

The whole "well, you can only expect people to shelter at home and engage in social distancing for so long . . ." argument is ridiculous. It's like saying, "Sometime you gotta leave your toddler unattended, and they're likely to do something dangerous when you do because they don't know better. So you really just gotta give in and let junior stick that fork in the light socket eventually".

No . . . you prevent the child from putting themselves at risk while teaching them about things they should and shouldn't be doing. And in regards to adults dealing with Stay at Home requirements, you do the same thing. What you don't do is put society at risk because a portion of the population doesn't get it or doesn't care to.


It isn't ridiculous because we seeing it right now. People are flaunting those orders because they are relatively toothless. You can shut down the gathering places but people are still going out and about. Short of declaring martial law and rounding up violators if a large segment of the population downright ignores your orders, it will not work.


Here in Massachusetts masks have been mandatory since April. Everyone wears a mask. Businesses will not let you enter without a mask. There are signs for social distancing with 6-feet marked off literally everywhere you go. People will follow when you give them clear guidance and make it mandatory, and government works with businesses to make sure everyone is on the same page. Do you think the people in the Boston area have some superior gene that cause them to obey the rules where people in other states don't? No, it's because our political leaders, business community, hospitals, medical professionals all got together, decided what to do, educated the public, then put the rules in place. Even runners and cyclists wear masks. Because they were told to. We get emails every single day with information, statistics and guidance. They keep us informed. We have free testing and an army of contact tracers. There is a way to combat the virus that works. If Red State governors refuse to implement, that's on them. No individual citizen can compel others to wear masks or social distance, etc. Each person can make a decision (good or bad) for themselves, but only the government can coordinate a plan for the ENTIRE community. That's why the fault lies with them. Do I feel sorry for the idiots who go into big crowds with out a mask then get sick? No, not really. But that's not the point.
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ChefLinda
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PostPosted: Sun Jul 12, 2020 11:12 am    Post subject:

lakersken80 wrote:


You don't need PPE or testing to shutdown. The delay of a state shutdown was due to the governor. Don't get me wrong, the federal government screwed up badly as well. Making the states fight for medical equipment, sending mixed messages or downright ignoring the crisis which has only gotten worse (if it was taken seriously, the economy would be better shape and the deaths would be down, which ironically would benefit the current administrations re-election chances).


You're just playing contrarian now for the sake of playing contrarian. You need all those things in combination with shutdowns. Early states made mistakes but they learned from their mistakes and adjusted their policy accordingly. Florida, Texas, Arizona and other red states now spiking have no such excuse.
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