The first of four experimental COVID-19 vaccines being tested by Pfizer and its German partner BioNTech showed encouraging results in very early testing of 45 people, the companies said Wednesday.
Study volunteers given either a low or medium dose, in two shots about a month apart, had immune responses in the range expected to be protective, when compared to some COVID-19 survivors, according to the preliminary results.
So is this enough to end the whole pandemic soon then? _________________ Damian Lillard shatters Dwight Coward's championship dreams:
The first of four experimental COVID-19 vaccines being tested by Pfizer and its German partner BioNTech showed encouraging results in very early testing of 45 people, the companies said Wednesday.
Study volunteers given either a low or medium dose, in two shots about a month apart, had immune responses in the range expected to be protective, when compared to some COVID-19 survivors, according to the preliminary results.
So is this enough to end the whole pandemic soon then?
Definitely within a couple of years...provided that the million steps between now and a mass produced product go off without a hitch.
The first of four experimental COVID-19 vaccines being tested by Pfizer and its German partner BioNTech showed encouraging results in very early testing of 45 people, the companies said Wednesday.
Study volunteers given either a low or medium dose, in two shots about a month apart, had immune responses in the range expected to be protective, when compared to some COVID-19 survivors, according to the preliminary results.
So is this enough to end the whole pandemic soon then?
No. These are experimental drugs. They go through about 4 stages. Fauci said about 18 months. Off the top of my head I think it took about 4 years to perfect a measles vaccine. _________________ Be who you are and say what you feel because those who mind don't matter and those who matter don't mind.
America will never be destroyed from the outside. If we falter and lose our freedoms, it will be because we destroyed ourselves.
Last edited by jodeke on Mon Jul 06, 2020 6:10 am; edited 1 time in total
The first of four experimental COVID-19 vaccines being tested by Pfizer and its German partner BioNTech showed encouraging results in very early testing of 45 people, the companies said Wednesday.
Study volunteers given either a low or medium dose, in two shots about a month apart, had immune responses in the range expected to be protective, when compared to some COVID-19 survivors, according to the preliminary results.
So is this enough to end the whole pandemic soon then?
Definitely within a couple of years...provided that the million steps between now and a mass produced product go off without a hitch.
So is it too optimistic to think things will be back to normal by Jan. 2021?... _________________ Damian Lillard shatters Dwight Coward's championship dreams:
"We are still knee-deep in the first wave of this," Dr. Anthony Fauci, director of the National Institute of Allergy and Infectious Diseases, said in a Facebook and Twitter livestream Monday. "I would say, this would not be considered a wave. It was a surge, or a resurgence of infections superimposed upon a baseline ... that really never got down to where we wanted to go."
Quote:
"We are in free fall," said Dr. Rochelle Walensky, chief of infectious diseases at Massachusetts General Hospital.
_________________ Be who you are and say what you feel because those who mind don't matter and those who matter don't mind.
America will never be destroyed from the outside. If we falter and lose our freedoms, it will be because we destroyed ourselves.
The first of four experimental COVID-19 vaccines being tested by Pfizer and its German partner BioNTech showed encouraging results in very early testing of 45 people, the companies said Wednesday.
Study volunteers given either a low or medium dose, in two shots about a month apart, had immune responses in the range expected to be protective, when compared to some COVID-19 survivors, according to the preliminary results.
So is this enough to end the whole pandemic soon then?
Definitely within a couple of years...provided that the million steps between now and a mass produced product go off without a hitch.
So is it too optimistic to think things will be back to normal by Jan. 2021?...
My hope for that dwindles by the day. _________________ "Dread it, run from it... destiny arrives all the same."
The first of four experimental COVID-19 vaccines being tested by Pfizer and its German partner BioNTech showed encouraging results in very early testing of 45 people, the companies said Wednesday.
Study volunteers given either a low or medium dose, in two shots about a month apart, had immune responses in the range expected to be protective, when compared to some COVID-19 survivors, according to the preliminary results.
So is this enough to end the whole pandemic soon then?
Definitely within a couple of years...provided that the million steps between now and a mass produced product go off without a hitch.
So is it too optimistic to think things will be back to normal by Jan. 2021?...
My hope for that dwindles by the day.
What we call "normal" is on the path to ancient history.
There is no return to our previously held concepts of normalcy.
What we have ahead of us is a redefinition of "normal" . . . and it's still not known what that redefinitions is. The only thing that is certain is that our lives will be significantly altered from here on out in longterm fashion.
How we accept and embrace that reality will be the key to how we come out of this. _________________ You thought God was an architect, now you know
He’s something like a pipe bomb ready to blow
And everything you built that’s all for show
goes up in flames
In 24 frames
The first of four experimental COVID-19 vaccines being tested by Pfizer and its German partner BioNTech showed encouraging results in very early testing of 45 people, the companies said Wednesday.
Study volunteers given either a low or medium dose, in two shots about a month apart, had immune responses in the range expected to be protective, when compared to some COVID-19 survivors, according to the preliminary results.
So is this enough to end the whole pandemic soon then?
Definitely within a couple of years...provided that the million steps between now and a mass produced product go off without a hitch.
So is it too optimistic to think things will be back to normal by Jan. 2021?...
My hope for that dwindles by the day.
What we call "normal" is on the path to ancient history.
There is no return to our previously held concepts of normalcy.
What we have ahead of us is a redefinition of "normal" . . . and it's still not known what that redefinitions is. The only thing that is certain is that our lives will be significantly altered from here on out in longterm fashion.
How we accept and embrace that reality will be the key to how we come out of this.
What makes you say that? Why would things not go back to normal with a vaccine? _________________ Damian Lillard shatters Dwight Coward's championship dreams:
Joined: 25 Apr 2015 Posts: 31904 Location: Anaheim, CA
Posted: Mon Jul 06, 2020 6:50 pm Post subject:
^
Speaking in very general terms, it's unlikely to be completely effective, like the flu vaccine isn't completely effective. But it will help. Anyone with a better background, please correct me if I'm wrong.
The first of four experimental COVID-19 vaccines being tested by Pfizer and its German partner BioNTech showed encouraging results in very early testing of 45 people, the companies said Wednesday.
Study volunteers given either a low or medium dose, in two shots about a month apart, had immune responses in the range expected to be protective, when compared to some COVID-19 survivors, according to the preliminary results.
So is this enough to end the whole pandemic soon then?
Definitely within a couple of years...provided that the million steps between now and a mass produced product go off without a hitch.
So is it too optimistic to think things will be back to normal by Jan. 2021?...
My hope for that dwindles by the day.
What we call "normal" is on the path to ancient history.
There is no return to our previously held concepts of normalcy.
What we have ahead of us is a redefinition of "normal" . . . and it's still not known what that redefinitions is. The only thing that is certain is that our lives will be significantly altered from here on out in longterm fashion.
How we accept and embrace that reality will be the key to how we come out of this.
What makes you say that? Why would things not go back to normal with a vaccine?
Because this is a virus that is exceptionally virulent and is going to transform as viruses do. We don't even remotely have a vaccine yet. Much less one that is effective enough to keep up with how this virus evolves.
Even if here was a path to a vaccine that is effective, our population has proven they won't adapt their lifestyle enough to allow it to become so. _________________ You thought God was an architect, now you know
He’s something like a pipe bomb ready to blow
And everything you built that’s all for show
goes up in flames
In 24 frames
Joined: 15 Sep 2012 Posts: 29257 Location: La La Land
Posted: Mon Jul 06, 2020 6:58 pm Post subject:
CandyCanes wrote:
What makes you say that? Why would things not go back to normal with a vaccine?
ChickenStu wrote:
^
Speaking in very general terms, it's unlikely to be completely effective, like the flu vaccine isn't completely effective. But it will help. Anyone with a better background, please correct me if I'm wrong.
At this point we just don't know. But that is a possibility.
Also, can't forget there is a significant portion of the population who will refuse the COVID vaccine. Just like they refuse current vaccines (MMR, flu, polio, etc). _________________ "Every hurt is a lesson, and every lesson makes you better”
Joined: 24 Dec 2007 Posts: 35809 Location: Santa Clarita, CA (Hell) ->>>>>Ithaca, NY -≥≥≥≥≥Berkeley, CA
Posted: Mon Jul 06, 2020 7:04 pm Post subject:
But didn’t the Pfizer test say that the immune response in the tests were enough to be effective? _________________ Damian Lillard shatters Dwight Coward's championship dreams:
Joined: 25 Apr 2015 Posts: 31904 Location: Anaheim, CA
Posted: Mon Jul 06, 2020 7:12 pm Post subject:
CandyCanes wrote:
But didn’t the Pfizer test say that the immune response in the tests were enough to be effective?
Well, again, I think "effective" is a relative term. Like, the flu vaccine is somewhere between 40-60% effective. Directly from the CDC's website from January 2020...
..."recent studies show that flu vaccination reduces the risk of flu illness by between 40% and 60% among the overall population during seasons when most circulating flu viruses are well-matched to the flu vaccine."
Joined: 10 Dec 2006 Posts: 52648 Location: Making a safety stop at 15 feet.
Posted: Mon Jul 06, 2020 7:14 pm Post subject:
CandyCanes wrote:
But didn’t the Pfizer test say that the immune response in the tests were enough to be effective?
It was a tiny test pool and not even remotely definitive. Even if it were, that's a long way from being ready to distribute it on a basis that is able to offset the infection rate. Especially when much of the population dismisses the risks of the virus in the first place.
We haven't even begun to come to terms with dealing with this pandemic. We will still be having these discussions for another six months at least (if we are lucky). _________________ You thought God was an architect, now you know
He’s something like a pipe bomb ready to blow
And everything you built that’s all for show
goes up in flames
In 24 frames
Joined: 24 Dec 2007 Posts: 35809 Location: Santa Clarita, CA (Hell) ->>>>>Ithaca, NY -≥≥≥≥≥Berkeley, CA
Posted: Mon Jul 06, 2020 7:14 pm Post subject:
ChickenStu wrote:
CandyCanes wrote:
But didn’t the Pfizer test say that the immune response in the tests were enough to be effective?
Well, again, I think "effective" is a relative term. Like, the flu vaccine is somewhere between 40-60% effective. Directly from the CDC's website from January 2020...
..."recent studies show that flu vaccination reduces the risk of flu illness by between 40% and 60% among the overall population during seasons when most circulating flu viruses are well-matched to the flu vaccine."
Wait... I thought flu vaccines were only partially effective encaustic they couldn’t predict the strain. Why are vaccines like polio, measles, and chickenpox completely effective then? _________________ Damian Lillard shatters Dwight Coward's championship dreams:
But didn’t the Pfizer test say that the immune response in the tests were enough to be effective?
Well, again, I think "effective" is a relative term. Like, the flu vaccine is somewhere between 40-60% effective. Directly from the CDC's website from January 2020...
..."recent studies show that flu vaccination reduces the risk of flu illness by between 40% and 60% among the overall population during seasons when most circulating flu viruses are well-matched to the flu vaccine."
Wait... I thought flu vaccines were only partially effective encaustic they couldn’t predict the strain. Why are vaccines like polio, measles, and chickenpox completely effective then?
I would bet the mutations either made the virus impotent or there were only a few strains to deal with
But didn’t the Pfizer test say that the immune response in the tests were enough to be effective?
It was a tiny test pool and not even remotely definitive. Even if it were, that's a long way from being ready to distribute it on a basis that is able to offset the infection rate. Especially when much of the population dismisses the risks of the virus in the first place.
We haven't even begun to come to terms with dealing with this pandemic. We will still be having these discussions for another six months at least (if we are lucky).
The Spanish flu of 1918 eventually went away, and this was with rudimentary knowledge and medical treatment compared to current day. So did SARS and MERS. I'm just curious as to why COVID 19 is so different?
Joined: 17 Nov 2007 Posts: 67574 Location: In a world where admitting to not knowing something is considered a great way to learn.
Posted: Tue Jul 07, 2020 4:39 am Post subject:
Shaolin's Finest wrote:
The Spanish flu of 1918 eventually went away, and this was with rudimentary knowledge and medical treatment compared to current day. So did SARS and MERS. I'm just curious as to why COVID 19 is so different?
One word, TRUMP. _________________ Be who you are and say what you feel because those who mind don't matter and those who matter don't mind.
America will never be destroyed from the outside. If we falter and lose our freedoms, it will be because we destroyed ourselves.
Joined: 19 Nov 2001 Posts: 17657 Location: Orlando
Posted: Tue Jul 07, 2020 5:27 am Post subject:
10,000 cases a day here in Florida and our governor Mini-Trump just wrote an executive order that schools must open next month. We’ve got counties going back into lockdown, yet schools need to re-open? Ridiculous. I’ve got a 2nd grader and my wife is a teacher. I don’t want to send them back into this.
Wait... I thought flu vaccines were only partially effective encaustic they couldn’t predict the strain. Why are vaccines like polio, measles, and chickenpox completely effective then?
Vaccines work in two ways, personal immunity and herd immunity.
Personal immunity means that your immune system is able to fight it off when you do get infected. It's similar to a computer antivirus program (which is how they got their name). If it's updated so it recognizes the strain when it sees it, it can kill it before it digs in and does damage.
The flu is rapidly evolving -- fast enough that the body won't recognize next year's virus from this year's vaccine. Plus vaccines take time to make in sufficient quantities. So they use the southern hemisphere's flu season (their seasons are reversed from ours) to better inform us of what's going to happen in our upcoming flu season (and vice-versa -- ours informs theirs). But because we're hitting a moving target, in some years the southern hemisphere is a better predictor than in other years, so the vaccine's effectiveness varies from year to year.
But this isn't black or white -- it's not all or nothing. Even in "bad" years there's still a conference of some immunity -- enough to slow it down.
This gets into the second concept -- herd immunity. Even in the best years, some people (even vaccinated) will catch the disease. And those who catch it will spread it to others. This is where numbers like R come in (which you probably heard about in reference to COVID-19, if you hadn't seen it already). There are versions R0, Re, Rt, etc., that measure different things, but R is the basic measure of spread. If R is greater than 1, then each person infects more than one other, and the virus proliferates. If it's less then one, then the virus fizzles out over time. So with any virus, the goal is to get R to below 1.
The R depends on the specific bug, and each has a baseline infective rate -- the R0. With COVID, last time I looked it was 3.3, which is scary. Measles is way more scary -- something like 18. To get the actual R below 1, various measures can be used in combination. Isolation, social distancing, masks, etc., etc. all affect R. If EVERYBODY wore masks and observed all of the recommended protocols, the R -would- drop below 1.0, and this would fizzle out on its own fairly quickly. But of course, that isn't happening. And of course, a degree of immunity occurs naturally when people get infected and survive (because they build antibodies). And as susceptible people die, that also lowers the percentage of people who are infectible (this is the Re). A vaccine builds a degree of that immunity without all the inconvenience of getting sick and dying.
So the goal is to vaccinate people. Will everyone take it? No. Will it be 100% effective? No. Will everyone who takes it be able to fight off COVID when they -do- get infected? No. But it will lower the R. Just -how much- it lowers the R remains to be seen, but it will lower it. And if that, in combination with other measures, gets it below the magic 1.0, then COVID will fizzle out.
Wait... I thought flu vaccines were only partially effective encaustic they couldn’t predict the strain. Why are vaccines like polio, measles, and chickenpox completely effective then?
A second answer to this, just to be clear -- those vaccines aren't completely effective either. No vaccine is. But you saw from my last post -- if the combination of factors, including vaccination, scarcity of the disease, isolating people who do get sick, and other factors -- get R below 1.0, then the disease fizzles out. This is why you see measles outbreaks from time to time (especially in populations where vaccine compliance isn't great), but not measles pandemics, despite it having a -huge- R0.
There is also a quirk in the way the math works out (that can be exploited to convey the opposite message). If you find one person who has something like measles, is it more likely that person is vaccinated or unvaccinated? It turns out, just from the math, that it's more likely the person is vaccinated. This is because when compliance is really high, and -- even with a very effective vaccine -- even though a very low percentage of vaccinated people get sick, the number is still higher than the number of unvaccinated people who get sick, simply because the vaccinated population greatly outnumbers the unvaccinated population.
10,000 cases a day here in Florida and our governor Mini-Trump just wrote an executive order that schools must open next month. We’ve got counties going back into lockdown, yet schools need to re-open? Ridiculous. I’ve got a 2nd grader and my wife is a teacher. I don’t want to send them back into this.
I think teachers should strike and refuse to go back under current conditions and parents should support them and refuse to send their children back until a safe plan is in place. I guess that's easier said than done, but I would not send my kid back to school in Florida at this point. The teacher's union needs to act now.
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