Honest discussion about Pit Bull dogs?
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LongBeachPoly
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PostPosted: Thu Jan 09, 2020 5:31 pm    Post subject:

Omar Little wrote:
LongBeachPoly wrote:
Omar Little wrote:
"We can't tolerate this low class and barbaric activity" reads fine. Tagging on, "this isn't Puerto Rico" is pointing out that THEY do. Gratuitously.


Which they (the government) does in another form of animal fighting

But like I said, I don’t want to speak for Adkindo or put words/meanings/interpretations in his mouth.

I can only offer how I interpreted it when I read it initially.


Again, the government wanting to reinstate rooster fighting in Puerto Rico has zero to do with whether pit bulls should be legal, and was extraneous to the argument. Why didn’t he use a place where dog fighting or even rooster fighting IS legal? Because that might be too on the nose? He was clearly slamming PR, and by implication its people (because the government wouldn’t be trying to make it legal again if it wasn’t popular), and doing going out of his way to do so.

When you gratuitously say “this isn’t (insert other place here), we don’t tolerate those low class barbaric (insert activity here)”, you are very much drawing a comparison to them, with them as the very obviously implicit low class barbarians. That I need to keep explaining while you want to not speak for him but do so Post after post is troubling.

I get that you didn’t see anything wrong with it initially, but you say you understand why others do, while continuing to try to find a way to sanitize it. It’s pretty crystal clear what he meant to say, and to imply.


Yeah

I know it triggers people. I get that. I’m not even trying to say people shouldn’t be triggered.

I’m just asking the people who feel triggered to maybe look at it another way and wait to hear Adkindo’s side.

I’m not even saying my interpretation is the right one. I could be way off. My racial insensitivity antenna could be broken.

I could be wrong. I’m just offering a different point of view and maybe try and convince people that are calling him a racist to wait until he responds.

I’m not defending him but more defending his right to explain things (if he ever does).
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PostPosted: Thu Jan 09, 2020 5:35 pm    Post subject:

jodeke wrote:
LongBeachPoly wrote:
jodeke wrote:
LongBeachPoly wrote:
jodeke wrote:
LongBeachPoly wrote:
jodeke wrote:
LongBeachPoly wrote:
jodeke wrote:
Some remarks are racists no matter where the arrow is aimed.


Not if a word is ambiguous and has double/triple meanings.

Puerto Rico refers to the people
Puerto Rico also refers to the government
And Puerto Rico can refer to the US Territory

It’s only racists if you are referring to the people.

In the eyes of the interpreter. We're not discussing a word, we're discussing a phrase.


Which is an easy fix.

Because if Adkindo meant to criticize the government or the territory and not the people, he can just reword it to make it clear and everyone would be happy.

He can reword the phrase to state we shouldn’t be like Puerto Rico (the US territory).

Now the interpreter and the speaker can both agree that it’s not a racist statement.


Key phrase in bold. If not made clear it can be interpreted.


Agreed.

But the actual crime could either be racist intention or just unclearly phrased.

Jodeke says that it’s always a racist comment.

Again according to one's interpretation. Where did I say always?


jodeke wrote:
Some remarks are racists no matter where the arrow is aimed.


No matter what = always

In your mind not mine. But you're entitled to your interpretation. Always is seldom the correct answer.


Yeah no matter what and always are synonymous.

No matter what = no excuses = no exceptions

Which means always
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PostPosted: Thu Jan 09, 2020 5:36 pm    Post subject:

LongBeachPoly wrote:
Omar Little wrote:
LongBeachPoly wrote:
Omar Little wrote:
"We can't tolerate this low class and barbaric activity" reads fine. Tagging on, "this isn't Puerto Rico" is pointing out that THEY do. Gratuitously.


Which they (the government) does in another form of animal fighting

But like I said, I don’t want to speak for Adkindo or put words/meanings/interpretations in his mouth.

I can only offer how I interpreted it when I read it initially.


Again, the government wanting to reinstate rooster fighting in Puerto Rico has zero to do with whether pit bulls should be legal, and was extraneous to the argument. Why didn’t he use a place where dog fighting or even rooster fighting IS legal? Because that might be too on the nose? He was clearly slamming PR, and by implication its people (because the government wouldn’t be trying to make it legal again if it wasn’t popular), and doing going out of his way to do so.

When you gratuitously say “this isn’t (insert other place here), we don’t tolerate those low class barbaric (insert activity here)”, you are very much drawing a comparison to them, with them as the very obviously implicit low class barbarians. That I need to keep explaining while you want to not speak for him but do so Post after post is troubling.

I get that you didn’t see anything wrong with it initially, but you say you understand why others do, while continuing to try to find a way to sanitize it. It’s pretty crystal clear what he meant to say, and to imply.


Yeah

I know it triggers people. I get that. I’m not even trying to say people shouldn’t be triggered.

I’m just asking the people who feel triggered to maybe look at it another way and wait to hear Adkindo’s side.

I’m not even saying my interpretation is the right one. I could be way off. My racial insensitivity antenna could be broken.

I could be wrong. I’m just offering a different point of view and maybe try and convince people that are calling him a racist to wait until he responds.

I’m not defending him but more defending his right to explain things (if he ever does).

For the record I'm not calling adkindo a racist, I'm referring to the statement. If you recall I said I give adkindo "The benefit of the doubt."
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PostPosted: Thu Jan 09, 2020 6:19 pm    Post subject:

PHILosophize wrote:
Omar Little wrote:
FWIW, the pitbull issue is always filled with confounding facts. True, they are much more likely to bite than other breeds or mixed breeds relative to their numbers, and are involved in more fatal attacks than all other breeds overall, but if you separate out the cases of dogs owned by aggressive masters (dog fighters, felons, and the more difficult to parse out aggressive but not criminally convicted males), that number drops precipitously.

Pit Bulls are prized as fighting dogs because of their willingness to do anything their master requires, including fight to the death. That's why they replaced other dogs with similar ability to inflict damage. It is their willingness to accept pain and continue to go on rather than their aggression or damage that makes them unique. They do have remarkably dangerous bites, but this is not something unique to them. Many dogs do. And when accounting for environment, they are not particularly more aggressive or mean than a whole variety of other dogs.


/thread - can vouch for all of this


I'm a huge dog lover and I have to admit, I'm still wary around pit bulls. My brother in law's family has a rescue pit bull and she's docile AF. When I'm playing with her I always have it in the back of my mind that she can eat me for breakfast.
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PostPosted: Thu Jan 09, 2020 7:08 pm    Post subject:

LongBeachPoly wrote:
Omar Little wrote:
Ah, so Adkindo merely transposed roosters to dogs. By accident...


Animal cruelty is barbaric. Supporting any form is a bad mark on that state/US territory.

For all we know, Adkindo could be saying that let’s not be like Puerto Rico which still supports animal cruelty.

I’d like to hear Adkindo. Maybe it just came out wrong.

Doesn’t sound to me like he’s putting down Puerto Rico or Puerto Ricans. Just the animal cruelty part.

The thing is, Puerto Rico is a nationality and a US Territory. If he was to say, let’s not be like Texas, people wouldn’t be as triggered.


People that have traveled internationally (i.e. outside the contiguous 48) know that unfortunately dogs and especially stray dogs are not handled the same way as here in the USA as far as ownership or societal norms. I am not judging it, but to ignore it is silly.
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PostPosted: Thu Jan 09, 2020 7:31 pm    Post subject:

jonnybravo wrote:
PHILosophize wrote:
Omar Little wrote:
FWIW, the pitbull issue is always filled with confounding facts. True, they are much more likely to bite than other breeds or mixed breeds relative to their numbers, and are involved in more fatal attacks than all other breeds overall, but if you separate out the cases of dogs owned by aggressive masters (dog fighters, felons, and the more difficult to parse out aggressive but not criminally convicted males), that number drops precipitously.

Pit Bulls are prized as fighting dogs because of their willingness to do anything their master requires, including fight to the death. That's why they replaced other dogs with similar ability to inflict damage. It is their willingness to accept pain and continue to go on rather than their aggression or damage that makes them unique. They do have remarkably dangerous bites, but this is not something unique to them. Many dogs do. And when accounting for environment, they are not particularly more aggressive or mean than a whole variety of other dogs.


/thread - can vouch for all of this


I'm a huge dog lover and I have to admit, I'm still wary around pit bulls. My brother in law's family has a rescue pit bull and she's docile AF. When I'm playing with her I always have it in the back of my mind that she can eat me for breakfast.


I saw one the other day while waiting outside a Habit that was just adorable. It was even playing with a toddler. It was purebred (owner called it "Razor's Edge"). I don't know if that makes a difference. I do feel sorry for these dogs. The shelters are just overloaded with them.
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PostPosted: Thu Jan 09, 2020 7:31 pm    Post subject:

LakerLanny wrote:
LongBeachPoly wrote:
Omar Little wrote:
Ah, so Adkindo merely transposed roosters to dogs. By accident...


Animal cruelty is barbaric. Supporting any form is a bad mark on that state/US territory.

For all we know, Adkindo could be saying that let’s not be like Puerto Rico which still supports animal cruelty.

I’d like to hear Adkindo. Maybe it just came out wrong.

Doesn’t sound to me like he’s putting down Puerto Rico or Puerto Ricans. Just the animal cruelty part.

The thing is, Puerto Rico is a nationality and a US Territory. If he was to say, let’s not be like Texas, people wouldn’t be as triggered.


People that have traveled internationally (i.e. outside the contiguous 48) know that unfortunately dogs and especially stray dogs are not handled the same way as here in the USA as far as ownership or societal norms. I am not judging it, but to ignore it is silly.


I feel ya. And at the same time, people in other countries see the way we treat the large majority of farm animals we consume in this country leading up to their death. And they (rightfully so) find it disgusting.

Cultural relativism always makes for an interesting discussion.
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PostPosted: Thu Jan 09, 2020 9:32 pm    Post subject:

LakerLanny wrote:
People that have traveled internationally (i.e. outside the contiguous 48) know that unfortunately dogs and especially stray dogs are not handled the same way as here in the USA as far as ownership or societal norms. I am not judging it, but to ignore it is silly.


I've done a lot of international traveling all over the globe. There are plenty of people who treat their dogs well everywhere I have been. And there are plenty of people here in the states who treat their dogs like (bleep).

The US doesn't stand above the rest of the world when it comes to treating their dogs well and it's silly to pretend otherwise.
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PostPosted: Thu Jan 09, 2020 10:13 pm    Post subject:

LakerLanny wrote:
LongBeachPoly wrote:
Omar Little wrote:
Ah, so Adkindo merely transposed roosters to dogs. By accident...


Animal cruelty is barbaric. Supporting any form is a bad mark on that state/US territory.

For all we know, Adkindo could be saying that let’s not be like Puerto Rico which still supports animal cruelty.

I’d like to hear Adkindo. Maybe it just came out wrong.

Doesn’t sound to me like he’s putting down Puerto Rico or Puerto Ricans. Just the animal cruelty part.

The thing is, Puerto Rico is a nationality and a US Territory. If he was to say, let’s not be like Texas, people wouldn’t be as triggered.


People that have traveled internationally (i.e. outside the contiguous 48) know that unfortunately dogs and especially stray dogs are not handled the same way as here in the USA as far as ownership or societal norms. I am not judging it, but to ignore it is silly.


Sure, but that wasn’t the purpose of bringing up Puerto Rico, or else he would have brought up a country that actually allows dog fighting. And again, it wasn’t necessary to add “we aren’t Puerto Rico” or anywhere else to his sentence that we shouldn’t tolerate dog fighting. It stands just fine on its own. There’s a reason for the addition, and it’s very likely tied to the reason he has stopped by but not answered anything in this thread. This isn’t a one off.
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PostPosted: Fri Jan 10, 2020 5:12 am    Post subject:

DaMuleRules wrote:
LakerLanny wrote:
People that have traveled internationally (i.e. outside the contiguous 48) know that unfortunately dogs and especially stray dogs are not handled the same way as here in the USA as far as ownership or societal norms. I am not judging it, but to ignore it is silly.


I've done a lot of international traveling all over the globe. There are plenty of people who treat their dogs well everywhere I have been. And there are plenty of people here in the states who treat their dogs like (bleep).

The US doesn't stand above the rest of the world when it comes to treating their dogs well and it's silly to pretend otherwise.


I was really referencing more stray dogs and such. In the US, they are typically rounded up and put in shelters or pounds, in a lot of other countries (from what I have seen) they roam for life or until someone takes them in.

So as a result, you have a lot of stray dogs running around which you do not typically see in the US, at least not in the areas I frequent most regularly.

You are right that dog owners internationally are no different than dog owners here, some are good and some are bad.
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PostPosted: Fri Jan 10, 2020 7:07 am    Post subject:

Adkindo is right. Here is a site that goes into incredible detail:

https://www.dogsbite.org/dogsbite-recent-dog-bite-statistics.php

https://www.dogsbite.org/dog-bite-statistics-multi-year-fatality-report-2005-2017.php

Summary: In the 13-year period of January 1, 2005 to December 31, 2017, canines killed at least 433 Americans. Pit bulls contributed to 66% of these deaths. Rottweilers, the second leading canine killer, inflicted 10% of attacks that resulted in human death. Combined, two dog breeds accounted for 76% of the total recorded deaths.

Pit bull myths: https://www.dogsbite.org/dangerous-dogs-pit-bull-myths.php#myth1
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PostPosted: Fri Jan 10, 2020 9:55 am    Post subject: Re: Honest discussion about Pit Bull dogs?

adkindo wrote:
The dog slept in the same bed as the owners its whole life.

And then you are surprised that the dog doesn't know its place in hierarchy...
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PostPosted: Fri Jan 10, 2020 10:28 am    Post subject:

WOW, I just came back to this thread, and how many of you tripped over yourself to call me a racist.....some of you dbags even went as far to suggest that you have expected it all along. Let me be clear before I give you the context that I assumed you would all have if you have been following the national news. Take a look in the mirror, and figure out why you are so ignorant to defame someone as racist when you have so little information and context to make that judgement.....it will serve you well in life.

Dog and rooster fighting takes place across the US, especially in the South and Appalachia. I know this as well as anyone, but the lawmakers of these areas are not openly fighting against the laws against this activity. I live in Florida, which has a huge Puerto Rican population, therefore a lot of our news relates to the culture and the island itself. Maybe that is the disconnect that some of you do not have that benefit. That said, for months stories have covered local news and papers relating to the islands leaders pushing back against new Federal legislation related to (bleep) fighting and how law enforcement on the island has not enforced animal cruelty laws for years as it relates to vast dog fighting enterprises on the island. It is big business in Puerto Rico, hence my statement we are not Puerto Rico as in we can not allow this activity to become mainstream in the states. As I said, I personally know of (bleep) fighting rings and venues in West Virginia today, but they do it with some risk as their mayors, sheriffs, and congressional representatives are not almost uniformly pushing back against the Federal and State laws while acknowledging they likely will not enforce federal legislation which is taking place today in Puerto Rico.

If it was not so sad, it would be funny how some of you gain so much joy when you are able to label someone negatively.
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PostPosted: Fri Jan 10, 2020 10:35 am    Post subject:

jonnybravo wrote:
PHILosophize wrote:
Omar Little wrote:
FWIW, the pitbull issue is always filled with confounding facts. True, they are much more likely to bite than other breeds or mixed breeds relative to their numbers, and are involved in more fatal attacks than all other breeds overall, but if you separate out the cases of dogs owned by aggressive masters (dog fighters, felons, and the more difficult to parse out aggressive but not criminally convicted males), that number drops precipitously.

Pit Bulls are prized as fighting dogs because of their willingness to do anything their master requires, including fight to the death. That's why they replaced other dogs with similar ability to inflict damage. It is their willingness to accept pain and continue to go on rather than their aggression or damage that makes them unique. They do have remarkably dangerous bites, but this is not something unique to them. Many dogs do. And when accounting for environment, they are not particularly more aggressive or mean than a whole variety of other dogs.


/thread - can vouch for all of this


I'm a huge dog lover and I have to admit, I'm still wary around pit bulls. My brother in law's family has a rescue pit bull and she's docile AF. When I'm playing with her I always have it in the back of my mind that she can eat me for breakfast.


Pitbulls bred for fighting are prone to animal aggression. Pitbull aggression towards humans was stamped out decades ago because you cannot have a human aggressive dog in a dog fighting ring. It would make breaking the dogs apart very dangerous.

Dogs (any breed) that are human aggressive have led very brutal lives. I had a neighbor who fought his dogs and he'd literally start there day by going out where they were chained up and started their day with a beating. Either with a bat or a taser. How long could any animal or human be subjected to that before they become so damaged they are a danger to everyone? I called animal control on this guy numerous times and for whatever reason nothing was ever done.

On the flipside my dogs were raised in our home and were very much a part of our family since birth. The only issue I have ever had is with other animals who tried to get to close to anyone in our family. In that scenario I will concede that pitbulls will be very unpredictable. When it comes to people they are very predictable. They just want to be petted and allowed to sit on your lap.
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PostPosted: Fri Jan 10, 2020 10:44 am    Post subject:

Surfitall wrote:
Adkindo is right. Here is a site that goes into incredible detail:

https://www.dogsbite.org/dogsbite-recent-dog-bite-statistics.php

https://www.dogsbite.org/dog-bite-statistics-multi-year-fatality-report-2005-2017.php

Summary: In the 13-year period of January 1, 2005 to December 31, 2017, canines killed at least 433 Americans. Pit bulls contributed to 66% of these deaths. Rottweilers, the second leading canine killer, inflicted 10% of attacks that resulted in human death. Combined, two dog breeds accounted for 76% of the total recorded deaths.

Pit bull myths: https://www.dogsbite.org/dangerous-dogs-pit-bull-myths.php#myth1


I would love to know who wrote that article in the link to pit bull myths. The comments made in that article are so patently false it's laughable.
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PostPosted: Fri Jan 10, 2020 10:46 am    Post subject:

Omar Little wrote:
LakerLanny wrote:
LongBeachPoly wrote:
Omar Little wrote:
Ah, so Adkindo merely transposed roosters to dogs. By accident...


Animal cruelty is barbaric. Supporting any form is a bad mark on that state/US territory.

For all we know, Adkindo could be saying that let’s not be like Puerto Rico which still supports animal cruelty.

I’d like to hear Adkindo. Maybe it just came out wrong.

Doesn’t sound to me like he’s putting down Puerto Rico or Puerto Ricans. Just the animal cruelty part.

The thing is, Puerto Rico is a nationality and a US Territory. If he was to say, let’s not be like Texas, people wouldn’t be as triggered.


People that have traveled internationally (i.e. outside the contiguous 48) know that unfortunately dogs and especially stray dogs are not handled the same way as here in the USA as far as ownership or societal norms. I am not judging it, but to ignore it is silly.


Sure, but that wasn’t the purpose of bringing up Puerto Rico, or else he would have brought up a country that actually allows dog fighting. And again, it wasn’t necessary to add “we aren’t Puerto Rico” or anywhere else to his sentence that we shouldn’t tolerate dog fighting. It stands just fine on its own. There’s a reason for the addition, and it’s very likely tied to the reason he has stopped by but not answered anything in this thread. This isn’t a one off.


You have issues my man. The fact is you are ignorant of what is taking place in Puerto Rico today, and has been a topic that has received much national attention, and an extreme amount of local attention in my area. Your comment about "this is not a one off" suggests what? I have an issue with Puerto Rico or Puerto Ricans? At least half of my friends and neighbors are Puerto Ricans. How about you? I have visited the island several times for voluntary recreation because I love the place.....how about you? I can tell you about some of my favorite places from San Juan to Fajardo....how about you? I have went with Puerto Rican friends to meet with residents for adult fun and also taken my daughter there multiple times for family fun....how about you?

You have a nasty habit of being dead wrong about claims you make, and then even when it is clear you are wrong, you feel the need to double down....and that clearly is not a one off. I will be clear with you....you have made comments before and tried to pass them off as not being serious.....do not call me or infer that I am a racist unless you have support for that statement. We do not agree on many things....but that should not lead to you routinely attributing bad personal characteristics to me because it makes you feel more secure.
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PostPosted: Fri Jan 10, 2020 10:55 am    Post subject:

it is literally almost every day....my goal is not to offend anyone, but the claim that these dogs are like any other breed when it comes to aggression and attacking humans simply holds no water with me. Almost one person a week or two is killed in the US by Pit Bulls and it most often is an owner or someone the dog has been familiar with for a long period.

in today's news...

https://www.kentucky.com/news/state/kentucky/article239164753.html
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PostPosted: Fri Jan 10, 2020 11:09 am    Post subject:

an interesting article about a theory of no-kill policies effects on Pit Bulls..

Is ‘No Kill’ Changing the Genetics of Pit Bulls?

just an excerpt...

Quote:
Here is a terrifying example of the relentless nature of a Pit Bull attack. It was recorded on the kennel video in the Oakland County animal shelter and reported this week by the Detroit Free Press. The severely injured supervisor was a 25-year veteran of animal care and control.

The four-year-old Pit Bull involved, Roscoe, and had been surrendered after he attacked an adult and two children in the family that had reportedly loved and raised him since a puppy.


Quote:
The report states that, even after the incident was conveyed to the family, the mother refused to give permission to euthanize the dog, blaming the serious attack on herself and her two children to the fact she had been "talking too loud."

Roscoe had also previously bitten a shelter worker who took him out for a walk.
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PostPosted: Fri Jan 10, 2020 11:22 am    Post subject:

ARIZONA TODDLER, 2, IN CRITICAL CONDITION AFTER BEING MAULED BY HER GRANDFATHER'S PIT BULL

Quote:
The friend added that the pit bull is usually not aggressive and the attack was "out of character.


LINK

Stark County man beats pitbull off girl with Christmas decoration

Quote:
″... That dog was vicious,” Miller said Monday morning.


Quote:
It appeared the attack was unprovoked, Pomesky said.


LINK

I will not keep posting stories because I could do it for years there are so many attacks. These are not dogs that have been abused or have been raised to fight. These are dogs that in almost every story the owner claims the dog has been raised with the family....never showed aggression before....attacked owners unprovoked. I am not sure what else to say....or how people can still feel like their Pit Bull will not be the story someday because it appears all of these people claimed the same thing until it happened. Like I said....fatalities are about 1 per week or two, but attacks that often disable people and require surgery or surgeries appear to happen daily in the US.....and I rarely if ever hear the claim that the dog has been abused or shown aggression in the past.
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PostPosted: Fri Jan 10, 2020 12:35 pm    Post subject:

The data speaks for itself unless people don't believe the data.
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PostPosted: Fri Jan 10, 2020 12:38 pm    Post subject:

ChickenStu wrote:
Just my opinion, but I think it's irresponsible of any parent with a small child at home to have any of the dog breeds with more dangerous, aggressive bites, and among those are pit bulls. You can include Rottweilers and other breeds. Like, could any dog get angry and, in theory, wig out and bite? Sure. But my mixed terrier, even if he for some reason got angry and showed his teeth, isn't going to inflict serious damage on the same level that we've seen pit bulls and other breeds clearly do. So that's where I am on the issue.

That said, pit bulls are awesome dogs if all environments are equal.


Out of curiosity, do German Shepherds (or basically all big dogs) fall into this category for you?

Edit: Also, my sis had a chunk of her face bitten off by one of those "small and friendly" dogs whereas my German Shepherd has never even attempted to bite someone after he reached the age of 3 months old.
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PostPosted: Fri Jan 10, 2020 2:38 pm    Post subject:

BadGuy wrote:
ChickenStu wrote:
Just my opinion, but I think it's irresponsible of any parent with a small child at home to have any of the dog breeds with more dangerous, aggressive bites, and among those are pit bulls. You can include Rottweilers and other breeds. Like, could any dog get angry and, in theory, wig out and bite? Sure. But my mixed terrier, even if he for some reason got angry and showed his teeth, isn't going to inflict serious damage on the same level that we've seen pit bulls and other breeds clearly do. So that's where I am on the issue.

That said, pit bulls are awesome dogs if all environments are equal.


Out of curiosity, do German Shepherds (or basically all big dogs) fall into this category for you?

Edit: Also, my sis had a chunk of her face bitten off by one of those "small and friendly" dogs whereas my German Shepherd has never even attempted to bite someone after he reached the age of 3 months old.

Only dog I'd rate over a Shepherd is a Dalmatian. True story. My mother would put my youngest sister in the back yard on a blanket. King, my dog's name, would watch her. He was a very friendly dog. He'd play with all the neighborhood kids. He was very protective of my sister. One day when she was in the back yard my friend Randy wanted to go and play with her. I told him not to because King wouldn't allow it. He scoffed and said "King knows me." When he started down the path to the yard King growled a warning. If my sister would wander off of the blanket he's grab her by the diaper and pull her back to the blanket. This dog was never trained he was a natural.
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PostPosted: Fri Jan 10, 2020 2:56 pm    Post subject:

Nurture is the greater variable than nature when it comes to dog attacks. Which occur X times more than actual fatal incidents involving dogs.

Sure, pit bulls and rottweilers have a greater physical ability to do harm with their bites than other breeds of dogs.
But genetics aren't the determining factor for whether they attack or not.
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PostPosted: Fri Jan 10, 2020 3:51 pm    Post subject:

jodeke wrote:
BadGuy wrote:
ChickenStu wrote:
Just my opinion, but I think it's irresponsible of any parent with a small child at home to have any of the dog breeds with more dangerous, aggressive bites, and among those are pit bulls. You can include Rottweilers and other breeds. Like, could any dog get angry and, in theory, wig out and bite? Sure. But my mixed terrier, even if he for some reason got angry and showed his teeth, isn't going to inflict serious damage on the same level that we've seen pit bulls and other breeds clearly do. So that's where I am on the issue.

That said, pit bulls are awesome dogs if all environments are equal.


Out of curiosity, do German Shepherds (or basically all big dogs) fall into this category for you?

Edit: Also, my sis had a chunk of her face bitten off by one of those "small and friendly" dogs whereas my German Shepherd has never even attempted to bite someone after he reached the age of 3 months old.

Only dog I'd rate over a Shepherd is a Dalmatian. True story. My mother would put my youngest sister in the back yard on a blanket. King, my dog's name, would watch her. He was a very friendly dog. He'd play with all the neighborhood kids. He was very protective of my sister. One day when she was in the back yard my friend Randy wanted to go and play with her. I told him not to because King wouldn't allow it. He scoffed and said "King knows me." When he started down the path to the yard King growled a warning. If my sister would wander off of the blanket he's grab her by the diaper and pull her back to the blanket. This dog was never trained he was a natural.


Love that.
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PostPosted: Fri Jan 10, 2020 4:04 pm    Post subject:

adkindo wrote:
an interesting article about a theory of no-kill policies effects on Pit Bulls..

Is ‘No Kill’ Changing the Genetics of Pit Bulls?

just an excerpt...

Quote:
Here is a terrifying example of the relentless nature of a Pit Bull attack. It was recorded on the kennel video in the Oakland County animal shelter and reported this week by the Detroit Free Press. The severely injured supervisor was a 25-year veteran of animal care and control.

The four-year-old Pit Bull involved, Roscoe, and had been surrendered after he attacked an adult and two children in the family that had reportedly loved and raised him since a puppy.


Quote:
The report states that, even after the incident was conveyed to the family, the mother refused to give permission to euthanize the dog, blaming the serious attack on herself and her two children to the fact she had been "talking too loud."

Roscoe had also previously bitten a shelter worker who took him out for a walk.

I've had quite a few challenging dogs over the years. My current house mate is a 2 1/2 year old 60 pound female rescue pit. She is a sweet and loving pet, but I can see the difference in this breed in comparison to others I've had (Huskies, GSs, Golden Retriever, Labs, Jack Russell) and it is obvious she would be a handful without the proper training and care. In simple terms, the owner has to command respect while understanding the dog's body language and needs. One has to lead the dog and train it to follow which she does to a fault as Omar alluded to. One has to control food so the dog regards the human as the source of sustenance. One has to control the dog's schedule and freedom of movement with crate training. One has to draw clear lines and then enforce them when they are crossed - no nipping of hands to get your attention, no gaining the higher ground by standing on hind legs or climbing on the couch. If she wants to go in or out, she sits and waits until invited - not when the door opens, but when she is commanded to go. When the doorbell rings, she sits until dismissed. No begging for food ever, in fact she knows not to come into the kitchen. She eats food from me in a bowl that I present to her full and take away 15 minutes later.

She has an easy demeanor, responds well to treats for training and craves praise and affection. She loves other dogs and behaves quite well at the dog park. Nevertheless, the primal kill instinct is present in everything she does. She will fetch relentlessly and won't quit until you do. No matter what else is going on, she will hunt, kill and retrieve that ball every single time no matter how long you last or how tired she gets. She loves squeaky toys and will bite compulsively, each subsequent 'scream' triggering another bite. Using her front paws to secure her 'prey', she'll chomp down down and use the considerable strength of her entire body to rip the toy apart. Nothing survives. Her bite is substantial but it is her determination and pull strength that get the job done.

Overcoming the kill instinct involves:
1. Showing dominance with your body language. Not yelling, certainly not hitting, but the simple act of standing without looking at her triggers her submission. Her food belongs to me, so presenting her with a bowl of food triggers loyalty. Her ball belongs to me, so playing with her triggers affection. My praise and petting when she does good things gives her pride. My treats in exchange for her tricks keeps her happy and thinking about pleasing me. Her crate is the only thing that is hers, so respecting her quiet time makes her feel safe and comfortable. Being around other dogs let's her feel as part of a pack and being around people keeps her from feeling threatened by the exciting activity and loud noise that people surround themselves with.

2. Understanding their needs. Dogs need both attention and discipline, rules and consequences. Exercise and training and baths and play and a crate that she enjoys as her safe, quiet place to be alone. Knowing your dog's motivation and needs and understanding their body language will help you anticipate problems so you can remove her from a situation well before things get physical. For example, my girl was born into a home with a big, mean GS. I know seeing another GS will make her nervous so I watch her interactions with those dogs a bit more carefully. When I see her demeanor change (her first move is to run away from the other dog) I whistle to gain her attention so I can divert it back to playing fetch.

3. Food and exercise. She needs to be exhausted daily to keep her tired and calm. She plays fetch constantly, gets a long walk every night and a trip to the Dog Park as often as possible, usually 2-3 times per week. She gets healthy food, marrow bones and bully sticks. Regular checkups make sure she is healthy and not in pain. Grooming, trimming nails and caring for her teeth and gums make sure she can eat and exercise properly and stay healthy.

This is all basic dog training, but I sincerely doubt that the problem dogs are cared for in this way which is why this dog problem is actually a people problem. I say in jest to friends that my dog is vicious killer, which is funny because she is super cute and well behaved. But Pits are not a good choice for a family who want a snuggly pet and fall in live with a cute little puppy. Aggressive breeds require aggressive attention and care and it is imperative that potential owners commit themselves to the process or someone could get hurt. The 'worst' dog I ever had was the Jack Russell, but his size and strength wasn't enough to cause real concern. That is certainly not the case with a Pit Bull.
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