Honest discussion about Pit Bull dogs?
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adkindo
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PostPosted: Thu Jan 09, 2020 11:44 am    Post subject: Honest discussion about Pit Bull dogs?

Yesterday there was a national story about a Pit Bull that attacked an infant in New York and some good samaritans stepped in to save the infant. The article referenced a video, but I did not see an included video, so I tried to Google the story in search of the video. To no surprise, searching for Pit Bull attacks brings up and infinite number of reports across the country where it seems to happen somewhere multiple times weekly. The stories are always similar...he/she was a family pet, the dog slept in the same bed as the owner for years....and just the best dog ever that decided to eat it's owners face one day, or even worse often a child in the home. No rescue or abuse reported in the dogs history.

I am a dog lover....and I also strongly support individuals rights and an individuals responsibilities. I am over the tired line from Pit Bull advocates that these dogs are just like every other dog and it is how they are raised. There is overwhelming evidence that these dogs are not similar to other dogs and have somewhat routinely attacked without provocation. Locally, last year an elderly couple in their late 60's had a Pit Bull that was 7 years old, and they had it since it was a pup. Like many pet lovers, their home was covered in everything from fridge magnets to professional photos of their beloved Pit Bull. The dog slept in the same bed as the owners its whole life. On a random Wednesday, a neighbor spotted the Pit Bull standing over the elderly owner who appeared lifeless. When authorities arrived, they determined the owners throat had been ripped out, and security cameras caught the entire episode....the lady had petted the dog less than 3 minutes before he/she attacked her as she walked across the back yard. This story is true, and only happens with one breed of dog.

These dogs routinely get loose and terrorize neighborhoods or kill others' pets without much consequence for the owners. Again, I am not advocating that an adult should not be able to own a Pit Bull, but should we not place some regulations on when a minor under the age of 12 resides in the home? Maybe the home is required to have quick access to a tranquilizer? Increase the penalties for transgressions of the dog on and off property to incentivise owners to be more responsible? My favorite breed of dog in the Doberman Pinscher for many of the reasons that Pit Bull advocates like the Pit Bull....they are strong, lean and very protective....but when is the last time you read a story of the family Dobi mauling the new baby to death or eating the owners face? Labs and Retrievers bite people everyday...but nobody loses their life from these bites. Stop telling me Pit Bulls are just like any other dog!

Finally, can we just stop pretending that people have 7 or 8 Pit Bulls in a backyard kennel because they love them as pets. A professional in Animal Control once told me that anytime a home has more than 3 Pit Bulls on property and they are housed outside in some type of individual cages/kennels, it is very likely they are being raised to fight or are actually currently fighting. This is not Puerto Rico....we just can't tolerate this low class barbaric activity....yet Animal Control people can do very little unless they actually witness the abuse. The recent story about Trent Williams of the Washington Redskins Pit Bulls who had killed a neighbors pet and terrorized the neighborhood as they routinely got loose reminded me of that statement as it said Williams had many on property and most were caged individually.

Any thoughts? Can anything be done legally? Should we just accept that irresponsible people will continue to house these animals with small children and defenseless infants....and we will just lose a few here and there?
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PostPosted: Thu Jan 09, 2020 12:20 pm    Post subject: Re: Honest discussion about Pit Bull dogs?

adkindo wrote:
This is not Puerto Rico....we just can't tolerate this low class barbaric activity....


Seriously. F off!
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PostPosted: Thu Jan 09, 2020 12:29 pm    Post subject: Re: Honest discussion about Pit Bull dogs?

Heartburn wrote:
adkindo wrote:
This is not Puerto Rico....we just can't tolerate this low class barbaric activity....


Seriously. F off!

+1
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PostPosted: Thu Jan 09, 2020 12:45 pm    Post subject:

Link to the anecdote about the elderly couple?
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PostPosted: Thu Jan 09, 2020 1:20 pm    Post subject: Re: Honest discussion about Pit Bull dogs?

adkindo wrote:
Yesterday there was a national story about a Pit Bull that attacked an infant in New York and some good samaritans stepped in to save the infant. The article referenced a video, but I did not see an included video, so I tried to Google the story in search of the video. To no surprise, searching for Pit Bull attacks brings up and infinite number of reports across the country where it seems to happen somewhere multiple times weekly. The stories are always similar...he/she was a family pet, the dog slept in the same bed as the owner for years....and just the best dog ever that decided to eat it's owners face one day, or even worse often a child in the home. No rescue or abuse reported in the dogs history.

I am a dog lover....and I also strongly support individuals rights and an individuals responsibilities. I am over the tired line from Pit Bull advocates that these dogs are just like every other dog and it is how they are raised. There is overwhelming evidence that these dogs are not similar to other dogs and have somewhat routinely attacked without provocation. Locally, last year an elderly couple in their late 60's had a Pit Bull that was 7 years old, and they had it since it was a pup. Like many pet lovers, their home was covered in everything from fridge magnets to professional photos of their beloved Pit Bull. The dog slept in the same bed as the owners its whole life. On a random Wednesday, a neighbor spotted the Pit Bull standing over the elderly owner who appeared lifeless. When authorities arrived, they determined the owners throat had been ripped out, and security cameras caught the entire episode....the lady had petted the dog less than 3 minutes before he/she attacked her as she walked across the back yard. This story is true, and only happens with one breed of dog.

These dogs routinely get loose and terrorize neighborhoods or kill others' pets without much consequence for the owners. Again, I am not advocating that an adult should not be able to own a Pit Bull, but should we not place some regulations on when a minor under the age of 12 resides in the home? Maybe the home is required to have quick access to a tranquilizer? Increase the penalties for transgressions of the dog on and off property to incentivise owners to be more responsible? My favorite breed of dog in the Doberman Pinscher for many of the reasons that Pit Bull advocates like the Pit Bull....they are strong, lean and very protective....but when is the last time you read a story of the family Dobi mauling the new baby to death or eating the owners face? Labs and Retrievers bite people everyday...but nobody loses their life from these bites. Stop telling me Pit Bulls are just like any other dog!

Finally, can we just stop pretending that people have 7 or 8 Pit Bulls in a backyard kennel because they love them as pets. A professional in Animal Control once told me that anytime a home has more than 3 Pit Bulls on property and they are housed outside in some type of individual cages/kennels, it is very likely they are being raised to fight or are actually currently fighting. This is not Puerto Rico....we just can't tolerate this low class barbaric activity....yet Animal Control people can do very little unless they actually witness the abuse. The recent story about Trent Williams of the Washington Redskins Pit Bulls who had killed a neighbors pet and terrorized the neighborhood as they routinely got loose reminded me of that statement as it said Williams had many on property and most were caged individually.

Any thoughts? Can anything be done legally? Should we just accept that irresponsible people will continue to house these animals with small children and defenseless infants....and we will just lose a few here and there?


I was going to try and respond to the actual topic but really?
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PostPosted: Thu Jan 09, 2020 1:27 pm    Post subject:

I've considered adopting one of these dogs because ethically I refuse to go to a breeder, and they're all you find anymore at a pound. I guess the topic's burned...
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PostPosted: Thu Jan 09, 2020 1:30 pm    Post subject:

FWIW, the pitbull issue is always filled with confounding facts. True, they are much more likely to bite than other breeds or mixed breeds relative to their numbers, and are involved in more fatal attacks than all other breeds overall, but if you separate out the cases of dogs owned by aggressive masters (dog fighters, felons, and the more difficult to parse out aggressive but not criminally convicted males), that number drops precipitously.

Pit Bulls are prized as fighting dogs because of their willingness to do anything their master requires, including fight to the death. That's why they replaced other dogs with similar ability to inflict damage. It is their willingness to accept pain and continue to go on rather than their aggression or damage that makes them unique. They do have remarkably dangerous bites, but this is not something unique to them. Many dogs do. And when accounting for environment, they are not particularly more aggressive or mean than a whole variety of other dogs.
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PostPosted: Thu Jan 09, 2020 1:50 pm    Post subject: Re: Honest discussion about Pit Bull dogs?

Omar Little wrote:
adkindo wrote:
Yesterday there was a national story about a Pit Bull that attacked an infant in New York and some good samaritans stepped in to save the infant. The article referenced a video, but I did not see an included video, so I tried to Google the story in search of the video. To no surprise, searching for Pit Bull attacks brings up and infinite number of reports across the country where it seems to happen somewhere multiple times weekly. The stories are always similar...he/she was a family pet, the dog slept in the same bed as the owner for years....and just the best dog ever that decided to eat it's owners face one day, or even worse often a child in the home. No rescue or abuse reported in the dogs history.

I am a dog lover....and I also strongly support individuals rights and an individuals responsibilities. I am over the tired line from Pit Bull advocates that these dogs are just like every other dog and it is how they are raised. There is overwhelming evidence that these dogs are not similar to other dogs and have somewhat routinely attacked without provocation. Locally, last year an elderly couple in their late 60's had a Pit Bull that was 7 years old, and they had it since it was a pup. Like many pet lovers, their home was covered in everything from fridge magnets to professional photos of their beloved Pit Bull. The dog slept in the same bed as the owners its whole life. On a random Wednesday, a neighbor spotted the Pit Bull standing over the elderly owner who appeared lifeless. When authorities arrived, they determined the owners throat had been ripped out, and security cameras caught the entire episode....the lady had petted the dog less than 3 minutes before he/she attacked her as she walked across the back yard. This story is true, and only happens with one breed of dog.

These dogs routinely get loose and terrorize neighborhoods or kill others' pets without much consequence for the owners. Again, I am not advocating that an adult should not be able to own a Pit Bull, but should we not place some regulations on when a minor under the age of 12 resides in the home? Maybe the home is required to have quick access to a tranquilizer? Increase the penalties for transgressions of the dog on and off property to incentivise owners to be more responsible? My favorite breed of dog in the Doberman Pinscher for many of the reasons that Pit Bull advocates like the Pit Bull....they are strong, lean and very protective....but when is the last time you read a story of the family Dobi mauling the new baby to death or eating the owners face? Labs and Retrievers bite people everyday...but nobody loses their life from these bites. Stop telling me Pit Bulls are just like any other dog!

Finally, can we just stop pretending that people have 7 or 8 Pit Bulls in a backyard kennel because they love them as pets. A professional in Animal Control once told me that anytime a home has more than 3 Pit Bulls on property and they are housed outside in some type of individual cages/kennels, it is very likely they are being raised to fight or are actually currently fighting. This is not Puerto Rico....we just can't tolerate this low class barbaric activity....yet Animal Control people can do very little unless they actually witness the abuse. The recent story about Trent Williams of the Washington Redskins Pit Bulls who had killed a neighbors pet and terrorized the neighborhood as they routinely got loose reminded me of that statement as it said Williams had many on property and most were caged individually.

Any thoughts? Can anything be done legally? Should we just accept that irresponsible people will continue to house these animals with small children and defenseless infants....and we will just lose a few here and there?


I was going to try and respond to the actual topic but really?

Relating to adkindo I've always ascribe to "Benefit Of The Doubt." This comment leaves no doubt. It's racist, intended or not.
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PostPosted: Thu Jan 09, 2020 1:52 pm    Post subject:

Yeah, you can't defend that on legality (it is illegal in PR), or frequency of illegal activity (the southern US holds that distinction).
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PostPosted: Thu Jan 09, 2020 2:06 pm    Post subject: Re: Honest discussion about Pit Bull dogs?

adkindo wrote:
Yesterday there was a national story about a Pit Bull that attacked an infant in New York and some good samaritans stepped in to save the infant. The article referenced a video, but I did not see an included video, so I tried to Google the story in search of the video. To no surprise, searching for Pit Bull attacks brings up and infinite number of reports across the country where it seems to happen somewhere multiple times weekly. The stories are always similar...he/she was a family pet, the dog slept in the same bed as the owner for years....and just the best dog ever that decided to eat it's owners face one day, or even worse often a child in the home. No rescue or abuse reported in the dogs history.

I am a dog lover....and I also strongly support individuals rights and an individuals responsibilities. I am over the tired line from Pit Bull advocates that these dogs are just like every other dog and it is how they are raised. There is overwhelming evidence that these dogs are not similar to other dogs and have somewhat routinely attacked without provocation. Locally, last year an elderly couple in their late 60's had a Pit Bull that was 7 years old, and they had it since it was a pup. Like many pet lovers, their home was covered in everything from fridge magnets to professional photos of their beloved Pit Bull. The dog slept in the same bed as the owners its whole life. On a random Wednesday, a neighbor spotted the Pit Bull standing over the elderly owner who appeared lifeless. When authorities arrived, they determined the owners throat had been ripped out, and security cameras caught the entire episode....the lady had petted the dog less than 3 minutes before he/she attacked her as she walked across the back yard. This story is true, and only happens with one breed of dog.

These dogs routinely get loose and terrorize neighborhoods or kill others' pets without much consequence for the owners. Again, I am not advocating that an adult should not be able to own a Pit Bull, but should we not place some regulations on when a minor under the age of 12 resides in the home? Maybe the home is required to have quick access to a tranquilizer? Increase the penalties for transgressions of the dog on and off property to incentivise owners to be more responsible? My favorite breed of dog in the Doberman Pinscher for many of the reasons that Pit Bull advocates like the Pit Bull....they are strong, lean and very protective....but when is the last time you read a story of the family Dobi mauling the new baby to death or eating the owners face? Labs and Retrievers bite people everyday...but nobody loses their life from these bites. Stop telling me Pit Bulls are just like any other dog!

Finally, can we just stop pretending that people have 7 or 8 Pit Bulls in a backyard kennel because they love them as pets. A professional in Animal Control once told me that anytime a home has more than 3 Pit Bulls on property and they are housed outside in some type of individual cages/kennels, it is very likely they are being raised to fight or are actually currently fighting. This is not Puerto Rico....we just can't tolerate this low class barbaric activity....yet Animal Control people can do very little unless they actually witness the abuse. The recent story about Trent Williams of the Washington Redskins Pit Bulls who had killed a neighbors pet and terrorized the neighborhood as they routinely got loose reminded me of that statement as it said Williams had many on property and most were caged individually.

Any thoughts? Can anything be done legally? Should we just accept that irresponsible people will continue to house these animals with small children and defenseless infants....and we will just lose a few here and there?


I've owned pitbulls exclusively for over 20 years. Not once have they attacked me or my kids. Our female Mocha slept with my daughter every night until she went off to college then she slept with my son for another 5 years until she died.

These pitbull "attacks" you keep referencing? I question the validity of any of these stories. When there is a video or photo attached to a story it's some mixed half breed.

Why is it pitbulls were in every home at one time, including the white house, and now all of a sudden they are dangerous?

I call BS.

Here is the temperament score for a American Pitbull Terrier: 87.4%

That means that 87.4% of pitbulls pass.

Now lets look at Golden Retrievers: 85.6%

https://atts.org/breed-statistics/statistics-page1/


Last edited by buduan on Thu Jan 09, 2020 2:09 pm; edited 2 times in total
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PostPosted: Thu Jan 09, 2020 2:06 pm    Post subject:

Omar Little wrote:
Yeah, you can't defend that on legality (it is illegal in PR), or frequency of illegal activity (the southern US holds that distinction).


It's not worthy of parsing or a substantive response. It's prima facie racist.

Remind me why we never adopted a block feature on this site?
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PostPosted: Thu Jan 09, 2020 2:20 pm    Post subject:

My honest opinion is that animals can be loving, however, I would never leave a pitbull or animal with the potential to bite alone with an infant/kids. It is my responsibility as a human being to watch over my kids/child and myself from incidents such as these. Even humans can attack humans. Pitbulls aren't perfect. I believe they have a primal instinct and triggers. Something like smell, sound or anything can just trigger them to attack. They may be good but they still have the capacity of attacking.

And their jaws are powerful, so once they bite it can be life threatening especially if they start to maul.
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PostPosted: Thu Jan 09, 2020 2:33 pm    Post subject:

As a child we, my sisters and I, had a boxer. When it was time for my mother to discipline us she would tell my father to take the dog for a walk. Even when she or he would raise their voices to us the dog would growl.
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PostPosted: Thu Jan 09, 2020 2:38 pm    Post subject:

Quote:


Puerto Rico is wrong to battle animal fighting ban

By WAYNE PACELLE
GUEST COLUMNIST
FEB 27, 2019 | 9:45 AM


Two birds inside a plastic cage look at each other moments before a (bleep) match in Barranquitas, central Puerto Rico in 2006.
Two birds inside a plastic cage look at each other moments before a (bleep) match in Barranquitas, central Puerto Rico in 2006. (Ricardo Arduengo / Associated Press)

Just two months after President Trump signed a farm bill that included a broadly supported provision strengthening federal laws against dogfighting and (bleep), Puerto Rico’s Delegate Commissioner has introduced H.R. 1189 in the U.S. House to repeal the provision. With great respect for the Commissioner and the other territorial lawmakers serving in Congress, I ask that they rethink their support for a barbaric enterprise in which organizers place animals in a pit, affix knives or gaffs to their legs, and goad them to fight until they are maimed or dead.

https://www.orlandosentinel.com/opinion/os-op-guest-column-(bleep)-ban-20190227-story.html



Quote:


BREAKING NEWS: Department of Justice defends federal (bleep) ban in Puerto Rico, Guam



October 8, 2019
BREAKING NEWS: Department of Justice defends federal (bleep) ban in Puerto Rico, Guam
Roosters caught up in (bleep) enterprises suffer immense cruelty: they spend their lives tethered outside to small A-frame huts or barrels, vulnerable to harsh weather. Photo by Heather Severt/The HSUS

The federal government has filed a brief strongly defending a law that would expand the ban on (bleep) in the United States to Puerto Rico, Guam and other U.S. territories.

(bleep) seeking to overturn the ban have challenged it in federal court, claiming it would cause them to lose “lawful business opportunities, loss of income and profits.” But the U.S. Department of Justice said in its brief this week that federal precedent is clear: Congress not only has the authority to ban animal fighting across all 50 states, but it can also apply it to U.S. territories.

https://blog.humanesociety.org/2019/10/breaking-news-department-of-justice-defends-federal-(bleep)-ban-in-puerto-rico.html

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PostPosted: Thu Jan 09, 2020 2:57 pm    Post subject:

Ah, so Adkindo merely transposed roosters to dogs. By accident...
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PostPosted: Thu Jan 09, 2020 3:05 pm    Post subject:

greenfrog wrote:
I've considered adopting one of these dogs because ethically I refuse to go to a breeder, and they're all you find anymore at a pound. I guess the topic's burned...


There are a lot of pet adoption places you can look into. I've been trying to find a rescue English Bulldog and those are hard to find. If you're not too picky, I don't think you'll have a problem finding one.

https://www.petfinder.com/
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PostPosted: Thu Jan 09, 2020 3:07 pm    Post subject:

Omar Little wrote:
Ah, so Adkindo merely transposed roosters to dogs. By accident...


Animal cruelty is barbaric. Supporting any form is a bad mark on that state/US territory.

For all we know, Adkindo could be saying that let’s not be like Puerto Rico which still supports animal cruelty.

I’d like to hear Adkindo. Maybe it just came out wrong.

Doesn’t sound to me like he’s putting down Puerto Rico or Puerto Ricans. Just the animal cruelty part.

The thing is, Puerto Rico is a nationality and a US Territory. If he was to say, let’s not be like Texas, people wouldn’t be as triggered.
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PostPosted: Thu Jan 09, 2020 3:19 pm    Post subject:

It happens in the south, too, where adkindo lives. He didn't refer to it as a southern practice though, did he? He made no mention of southerners being barbaric. Nope, it was Puerto Rico.

But yeah, you're right. Maybe it just came out wrong.

This world is really becoming the land of the obtuse. What is clear as day is no longer clear as day. It must be something else. Who are you going to believe? Me or your lying eyes? Effing ponderous.
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PostPosted: Thu Jan 09, 2020 3:23 pm    Post subject:

LongBeachPoly wrote:
Omar Little wrote:
Ah, so Adkindo merely transposed roosters to dogs. By accident...


Animal cruelty is barbaric. Supporting any form is a bad mark on that state/US territory.

For all we know, Adkindo could be saying that let’s not be like Puerto Rico which still supports animal cruelty.

I’d like to hear Adkindo. Maybe it just came out wrong.

Doesn’t sound to me like he’s putting down Puerto Rico or Puerto Ricans. Just the animal cruelty part.

The thing is, Puerto Rico is a nationality and a US Territory. If he was to say, let’s not be like Texas, people wouldn’t be as triggered.


I understand. I didn't automatically suspend him, but it is suspicious that he kind of crossed over species to call the PR barbaric when he for sure knows that fighting with pit bulls is right in his back yard. And then pulled the patented disappearing act. So I will forebear, but it better be a really smell proof explanation.
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PostPosted: Thu Jan 09, 2020 3:23 pm    Post subject:

Heartburn wrote:
It happens in the south, too, where adkindo lives. He didn't refer to it as a southern practice though, did he? He made no mention of southerners being barbaric. Nope, it was Puerto Rico.

But yeah, you're right. Maybe it just came out wrong.

This world is really becoming the land of the obtuse. What is clear as day is no longer clear as day. It must be something else. Who are you going to believe? Me or your lying eyes? Effing ponderous.


But is he criticizing the people (Puerto Ricans) or the government that supports animal cruelty?

It might happen in the South, but it’s against the law.

It happens in Puerto Rico and it’s only recently been banned and they are fighting it.
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PostPosted: Thu Jan 09, 2020 3:25 pm    Post subject:

LongBeachPoly wrote:
Heartburn wrote:
It happens in the south, too, where adkindo lives. He didn't refer to it as a southern practice though, did he? He made no mention of southerners being barbaric. Nope, it was Puerto Rico.

But yeah, you're right. Maybe it just came out wrong.

This world is really becoming the land of the obtuse. What is clear as day is no longer clear as day. It must be something else. Who are you going to believe? Me or your lying eyes? Effing ponderous.


But is he criticizing the people (Puerto Ricans) or the government that supports animal cruelty?

It might happen in the South, but it’s against the law.

It happens in Puerto Rico and it’s only recently been banned and they are fighting it.


No, they are fighting the banning of fighting with roosters.
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PostPosted: Thu Jan 09, 2020 3:26 pm    Post subject:

Genocide. Along with chihuhuas.
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PostPosted: Thu Jan 09, 2020 3:31 pm    Post subject:

Some remarks are racists no matter where the arrow is aimed.
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PostPosted: Thu Jan 09, 2020 3:32 pm    Post subject:

Omar Little wrote:
LongBeachPoly wrote:
Heartburn wrote:
It happens in the south, too, where adkindo lives. He didn't refer to it as a southern practice though, did he? He made no mention of southerners being barbaric. Nope, it was Puerto Rico.

But yeah, you're right. Maybe it just came out wrong.

This world is really becoming the land of the obtuse. What is clear as day is no longer clear as day. It must be something else. Who are you going to believe? Me or your lying eyes? Effing ponderous.


But is he criticizing the people (Puerto Ricans) or the government that supports animal cruelty?

It might happen in the South, but it’s against the law.

It happens in Puerto Rico and it’s only recently been banned and they are fighting it.


No, they are fighting the banning of fighting with roosters.


Understood.

I don’t want to speak for Adkindo.

I could see a possible benign correlation between animal cruelty, coc.kfighting and dogfighting all lumped together.
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PostPosted: Thu Jan 09, 2020 3:34 pm    Post subject:

LongBeachPoly wrote:
Omar Little wrote:
LongBeachPoly wrote:
Heartburn wrote:
It happens in the south, too, where adkindo lives. He didn't refer to it as a southern practice though, did he? He made no mention of southerners being barbaric. Nope, it was Puerto Rico.

But yeah, you're right. Maybe it just came out wrong.

This world is really becoming the land of the obtuse. What is clear as day is no longer clear as day. It must be something else. Who are you going to believe? Me or your lying eyes? Effing ponderous.


But is he criticizing the people (Puerto Ricans) or the government that supports animal cruelty?

It might happen in the South, but it’s against the law.

It happens in Puerto Rico and it’s only recently been banned and they are fighting it.


No, they are fighting the banning of fighting with roosters.


Understood.

I don’t want to speak for Adkindo.

I could see a possible benign correlation between animal cruelty, coc.kfighting and dogfighting all lumped together.


So could I, but it requires one to sort of make some intentional or unintentional leaps to make a poke at the other.
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