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24Legend007
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 Posted: Mon Nov 18, 2019 6:35 am Post subject: |
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Once Lebron decided to come to the darkside this debate should of been dead. Its like Kobe is Vader and Lebron is Luke Skywalker. You cant go wrong in battle having either, they are one in the same now.
I guess you could say that Lbron will never be the greater Laker, its not physically possible. But I hope at the end of his tenure we are calling James the GOAT. |
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ringfinger
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| Posted: Mon Nov 18, 2019 6:39 am Post subject: |
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| LaLaLakeShow wrote: | | ringfinger wrote: | | Batguano wrote: | | george w kush wrote: | Who in their right mind would build a team around Kobe over Lebron? LeBron plays like Magic with Jordan like scoring and efficiency. Kobe on the other hand is nothing more than a scorer who beefed with Phil, Kupchak, Shaq, wanted other players shipped out, protested decision he didn't like by refusing to shoot the ball, demanded a trade and couldn't recruit anyone to play with him.
Funny stuff guys, keep the laughs coming... |
Who in their right mind would build a team around LeBron over Kobe? Kobe plays like Jordan with better shooting and ballhandling. LeBron on the other hand is nothing more than a Westbrook-esque statpadder who abandons ship when the going gets tough, loses more finals than he wins, has his posse take over NBA front offices and forces them to overpay mediocre players like KCP, JR Smith and Tristan Thompson simply because they're clients, alienates teammates like Bosh/Love by forcing them to play out of their comfort zones, tries to get the best coach he's ever had (Spoelstra) fired by passive-aggressively bumping him, and beefs with ownership and all-time greats like Pat Riley and Phil Jackson.
Funny stuff guys, keep the laughs coming... |
The Lakers organization just built their team around Lebron. Lol.
And Kobe is in full, and I do mean full, support of that. He even comes to the games to watch how this team built around Lebron plays.
But that’s well, game recognizes game I guess. Or, you don’t think Kobe is game??? |
The franchise isn’t choosing LeBron over Kobe.
Kobe and LeBron have no beef. But if you believe Kobe thinks for a second that LeBron is a better player than he was you’re fooling yourself 
Kobe is game, afterall. Right? |
That wasn’t the statement I was responding to though. The statement was who in their right mind would build a team around Lebron, and it’s happened 4 times and twice by the same team. And no, I don’t think Kobe thinks anyone is better than him. That belief was what made him .. him.
I know most people hate nuanced answers, but it really is a “it depends” for me. I can tell you for certain in Kobes prime I enjoyed watching him more than I enjoy watching Lebron play though. |
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george w kush
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| Posted: Mon Nov 18, 2019 7:40 am Post subject: |
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| Batguano wrote: | | george w kush wrote: | Who in their right mind would build a team around Kobe over Lebron? LeBron plays like Magic with Jordan like scoring and efficiency. Kobe on the other hand is nothing more than a scorer who beefed with Phil, Kupchak, Shaq, wanted other players shipped out, protested decision he didn't like by refusing to shoot the ball, demanded a trade and couldn't recruit anyone to play with him.
Funny stuff guys, keep the laughs coming... |
Who in their right mind would build a team around LeBron over Kobe? Kobe plays like Jordan with better shooting and ballhandling. LeBron on the other hand is nothing more than a Westbrook-esque statpadder who abandons ship when the going gets tough, loses more finals than he wins, has his posse take over NBA front offices and forces them to overpay mediocre players like KCP, JR Smith and Tristan Thompson simply because they're clients, alienates teammates like Bosh/Love by forcing them to play out of their comfort zones, tries to get the best coach he's ever had (Spoelstra) fired by passive-aggressively bumping him, and beefs with ownership and all-time greats like Pat Riley and Phil Jackson.
Funny stuff guys, keep the laughs coming... |
Nice try but that won't work:
1-Kobe is a Jordan wannabe without the efficiency or 6 finals MVPs. Saying is a better 'shooter' and 'ball handler'? How does that factor into production and efficiency? Which player has the higher career 3PT % or FG%? Someone put out a stat a while back which stated if Lebron missed his next 3300 field goal attempts, he would still have a better percententage than Kobe. Kyrie is a better ball handler then Lebron, so what? Lebron isn't even known as a 'scorer' like Kobe and will soon pass him up in the all-time scoring list.
2-Lakers literally just built a team around a 35 year old 'stat padding' Lebron who is playing at an MVP level and excellent defense. Kobe at the same age was washed up.
3-Lebron abandoning ship when the going gets tough? Remind me again, wasn't it Kobe that demanded a trade when he had Shaq traded and got stuck with Smush Parker? Lebron never once demanded a trade nor did he request teammates to be traded, unlike Kobe.
4-Alienated Love and Bosh by taking them out of thier comfort zone What comfort zone, losing a bunch of games year after year with the Wolves? Yeah I'm sure they're really complaining about their rings with Lebron.
BTW, here is a quote from Kevin Love himself on Lebron:
| Quote: | | "Playing with LeBron the last 4 years, there were times I'd go to the bench during a timeout and say to guys 'I think we're watching the best ever. This is wild.' That's just what he brings to the table every single night." |
5-So now bumping in a coach means you're trying to get them fired .
6-Beefing with all-time greats like Riley and Phil. Umm in regards to Riley, was this during his Heat run or after he left and Riley felt like an jilted ex GF? And funny you bring Phil into this, considering Phil tried trading Kobe off the Lakers.
Last edited by george w kush on Mon Nov 18, 2019 8:03 am; edited 6 times in total |
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Aeneas Hunter
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| Posted: Mon Nov 18, 2019 7:44 am Post subject: |
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| ringfinger wrote: | That wasn’t the statement I was responding to though. The statement was who in their right mind would build a team around Lebron, and it’s happened 4 times and twice by the same team. And no, I don’t think Kobe thinks anyone is better than him. That belief was what made him .. him.
I know most people hate nuanced answers, but it really is a “it depends” for me. I can tell you for certain in Kobes prime I enjoyed watching him more than I enjoy watching Lebron play though. |
Sure, there is a stylistic choice that underlies a lot of people's reactions to Kobe, Lebron, and others. To be honest, I found Kobe to be frustrating in his prime for the same reason that other people found him to be exhilarating. He took a lot of bad shots. He made a higher percentage of bad shots than other players, but it still wasn't a good percentage. Other than the hard cores, for whom Kobe could do no wrong, I'm sure everyone had a few moments of screaming at the TV because of Kobe. He was the kind of player where you had to take the good with the bad, and the good usually won by a wide margin.
As for who you would start a team with, I would say Lebron, but I'm not sure that it makes a difference for this sort of discussion. Guys like Kobe are harder to build around because they must be the focus of the team in order to be effective. I wouldn't downgrade Kobe or MJ because of this. |
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Metro2Staples
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| Posted: Mon Nov 18, 2019 9:41 am Post subject: |
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Robert Horry went undefeated, 7-0
I don't think 5-3 is all that great of a record, nor do I think "finals record" is determinative of your player ranking.
Where do Bron & Bryant rank in efficiency? I think I heard Bryant was well out of the top 100, and Bron is something ridiculous like Top 10.
| LaLaLakeShow wrote: | Kobe 5-2
LeBron 3-6 |
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LandsbergerRules
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Joined: 29 Aug 2004
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| Posted: Mon Nov 18, 2019 9:59 am Post subject: |
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| 24Legend007 wrote: | Once Lebron decided to come to the darkside this debate should of been dead. Its like Kobe is Vader and Lebron is Luke Skywalker. You cant go wrong in battle having either, they are one in the same now.
I guess you could say that Lbron will never be the greater Laker, its not physically possible. But I hope at the end of his tenure we are calling James the GOAT. |
As long as neither of em are Kylo Ren, we're good.
_________________
"Chick lived and breathed Lakers basketball…but he was also fair and objective and called every game the way it was played."
-from Chick: His Unpublished Memoirs and the Memories of Those Who Knew Him |
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ringfinger
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| Posted: Mon Nov 18, 2019 11:17 am Post subject: |
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| Metro2Staples wrote: | Robert Horry went undefeated, 7-0
I don't think 5-3 is all that great of a record, nor do I think "finals record" is determinative of your player ranking.
Where do Bron & Bryant rank in efficiency? I think I heard Bryant was well out of the top 100, and Bron is something ridiculous like Top 10.
| LaLaLakeShow wrote: | Kobe 5-2
LeBron 3-6 |
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Finals record comparisons are among the dumbest I have seen. If anything, at least, compare finals appearances rate. Even that is overly simpleton. |
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venturalakersfan
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| Posted: Mon Nov 18, 2019 11:23 am Post subject: |
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| ringfinger wrote: | | Metro2Staples wrote: | Robert Horry went undefeated, 7-0
I don't think 5-3 is all that great of a record, nor do I think "finals record" is determinative of your player ranking.
Where do Bron & Bryant rank in efficiency? I think I heard Bryant was well out of the top 100, and Bron is something ridiculous like Top 10.
| LaLaLakeShow wrote: | Kobe 5-2
LeBron 3-6 |
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Finals record comparisons are among the dumbest I have seen. If anything, at least, compare finals appearances rate. Even that is overly simpleton. |
Using team success to compare individual players is really dumb.
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RIP mom. 11-21-1933 to 6-14-2023. |
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LandsbergerRules
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| Posted: Mon Nov 18, 2019 11:25 am Post subject: |
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| venturalakersfan wrote: | | ringfinger wrote: | | Metro2Staples wrote: | Robert Horry went undefeated, 7-0
I don't think 5-3 is all that great of a record, nor do I think "finals record" is determinative of your player ranking.
Where do Bron & Bryant rank in efficiency? I think I heard Bryant was well out of the top 100, and Bron is something ridiculous like Top 10.
| LaLaLakeShow wrote: | Kobe 5-2
LeBron 3-6 |
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Finals record comparisons are among the dumbest I have seen. If anything, at least, compare finals appearances rate. Even that is overly simpleton. |
Using team success to compare individual players is really dumb. |
You calling Michael Jordan dumb? He compares rings all the time lol.
_________________
"Chick lived and breathed Lakers basketball…but he was also fair and objective and called every game the way it was played."
-from Chick: His Unpublished Memoirs and the Memories of Those Who Knew Him |
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ringfinger
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| Posted: Mon Nov 18, 2019 11:29 am Post subject: |
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| venturalakersfan wrote: | | ringfinger wrote: | | Metro2Staples wrote: | Robert Horry went undefeated, 7-0
I don't think 5-3 is all that great of a record, nor do I think "finals record" is determinative of your player ranking.
Where do Bron & Bryant rank in efficiency? I think I heard Bryant was well out of the top 100, and Bron is something ridiculous like Top 10.
| LaLaLakeShow wrote: | Kobe 5-2
LeBron 3-6 |
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Finals record comparisons are among the dumbest I have seen. If anything, at least, compare finals appearances rate. Even that is overly simpleton. |
Using team success to compare individual players is really dumb. |
Can’t disagree with you at all on that.
In fact, if you look a few pages back, I argued rings aren’t even all that correlative with skill. IMO.
Last edited by ringfinger on Mon Nov 18, 2019 11:33 am; edited 2 times in total |
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ringfinger
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| Posted: Mon Nov 18, 2019 11:30 am Post subject: |
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| LandsbergerRules wrote: | | venturalakersfan wrote: | | ringfinger wrote: | | Metro2Staples wrote: | Robert Horry went undefeated, 7-0
I don't think 5-3 is all that great of a record, nor do I think "finals record" is determinative of your player ranking.
Where do Bron & Bryant rank in efficiency? I think I heard Bryant was well out of the top 100, and Bron is something ridiculous like Top 10.
| LaLaLakeShow wrote: | Kobe 5-2
LeBron 3-6 |
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Finals record comparisons are among the dumbest I have seen. If anything, at least, compare finals appearances rate. Even that is overly simpleton. |
Using team success to compare individual players is really dumb. |
You calling Michael Jordan dumb? He compares rings all the time lol. |
Does he ever bring up Horry?
Doubt it. |
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LandsbergerRules
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| Posted: Mon Nov 18, 2019 11:51 am Post subject: |
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| ringfinger wrote: |
Does he ever bring up Horry?
Doubt it. |
Nah, he talks about All-Timers talentwise like Bron and Kob.
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"Chick lived and breathed Lakers basketball…but he was also fair and objective and called every game the way it was played."
-from Chick: His Unpublished Memoirs and the Memories of Those Who Knew Him |
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LaLaLakeShow
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| Posted: Mon Nov 18, 2019 11:56 am Post subject: |
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| ringfinger wrote: | | LaLaLakeShow wrote: | | ringfinger wrote: | | Batguano wrote: | | george w kush wrote: | Who in their right mind would build a team around Kobe over Lebron? LeBron plays like Magic with Jordan like scoring and efficiency. Kobe on the other hand is nothing more than a scorer who beefed with Phil, Kupchak, Shaq, wanted other players shipped out, protested decision he didn't like by refusing to shoot the ball, demanded a trade and couldn't recruit anyone to play with him.
Funny stuff guys, keep the laughs coming... |
Who in their right mind would build a team around LeBron over Kobe? Kobe plays like Jordan with better shooting and ballhandling. LeBron on the other hand is nothing more than a Westbrook-esque statpadder who abandons ship when the going gets tough, loses more finals than he wins, has his posse take over NBA front offices and forces them to overpay mediocre players like KCP, JR Smith and Tristan Thompson simply because they're clients, alienates teammates like Bosh/Love by forcing them to play out of their comfort zones, tries to get the best coach he's ever had (Spoelstra) fired by passive-aggressively bumping him, and beefs with ownership and all-time greats like Pat Riley and Phil Jackson.
Funny stuff guys, keep the laughs coming... |
The Lakers organization just built their team around Lebron. Lol.
And Kobe is in full, and I do mean full, support of that. He even comes to the games to watch how this team built around Lebron plays.
But that’s well, game recognizes game I guess. Or, you don’t think Kobe is game??? |
The franchise isn’t choosing LeBron over Kobe.
Kobe and LeBron have no beef. But if you believe Kobe thinks for a second that LeBron is a better player than he was you’re fooling yourself
Kobe is game, afterall. Right? |
That wasn’t the statement I was responding to though. The statement was who in their right mind would build a team around Lebron, and it’s happened 4 times and twice by the same team. And no, I don’t think Kobe thinks anyone is better than him. That belief was what made him .. him.
I know most people hate nuanced answers, but it really is a “it depends” for me. I can tell you for certain in Kobes prime I enjoyed watching him more than I enjoy watching Lebron play though. |
Same here.
Kobe had so many more drop your jaw moments than anyone I ever watched, no matter the team. |
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LaLaLakeShow
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| Posted: Mon Nov 18, 2019 11:57 am Post subject: |
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| george w kush wrote: | | Batguano wrote: | | george w kush wrote: | Who in their right mind would build a team around Kobe over Lebron? LeBron plays like Magic with Jordan like scoring and efficiency. Kobe on the other hand is nothing more than a scorer who beefed with Phil, Kupchak, Shaq, wanted other players shipped out, protested decision he didn't like by refusing to shoot the ball, demanded a trade and couldn't recruit anyone to play with him.
Funny stuff guys, keep the laughs coming... |
Who in their right mind would build a team around LeBron over Kobe? Kobe plays like Jordan with better shooting and ballhandling. LeBron on the other hand is nothing more than a Westbrook-esque statpadder who abandons ship when the going gets tough, loses more finals than he wins, has his posse take over NBA front offices and forces them to overpay mediocre players like KCP, JR Smith and Tristan Thompson simply because they're clients, alienates teammates like Bosh/Love by forcing them to play out of their comfort zones, tries to get the best coach he's ever had (Spoelstra) fired by passive-aggressively bumping him, and beefs with ownership and all-time greats like Pat Riley and Phil Jackson.
Funny stuff guys, keep the laughs coming... |
Nice try but that won't work:
1-Kobe is a Jordan wannabe without the efficiency or 6 finals MVPs. Saying is a better 'shooter' and 'ball handler'? How does that factor into production and efficiency? Which player has the higher career 3PT % or FG%? Someone put out a stat a while back which stated if Lebron missed his next 3300 field goal attempts, he would still have a better percententage than Kobe. Kyrie is a better ball handler then Lebron, so what? Lebron isn't even known as a 'scorer' like Kobe and will soon pass him up in the all-time scoring list.
2-Lakers literally just built a team around a 35 year old 'stat padding' Lebron who is playing at an MVP level and excellent defense. Kobe at the same age was washed up.
3-Lebron abandoning ship when the going gets tough? Remind me again, wasn't it Kobe that demanded a trade when he had Shaq traded and got stuck with Smush Parker? Lebron never once demanded a trade nor did he request teammates to be traded, unlike Kobe.
4-Alienated Love and Bosh by taking them out of thier comfort zone What comfort zone, losing a bunch of games year after year with the Wolves? Yeah I'm sure they're really complaining about their rings with Lebron.
BTW, here is a quote from Kevin Love himself on Lebron:
| Quote: | | "Playing with LeBron the last 4 years, there were times I'd go to the bench during a timeout and say to guys 'I think we're watching the best ever. This is wild.' That's just what he brings to the table every single night." |
5-So now bumping in a coach means you're trying to get them fired .
6-Beefing with all-time greats like Riley and Phil. Umm in regards to Riley, was this during his Heat run or after he left and Riley felt like an jilted ex GF? And funny you bring Phil into this, considering Phil tried trading Kobe off the Lakers. |
Wow....Lol |
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LaLaLakeShow
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| Posted: Mon Nov 18, 2019 12:03 pm Post subject: |
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| Metro2Staples wrote: | Robert Horry went undefeated, 7-0
I don't think 5-3 is all that great of a record, nor do I think "finals record" is determinative of your player ranking.
Where do Bron & Bryant rank in efficiency? I think I heard Bryant was well out of the top 100, and Bron is something ridiculous like Top 10.
| LaLaLakeShow wrote: | Kobe 5-2
LeBron 3-6 |
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I don’t know what kind of response you think you’re gonna get with a statement like that. I guess you think numbers and cherry picked stats tell the story when it comes to a player as rare as Kobe Bryant.
I’m starting to think you just never saw him play night in night out. If you had, these numbers you site wouldn’t really mean as much as you think they do.
And it’s a 5-2 record in the finals. Not 5-3. But that’s not a good number? Lol |
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ringfinger
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| Posted: Mon Nov 18, 2019 12:06 pm Post subject: |
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| LaLaLakeShow wrote: | | Metro2Staples wrote: | Robert Horry went undefeated, 7-0
I don't think 5-3 is all that great of a record, nor do I think "finals record" is determinative of your player ranking.
Where do Bron & Bryant rank in efficiency? I think I heard Bryant was well out of the top 100, and Bron is something ridiculous like Top 10.
| LaLaLakeShow wrote: | Kobe 5-2
LeBron 3-6 |
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I don’t know what kind of response you think you’re gonna get with a statement like that. I guess you think numbers and cherry picked stats tell the story when it comes to a player as rare as Kobe Bryant.
I’m starting to think you just never saw him play night in night out. If you had, these numbers you site wouldn’t really mean as much as you think they do.
And it’s a 5-2 record in the finals. Not 5-3. But that’s not a good number? Lol |
Almost every single post in this 50 page thread relies on cherry picked stats, quotes, and/or other information. On both sides.
That’s why I was trying to understand what “better” means before. |
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LaLaLakeShow
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| Posted: Mon Nov 18, 2019 12:18 pm Post subject: |
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| ringfinger wrote: | | LaLaLakeShow wrote: | | Metro2Staples wrote: | Robert Horry went undefeated, 7-0
I don't think 5-3 is all that great of a record, nor do I think "finals record" is determinative of your player ranking.
Where do Bron & Bryant rank in efficiency? I think I heard Bryant was well out of the top 100, and Bron is something ridiculous like Top 10.
| LaLaLakeShow wrote: | Kobe 5-2
LeBron 3-6 |
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I don’t know what kind of response you think you’re gonna get with a statement like that. I guess you think numbers and cherry picked stats tell the story when it comes to a player as rare as Kobe Bryant.
I’m starting to think you just never saw him play night in night out. If you had, these numbers you site wouldn’t really mean as much as you think they do.
And it’s a 5-2 record in the finals. Not 5-3. But that’s not a good number? Lol |
Almost every single post in this 50 page thread relies on cherry picked stats, quotes, and/or other information. On both sides.
That’s why I was trying to understand what “better” means before. |
I need Zero stats to hold or maintain my belief.
I watched both of these players play. It’s not even close. Kobe was far superior.
Let’s imagine, for a moment, that we could only observe these 2 players without ever being allowed to tally up these supposed prerequisite numbers.
Which player would jump out at you more? I honestly believe most would go with Kobe.
This doesn’t end the debate by itself but I Damn sure believe that it is discounted far too much when attempting to weigh the ounces of greatness and skill that separate the true legends of the game.
That’s just my take..but I think it’s a fair one. |
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kikanga
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| Posted: Mon Nov 18, 2019 12:24 pm Post subject: |
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Putting Robert Horry in the same sentence as Kobe and Bron is a joke.
Championships matter to the top 5-10 greatest players of all time. Because it's the only thing all of them wish they had more of. Name anybody on your top 5 or top 10 list. They'd all happily trade in some of their stats if it meant 1 more ring.
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kikanga
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| Posted: Mon Nov 18, 2019 12:26 pm Post subject: |
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You can't defend a ring chaser like Bron and say chips don't matter. If they didn't matter, he wouldn't be a ring chaser to begin with.
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LaLaLakeShow
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| Posted: Mon Nov 18, 2019 12:28 pm Post subject: |
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| kikanga wrote: | | You can't defend a ring chaser like Bron and say chips don't matter. If they didn't matter, he wouldn't be a ring chaser to begin with. |
“The Logic is Strong with this one” |
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drae
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ringfinger
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| Posted: Mon Nov 18, 2019 12:36 pm Post subject: |
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| kikanga wrote: | Putting Robert Horry in the same sentence as Kobe and Bron is a joke.
Championships matter to the top 5-10 greatest players of all time. Because it's the only thing all of them wish they had more of. Name anybody on your top 5 or top 10 list. They'd all happily trade in some of their stats if it meant 1 more ring. |
Who decides those 5-10?
And why not the 11th? What is so ... egregiously different from the 11th best player (which ever consensus guy that is) that he cannot possibly be mentioned in the same breath as the 10th best player?
The fact that you have to narrow the field using criteria other than rings, shows, that using rings is a poor way of measuring basketball skill. |
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LaLaLakeShow
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| Posted: Mon Nov 18, 2019 12:39 pm Post subject: |
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| ringfinger wrote: | | kikanga wrote: | Putting Robert Horry in the same sentence as Kobe and Bron is a joke.
Championships matter to the top 5-10 greatest players of all time. Because it's the only thing all of them wish they had more of. Name anybody on your top 5 or top 10 list. They'd all happily trade in some of their stats if it meant 1 more ring. |
Who decides those 5-10?
And why not the 11th? What is so ... egregiously different from the 11th best player (which ever consensus guy that is) that he cannot possibly be mentioned in the same breath as the 10th best player?
The fact that you have to narrow the field using criteria other than rings, shows, that using rings is a poor way of measuring basketball skill. |
Not everyone, even all time greats, has what it takes to bring home that trophy. It matters a ton |
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kikanga
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| Posted: Mon Nov 18, 2019 12:42 pm Post subject: |
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| ringfinger wrote: | | kikanga wrote: | Putting Robert Horry in the same sentence as Kobe and Bron is a joke.
Championships matter to the top 5-10 greatest players of all time. Because it's the only thing all of them wish they had more of. Name anybody on your top 5 or top 10 list. They'd all happily trade in some of their stats if it meant 1 more ring. |
Who decides those 5-10?
And why not the 11th? What is so ... egregiously different from the 11th best player (which ever consensus guy that is) that he cannot possibly be mentioned in the same breath as the 10th best player?
The fact that you have to narrow the field using criteria other than rings, shows, that using rings is a poor way of measuring basketball skill. |
I chose top 10 because even the greatest Kobe or LBJ hater in the world has both in their top 10.
Horry probably isn't even a top 100 player all time.
Applying the ring argument to Horry when we're talking Kobe vs. Bron. That ish is laughable.
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"Every hurt is a lesson, and every lesson makes you better”
Last edited by kikanga on Mon Nov 18, 2019 12:43 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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LaLaLakeShow
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| Posted: Mon Nov 18, 2019 12:42 pm Post subject: |
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This thread is like Kobe Bryant, himself.
It’s viscous, unapologetic and it’s a winner  |
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