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Mike@LG
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Joined: 10 Apr 2001
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Location: Orange County, CA
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 Posted: Sat Nov 02, 2019 11:45 am Post subject: |
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| jonnybravo wrote: | | Mike@LG wrote: | | jonnybravo wrote: | | Mike@LG wrote: | | Cutheon wrote: | | Randle driving that struggle bus right now. 5 assists to 4.6 turnovers a game? woof. virtually no defensive presence. bleh shooting. Welcome to the Knicks, Jules. Get that paper, because that's all you'll ever get at this rate... |
1:1 A/TO is the running average for a frontcourt player. |
Not one with 5+ assists. |
Hence, running average for that position. |
Right but I should have further explained my point. If a big is averaging high assists, it should mean he's good enough of a playmaker to be put in that position. All the high assists bigs have better than that ratio...most are significantly better. If you're a big averaging high assist with that ratio, you probably shouldn't be playmaking anywhere near that frequency. |
I understand that explanation.
But I've also seen the Knicks' roster construction. Imagine, he's a better playmaker than Ntlikina, better pace than Dennis Smith Jr., and the entire team is PFs. Elfrid Payton just came up recently.
So no, it's not always possible to have "high assists" when the roster construction totally blows, lacks shooters, and good decision playmakers alike. Randle has had 1:1 or greater for most of his career. No need to blame him alone for those TOs and utilization.
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jonnybravo
Retired Number
Joined: 21 Sep 2007
Posts: 30786
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| Posted: Sat Nov 02, 2019 12:16 pm Post subject: |
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| Mike@LG wrote: | | jonnybravo wrote: | | Mike@LG wrote: | | jonnybravo wrote: | | Mike@LG wrote: | | Cutheon wrote: | | Randle driving that struggle bus right now. 5 assists to 4.6 turnovers a game? woof. virtually no defensive presence. bleh shooting. Welcome to the Knicks, Jules. Get that paper, because that's all you'll ever get at this rate... |
1:1 A/TO is the running average for a frontcourt player. |
Not one with 5+ assists. |
Hence, running average for that position. |
Right but I should have further explained my point. If a big is averaging high assists, it should mean he's good enough of a playmaker to be put in that position. All the high assists bigs have better than that ratio...most are significantly better. If you're a big averaging high assist with that ratio, you probably shouldn't be playmaking anywhere near that frequency. |
I understand that explanation.
But I've also seen the Knicks' roster construction. Imagine, he's a better playmaker than Ntlikina, better pace than Dennis Smith Jr., and the entire team is PFs. Elfrid Payton just came up recently.
So no, it's not always possible to have "high assists" when the roster construction totally blows, lacks shooters, and good decision playmakers alike. Randle has had 1:1 or greater for most of his career. No need to blame him alone for those TOs and utilization. |
Fair points. 
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lakersboy
Star Player
Joined: 20 Jul 2006
Posts: 8518
Location: Left coast
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| Posted: Tue Nov 05, 2019 8:43 am Post subject: |
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| realking24 wrote: | | methdxman wrote: | | Lonzo is still trash. |
He was the main one I wanted to keep. Maybe I was wrong lol. He is a gamer vs a stat Guy imo but time will tell. Don’t miss the dad drama though |
Trash scored 15, made 60% of his 10 shots, and made 43% of seven 3's on a night when Ingram was getting all the opportunities and scored 40. I really don't agree with your opinion, or your ability to judge accurately. |
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lakersboy
Star Player
Joined: 20 Jul 2006
Posts: 8518
Location: Left coast
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| Posted: Tue Nov 05, 2019 10:06 am Post subject: |
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| vanexelent wrote: | | Watched that Pelicans vs Mavs game tonight. We won the AD trade by a mile. Those guys are not special players. |
A mile? Davis is scoring 28.5. One of the 7 assets they traded, Ingram averages 25.9 ( lowered after he left 1 game with an injury), is a reliable and valuable scorer and defender. 6 other assets were traded, none them fully matured, 4 of them draft picks. The Lakers will be fortunate if they can say they didn't lose the trade by a mile when all the assets are factored after picks become players.
The New Orleans Jazz thought they won a trade by a mile when they acquired Gail Goodrich for a draft pick down the road that nobody cared about. The pick was Magic Johnson. Cleveland thought the same thing after acquiring Don Ford for a worthless pick that turned into a Worthy guy. It's foolish to judge with limited information during the 2nd game of the season. |
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BadGuy
Star Player
Joined: 13 May 2008
Posts: 3629
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| Posted: Tue Nov 05, 2019 10:13 am Post subject: |
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| lakersboy wrote: | | vanexelent wrote: | | Watched that Pelicans vs Mavs game tonight. We won the AD trade by a mile. Those guys are not special players. |
A mile? Davis is scoring 28.5. One of the 7 assets they traded, Ingram averages 25.9 ( lowered after he left 1 game with an injury), is a reliable and valuable scorer and defender. 6 other assets were traded, none them fully matured, 4 of them draft picks. The Lakers will be fortunate if they can say they didn't lose the trade by a mile when all the assets are factored after picks become players.
The New Orleans Jazz thought they won a trade by a mile when they acquired Gail Goodrich for a draft pick down the road that nobody cared about. The pick was Magic Johnson. Cleveland thought the same thing after acquiring Don Ford for a worthless pick that turned into a Worthy guy. It's foolish to judge with limited information during the 2nd game of the season. |
Saying we won the trade by a mile is laughable and delusional (obviously fueled by confirmation bias) at this point. |
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Laker_Dynasty_01
Star Player
Joined: 06 Jun 2001
Posts: 1703
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| Posted: Tue Nov 05, 2019 1:55 pm Post subject: |
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| BadGuy wrote: | | lakersboy wrote: | | vanexelent wrote: | | Watched that Pelicans vs Mavs game tonight. We won the AD trade by a mile. Those guys are not special players. |
A mile? Davis is scoring 28.5. One of the 7 assets they traded, Ingram averages 25.9 ( lowered after he left 1 game with an injury), is a reliable and valuable scorer and defender. 6 other assets were traded, none them fully matured, 4 of them draft picks. The Lakers will be fortunate if they can say they didn't lose the trade by a mile when all the assets are factored after picks become players.
The New Orleans Jazz thought they won a trade by a mile when they acquired Gail Goodrich for a draft pick down the road that nobody cared about. The pick was Magic Johnson. Cleveland thought the same thing after acquiring Don Ford for a worthless pick that turned into a Worthy guy. It's foolish to judge with limited information during the 2nd game of the season. |
Saying we won the trade by a mile is laughable and delusional (obviously fueled by confirmation bias) at this point. |
The trade gives us a realistic championship window, and prevented the Celtics from waiting until July 1st, then making their move for AD. Ainge could offer Tatum, Smart, Baynes, and Memphis' 2020 pick, plus their entire draft future and anyone else Griffin wanted from the solid 2019 draft haul. Yes, Danny Ainge said Tatum was off the table. Yet, the only truth Danny ever told was, he's a liar.
With Davis, Ainge is more likely to make a solid offer for Horford, and Horford would consider any decent offer to pair up with a better fit than Embiid. If needed, Theis could be unloaded in the Kemba deal. Sixers would probably go for Danny Green and Redick with their capspace after losing Butler, but Boston would be the best in the East.
After sweeping the Clippers in the Finals, AD wouldn't be going anywhere, and LA would be looking to the XFL for it's next professional championship.
So, yes, the trade was a win. It may yet be a bigger win for the Pelicans, but it's a win. |
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PayasoLoco
Franchise Player
Joined: 07 Jul 2001
Posts: 16663
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| Posted: Tue Nov 05, 2019 1:57 pm Post subject: |
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| If we didnt have terrible coaching and player development and actually maximized our players potential maybe we wouldnt have had to give up so much to get AD |
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LakersRGolden
Star Player
Joined: 13 Jan 2002
Posts: 7937
Location: Lake Forest
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| Posted: Tue Nov 05, 2019 3:14 pm Post subject: |
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| BadGuy wrote: | | lakersboy wrote: | | vanexelent wrote: | | Watched that Pelicans vs Mavs game tonight. We won the AD trade by a mile. Those guys are not special players. |
A mile? Davis is scoring 28.5. One of the 7 assets they traded, Ingram averages 25.9 ( lowered after he left 1 game with an injury), is a reliable and valuable scorer and defender. 6 other assets were traded, none them fully matured, 4 of them draft picks. The Lakers will be fortunate if they can say they didn't lose the trade by a mile when all the assets are factored after picks become players.
The New Orleans Jazz thought they won a trade by a mile when they acquired Gail Goodrich for a draft pick down the road that nobody cared about. The pick was Magic Johnson. Cleveland thought the same thing after acquiring Don Ford for a worthless pick that turned into a Worthy guy. It's foolish to judge with limited information during the 2nd game of the season. |
Saying we won the trade by a mile is laughable and delusional (obviously fueled by confirmation bias) at this point. |
Both teams could actually win this trade.
Possible scenario: No trade and neither team wins a chip, but with the Trade, We win 2 and then Zion + the youngin's win 2 chips. Didn't both teams win?
Who knows what the future will be. 'Course everyone will be crying during the Pel's 2 because they come later. |
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jonnybravo
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Joined: 21 Sep 2007
Posts: 30786
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| Posted: Tue Nov 05, 2019 7:50 pm Post subject: |
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Did you guys see Zo roll his ankles twice in 3 seconds? I really feel bad for the kid. Can't seem to catch a break.
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governator
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Joined: 28 Jan 2006
Posts: 25151
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| Posted: Tue Nov 05, 2019 8:48 pm Post subject: |
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| Fair trade, so worth it to be a championship contender again |
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Mege
Starting Rotation
Joined: 11 Apr 2005
Posts: 522
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| Posted: Wed Nov 06, 2019 1:18 pm Post subject: |
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| jonnybravo wrote: | | Did you guys see Zo roll his ankles twice in 3 seconds? I really feel bad for the kid. Can't seem to catch a break. |
Yeah, it looks like he was having issues just pulling his toes up so he could take his next step. |
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SuperboyReformed
Star Player
Joined: 07 Oct 2012
Posts: 4083
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| Posted: Wed Nov 06, 2019 9:47 pm Post subject: |
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| lakersboy wrote: | | vanexelent wrote: | | Watched that Pelicans vs Mavs game tonight. We won the AD trade by a mile. Those guys are not special players. |
A mile? Davis is scoring 28.5. One of the 7 assets they traded, Ingram averages 25.9 ( lowered after he left 1 game with an injury), is a reliable and valuable scorer and defender. 6 other assets were traded, none them fully matured, 4 of them draft picks. The Lakers will be fortunate if they can say they didn't lose the trade by a mile when all the assets are factored after picks become players.
The New Orleans Jazz thought they won a trade by a mile when they acquired Gail Goodrich for a draft pick down the road that nobody cared about. The pick was Magic Johnson. Cleveland thought the same thing after acquiring Don Ford for a worthless pick that turned into a Worthy guy. It's foolish to judge with limited information during the 2nd game of the season. |
nice. good to read. |
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Goldenwest
Star Player
Joined: 28 Nov 2009
Posts: 2810
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| Posted: Wed Nov 06, 2019 11:02 pm Post subject: |
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If the lakers win the chip this year it will have been worth it, even if the assets we gave up turn out better then we thought they’d be. Although I don’t think any of the players we gave up will be of the level of AD. Ingram is on the slow and deliberate side. and it doesn’t say that much to be a 26 ppg scorer on a lousy team,
Ball has serious issues with shooting never mind the injuries and Hart is a good player not much more |
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activeverb
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Joined: 17 Jun 2006
Posts: 37470
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| Posted: Thu Nov 07, 2019 12:42 pm Post subject: |
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| BadGuy wrote: | | lakersboy wrote: | | vanexelent wrote: | | Watched that Pelicans vs Mavs game tonight. We won the AD trade by a mile. Those guys are not special players. |
A mile? Davis is scoring 28.5. One of the 7 assets they traded, Ingram averages 25.9 ( lowered after he left 1 game with an injury), is a reliable and valuable scorer and defender. 6 other assets were traded, none them fully matured, 4 of them draft picks. The Lakers will be fortunate if they can say they didn't lose the trade by a mile when all the assets are factored after picks become players.
The New Orleans Jazz thought they won a trade by a mile when they acquired Gail Goodrich for a draft pick down the road that nobody cared about. The pick was Magic Johnson. Cleveland thought the same thing after acquiring Don Ford for a worthless pick that turned into a Worthy guy. It's foolish to judge with limited information during the 2nd game of the season. |
Saying we won the trade by a mile is laughable and delusional (obviously fueled by confirmation bias) at this point. |
It's not uncommon for the perception of a trade to change many times over the years depending on how the players careers pan out, how the teams do, whether the players stay with the team they were traded to.
At this point, I'd say it looks like a good trade for both sides. How it will look 1 year, 5 years or 10 years from now is anyone's guess. |
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Theseus
Franchise Player
Joined: 15 Dec 2007
Posts: 14318
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| Posted: Fri Nov 08, 2019 1:33 pm Post subject: |
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Zu with 15/13 (9 off)/2 blks/1 steal in 19 minutes.
Did we win the Muscala trade? |
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drae
Franchise Player
Joined: 13 Nov 2018
Posts: 16145
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| Posted: Fri Nov 08, 2019 3:39 pm Post subject: |
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| Theseus wrote: | Zu with 15/13 (9 off)/2 blks/1 steal in 19 minutes.
Did we win the Muscala trade? |
Oh nice! 
I watched the 3rd and 4th quarters of the Portland game, and Zu was in most of the third I think, and I was thinking he didn't look THAT great.
Then you posted that stat line and I'm like ... WHAT?!  |
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greek laker
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Joined: 06 Dec 2017
Posts: 778
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| Posted: Fri Nov 08, 2019 7:36 pm Post subject: |
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Right now New York, Golden state and New Orleans have the worst records of nba and these teams are led by our castaways. I know its not their fault
but we cant deny mathematics all the time. |
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venturalakersfan
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Joined: 14 Apr 2001
Posts: 144520
Location: The Gold Coast
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| Posted: Sat Nov 09, 2019 12:11 pm Post subject: |
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| Theseus wrote: | Zu with 15/13 (9 off)/2 blks/1 steal in 19 minutes.
Did we win the Muscala trade? |
That was about as dumb as dumb can get.
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venturalakersfan
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Joined: 14 Apr 2001
Posts: 144520
Location: The Gold Coast
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| Posted: Sat Nov 09, 2019 12:12 pm Post subject: |
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| greek laker wrote: | Right now New York, Golden state and New Orleans have the worst records of nba and these teams are led by our castaways. I know its not their fault
but we cant deny mathematics all the time. |
But we can build false arguments, right?
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RIP mom. 11-21-1933 to 6-14-2023. |
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greek laker
Starting Rotation
Joined: 06 Dec 2017
Posts: 778
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| Posted: Sat Nov 09, 2019 1:21 pm Post subject: |
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| venturalakersfan wrote: | | greek laker wrote: | Right now New York, Golden state and New Orleans have the worst records of nba and these teams are led by our castaways. I know its not their fault
but we cant deny mathematics all the time. |
But we can build false arguments, right? |
i dont know yet if this is a false argument but at some certain point
they have to show some wins. I cannot be that impressed when we are at 7-1 and dlo shots 40 times. |
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Fallout
Star Player
Joined: 03 Jun 2002
Posts: 7626
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| Posted: Sat Nov 09, 2019 1:43 pm Post subject: |
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While I'm glad the ex-Lakers are doing well, the FO will do the AD trade 100 out of 100 times. Proof? Lakers are #1 in the league right now.
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governator
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Joined: 28 Jan 2006
Posts: 25151
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| Posted: Sat Nov 09, 2019 1:52 pm Post subject: |
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| Fallout wrote: | | While I'm glad the ex-Lakers are doing well, the FO will do the AD trade 100 out of 100 times. Proof? Lakers are #1 in the league right now. |
How many here would not do the trade looking at how the players involved are performing? |
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yinoma2001
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Joined: 19 Jun 2010
Posts: 119487
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| Posted: Sat Nov 09, 2019 1:54 pm Post subject: |
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| Fallout wrote: | | While I'm glad the ex-Lakers are doing well, the FO will do the AD trade 100 out of 100 times. Proof? Lakers are #1 in the league right now. |
Define “well.”
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SocalDevin
Star Player
Joined: 26 May 2016
Posts: 7825
Location: Long Beach
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| Posted: Sat Nov 09, 2019 2:14 pm Post subject: |
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| yinoma2001 wrote: | | Fallout wrote: | | While I'm glad the ex-Lakers are doing well, the FO will do the AD trade 100 out of 100 times. Proof? Lakers are #1 in the league right now. |
Define “well.” |
See Ingram's data for "well".. |
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mad55557777
Franchise Player
Joined: 29 Jun 2005
Posts: 23612
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| Posted: Sat Nov 09, 2019 8:13 pm Post subject: |
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The Lakers draft team has been great.
DLo
BI
JR
Hart
Ball
Zu
Clarkson |
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