|
| View previous topic :: View next topic |
| Author |
Message |
Thugnomoe
Franchise Player
Joined: 19 Jul 2005
Posts: 14660
Location: unfortunately not Los Angeles anymore
|
 Posted: Tue Oct 15, 2019 10:49 pm Post subject: |
|
|
virtue signaling is a legit term.. and there are a lot of famous people who do it..they're probably the biggest culprits of virtue signaling because they have the most to gain.. that said..
I don't think Lebron is guilty of virtue signaling.. He's put his money where his mouth is. i swear...He's done more for Cleveland and Akron than any politician or elected official.. started the school, tons of charity, hell..the economy of Cleveland was based on him.. |
|
| Back to top |
|
 |
vanexelent
Retired Number
Joined: 17 May 2005
Posts: 30081
|
| Posted: Wed Oct 16, 2019 1:08 am Post subject: |
|
|
https://www.espn.com/nba/story/_/id/27852687/inside-lebron-james-adam-silver-make-break-moments-china
| Quote: |
Silver opened the floor. James raised his hand.
His question was related to Morey -- and the commissioner's handling of the Rockets' GM. James, to paraphrase, told Silver that he knew that if a player caused the same type of uproar with something he said or tweeted, the player wouldn't be able to skate on it. There would be some type of repercussion. So, James wanted to know, what was Silver going to do about it in Morey's case?
Silver pushed back, reminding the players that the league never doled out discipline when they publicly criticized President Donald Trump. Morey was exercising the same liberty when he challenged China. Regardless of the financial fallout of one versus the other, that's not what should matter. Silver might have disliked the ramifications of Morey's tweet, but he would defend the right to say it.[ |
Last edited by vanexelent on Wed Oct 16, 2019 5:44 am; edited 1 time in total |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
LongBeachPoly
Franchise Player
Joined: 14 Jul 2012
Posts: 16137
|
| Posted: Wed Oct 16, 2019 4:14 am Post subject: |
|
|
[quote="vanexelent"]https://www.espn.com/nba/story/_/id/27852687/inside-lebron-james-adam-silver-make-break-moments-china
| Quote: |
Silver opened the floor. James raised his hand.
His question was related to Morey -- and the commissioner's handling of the Rockets' GM. James, to paraphrase, told Silver that he knew that if a player caused the same type of uproar with something he said or tweeted, the player wouldn't be able to skate on it. There would be some type of repercussion. So, James wanted to know, what was Silver going to do about it in Morey's case?
Silver pushed back, reminding the players that the league never doled out discipline when they publicly criticized President Donald Trump. Morey was exercising the same liberty when he challenged China. Regardless of the financial fallout of one versus the other, that's not what should matter. Silver might have disliked the ramifications of Morey's tweet, but he would defend the right to say it.[/quote] |
Bingo |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
LongBeachPoly
Franchise Player
Joined: 14 Jul 2012
Posts: 16137
|
| Posted: Wed Oct 16, 2019 4:39 am Post subject: |
|
|
| kikanga wrote: | | LongBeachPoly wrote: |
Like you said, people who live in glass houses can't throw stones.
So pretty much, you want no one to ever say anything. Which is the world you strive for.
|
You should find someone who said the bolded and debate them. Because I never said that. You keep adding 10-20% onto what I'm saying, and debating that. And I'm not here to argue for what you think I'm saying. I'm here telling you what I'm actually saying. |
| kikanga wrote: | | I just don't personally like throwing stones if I live in a glass house. |
| kikanga wrote: | | If LBJ is a hypocrite so are all the people who are acting holier than though while criticizing him on their Iphone while wearing Nikes. |
Let me rephrase then, everyone who wears Nikes or owns an iphone are holier than thou hypocrites and lose the right to criticize.
Did I get it right this time?
Considering how long the iphone and Nikes have been out, that might encompass the entire US population?
I'm guessing 90% of the US population has owned an iphone or a pair of Nikes in their life? So 90% of the US population is exempt from criticizing on this topic?
And since you didn't specify how a person obtained the iphone or Nikes, maybe if you give your child an iphone or a pair of Nikes, you have now made them hypocrites for life and now they too are exempted from criticizing on this topic (or maybe just any topic that involves hypocrisy? Who knows? The rules here are not clear.) |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
BigGameHames
Star Player
Joined: 24 May 2015
Posts: 7982
|
| Posted: Wed Oct 16, 2019 5:05 am Post subject: |
|
|
| 4stargeneralbulldog wrote: | | audioaxes wrote: | I didnt expect Lebron to lead some kind of pro-Hong Kong movement within the NBA as some wanted as I dont expect anyone to be the moral authority on everything, especially on manners outside of their nation.
But Im at a loss to why he even said anything if thats what he felt. He had an entire week to have his PR/business team come up with a calculated response to this issue and this was what he came with? And he says it just as the whole issue was starting to blow over? I thought he was much smarter than that. |
With all joking aside from my previous posts, I think this is a brilliant move by Lebron. With America's ADD news cycle, this will be completely forgotten in a year's time and he will suffer a hit in America only in the short term, but for the long term in China, they won't forget that he in a way publicly supported the Chinese government. His access to the Chinese market and business opportunities in China is pretty much assured for the long term. Take for example, the Chinese government has a quota to how many foreign films are released in China, this pretty much assures that Space Jam 2 is one of those films, the Chinese government won't forget that he supported them.
And no offense to anyone here, but if Lebron manages to bring a title for this upcoming season, Lakers fans won't even care about this situation come June when the parade is in Figueroa. Just like The Decision is almost completely forgotten by now. Most people wont' even remember Lebron for making these comments a year from now, that's just the nature of our ADD society and news coverage. |
I don’t think you are wrong and it may be brilliant from a business perspective but it also shows the complete hypocrisy in a lot of what he claims stand for. Hopefully people realize this next time he talks about something other than basketball but I suspect the ADD society, as you put it, won’t remember this in a not so distant future. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Aeneas Hunter
Retired Number
Joined: 12 Jul 2005
Posts: 31763
|
| Posted: Wed Oct 16, 2019 6:27 am Post subject: |
|
|
| vanexelent wrote: | https://www.espn.com/nba/story/_/id/27852687/inside-lebron-james-adam-silver-make-break-moments-china
| Quote: |
Silver opened the floor. James raised his hand.
His question was related to Morey -- and the commissioner's handling of the Rockets' GM. James, to paraphrase, told Silver that he knew that if a player caused the same type of uproar with something he said or tweeted, the player wouldn't be able to skate on it. There would be some type of repercussion. So, James wanted to know, what was Silver going to do about it in Morey's case?
Silver pushed back, reminding the players that the league never doled out discipline when they publicly criticized President Donald Trump. Morey was exercising the same liberty when he challenged China. Regardless of the financial fallout of one versus the other, that's not what should matter. Silver might have disliked the ramifications of Morey's tweet, but he would defend the right to say it.[ |
|
Okay, but let's include the next part, which is germane to this thread:
| Quote: | But James wasn't finished.
Morey wasn't there to answer questions, he countered. Silver hadn't spoken to the media in China, either. Why would this fall on the players to address?
James told the room that it was too much for the players to take on in that moment -- to explain a complicated issue with racial, socioeconomic and geopolitical layers while visitors in China. It was time to follow the league's lead.
"Obviously, when he speaks up, people pay attention," a Nets source told ESPN.
Kyrie Irving, according to sources who were in the room, questioned whether it was worth playing the games in such a charged environment. He said he was there to play basketball games, and if a requirement for those games was dealing with the fallout Morey's tweet created, he would rather not play at all.
After about 30 minutes, Silver and others exited the room to allow for a players-only meeting. Once the others were gone, the players worked to find a consensus. James told the room that he wanted both teams in total agreement on how they would approach the rest of the trip. His instinct was to shield his colleagues from a nearly impossible public relations chasm.
"It's always a responsibility with me as far as players, a protection for the players," James said Monday. "That's always [on my mind]. I never speak for just me, things that just benefit me. I try to be educated as much as I can and speak from a pure heart of how can I protect not only me, but protect the players as well in that situation." |
As I said before, he has a point. Morey ran his mouth, but it was the players who were on the front line for the fallout. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
venturalakersfan
Retired Number
Joined: 14 Apr 2001
Posts: 144462
Location: The Gold Coast
|
| Posted: Wed Oct 16, 2019 6:32 am Post subject: |
|
|
| Aeneas Hunter wrote: | | vanexelent wrote: | https://www.espn.com/nba/story/_/id/27852687/inside-lebron-james-adam-silver-make-break-moments-china
| Quote: |
Silver opened the floor. James raised his hand.
His question was related to Morey -- and the commissioner's handling of the Rockets' GM. James, to paraphrase, told Silver that he knew that if a player caused the same type of uproar with something he said or tweeted, the player wouldn't be able to skate on it. There would be some type of repercussion. So, James wanted to know, what was Silver going to do about it in Morey's case?
Silver pushed back, reminding the players that the league never doled out discipline when they publicly criticized President Donald Trump. Morey was exercising the same liberty when he challenged China. Regardless of the financial fallout of one versus the other, that's not what should matter. Silver might have disliked the ramifications of Morey's tweet, but he would defend the right to say it.[ |
|
Okay, but let's include the next part, which is germane to this thread:
| Quote: | But James wasn't finished.
Morey wasn't there to answer questions, he countered. Silver hadn't spoken to the media in China, either. Why would this fall on the players to address?
James told the room that it was too much for the players to take on in that moment -- to explain a complicated issue with racial, socioeconomic and geopolitical layers while visitors in China. It was time to follow the league's lead.
"Obviously, when he speaks up, people pay attention," a Nets source told ESPN.
Kyrie Irving, according to sources who were in the room, questioned whether it was worth playing the games in such a charged environment. He said he was there to play basketball games, and if a requirement for those games was dealing with the fallout Morey's tweet created, he would rather not play at all.
After about 30 minutes, Silver and others exited the room to allow for a players-only meeting. Once the others were gone, the players worked to find a consensus. James told the room that he wanted both teams in total agreement on how they would approach the rest of the trip. His instinct was to shield his colleagues from a nearly impossible public relations chasm.
"It's always a responsibility with me as far as players, a protection for the players," James said Monday. "That's always [on my mind]. I never speak for just me, things that just benefit me. I try to be educated as much as I can and speak from a pure heart of how can I protect not only me, but protect the players as well in that situation." |
As I said before, he has a point. Morey ran his mouth, but it was the players who were on the front line for the fallout. |
Cowards
_________________
RIP mom. 11-21-1933 to 6-14-2023. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
vanexelent
Retired Number
Joined: 17 May 2005
Posts: 30081
|
| Posted: Wed Oct 16, 2019 6:36 am Post subject: |
|
|
| Aeneas Hunter wrote: | | vanexelent wrote: | https://www.espn.com/nba/story/_/id/27852687/inside-lebron-james-adam-silver-make-break-moments-china
| Quote: |
Silver opened the floor. James raised his hand.
His question was related to Morey -- and the commissioner's handling of the Rockets' GM. James, to paraphrase, told Silver that he knew that if a player caused the same type of uproar with something he said or tweeted, the player wouldn't be able to skate on it. There would be some type of repercussion. So, James wanted to know, what was Silver going to do about it in Morey's case?
Silver pushed back, reminding the players that the league never doled out discipline when they publicly criticized President Donald Trump. Morey was exercising the same liberty when he challenged China. Regardless of the financial fallout of one versus the other, that's not what should matter. Silver might have disliked the ramifications of Morey's tweet, but he would defend the right to say it.[ |
|
Okay, but let's include the next part, which is germane to this thread:
| Quote: | But James wasn't finished.
Morey wasn't there to answer questions, he countered. Silver hadn't spoken to the media in China, either. Why would this fall on the players to address?
James told the room that it was too much for the players to take on in that moment -- to explain a complicated issue with racial, socioeconomic and geopolitical layers while visitors in China. It was time to follow the league's lead.
"Obviously, when he speaks up, people pay attention," a Nets source told ESPN.
Kyrie Irving, according to sources who were in the room, questioned whether it was worth playing the games in such a charged environment. He said he was there to play basketball games, and if a requirement for those games was dealing with the fallout Morey's tweet created, he would rather not play at all.
After about 30 minutes, Silver and others exited the room to allow for a players-only meeting. Once the others were gone, the players worked to find a consensus. James told the room that he wanted both teams in total agreement on how they would approach the rest of the trip. His instinct was to shield his colleagues from a nearly impossible public relations chasm.
"It's always a responsibility with me as far as players, a protection for the players," James said Monday. "That's always [on my mind]. I never speak for just me, things that just benefit me. I try to be educated as much as I can and speak from a pure heart of how can I protect not only me, but protect the players as well in that situation." |
As I said before, he has a point. Morey ran his mouth, but it was the players who were on the front line for the fallout. |
Oh, no doubt the players were left holding the bag while Morey retreated from Twitter and wasn't even present in China.
But Lebron inquiring about the league disciplining Morey for speaking out is what is puzzling, coming from Lebron. Silver had the right response. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
ContagiousInspiration
Franchise Player
Joined: 07 May 2014
Posts: 13823
Location: Boulder ;)
|
| Posted: Wed Oct 16, 2019 6:53 am Post subject: |
|
|
It's too bad China didn't get body slammed by The World for THEIR reaction
If Silver was Gold he wouldve called off the games and brought all NBA employees back immediately
Why? You cannot allow them to gain even more power
| Quote: | | In 2019, China's population stands at 1.417 billion, the largest of any country in the world. According to the 2010 census, 91.51% of the population was Han Chinese, and 8.49% were minorities. |
Their reaction was that of an extremely guilty person. So over the top offended it seemed like they'd nuke NBA headquarters if allowed
What's next?
Some people point that Lam has removed the extradition bill. Uh, anyone who took that long and forced all those people to risk their.lives in the streets protesting CAN'T be trusted.
Never forget those protests. These people don't want to be invaded from within with mainland laws
*If Xi would've suXided in Hong Kong maybe Trump would've sold out US support for Taiwan?
Just be Thankful Chinese imperialism has been mostly nonviolent |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
yinoma2001
Retired Number
Joined: 19 Jun 2010
Posts: 119487
|
| Posted: Wed Oct 16, 2019 7:12 am Post subject: |
|
|
I remember studying poli sci in the 1990s, the prevailing theories were that democracy would use capitalist incentives to change authoritarian/communist country behaviors.
Fast forward to 2019, and the same authoritarian/communist countries are using capitalistic/consumeristic means to threaten or influence democratic/capitalist countries. This is a disturbing trend that will likely continue, especially under the current administration.
Has our own US government said a peep about Hong Kong?
_________________
From 2-10 to the Western Conference Finals |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
lakersken80
Retired Number
Joined: 12 Aug 2009
Posts: 38780
|
| Posted: Wed Oct 16, 2019 7:15 am Post subject: |
|
|
| That is correct, the communists learned from the fall of the Soviet Union and used capitalism against us. While the free world was celebrating the downfall of communism, little did they know that they would regroup and get their revenge. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
adkindo
Retired Number
Joined: 16 Jun 2005
Posts: 40345
Location: Dirty South
|
| Posted: Wed Oct 16, 2019 7:31 am Post subject: |
|
|
| Thugnomoe wrote: | | adkindo wrote: | I have found it interesting because I kind of knew how it would play out. Here is how I view the situation and how we got here....and why Lebron put himself in this no win position.
At some point we began to conflate and assign courage and bravery to people that simply said things we agreed with or supported. Lebron and a few other NBA players have received and soaked up much love from the mainstream and NBA media in recent years for taking positions on political and societal issues. They have been labeled as brave and a new kind of athlete. The problem is their positions were often very aligned with the demographic they sell to and the media that covers them. Sure they did not make everyone happy, but the personal benefits received from taking the positions far outweighed the very small group that may have not agreed with them taking positions.
Very few athletes and entertainers have actually taken brave or courageous public positions in recent decades. Positions that actually could have a negative impact on their career and bank account....or even their safety. I think Enes Kanter has been the most recent, and before him maybe the Dixie Chicks? Again, I do not think it is their responsibility to comment on political issues, although it is clearly their right.
Lebron has never been brave or courageous in his public positions, but his people have pushed hard on that narrative. He has also routinely spoken out when he clearly lacked a full understanding of the issue. He picks low hanging fruit like gun violence and the NCAA. Maybe next year he will come out against Cancer and (bleep) Roaches. The China issue was the first time he was put in a place that if he took a position, there clearly would downside either way, and he basically told Morey to "shut up and dribble". |
I agree with your take on athletes picking low hanging fruit that they mostly lack understanding of... solid take..
I think Lebron meant to tell Morey.. "don't say crap about China right before my team is about to board a plane and spend a week there."
rather than "shut up and dribble"
which I don't think Lebron's wrong. I just think he picked his words poorly. |
and maybe your understanding is correct and my initial understanding was not correct....but that just highlights the the massive downside to taking positions on such complex issues. People will misunderstand...people will view it through their own agenda driven lenses, etc. etc.
I also did not like that he claimed Morey was not fully educated on the topic because I am confident that Lebron is not either. It is an extremely complex issue that requires an in depth amount of historical knowledge. Probably the only people that can claim to fully grasp the issue is the people that have devoted their professional life to studying and understanding the people, history, culture, etc. involved. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
yinoma2001
Retired Number
Joined: 19 Jun 2010
Posts: 119487
|
| Posted: Wed Oct 16, 2019 7:37 am Post subject: |
|
|
| lakersken80 wrote: | | That is correct, the communists learned from the fall of the Soviet Union and used capitalism against us. While the free world was celebrating the downfall of communism, little did they know that they would regroup and get their revenge. |
Corporate interests control so much of America's policy, especially this administration.
So if a communist/authoritarian country can threaten a major corporation, that corporation in turn can press the US government through its lobbyist.
Effectively, corporate interests are dictating a lot of American policy.
So I'm very disappointed that LBJ is a corporatist. He is by no means an ALI. That much is for sure.
_________________
From 2-10 to the Western Conference Finals |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
adkindo
Retired Number
Joined: 16 Jun 2005
Posts: 40345
Location: Dirty South
|
| Posted: Wed Oct 16, 2019 7:42 am Post subject: |
|
|
| yinoma2001 wrote: | I remember studying poli sci in the 1990s, the prevailing theories were that democracy would use capitalist incentives to change authoritarian/communist country behaviors.
Fast forward to 2019, and the same authoritarian/communist countries are using capitalistic/consumeristic means to threaten or influence democratic/capitalist countries. This is a disturbing trend that will likely continue, especially under the current administration.
Has our own US government said a peep about Hong Kong? |
I do not understand the basis of your statement being tied to the current US administration? I ask because I know you are aware that this method and strategy of using partial capitalistic measures to drive global influence was implemented and strong long before the current administration, and no administration has took any action except fully embracing the capitalism toe dipping....except this administration. We can debate the approach or effectiveness, but I recall no other administration pushing back on China's market exploitation and global growth until this administration. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
DaMuleRules
Retired Number
Joined: 10 Dec 2006
Posts: 52654
Location: Making a safety stop at 15 feet.
|
| Posted: Wed Oct 16, 2019 7:42 am Post subject: |
|
|
| Aeneas Hunter wrote: |
As I said before, he has a point. Morey ran his mouth, but it was the players who were on the front line for the fallout. |
Unfortunately for LeBron, that doesn't preclude Morey's right to comment.
_________________
You thought God was an architect, now you know
He’s something like a pipe bomb ready to blow
And everything you built that’s all for show
goes up in flames
In 24 frames
Jason Isbell
Man, do those lyrics resonate right now |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
DaMuleRules
Retired Number
Joined: 10 Dec 2006
Posts: 52654
Location: Making a safety stop at 15 feet.
|
| Posted: Wed Oct 16, 2019 7:45 am Post subject: |
|
|
| vanexelent wrote: | | But Lebron inquiring about the league disciplining Morey for speaking out is what is puzzling, coming from Lebron. Silver had the right response. |
Yep. And it just compounds LeBron's hypocrisy.
_________________
You thought God was an architect, now you know
He’s something like a pipe bomb ready to blow
And everything you built that’s all for show
goes up in flames
In 24 frames
Jason Isbell
Man, do those lyrics resonate right now |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Aeneas Hunter
Retired Number
Joined: 12 Jul 2005
Posts: 31763
|
| Posted: Wed Oct 16, 2019 7:47 am Post subject: |
|
|
| vanexelent wrote: | Oh, no doubt the players were left holding the bag while Morey retreated from Twitter and wasn't even present in China.
But Lebron inquiring about the league disciplining Morey for speaking out is what is puzzling, coming from Lebron. Silver had the right response. |
Okay, but the two things are linked. Morey left the players holding the bag, and the players were actually in China. There is a difference between (1) Morey expressing his opinion during the middle of the season, when no one else is affected, and (2) Morey expressing his opinion just as a bunch of NBA players are on their way to China. As I read it, Silver was missing Lebron's point, as are a lot of people in this thread. The NBA would never discipline Morey for expressing his opinion, per se, but that isn't the point.
It pains me to defend Lebron on something like this, but I can put myself in the position of the NBA players who were in China. You may think that it was unlikely that anything bad would happen to them, and I agree. However, it is easy for us to say that while we sit at our computers on this side of the Pacific. If we had been NBA players in the middle of a country with a billion pissed off people, our perspective would be different.
Imagine a preseason game being scheduled in, say, Saudi Arabia. It could happen. Imagine the players getting off the plane in Riyadh to find out that, say, Greg Popovich just went on a rant about Saudi intervention in Yemen or how the Crown Prince should be hauled before a international tribunal on murder charges. We aren't talking about the right to express an opinion. We're talking about the choice of timing.
Again, I do not feel some moral obligation to defend Lebron, to put it mildly. However, if you read what he said in light of what I just wrote, you'll see that a lot of people are reacting to their perception of what Lebron might say rather than what he was actually saying. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
lakersken80
Retired Number
Joined: 12 Aug 2009
Posts: 38780
|
| Posted: Wed Oct 16, 2019 7:48 am Post subject: |
|
|
| yinoma2001 wrote: | | lakersken80 wrote: | | That is correct, the communists learned from the fall of the Soviet Union and used capitalism against us. While the free world was celebrating the downfall of communism, little did they know that they would regroup and get their revenge. |
Corporate interests control so much of America's policy, especially this administration.
So if a communist/authoritarian country can threaten a major corporation, that corporation in turn can press the US government through its lobbyist.
Effectively, corporate interests are dictating a lot of American policy.
So I'm very disappointed that LBJ is a corporatist. He is by no means an ALI. That much is for sure. |
To be fair, this has been a long time coming....its just that our lifestyle is no longer vastly superior to the rest of the world and most people have finally woken up to this reality. It began when we let corporations set up shop in other countries (whom some of them were not even allies of the US), and it was even encouraged as a result of US policy at the time. I don't think the policy makers realized that it would end up hurting us economically and politically in the future since there were immediate benefits for us. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
vanexelent
Retired Number
Joined: 17 May 2005
Posts: 30081
|
| Posted: Wed Oct 16, 2019 8:03 am Post subject: |
|
|
| Aeneas Hunter wrote: | | vanexelent wrote: | Oh, no doubt the players were left holding the bag while Morey retreated from Twitter and wasn't even present in China.
But Lebron inquiring about the league disciplining Morey for speaking out is what is puzzling, coming from Lebron. Silver had the right response. |
Okay, but the two things are linked. Morey left the players holding the bag, and the players were actually in China. There is a difference between (1) Morey expressing his opinion during the middle of the season, when no one else is affected, and (2) Morey expressing his opinion just as a bunch of NBA players are on their way to China. As I read it, Silver was missing Lebron's point, as are a lot of people in this thread. The NBA would never discipline Morey for expressing his opinion, per se, but that isn't the point.
It pains me to defend Lebron on something like this, but I can put myself in the position of the NBA players who were in China. You may think that it was unlikely that anything bad would happen to them, and I agree. However, it is easy for us to say that while we sit at our computers on this side of the Pacific. If we had been NBA players in the middle of a country with a billion pissed off people, our perspective would be different.
Imagine a preseason game being scheduled in, say, Saudi Arabia. It could happen. Imagine the players getting off the plane in Riyadh to find out that, say, Greg Popovich just went on a rant about Saudi intervention in Yemen or how the Crown Prince should be hauled before a international tribunal on murder charges. We aren't talking about the right to express an opinion. We're talking about the choice of timing.
Again, I do not feel some moral obligation to defend Lebron, to put it mildly. However, if you read what he said in light of what I just wrote, you'll see that a lot of people are reacting to their perception of what Lebron might say rather than what he was actually saying. |
Sure, timing is everything and Morey owes every Nets and Lakers player an apology and the Rockets should have to forfeit the season (kidding). I just don't think Lebron was talking simply about timing though and the protests are going on now, so it's not like Morey's show of support is something he would think about holding off. Maybe he has friend's in HK and wanted t show his support?
I wouldn't expect Lebron to hold off from commenting about NYC cops and Eric Garner because the Knicks had a game at the Garden that night. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
DaMuleRules
Retired Number
Joined: 10 Dec 2006
Posts: 52654
Location: Making a safety stop at 15 feet.
|
| Posted: Wed Oct 16, 2019 8:06 am Post subject: |
|
|
| Aeneas Hunter wrote: | | vanexelent wrote: | Oh, no doubt the players were left holding the bag while Morey retreated from Twitter and wasn't even present in China.
But Lebron inquiring about the league disciplining Morey for speaking out is what is puzzling, coming from Lebron. Silver had the right response. |
Okay, but the two things are linked. Morey left the players holding the bag, and the players were actually in China. There is a difference between (1) Morey expressing his opinion during the middle of the season, when no one else is affected, and (2) Morey expressing his opinion just as a bunch of NBA players are on their way to China. As I read it, Silver was missing Lebron's point, as are a lot of people in this thread. The NBA would never discipline Morey for expressing his opinion, per se, but that isn't the point.
It pains me to defend Lebron on something like this, but I can put myself in the position of the NBA players who were in China. You may think that it was unlikely that anything bad would happen to them, and I agree. However, it is easy for us to say that while we sit at our computers on this side of the Pacific. If we had been NBA players in the middle of a country with a billion pissed off people, our perspective would be different.
Imagine a preseason game being scheduled in, say, Saudi Arabia. It could happen. Imagine the players getting off the plane in Riyadh to find out that, say, Greg Popovich just went on a rant about Saudi intervention in Yemen or how the Crown Prince should be hauled before a international tribunal on murder charges. We aren't talking about the right to express an opinion. We're talking about the choice of timing.
Again, I do not feel some moral obligation to defend Lebron, to put it mildly. However, if you read what he said in light of what I just wrote, you'll see that a lot of people are reacting to their perception of what Lebron might say rather than what he was actually saying. |
I know what LeBron was saying, and he's wrong. There's one point I do agree with you in a sense, and that is in regards to timing being important. But I differ in that Morey's timing is significant because it took place in conjunction with the visit and that is an appropriate time. You bring people's attention to things when they are at the forefront and in the spotlight.
Look, even you said that it was unlikely that anything bad was going to happen to them. Calling for Morey to be punished was inappropriate, especially coming from someone who has been outspoken about his right to speak his mind freely.
_________________
You thought God was an architect, now you know
He’s something like a pipe bomb ready to blow
And everything you built that’s all for show
goes up in flames
In 24 frames
Jason Isbell
Man, do those lyrics resonate right now |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Aeneas Hunter
Retired Number
Joined: 12 Jul 2005
Posts: 31763
|
| Posted: Wed Oct 16, 2019 8:44 am Post subject: |
|
|
| vanexelent wrote: | | I wouldn't expect Lebron to hold off from commenting about NYC cops and Eric Garner because the Knicks had a game at the Garden that night. |
That’s not a good analogy, given that Lebron’s comments would have had widespread support in NYC. The Riyadh analogy is closer to the mark. Also, in America, we don’t attribute a political statement by a player to the whole league or to all players. In a country like China, things are not the same.
Anyway, I’m certainly not going to defend the idea that Morey should have been disciplined. However, I can understand why LeBron, Kyrie, and others were pretty pissed about the situation. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
jodeke
Retired Number
Joined: 17 Nov 2007
Posts: 67625
Location: In a world where admitting to not knowing something is considered a great way to learn.
|
| Posted: Wed Oct 16, 2019 10:20 am Post subject: |
|
|
This is a prime example why MJ didn't involve himself in things political. You're damned if you damned if you don't. Why is Daryl Morey allowed to hide?
_________________
Be who you are and say what you feel because those who mind don't matter and those who matter don't mind.
America will never be destroyed from the outside. If we falter and lose our freedoms, it will be because we destroyed ourselves. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
kikanga
Retired Number
Joined: 15 Sep 2012
Posts: 29285
Location: La La Land
|
| Posted: Wed Oct 16, 2019 10:39 am Post subject: |
|
|
| LongBeachPoly wrote: | | kikanga wrote: | | LongBeachPoly wrote: |
Like you said, people who live in glass houses can't throw stones.
So pretty much, you want no one to ever say anything. Which is the world you strive for.
|
You should find someone who said the bolded and debate them. Because I never said that. You keep adding 10-20% onto what I'm saying, and debating that. And I'm not here to argue for what you think I'm saying. I'm here telling you what I'm actually saying. |
| kikanga wrote: | | I just don't personally like throwing stones if I live in a glass house. |
| kikanga wrote: | | If LBJ is a hypocrite so are all the people who are acting holier than though while criticizing him on their Iphone while wearing Nikes. |
Let me rephrase then, everyone who wears Nikes or owns an iphone are holier than thou hypocrites and lose the right to criticize.
Did I get it right this time?
Considering how long the iphone and Nikes have been out, that might encompass the entire US population?
I'm guessing 90% of the US population has owned an iphone or a pair of Nikes in their life? So 90% of the US population is exempt from criticizing on this topic?
And since you didn't specify how a person obtained the iphone or Nikes, maybe if you give your child an iphone or a pair of Nikes, you have now made them hypocrites for life and now they too are exempted from criticizing on this topic (or maybe just any topic that involves hypocrisy? Who knows? The rules here are not clear.) |
Read the bolded and try again.
| kikanga wrote: |
LBPoly. Hypocrites can call out one another. There's nothing wrong with that. |
I've never seen someone work so hard to build a straw man.
_________________
"Every hurt is a lesson, and every lesson makes you better”
Last edited by kikanga on Wed Oct 16, 2019 11:01 am; edited 1 time in total |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
kikanga
Retired Number
Joined: 15 Sep 2012
Posts: 29285
Location: La La Land
|
| Posted: Wed Oct 16, 2019 10:48 am Post subject: |
|
|
I don't know how many times I have to say it. But calling out American consumers (lecturing Bron) as hypocrites doesn't mean LBJ is innocent.
And if the people outraged by LBJ's comments want to make a difference when it comes to China's oppressive regime. Limiting what they buy from China is a good start.
_________________
"Every hurt is a lesson, and every lesson makes you better” |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
vanexelent
Retired Number
Joined: 17 May 2005
Posts: 30081
|
| Posted: Wed Oct 16, 2019 11:01 am Post subject: |
|
|
| kikanga wrote: | I don't know how many times I have to say it. But calling out American consumers (lecturing Bron) as hypocrites doesn't mean LBJ is innocent.
And if the people outraged by LBJ's comments want to make a difference when it comes to China's oppressive regime. Limiting what they buy from China is a good start. |
Okay, let's all say we're hypocrites for buying products made in China. I still don't want to censor anyone from talking about it. Lebron does. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
|
|
You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum
|
|
