Lakers vs Nets games in China might get canceled (update: leaning towards letting Nets/Lakers play)
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TooMuchMajicBuss
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PostPosted: Fri Oct 11, 2019 11:25 am    Post subject:

maomao wrote:
lakersken80 wrote:
I know those pesky rights and people power. Why waste time on that when we can worship at the alter of making $$$$ even if that means we might lose out on our dignity.


There is an old Chinese saying of "never bend down over rice".

Unfortunately, that belief has been completely lost after centuries of western imperialistic influences. Remember, our founding fathers did not declare independence over dignity, it was money money money. que the song.....bling bling bling
omg listen to you. Hot take after hot take on subjects you know little about. The trade deficit discussion, this discussion, you're just making (bleep) up to see what sticks now.
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TooMuchMajicBuss
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PostPosted: Fri Oct 11, 2019 11:26 am    Post subject:

Double post

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lakersken80
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PostPosted: Fri Oct 11, 2019 11:27 am    Post subject:

So cal1piggy is invested into the Communist system, he and his friends are middle aged or older and are fine with making money over everything. Meanwhile, the younger generations economic prospects are worst than ever, thats why they are protesting. It is a point of view he could never understand because he will never see it. Its like when a baby boomer tells a millennial they just have to work harder even though the economic environment that they grew up in is vastly different than the reality the newer generation is experiencing. This is why he feels little to no empathy for them, the hell with these people.
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maomao
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PostPosted: Fri Oct 11, 2019 11:27 am    Post subject:

TooMuchMajicBuss wrote:
maomao wrote:
lakersken80 wrote:
I know those pesky rights and people power. Why waste time on that when we can worship at the alter of making $$$$ even if that means we might lose out on our dignity.


There is an old Chinese saying of "never bend down over rice".

Unfortunately, that belief has been completely lost after centuries of western imperialistic influences. Remember, our founding fathers did not declare independence over dignity, it was money money money. que the song.....bling bling bling
omg listen to you. Hot take after hot take on subjects you know little about. The trade deficit discussion, this discussion, you're just making (bleep) up to see what sticks now.


everything sticks unless you point out what's wrong, or nothing sticks because you don't like it? this thread is all (bleep) thanks to Morey anyways.
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cal1piggy
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PostPosted: Fri Oct 11, 2019 11:27 am    Post subject:

lakersken80 wrote:
maomao wrote:
lakersken80 wrote:
I know those pesky rights and people power. Why waste time on that when we can worship at the alter of making $$$$ even if that means we might lose out on our dignity.


There is an old Chinese saying of "never bend down over rice".

Unfortunately, that belief has been completely lost after centuries of western imperialistic influences. Remember, our founding fathers did not declare independence over dignity, it was money money money. que the song.....bling bling bling


I'm not sure which founding father you are referring to but in the USA, it was about liberty from tyranny.....you see the colonies were once ruled by a King, but the colonies decided to throw them out when they thought they could do a better job of governing.


this was required reading in my high school history class:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/An_Economic_Interpretation_of_the_Constitution_of_the_United_States
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lakersken80
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PostPosted: Fri Oct 11, 2019 11:29 am    Post subject:

maomao wrote:
lakersken80 wrote:
maomao wrote:
lakersken80 wrote:
I know those pesky rights and people power. Why waste time on that when we can worship at the alter of making $$$$ even if that means we might lose out on our dignity.


There is an old Chinese saying of "never bend down over rice".

Unfortunately, that belief has been completely lost after centuries of western imperialistic influences. Remember, our founding fathers did not declare independence over dignity, it was money money money. que the song.....bling bling bling


I'm not sure which founding father you are referring to but in the USA, it was about liberty from tyranny.....you see the colonies were once ruled by a King, but the colonies decided to throw them out when they thought they could do a better job of governing.


Go check your history books. There would not be an independence in 1776 had there been no taxes collected by the British on the colonies.


I'm very well versed in US history, its you and your communist sympathizing buddies that need a refresher course.
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cal1piggy
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PostPosted: Fri Oct 11, 2019 11:29 am    Post subject:

lakersken80 wrote:
So cal1piggy is invested into the Communist system, he and his friends are middle aged or older and are fine with making money over everything. Meanwhile, the younger generations economic prospects are worst than ever, thats why they are protesting. It is a point of view he could never understand because he will never see it. Its like when a baby boomer tells a millennial they just have to work harder even though the economic environment that they grew up in is vastly different than the reality the newer generation is experiencing. This is why he feels little to no empathy for them, the hell with these people.


did u think my friends and family have kids?
people do the best they can, but for a couple hundred thousand people to revolt against 1.4 billion people is plain silly.
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maomao
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PostPosted: Fri Oct 11, 2019 11:33 am    Post subject:

lakersken80 wrote:
So cal1piggy is invested into the Communist system, he and his friends are middle aged or older and are fine with making money over everything. Meanwhile, the younger generations economic prospects are worst than ever, thats why they are protesting. It is a point of view he could never understand because he will never see it. Its like when a baby boomer tells a millennial they just have to work harder even though the economic environment that they grew up in is vastly different than the reality the newer generation is experiencing. This is why he feels little to no empathy for them, the hell with these people.


well good point, but I rather trust the baby boomers/greatest generation rather than some spoiled millennial.

All I know is, the older went through tougher times and had greater success, while the younger ones has the internet and nothing else.
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PostPosted: Fri Oct 11, 2019 11:34 am    Post subject:

lakersken80 wrote:
maomao wrote:
lakersken80 wrote:
maomao wrote:
lakersken80 wrote:
I know those pesky rights and people power. Why waste time on that when we can worship at the alter of making $$$$ even if that means we might lose out on our dignity.


There is an old Chinese saying of "never bend down over rice".

Unfortunately, that belief has been completely lost after centuries of western imperialistic influences. Remember, our founding fathers did not declare independence over dignity, it was money money money. que the song.....bling bling bling


I'm not sure which founding father you are referring to but in the USA, it was about liberty from tyranny.....you see the colonies were once ruled by a King, but the colonies decided to throw them out when they thought they could do a better job of governing.


Go check your history books. There would not be an independence in 1776 had there been no taxes collected by the British on the colonies.


I'm very well versed in US history, its you and your communist sympathizing buddies that need a refresher course.


the chinese government party is the chinese communist party.
but to call them communist is ridiculous.
there is very little sharing of resources in china.
you keep going back to use the word communist.
but the best description of the chinese economy now is more like wild wild west capitalism with elements of central planning and control.

i also seem to recall something about boston and tea...
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PostPosted: Fri Oct 11, 2019 11:34 am    Post subject:

maomao wrote:
lakersken80 wrote:
So cal1piggy is invested into the Communist system, he and his friends are middle aged or older and are fine with making money over everything. Meanwhile, the younger generations economic prospects are worst than ever, thats why they are protesting. It is a point of view he could never understand because he will never see it. Its like when a baby boomer tells a millennial they just have to work harder even though the economic environment that they grew up in is vastly different than the reality the newer generation is experiencing. This is why he feels little to no empathy for them, the hell with these people.


well good point, but I rather trust the baby boomers/greatest generation rather than some spoiled millennial.

All I know is, the older went through tougher times and had greater success, while the younger ones has the internet and nothing else.


And I bet the millennials are just waiting for the boomers to die so they can get rid of their archaic thinking.
And I see you edited your comment to include the greatest generation. These people have a different mentality than the boomers if you did some research.
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PostPosted: Fri Oct 11, 2019 11:37 am    Post subject:

lakersken80 wrote:
maomao wrote:
lakersken80 wrote:
So cal1piggy is invested into the Communist system, he and his friends are middle aged or older and are fine with making money over everything. Meanwhile, the younger generations economic prospects are worst than ever, thats why they are protesting. It is a point of view he could never understand because he will never see it. Its like when a baby boomer tells a millennial they just have to work harder even though the economic environment that they grew up in is vastly different than the reality the newer generation is experiencing. This is why he feels little to no empathy for them, the hell with these people.


well good point, but I rather trust the baby boomers/greatest generation rather than some spoiled millennial.

All I know is, the older went through tougher times and had greater success, while the younger ones has the internet and nothing else.


And I bet the millennials are just waiting for the boomers to die so they can get rid of their archaic thinking.
And I see you edited your comment to include the greatest generation. These people have a different mentality than the boomers if you did some research.


yeah, and the cycle goes on, the young always questions and rebels against the old, until they become the old.
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Runway8
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PostPosted: Fri Oct 11, 2019 11:38 am    Post subject:

Usually LG doesn't allow political discord, right? Amazing this thread has lasted this long. I'd like it to last longer. So please remember to be respectful to each other. I venture to guess we have Chinese fans on this board, Americans with Chinese friends, and Americanized or ABC's with roots in both countries, so lets be understanding and respectful to each other. This is truly complicated, and especially complicated and sensitive for people with ties in both countries. It is not black or white for them.
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PostPosted: Fri Oct 11, 2019 11:39 am    Post subject:

Runway8 wrote:
Do people who get into heated discussions even know the HK history? Do the kids burning up their own place of living and businesses in HK even know how they were lent out to Britain in the first place? I didn't know. I had to do some research, and this is my summary. If there are historians who can shed even more pertinent info, It will be appreciated.

Basically China tried to stop Britain from flooding their country with opium. Essentially Britain, the drug dealers, got pissed that China didn't want it anymore, got pissed that China confiscated and destroyed their smuggled supplies and declared war. China lost and had to lease HK to Britain for 99 yrs as part of a peace treaty to repay the destroyed opium. HK citizens were colonized, discriminated against, and did not enjoy the same rights as British citizens who did business in HK. And the truth of the matter is that HK only experienced more autonomy under the handover. Britain essentially said, "Well if we can't govern her anymore, you can't either. So lets make sure they elect their own government." What's happening in HK right now is almost like a case of Stockholm syndrome on a country scale.

China may feel that they were bullied in the first place, just like they were bullied when Japan occupied them. I can see why they are never going to let HK go.



HK Protesters did not ask for independence. It is CCP that forced the "independence" labels on them.

They are protested for Universal Suffrage and against Police brutality.

The HK protesters are not stupid. They have 0 guns. However anyone declare independence without any arm force?

We all know what happen in 1989-6-4. If HK goes for independence, that will be the end result. Most protesters, I believe, understand the tank problem.

However, it is the People Daily that called the HK protest: "color revolution". Then the CPP 50 cent army repeated the same propaganda.

Do the protesters overall want independence? Maybe. But they are NOT stupid enough to say it and give CCP an excuse to send the PLA.

It is the CCP troll, like Nets' owner, that push HK history and independence into the discussion.

Hong Kong is part of China, but under 1 country, 2 systems.

In me, the ideal end-game for HK is become a political entity like a US state government.

HK situation, imo, is very similar to US state right issue. Each state can have its own law code, elect its own governor and its own representative.

Independence, to me, is absolutely out of question. The protesters know it and the CCP government know it.

CCP propaganda is very good. So there is no discussion in here about the real issue, HK Universal Suffrage and HK Police brutality.


Last edited by seccom on Fri Oct 11, 2019 11:44 am; edited 2 times in total
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PostPosted: Fri Oct 11, 2019 11:42 am    Post subject:

Runway8 wrote:
Usually LG doesn't allow political discord, right? Amazing this thread has lasted this long. I'd like it to last longer. So please remember to be respectful to each other. I venture to guess we have Chinese fans on this board, Americans with Chinese friends, and Americanized or ABC's with roots in both countries, so lets be understanding and respectful to each other. This is truly complicated, and especially complicated and sensitive for people with ties in both countries. It is not black or white for them.


We are all Americans who exchanges a certain amount of dignity for money to feed our family.
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PostPosted: Fri Oct 11, 2019 11:42 am    Post subject:

Runway8 wrote:
Usually LG doesn't allow political discord, right? Amazing this thread has lasted this long. I'd like it to last longer. So please remember to be respectful to each other. I venture to guess we have Chinese fans on this board, Americans with Chinese friends, and Americanized or ABC's with roots in both countries, so lets be understanding and respectful to each other. This is truly complicated, and especially complicated and sensitive for people with ties in both countries. It is not black or white for them.


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PostPosted: Fri Oct 11, 2019 11:50 am    Post subject:

seccom wrote:
Runway8 wrote:
Do people who get into heated discussions even know the HK history? Do the kids burning up their own place of living and businesses in HK even know how they were lent out to Britain in the first place? I didn't know. I had to do some research, and this is my summary. If there are historians who can shed even more pertinent info, It will be appreciated.

Basically China tried to stop Britain from flooding their country with opium. Essentially Britain, the drug dealers, got pissed that China didn't want it anymore, got pissed that China confiscated and destroyed their smuggled supplies and declared war. China lost and had to lease HK to Britain for 99 yrs as part of a peace treaty to repay the destroyed opium. HK citizens were colonized, discriminated against, and did not enjoy the same rights as British citizens who did business in HK. And the truth of the matter is that HK only experienced more autonomy under the handover. Britain essentially said, "Well if we can't govern her anymore, you can't either. So lets make sure they elect their own government." What's happening in HK right now is almost like a case of Stockholm syndrome on a country scale.

China may feel that they were bullied in the first place, just like they were bullied when Japan occupied them. I can see why they are never going to let HK go.



HK Protesters did not ask for independence. It is CCP that forced the "independence" labels on them.

They are protested for Universal Suffrage and against Police brutality.

The HK protesters are not stupid. They have 0 guns. However anyone declare independence without any arm force?

We all know what happen in 1989-6-4. If HK goes for independence, that will be the end result. Most protesters, I believe, understand the tank problem.

However, it is the People Daily that called the HK protest: "color revolution". Then the CPP 50 cent army repeated the same propaganda.

Do the protesters overall want independence? Maybe. But they are NOT stupid enough to say it and give CCP an excuse to send the PLA.

It is the CCP troll, like Nets' owner, that push HK history and independence into the discussion.

Hong Kong is part of China, but under 1 country, 2 systems.

In me, the ideal end-game for HK is become a political entity like a US state government.

HK situation, imo, is very similar to US state right issue. Each state can have its own law code, elect its own governor and its own representative.

Independence, to me, absolutely out of question. The protesters know it and the CCP government know it.

CCP propaganda is very good. So there is no discussion in here about real issue, HK Universal Suffrage and HK Police brutality.


Here is the major difference. Hong Kong does not pay a dime to the central government. The CCP doesn't want anything from Hong Kong as long as they don't support separation (the CCP is under pressure from the Chinese people, territorial integrity is the most important thing for Chinese people due to historical reasons. )

Universal Sufrfage (okay as long as it follows the basic law in a incremental basis)
Police brutality (deal with it, there are brutality on both side as it should be)
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cal1piggy
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PostPosted: Fri Oct 11, 2019 11:50 am    Post subject:

seccom wrote:
Runway8 wrote:
Do people who get into heated discussions even know the HK history? Do the kids burning up their own place of living and businesses in HK even know how they were lent out to Britain in the first place? I didn't know. I had to do some research, and this is my summary. If there are historians who can shed even more pertinent info, It will be appreciated.

Basically China tried to stop Britain from flooding their country with opium. Essentially Britain, the drug dealers, got pissed that China didn't want it anymore, got pissed that China confiscated and destroyed their smuggled supplies and declared war. China lost and had to lease HK to Britain for 99 yrs as part of a peace treaty to repay the destroyed opium. HK citizens were colonized, discriminated against, and did not enjoy the same rights as British citizens who did business in HK. And the truth of the matter is that HK only experienced more autonomy under the handover. Britain essentially said, "Well if we can't govern her anymore, you can't either. So lets make sure they elect their own government." What's happening in HK right now is almost like a case of Stockholm syndrome on a country scale.

China may feel that they were bullied in the first place, just like they were bullied when Japan occupied them. I can see why they are never going to let HK go.



HK Protesters did not ask for independence. It is CCP that forced the "independence" labels on them.

They are protested for Universal Suffrage and against Police brutality.

The HK protesters are not stupid. They have 0 guns. However anyone declare independence without any arm force?

We all know what happen in 1989-6-4. If HK goes for independence, that will be the end result. Most protesters, I believe, understand the tank problem.

However, it is the People Daily that called the HK protest: "color revolution". Then the CPP 50 cent army repeated the same propaganda.

Do the protesters overall want independence? Maybe. But they are NOT stupid enough to say it and give CCP an excuse to send the PLA.

It is the CCP troll, like Nets' owner, that push HK history and independence into the discussion.

Hong Kong is part of China, but under 1 country, 2 systems.

In me, the ideal end-game for HK is become a political entity like a US state government.

HK situation, imo, is very similar to US state right issue. Each state can have its own law code, elect its own governor and its own representative.

Independence, to me, is absolutely out of question. The protesters know it and the CCP government know it.

CCP propaganda is very good. So there is no discussion in here about the real issue, HK Universal Suffrage and HK Police brutality.



if the protesters were smart, they would not have become rioters throwing gasoline bombs and beating up people who say things they dont like. if they would have remained peaceful, they would like have had more support and have been able to protest for months or years. now, they have given beijing a great reason and excuse to clamp down, which would make the mainland population happy at the same time.

the iconic picture from tinnamen square was the brave person who stepped in front of the tank.

in contrast, it is highly likely the iconic video of the hong kong rebellion is the masked protester beating up the jp morgan banker.
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PostPosted: Fri Oct 11, 2019 11:52 am    Post subject:

maomao wrote:
Goldenwest wrote:
epak wrote:
Goldenwest wrote:
They make all our stuff and basically control our economy, a little late in the day to be complaining about the way they run their country. Guess the idea of exploiting cheap labor, getting cheaper stuff, and our corporations making huge profits was too good to pass up.


Actually I dont think it's that simple.
There's an intermingling of both countries for each others' own gain...

Oh no! I'm the 3rd maox2/calihog :O
Help!


That’s what the politicians like to say, ‘it’s not that simple’

Truth is, it is. Chinese middle class is growing, the trade deficit is hugely in their favor, and they are finding other countries to do business with. They can dump our bonds tomorrow and crash our economy. They would be hurt as well but not nearly as bad as we would.


I don’t think the trade deficit is hugely in their favor. Remember this only came out because Trump tweet about it. It’s always been like this for many year. It’s not in their favor because of two things that are not calculated because they are not true import/export.

1. For example, apple makes iPhones in china. Most of those money goes to apple, not the Chinese when we “import” the phones. To make matters worse, Apple sells iPhone to Chinese consumers at a much higher price than to US consumers.

So we have businesses that takes advantage of the cheap labors in China, and sells product there at a higher price at the same time.

2. American business doing business in China. Again, there is no import/export, only American business making money from the Chinese consumers. You know how many years had McDonald’s been in service in china? Starbucks? And many fast food chains, American brands.

There is no such Chinese business that does business here in the same capacity. Do you know any Chinese equivalent of Apple or McDonald’s? There are none. The whole trade deficit is a pure made up thing from the Trump administrations just to tell you that we are at war and losing money to the Chinese. But in reality, our business are making a killing over there, they just don’t factor into the import/export numbers


The trade deficit has been around long before trump. And it is very much in China’s favor - look it up. Your also leaving out the fact that companies such as Apple are in partnership with Chinese businesses. They both make huge profits. at who’s expense though? Look around the manufacturing, I mean depressed, areas of the US. compare Chinese cities now and compare to 30 years ago.
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PostPosted: Fri Oct 11, 2019 11:54 am    Post subject:

maomao wrote:
lakersken80 wrote:
So cal1piggy is invested into the Communist system, he and his friends are middle aged or older and are fine with making money over everything. Meanwhile, the younger generations economic prospects are worst than ever, thats why they are protesting. It is a point of view he could never understand because he will never see it. Its like when a baby boomer tells a millennial they just have to work harder even though the economic environment that they grew up in is vastly different than the reality the newer generation is experiencing. This is why he feels little to no empathy for them, the hell with these people.


well good point, but I rather trust the baby boomers/greatest generation rather than some spoiled millennial.

All I know is, the older went through tougher times and had greater success, while the younger ones has the internet and nothing else.
And a cultural revolution. Oh, but that's made up. Just like published balance of trade figures that go back for decades, and for that matter, the private letters, early congressional arguments, and early laws passed by our nation's founders. According to you.

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PostPosted: Fri Oct 11, 2019 11:57 am    Post subject:

maomao wrote:
Runway8 wrote:
Usually LG doesn't allow political discord, right? Amazing this thread has lasted this long. I'd like it to last longer. So please remember to be respectful to each other. I venture to guess we have Chinese fans on this board, Americans with Chinese friends, and Americanized or ABC's with roots in both countries, so lets be understanding and respectful to each other. This is truly complicated, and especially complicated and sensitive for people with ties in both countries. It is not black or white for them.


We are all Americans who exchanges a certain amount of dignity for money to feed our family.
Some of us bring our dignity to work. We dont all leave it at the door.
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PostPosted: Fri Oct 11, 2019 12:00 pm    Post subject:

Goldenwest wrote:
maomao wrote:
Goldenwest wrote:
epak wrote:
Goldenwest wrote:
They make all our stuff and basically control our economy, a little late in the day to be complaining about the way they run their country. Guess the idea of exploiting cheap labor, getting cheaper stuff, and our corporations making huge profits was too good to pass up.


Actually I dont think it's that simple.
There's an intermingling of both countries for each others' own gain...

Oh no! I'm the 3rd maox2/calihog :O
Help!


That’s what the politicians like to say, ‘it’s not that simple’

Truth is, it is. Chinese middle class is growing, the trade deficit is hugely in their favor, and they are finding other countries to do business with. They can dump our bonds tomorrow and crash our economy. They would be hurt as well but not nearly as bad as we would.


I don’t think the trade deficit is hugely in their favor. Remember this only came out because Trump tweet about it. It’s always been like this for many year. It’s not in their favor because of two things that are not calculated because they are not true import/export.

1. For example, apple makes iPhones in china. Most of those money goes to apple, not the Chinese when we “import” the phones. To make matters worse, Apple sells iPhone to Chinese consumers at a much higher price than to US consumers.

So we have businesses that takes advantage of the cheap labors in China, and sells product there at a higher price at the same time.

2. American business doing business in China. Again, there is no import/export, only American business making money from the Chinese consumers. You know how many years had McDonald’s been in service in china? Starbucks? And many fast food chains, American brands.

There is no such Chinese business that does business here in the same capacity. Do you know any Chinese equivalent of Apple or McDonald’s? There are none. The whole trade deficit is a pure made up thing from the Trump administrations just to tell you that we are at war and losing money to the Chinese. But in reality, our business are making a killing over there, they just don’t factor into the import/export numbers


The trade deficit has been around long before trump. And it is very much in China’s favor - look it up. Your also leaving out the fact that companies such as Apple are in partnership with Chinese businesses. They both make huge profits. at who’s expense though? Look around the manufacturing, I mean depressed, areas of the US. compare Chinese cities now and compare to 30 years ago.


Well, all I'm saying it's hard to calculate whoes favor it is on when the two biggest factories (IP, not just physical goods) and market trade. There are cities in both China and US that are depressed as well, it's just that the factories in Detroit had been operating even before China is established. And when you say compare to 30 years ago, there is no point, of course you will see significant growth in Chinese cities. but you can also look at the silicon valley and other tech hubs in the US, compare them to 30 years ago gives you the same picture.
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PostPosted: Fri Oct 11, 2019 12:01 pm    Post subject:

TooMuchMajicBuss wrote:
maomao wrote:
Runway8 wrote:
Usually LG doesn't allow political discord, right? Amazing this thread has lasted this long. I'd like it to last longer. So please remember to be respectful to each other. I venture to guess we have Chinese fans on this board, Americans with Chinese friends, and Americanized or ABC's with roots in both countries, so lets be understanding and respectful to each other. This is truly complicated, and especially complicated and sensitive for people with ties in both countries. It is not black or white for them.


We are all Americans who exchanges a certain amount of dignity for money to feed our family.
Some of us bring our dignity to work. We dont all leave it at the door.


well, all you have to is to imagine your boss/biggest customer not sharing the same believe as you are.
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maomao
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PostPosted: Fri Oct 11, 2019 12:04 pm    Post subject:

TooMuchMajicBuss wrote:
maomao wrote:
lakersken80 wrote:
So cal1piggy is invested into the Communist system, he and his friends are middle aged or older and are fine with making money over everything. Meanwhile, the younger generations economic prospects are worst than ever, thats why they are protesting. It is a point of view he could never understand because he will never see it. Its like when a baby boomer tells a millennial they just have to work harder even though the economic environment that they grew up in is vastly different than the reality the newer generation is experiencing. This is why he feels little to no empathy for them, the hell with these people.


well good point, but I rather trust the baby boomers/greatest generation rather than some spoiled millennial.

All I know is, the older went through tougher times and had greater success, while the younger ones has the internet and nothing else.
And a cultural revolution. Oh, but that's made up. Just like published balance of trade figures that go back for decades, and for that matter, the private letters, early congressional arguments, and early laws passed by our nation's founders. According to you.



I don't know where you're trying to go with this. Feel free to counter my points about the trade deficit as there are many things that are not factored into the import/export calculation.
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seccom
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PostPosted: Fri Oct 11, 2019 12:11 pm    Post subject:

maomao wrote:
seccom wrote:
Runway8 wrote:
Do people who get into heated discussions even know the HK history? Do the kids burning up their own place of living and businesses in HK even know how they were lent out to Britain in the first place? I didn't know. I had to do some research, and this is my summary. If there are historians who can shed even more pertinent info, It will be appreciated.

Basically China tried to stop Britain from flooding their country with opium. Essentially Britain, the drug dealers, got pissed that China didn't want it anymore, got pissed that China confiscated and destroyed their smuggled supplies and declared war. China lost and had to lease HK to Britain for 99 yrs as part of a peace treaty to repay the destroyed opium. HK citizens were colonized, discriminated against, and did not enjoy the same rights as British citizens who did business in HK. And the truth of the matter is that HK only experienced more autonomy under the handover. Britain essentially said, "Well if we can't govern her anymore, you can't either. So lets make sure they elect their own government." What's happening in HK right now is almost like a case of Stockholm syndrome on a country scale.

China may feel that they were bullied in the first place, just like they were bullied when Japan occupied them. I can see why they are never going to let HK go.



HK Protesters did not ask for independence. It is CCP that forced the "independence" labels on them.

They are protested for Universal Suffrage and against Police brutality.

The HK protesters are not stupid. They have 0 guns. However anyone declare independence without any arm force?

We all know what happen in 1989-6-4. If HK goes for independence, that will be the end result. Most protesters, I believe, understand the tank problem.

However, it is the People Daily that called the HK protest: "color revolution". Then the CPP 50 cent army repeated the same propaganda.

Do the protesters overall want independence? Maybe. But they are NOT stupid enough to say it and give CCP an excuse to send the PLA.

It is the CCP troll, like Nets' owner, that push HK history and independence into the discussion.

Hong Kong is part of China, but under 1 country, 2 systems.

In me, the ideal end-game for HK is become a political entity like a US state government.

HK situation, imo, is very similar to US state right issue. Each state can have its own law code, elect its own governor and its own representative.

Independence, to me, absolutely out of question. The protesters know it and the CCP government know it.

CCP propaganda is very good. So there is no discussion in here about real issue, HK Universal Suffrage and HK Police brutality.


Here is the major difference. Hong Kong does not pay a dime to the central government. The CCP doesn't want anything from Hong Kong as long as they don't support separation (the CCP is under pressure from the Chinese people, territorial integrity is the most important thing for Chinese people due to historical reasons. )

Universal Sufrfage (okay as long as it follows the basic law in a incremental basis)
Police brutality (deal with it, there are brutality on both side as it should be)


Let me re-stated my earlier message, the NBA issue is a question of Free Speech right of an US citizen. It really have nothing to do with HK history and even the protest itself.
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cal1piggy
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PostPosted: Fri Oct 11, 2019 12:16 pm    Post subject:

seccom wrote:
maomao wrote:
seccom wrote:
Runway8 wrote:
Do people who get into heated discussions even know the HK history? Do the kids burning up their own place of living and businesses in HK even know how they were lent out to Britain in the first place? I didn't know. I had to do some research, and this is my summary. If there are historians who can shed even more pertinent info, It will be appreciated.

Basically China tried to stop Britain from flooding their country with opium. Essentially Britain, the drug dealers, got pissed that China didn't want it anymore, got pissed that China confiscated and destroyed their smuggled supplies and declared war. China lost and had to lease HK to Britain for 99 yrs as part of a peace treaty to repay the destroyed opium. HK citizens were colonized, discriminated against, and did not enjoy the same rights as British citizens who did business in HK. And the truth of the matter is that HK only experienced more autonomy under the handover. Britain essentially said, "Well if we can't govern her anymore, you can't either. So lets make sure they elect their own government." What's happening in HK right now is almost like a case of Stockholm syndrome on a country scale.

China may feel that they were bullied in the first place, just like they were bullied when Japan occupied them. I can see why they are never going to let HK go.



HK Protesters did not ask for independence. It is CCP that forced the "independence" labels on them.

They are protested for Universal Suffrage and against Police brutality.

The HK protesters are not stupid. They have 0 guns. However anyone declare independence without any arm force?

We all know what happen in 1989-6-4. If HK goes for independence, that will be the end result. Most protesters, I believe, understand the tank problem.

However, it is the People Daily that called the HK protest: "color revolution". Then the CPP 50 cent army repeated the same propaganda.

Do the protesters overall want independence? Maybe. But they are NOT stupid enough to say it and give CCP an excuse to send the PLA.

It is the CCP troll, like Nets' owner, that push HK history and independence into the discussion.

Hong Kong is part of China, but under 1 country, 2 systems.

In me, the ideal end-game for HK is become a political entity like a US state government.

HK situation, imo, is very similar to US state right issue. Each state can have its own law code, elect its own governor and its own representative.

Independence, to me, absolutely out of question. The protesters know it and the CCP government know it.

CCP propaganda is very good. So there is no discussion in here about real issue, HK Universal Suffrage and HK Police brutality.


Here is the major difference. Hong Kong does not pay a dime to the central government. The CCP doesn't want anything from Hong Kong as long as they don't support separation (the CCP is under pressure from the Chinese people, territorial integrity is the most important thing for Chinese people due to historical reasons. )

Universal Sufrfage (okay as long as it follows the basic law in a incremental basis)
Police brutality (deal with it, there are brutality on both side as it should be)


Let me re-stated my earlier message, the NBA issue is a question of Free Speech right of an US citizen. It really have nothing to do with HK history and even the protest itself.




No Constitutional Free Speech At Work

Employees don’t have a Constitutional right to free speech or freedom of expression at work. The Constitution’s right to free speech only applies when the government is trying to restrict it. Even then, it’s not absolute. There is no free speech in your house; ask your mom. And there is no legal right to free speech or expression at work. (If you work for the government, there is a special set of rules that apply.)

So employers are generally free to restrict employee speech, at least while they are at work.

https://www.hrexaminer.com/is-there-free-speech-at-work/
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