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cal1piggy
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Joined: 19 Jul 2017
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 Posted: Thu Oct 10, 2019 11:07 pm Post subject: |
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| Baron Von Humongous wrote: | | maomao wrote: | well this is gotten off topic, but whatever.
To those that worry about Chinese military actions. It's highly unlikely and probably never happen.
Btw, today is not "independence" day for Taiwan, war would have broke out had independence been declared. i think there will be military actions if and only if Taiwan declares independence, which they never will dare to. Things will likely cool down after next year's election.
As for Hong Kong, it's more like child's play than anything else. Why would the central government do anything when Hong Kong pays no money to the central government? Wouldn't they want Hong Kong to die so the investment money and skilled workers flow to the north where the personal and business incomes are taxed?
One interesting observation if you guys have been to the Chinese communities in socal like the san gabriel valley. Back in the 90s, the Chinese population there are mostly Hong konger and Taiwanese. Now a days it's mostly mainland Chinese |
A lot of mainland Chinese want to leave China? |
that is the standard game plan.
get rich by whatever means.
take the money outside china (generally illegally) and buy new home in us, canada or australia (some like london)
with trump, us has become less popular.
i think australia is tops right now. |
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lakersken80
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Joined: 12 Aug 2009
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| Posted: Thu Oct 10, 2019 11:08 pm Post subject: |
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| Baron Von Humongous wrote: | | cal1piggy wrote: | | Baron Von Humongous wrote: | | drae wrote: | | Baron Von Humongous wrote: |
I mean, it's not like China's neighbors and the US haven't also upgraded their military capabilities since then. |
Be careful trying to get to China. One of the reasons everybody's so outraged about the South China sea China's been grabbing is, you know those man made islands they're building? Each one is basically like a stationary air craft carrier, allowing China to project force well away from the coast line and keeping foreign ships away.
It's becoming increasingly hard to get to China militarily. America might be able to do it, but they're pretty much the only country in the world who might try. They fly a bunch of SU35's, which are pretty darn good, they're building their 3rd aircraft carrier which is more than any other country outside of America, they're just getting scary strong. |
No one who knows what's up doesn't not recognize what China's been doing in the South China Sea. I'm a politics guy, not a military guy, so I leave it to the war hawks and missile nuts to know best about the power projection capabilities of the US and Japan within the region. |
what i have read about their military:
1. they focused on stealth aircraft, though they are having trouble with the engine turbine blades. however they are using older engines. not ideal, but their mission is simpler than a hypothetical war with the us. for example, they focused on the stealth performance of the aircraft from the head-on scenario. so looks like an interceptor mission for intercepting american aircraft attacking their homeland. in regards to the engine, again the chinese aircraft does not need the same range as american aircraft. that is because the aircraft carriers have to be parked far from the shore for improved safety.
2. very long range missiles for taking out carriers and aircraft such as early warning and logistics.
i just dont see any scenario where any reasonable outcome justifies the risks and costs with protecting taiwan. |
No personal offense, but you don't seem to see where any reasonable outcome ever justifies anything other than unchallenged Chinese hegemony. |
Exactly, this guy sounds like he watches way too much CCTV propaganda that they push out... |
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Baron Von Humongous
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Joined: 02 Jul 2015
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| Posted: Thu Oct 10, 2019 11:08 pm Post subject: |
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| cal1piggy wrote: | | Baron Von Humongous wrote: | | cal1piggy wrote: | | Baron Von Humongous wrote: | | drae wrote: | | Baron Von Humongous wrote: |
I mean, it's not like China's neighbors and the US haven't also upgraded their military capabilities since then. |
Be careful trying to get to China. One of the reasons everybody's so outraged about the South China sea China's been grabbing is, you know those man made islands they're building? Each one is basically like a stationary air craft carrier, allowing China to project force well away from the coast line and keeping foreign ships away.
It's becoming increasingly hard to get to China militarily. America might be able to do it, but they're pretty much the only country in the world who might try. They fly a bunch of SU35's, which are pretty darn good, they're building their 3rd aircraft carrier which is more than any other country outside of America, they're just getting scary strong. |
No one who knows what's up doesn't not recognize what China's been doing in the South China Sea. I'm a politics guy, not a military guy, so I leave it to the war hawks and missile nuts to know best about the power projection capabilities of the US and Japan within the region. |
what i have read about their military:
1. they focused on stealth aircraft, though they are having trouble with the engine turbine blades. however they are using older engines. not ideal, but their mission is simpler than a hypothetical war with the us. for example, they focused on the stealth performance of the aircraft from the head-on scenario. so looks like an interceptor mission for intercepting american aircraft attacking their homeland. in regards to the engine, again the chinese aircraft does not need the same range as american aircraft. that is because the aircraft carriers have to be parked far from the shore for improved safety.
2. very long range missiles for taking out carriers and aircraft such as early warning and logistics.
i just dont see any scenario where any reasonable outcome justifies the risks and costs with protecting taiwan. |
No personal offense, but you don't seem to see where any reasonable outcome ever justifies anything other than unchallenged Chinese hegemony. |
no offense taken, but that is what happens when a major economic power spends a lot on their military.
just like us taking over cuba in 1963.
push comes to shove, russia is not going to protect cuba. |
The US took Cuba...?
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Baron Von Humongous
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| Posted: Thu Oct 10, 2019 11:09 pm Post subject: |
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| cal1piggy wrote: | | Baron Von Humongous wrote: | | cal1piggy wrote: | | Baron Von Humongous wrote: | | cal1piggy wrote: |
are you asking japan and korea to come to the aid of taiwan.
what is in it for them?
if your answer is to put the bully in check, my answer is it is hopeless. |
Come on. You don't think South Korea and (especially) Japan won't see the Chinese sacking of Taiwan as the co ckatoo in the coal mine?
The U.S. and Japan mutually nullify Article 9 while the ROK and Japan rapidly nuclearize. |
sure, rok and japan would nuclearize
but why come to aid of taiwan and fight a hopeless war.
makes no sense to me as it is all loss and risk and no upside. |
Because China won't stop with Taiwan. |
that is why they nuclearize.
to be honest, i dont think nuclearize would make a difference either. |
Well, the difference is nuking China.
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lakersken80
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Joined: 12 Aug 2009
Posts: 38822
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| Posted: Thu Oct 10, 2019 11:11 pm Post subject: |
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| cal1piggy wrote: | | Baron Von Humongous wrote: | | cal1piggy wrote: | | K2 wrote: | | ^At least they are allowing the sale of F-16Vs to Taiwan |
if they were serious, they would sell f35s.
but that would be insane and cause a massive crisis.
china is starting to field their own stealth fighters and bombers, even if the good engines are not ready. |
The F35s continue to suck which is why they're not selling them to Taiwan. |
that may be true, but if the us was serious, it would be selling f35s.
a f16 has essentially no chance against a stealth fighter. |
That so called "stealth fighter" uses underpowered AL31 engines and their home made engines have never lived up to the hype, which is why they ended up buying Su-35's. |
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cal1piggy
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Joined: 19 Jul 2017
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| Posted: Thu Oct 10, 2019 11:11 pm Post subject: |
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| drae wrote: | | Baron Von Humongous wrote: |
I mean, it's not like China's neighbors and the US haven't also upgraded their military capabilities since then. |
Be careful trying to get to China. One of the reasons everybody's so outraged about the South China sea China's been grabbing is, you know those man made islands they're building? Each one is basically like a stationary air craft carrier, allowing China to project force well away from the coast line and keeping foreign ships away.
It's becoming increasingly hard to get to China militarily. America might be able to do it, but they're pretty much the only country in the world who might try. They fly a bunch of SU35's, which are pretty darn good, they're building their 3rd aircraft carrier which is more than any other country outside of America, they're just getting scary strong. |
actually they are starting to field j-20 which is a stealth fighter.
i think they stole a lot of f22 and f35 secrets for a couple stealth aircraft.
their engine tech is still behind, but that could well change as they buy up ukraine engine engineers.
they are nowhere near the military power of the us.
but their focus in just their backyard.
so it is easy for them to challenge the us there because the us has to cover the entire planet.
plus they have all their land based aircraft plus long range ballistic missiles for attacking carriers. |
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Baron Von Humongous
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Joined: 02 Jul 2015
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| Posted: Thu Oct 10, 2019 11:12 pm Post subject: |
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| lakersken80 wrote: | | Baron Von Humongous wrote: | | cal1piggy wrote: | | Baron Von Humongous wrote: | | drae wrote: | | Baron Von Humongous wrote: |
I mean, it's not like China's neighbors and the US haven't also upgraded their military capabilities since then. |
Be careful trying to get to China. One of the reasons everybody's so outraged about the South China sea China's been grabbing is, you know those man made islands they're building? Each one is basically like a stationary air craft carrier, allowing China to project force well away from the coast line and keeping foreign ships away.
It's becoming increasingly hard to get to China militarily. America might be able to do it, but they're pretty much the only country in the world who might try. They fly a bunch of SU35's, which are pretty darn good, they're building their 3rd aircraft carrier which is more than any other country outside of America, they're just getting scary strong. |
No one who knows what's up doesn't not recognize what China's been doing in the South China Sea. I'm a politics guy, not a military guy, so I leave it to the war hawks and missile nuts to know best about the power projection capabilities of the US and Japan within the region. |
what i have read about their military:
1. they focused on stealth aircraft, though they are having trouble with the engine turbine blades. however they are using older engines. not ideal, but their mission is simpler than a hypothetical war with the us. for example, they focused on the stealth performance of the aircraft from the head-on scenario. so looks like an interceptor mission for intercepting american aircraft attacking their homeland. in regards to the engine, again the chinese aircraft does not need the same range as american aircraft. that is because the aircraft carriers have to be parked far from the shore for improved safety.
2. very long range missiles for taking out carriers and aircraft such as early warning and logistics.
i just dont see any scenario where any reasonable outcome justifies the risks and costs with protecting taiwan. |
No personal offense, but you don't seem to see where any reasonable outcome ever justifies anything other than unchallenged Chinese hegemony. |
Exactly, this guy sounds like he watches way too much CCTV propaganda that they push out... |
No doubt he's a full on tankie invested in CCP supremacy. It's like dealing with a Jeremy Lin fan but instead of Jeremy Lin it's Skeletor Wang Qishan.
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cal1piggy
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Joined: 19 Jul 2017
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| Posted: Thu Oct 10, 2019 11:14 pm Post subject: |
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| lakersken80 wrote: | | cal1piggy wrote: | | Baron Von Humongous wrote: | | cal1piggy wrote: | | K2 wrote: | | ^At least they are allowing the sale of F-16Vs to Taiwan |
if they were serious, they would sell f35s.
but that would be insane and cause a massive crisis.
china is starting to field their own stealth fighters and bombers, even if the good engines are not ready. |
The F35s continue to suck which is why they're not selling them to Taiwan. |
that may be true, but if the us was serious, it would be selling f35s.
a f16 has essentially no chance against a stealth fighter. |
That so called "stealth fighter" uses underpowered AL31 engines and their home made engines have never lived up to the hype, which is why they ended up buying Su-35's. |
yes that is true.
but their mission is different.
god forbid, if there is a war, they will only have to protect their backyard.
so big deal, they cannot fly supersonic without afterburners.
they dont need the range fighting in their backyard.
they used the j20 as interceptor/missile launchers so i dont think dogfighting is a big deal to them. |
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lakersken80
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Joined: 12 Aug 2009
Posts: 38822
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| Posted: Thu Oct 10, 2019 11:15 pm Post subject: |
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| cal1piggy wrote: | | lakersken80 wrote: | | cal1piggy wrote: | | lakersken80 wrote: | | cal1piggy wrote: | | lakersken80 wrote: | | cal1piggy wrote: | | Baron Von Humongous wrote: | | cal1piggy wrote: |
exactly there is no solution.
if china wants to take taiwan, there is no reasonable way to stop them.
like i said earlier, there are better reasons why china does not grab it besides military power, particularly preserving those state-of-the-art semiconductor factories better than anything in china currently. |
Open military conflict isn't the solution, but the DC foreign policy blob is very much gearing up for some future armed conflict with China even if it's limited in scope. |
sure they need to justify the aircraft carriers, stealth planes, submarines etc.
i do not see any scenario in which there is a military conflict between the us and china unless the president literally goes insane |
It already happened in the Korean war.
Plus Taiwan is a huge disadvantage for China unlike Korea where they can just pour troops from the border without a strong navy. |
oh please.
korean war had a china that was war torn and minimal military hardware.
now you are talking about a country fielding stealth aircraft.
even i know that you first take out the airports and achieve air superiority.
from there, you can essentially do whatever you want if you dont care about civilian casualties. |
I don't need airports to deploy anti-aircraft missile systems. |
how long will your precious SAMs last against stealth aircraft and combat uavs?
what is the benefit for the average taiwanese to fight a hopeless war?
it is not as if they are fighting nazi germany where they will all get gassed if they lose
what is the upside for the soldiers. |
Defending their current way of life and political system.
China doesn't want to shed blood because if they fail that could be a huge destabilizing force for the Party. This is why they want to convince Taiwan to give up. What we are seeing is the opposite sentiment among Taiwanese citizens. |
may be i am the type that surrenders to early.
taiwan's way of life is not that different than china's way of life.
my read of taiwan is relative economic stagnation.
not much fun.
again, the price i see in taiwan are those semiconductor factories that are 3 generations ahead of china.
so i would think they can get a really good deal if china made up its mind to take over. |
People in Taiwan do not want to live under CCP rule. They live in a democracy where they elect their leaders. I don't know of any democracy where people are willing to give up their voting rights and be a pound of flesh for the government to do whatever they want with their people as they please. |
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cal1piggy
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Joined: 19 Jul 2017
Posts: 2584
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| Posted: Thu Oct 10, 2019 11:16 pm Post subject: |
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| Baron Von Humongous wrote: | | lakersken80 wrote: | | Baron Von Humongous wrote: | | cal1piggy wrote: | | Baron Von Humongous wrote: | | drae wrote: | | Baron Von Humongous wrote: |
I mean, it's not like China's neighbors and the US haven't also upgraded their military capabilities since then. |
Be careful trying to get to China. One of the reasons everybody's so outraged about the South China sea China's been grabbing is, you know those man made islands they're building? Each one is basically like a stationary air craft carrier, allowing China to project force well away from the coast line and keeping foreign ships away.
It's becoming increasingly hard to get to China militarily. America might be able to do it, but they're pretty much the only country in the world who might try. They fly a bunch of SU35's, which are pretty darn good, they're building their 3rd aircraft carrier which is more than any other country outside of America, they're just getting scary strong. |
No one who knows what's up doesn't not recognize what China's been doing in the South China Sea. I'm a politics guy, not a military guy, so I leave it to the war hawks and missile nuts to know best about the power projection capabilities of the US and Japan within the region. |
what i have read about their military:
1. they focused on stealth aircraft, though they are having trouble with the engine turbine blades. however they are using older engines. not ideal, but their mission is simpler than a hypothetical war with the us. for example, they focused on the stealth performance of the aircraft from the head-on scenario. so looks like an interceptor mission for intercepting american aircraft attacking their homeland. in regards to the engine, again the chinese aircraft does not need the same range as american aircraft. that is because the aircraft carriers have to be parked far from the shore for improved safety.
2. very long range missiles for taking out carriers and aircraft such as early warning and logistics.
i just dont see any scenario where any reasonable outcome justifies the risks and costs with protecting taiwan. |
No personal offense, but you don't seem to see where any reasonable outcome ever justifies anything other than unchallenged Chinese hegemony. |
Exactly, this guy sounds like he watches way too much CCTV propaganda that they push out... |
No doubt he's a full on tankie invested in CCP supremacy. It's like dealing with a Jeremy Lin fan but instead of Jeremy Lin it's Skeletor Wang Qishan. |
actually i am just a realist.
nobody fights risking their life unless they have no choice.
and i have no idea who skeletor wang qishan is. |
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cal1piggy
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Joined: 19 Jul 2017
Posts: 2584
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| Posted: Thu Oct 10, 2019 11:18 pm Post subject: |
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| lakersken80 wrote: | | cal1piggy wrote: | | lakersken80 wrote: | | cal1piggy wrote: | | lakersken80 wrote: | | cal1piggy wrote: | | lakersken80 wrote: | | cal1piggy wrote: | | Baron Von Humongous wrote: | | cal1piggy wrote: |
exactly there is no solution.
if china wants to take taiwan, there is no reasonable way to stop them.
like i said earlier, there are better reasons why china does not grab it besides military power, particularly preserving those state-of-the-art semiconductor factories better than anything in china currently. |
Open military conflict isn't the solution, but the DC foreign policy blob is very much gearing up for some future armed conflict with China even if it's limited in scope. |
sure they need to justify the aircraft carriers, stealth planes, submarines etc.
i do not see any scenario in which there is a military conflict between the us and china unless the president literally goes insane |
It already happened in the Korean war.
Plus Taiwan is a huge disadvantage for China unlike Korea where they can just pour troops from the border without a strong navy. |
oh please.
korean war had a china that was war torn and minimal military hardware.
now you are talking about a country fielding stealth aircraft.
even i know that you first take out the airports and achieve air superiority.
from there, you can essentially do whatever you want if you dont care about civilian casualties. |
I don't need airports to deploy anti-aircraft missile systems. |
how long will your precious SAMs last against stealth aircraft and combat uavs?
what is the benefit for the average taiwanese to fight a hopeless war?
it is not as if they are fighting nazi germany where they will all get gassed if they lose
what is the upside for the soldiers. |
Defending their current way of life and political system.
China doesn't want to shed blood because if they fail that could be a huge destabilizing force for the Party. This is why they want to convince Taiwan to give up. What we are seeing is the opposite sentiment among Taiwanese citizens. |
may be i am the type that surrenders to early.
taiwan's way of life is not that different than china's way of life.
my read of taiwan is relative economic stagnation.
not much fun.
again, the price i see in taiwan are those semiconductor factories that are 3 generations ahead of china.
so i would think they can get a really good deal if china made up its mind to take over. |
People in Taiwan do not want to live under CCP rule. They live in a democracy where they elect their leaders. I don't know of any democracy where people are willing to give up their voting rights and be a pound of flesh for the government to do whatever they want with their people as they please. |
sorry i have not voted since reagan 
i find voting to be a waste of time and i hate politicians everywhere. |
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cal1piggy
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Joined: 19 Jul 2017
Posts: 2584
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| Posted: Thu Oct 10, 2019 11:20 pm Post subject: |
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| Baron Von Humongous wrote: | | cal1piggy wrote: | | Baron Von Humongous wrote: | | cal1piggy wrote: | | Baron Von Humongous wrote: | | cal1piggy wrote: |
are you asking japan and korea to come to the aid of taiwan.
what is in it for them?
if your answer is to put the bully in check, my answer is it is hopeless. |
Come on. You don't think South Korea and (especially) Japan won't see the Chinese sacking of Taiwan as the co ckatoo in the coal mine?
The U.S. and Japan mutually nullify Article 9 while the ROK and Japan rapidly nuclearize. |
sure, rok and japan would nuclearize
but why come to aid of taiwan and fight a hopeless war.
makes no sense to me as it is all loss and risk and no upside. |
Because China won't stop with Taiwan. |
that is why they nuclearize.
to be honest, i dont think nuclearize would make a difference either. |
Well, the difference is nuking China. |
if u nuke china, u will die.
if u surrender, u get to live.
i choose live all the time unless it is isis or hitler |
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cal1piggy
Star Player
Joined: 19 Jul 2017
Posts: 2584
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| Posted: Thu Oct 10, 2019 11:21 pm Post subject: |
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| Baron Von Humongous wrote: | | cal1piggy wrote: | | Baron Von Humongous wrote: | | cal1piggy wrote: | | Baron Von Humongous wrote: | | drae wrote: | | Baron Von Humongous wrote: |
I mean, it's not like China's neighbors and the US haven't also upgraded their military capabilities since then. |
Be careful trying to get to China. One of the reasons everybody's so outraged about the South China sea China's been grabbing is, you know those man made islands they're building? Each one is basically like a stationary air craft carrier, allowing China to project force well away from the coast line and keeping foreign ships away.
It's becoming increasingly hard to get to China militarily. America might be able to do it, but they're pretty much the only country in the world who might try. They fly a bunch of SU35's, which are pretty darn good, they're building their 3rd aircraft carrier which is more than any other country outside of America, they're just getting scary strong. |
No one who knows what's up doesn't not recognize what China's been doing in the South China Sea. I'm a politics guy, not a military guy, so I leave it to the war hawks and missile nuts to know best about the power projection capabilities of the US and Japan within the region. |
what i have read about their military:
1. they focused on stealth aircraft, though they are having trouble with the engine turbine blades. however they are using older engines. not ideal, but their mission is simpler than a hypothetical war with the us. for example, they focused on the stealth performance of the aircraft from the head-on scenario. so looks like an interceptor mission for intercepting american aircraft attacking their homeland. in regards to the engine, again the chinese aircraft does not need the same range as american aircraft. that is because the aircraft carriers have to be parked far from the shore for improved safety.
2. very long range missiles for taking out carriers and aircraft such as early warning and logistics.
i just dont see any scenario where any reasonable outcome justifies the risks and costs with protecting taiwan. |
No personal offense, but you don't seem to see where any reasonable outcome ever justifies anything other than unchallenged Chinese hegemony. |
no offense taken, but that is what happens when a major economic power spends a lot on their military.
just like us taking over cuba in 1963.
push comes to shove, russia is not going to protect cuba. |
The US took Cuba...? |
my point is the us could have taken cuba and ussr would have backed down if push comes to shove. |
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lakersken80
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Joined: 12 Aug 2009
Posts: 38822
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| Posted: Thu Oct 10, 2019 11:23 pm Post subject: |
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| cal1piggy wrote: | | lakersken80 wrote: | | cal1piggy wrote: | | lakersken80 wrote: | | cal1piggy wrote: | | lakersken80 wrote: | | cal1piggy wrote: | | lakersken80 wrote: | | cal1piggy wrote: | | Baron Von Humongous wrote: | | cal1piggy wrote: |
exactly there is no solution.
if china wants to take taiwan, there is no reasonable way to stop them.
like i said earlier, there are better reasons why china does not grab it besides military power, particularly preserving those state-of-the-art semiconductor factories better than anything in china currently. |
Open military conflict isn't the solution, but the DC foreign policy blob is very much gearing up for some future armed conflict with China even if it's limited in scope. |
sure they need to justify the aircraft carriers, stealth planes, submarines etc.
i do not see any scenario in which there is a military conflict between the us and china unless the president literally goes insane |
It already happened in the Korean war.
Plus Taiwan is a huge disadvantage for China unlike Korea where they can just pour troops from the border without a strong navy. |
oh please.
korean war had a china that was war torn and minimal military hardware.
now you are talking about a country fielding stealth aircraft.
even i know that you first take out the airports and achieve air superiority.
from there, you can essentially do whatever you want if you dont care about civilian casualties. |
I don't need airports to deploy anti-aircraft missile systems. |
how long will your precious SAMs last against stealth aircraft and combat uavs?
what is the benefit for the average taiwanese to fight a hopeless war?
it is not as if they are fighting nazi germany where they will all get gassed if they lose
what is the upside for the soldiers. |
Defending their current way of life and political system.
China doesn't want to shed blood because if they fail that could be a huge destabilizing force for the Party. This is why they want to convince Taiwan to give up. What we are seeing is the opposite sentiment among Taiwanese citizens. |
may be i am the type that surrenders to early.
taiwan's way of life is not that different than china's way of life.
my read of taiwan is relative economic stagnation.
not much fun.
again, the price i see in taiwan are those semiconductor factories that are 3 generations ahead of china.
so i would think they can get a really good deal if china made up its mind to take over. |
People in Taiwan do not want to live under CCP rule. They live in a democracy where they elect their leaders. I don't know of any democracy where people are willing to give up their voting rights and be a pound of flesh for the government to do whatever they want with their people as they please. |
sorry i have not voted since reagan
i find voting to be a waste of time and i hate politicians everywhere. |
Claims to vote in US elections in the past.
Defends the CCP with the fury of the fire of a thousand suns.....
Yeah, ok....
If you hate politicians whats worst than giving up your rights to a guy who has a lifetime appointment to the position like those in the CCP.
Last edited by lakersken80 on Thu Oct 10, 2019 11:23 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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Baron Von Humongous
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Joined: 02 Jul 2015
Posts: 32979
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| Posted: Thu Oct 10, 2019 11:23 pm Post subject: |
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| cal1piggy wrote: | | Baron Von Humongous wrote: | | cal1piggy wrote: | | Baron Von Humongous wrote: | | cal1piggy wrote: | | Baron Von Humongous wrote: | | drae wrote: | | Baron Von Humongous wrote: |
I mean, it's not like China's neighbors and the US haven't also upgraded their military capabilities since then. |
Be careful trying to get to China. One of the reasons everybody's so outraged about the South China sea China's been grabbing is, you know those man made islands they're building? Each one is basically like a stationary air craft carrier, allowing China to project force well away from the coast line and keeping foreign ships away.
It's becoming increasingly hard to get to China militarily. America might be able to do it, but they're pretty much the only country in the world who might try. They fly a bunch of SU35's, which are pretty darn good, they're building their 3rd aircraft carrier which is more than any other country outside of America, they're just getting scary strong. |
No one who knows what's up doesn't not recognize what China's been doing in the South China Sea. I'm a politics guy, not a military guy, so I leave it to the war hawks and missile nuts to know best about the power projection capabilities of the US and Japan within the region. |
what i have read about their military:
1. they focused on stealth aircraft, though they are having trouble with the engine turbine blades. however they are using older engines. not ideal, but their mission is simpler than a hypothetical war with the us. for example, they focused on the stealth performance of the aircraft from the head-on scenario. so looks like an interceptor mission for intercepting american aircraft attacking their homeland. in regards to the engine, again the chinese aircraft does not need the same range as american aircraft. that is because the aircraft carriers have to be parked far from the shore for improved safety.
2. very long range missiles for taking out carriers and aircraft such as early warning and logistics.
i just dont see any scenario where any reasonable outcome justifies the risks and costs with protecting taiwan. |
No personal offense, but you don't seem to see where any reasonable outcome ever justifies anything other than unchallenged Chinese hegemony. |
no offense taken, but that is what happens when a major economic power spends a lot on their military.
just like us taking over cuba in 1963.
push comes to shove, russia is not going to protect cuba. |
The US took Cuba...? |
my point is the us could have taken cuba and ussr would have backed down if push comes to shove. |
K
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Baron Von Humongous
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Joined: 02 Jul 2015
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| Posted: Thu Oct 10, 2019 11:25 pm Post subject: |
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| cal1piggy wrote: | | Baron Von Humongous wrote: | | cal1piggy wrote: | | Baron Von Humongous wrote: | | cal1piggy wrote: | | Baron Von Humongous wrote: | | cal1piggy wrote: |
are you asking japan and korea to come to the aid of taiwan.
what is in it for them?
if your answer is to put the bully in check, my answer is it is hopeless. |
Come on. You don't think South Korea and (especially) Japan won't see the Chinese sacking of Taiwan as the co ckatoo in the coal mine?
The U.S. and Japan mutually nullify Article 9 while the ROK and Japan rapidly nuclearize. |
sure, rok and japan would nuclearize
but why come to aid of taiwan and fight a hopeless war.
makes no sense to me as it is all loss and risk and no upside. |
Because China won't stop with Taiwan. |
that is why they nuclearize.
to be honest, i dont think nuclearize would make a difference either. |
Well, the difference is nuking China. |
if u nuke china, u will die.
if u surrender, u get to live.
i choose live all the time unless it is isis or hitler |
Who will die? The Chinese?
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cal1piggy
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Joined: 19 Jul 2017
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| Posted: Thu Oct 10, 2019 11:28 pm Post subject: |
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| lakersken80 wrote: | | cal1piggy wrote: | | lakersken80 wrote: | | cal1piggy wrote: | | lakersken80 wrote: | | cal1piggy wrote: | | lakersken80 wrote: | | cal1piggy wrote: | | lakersken80 wrote: | | cal1piggy wrote: | | Baron Von Humongous wrote: | | cal1piggy wrote: |
exactly there is no solution.
if china wants to take taiwan, there is no reasonable way to stop them.
like i said earlier, there are better reasons why china does not grab it besides military power, particularly preserving those state-of-the-art semiconductor factories better than anything in china currently. |
Open military conflict isn't the solution, but the DC foreign policy blob is very much gearing up for some future armed conflict with China even if it's limited in scope. |
sure they need to justify the aircraft carriers, stealth planes, submarines etc.
i do not see any scenario in which there is a military conflict between the us and china unless the president literally goes insane |
It already happened in the Korean war.
Plus Taiwan is a huge disadvantage for China unlike Korea where they can just pour troops from the border without a strong navy. |
oh please.
korean war had a china that was war torn and minimal military hardware.
now you are talking about a country fielding stealth aircraft.
even i know that you first take out the airports and achieve air superiority.
from there, you can essentially do whatever you want if you dont care about civilian casualties. |
I don't need airports to deploy anti-aircraft missile systems. |
how long will your precious SAMs last against stealth aircraft and combat uavs?
what is the benefit for the average taiwanese to fight a hopeless war?
it is not as if they are fighting nazi germany where they will all get gassed if they lose
what is the upside for the soldiers. |
Defending their current way of life and political system.
China doesn't want to shed blood because if they fail that could be a huge destabilizing force for the Party. This is why they want to convince Taiwan to give up. What we are seeing is the opposite sentiment among Taiwanese citizens. |
may be i am the type that surrenders to early.
taiwan's way of life is not that different than china's way of life.
my read of taiwan is relative economic stagnation.
not much fun.
again, the price i see in taiwan are those semiconductor factories that are 3 generations ahead of china.
so i would think they can get a really good deal if china made up its mind to take over. |
People in Taiwan do not want to live under CCP rule. They live in a democracy where they elect their leaders. I don't know of any democracy where people are willing to give up their voting rights and be a pound of flesh for the government to do whatever they want with their people as they please. |
sorry i have not voted since reagan
i find voting to be a waste of time and i hate politicians everywhere. |
Claims to vote in US elections in the past.
Defends the CCP with the fury of the fire of a thousand suns.....
Yeah, ok....
If you hate politicians whats worst than giving up your rights to a guy who has a lifetime appointment to the position like those in the CCP. |
i said i have NOT voted since reagan.
i am only saying ccp can take taiwan and nobody is going to fight them because people are selfish.
just like trump did with the kurds.
i go to china to make money and get good chinese food, not to enjoy their political system
imo the us political system is only marginally better, and if those isis members are released from syria, i would feel much safer in china with their AI based surveillance system geared to track down minorities. |
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Baron Von Humongous
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| Posted: Thu Oct 10, 2019 11:28 pm Post subject: |
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I mean, if you want to test that tenuous Chinese-Russian alliance when it comes to mutually assured destruction, good on ya, tankie.
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cal1piggy
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Joined: 19 Jul 2017
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| Posted: Thu Oct 10, 2019 11:29 pm Post subject: |
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| Baron Von Humongous wrote: | | cal1piggy wrote: | | Baron Von Humongous wrote: | | cal1piggy wrote: | | Baron Von Humongous wrote: | | cal1piggy wrote: | | Baron Von Humongous wrote: | | cal1piggy wrote: |
are you asking japan and korea to come to the aid of taiwan.
what is in it for them?
if your answer is to put the bully in check, my answer is it is hopeless. |
Come on. You don't think South Korea and (especially) Japan won't see the Chinese sacking of Taiwan as the co ckatoo in the coal mine?
The U.S. and Japan mutually nullify Article 9 while the ROK and Japan rapidly nuclearize. |
sure, rok and japan would nuclearize
but why come to aid of taiwan and fight a hopeless war.
makes no sense to me as it is all loss and risk and no upside. |
Because China won't stop with Taiwan. |
that is why they nuclearize.
to be honest, i dont think nuclearize would make a difference either. |
Well, the difference is nuking China. |
if u nuke china, u will die.
if u surrender, u get to live.
i choose live all the time unless it is isis or hitler |
Who will die? The Chinese? |
i am putting myself in the shoes of the japanese leader.
if i nuke china, they will nuke me and i am dead.
the chinese will also die but i dont really care because i would be dead |
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cal1piggy
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| Posted: Thu Oct 10, 2019 11:31 pm Post subject: |
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| Baron Von Humongous wrote: | | I mean, if you want to test that tenuous Chinese-Russian alliance when it comes to mutually assured destruction, good on ya, tankie. |
what chinese russian alliance?
how is that at all reliable
how is that relevant
i have no idea what a tankie is. |
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Baron Von Humongous
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| Posted: Thu Oct 10, 2019 11:33 pm Post subject: |
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How many refugees does China accept per annum?
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Baron Von Humongous
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| Posted: Thu Oct 10, 2019 11:34 pm Post subject: |
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| cal1piggy wrote: | | Baron Von Humongous wrote: | | cal1piggy wrote: | | Baron Von Humongous wrote: | | cal1piggy wrote: | | Baron Von Humongous wrote: | | cal1piggy wrote: | | Baron Von Humongous wrote: | | cal1piggy wrote: |
are you asking japan and korea to come to the aid of taiwan.
what is in it for them?
if your answer is to put the bully in check, my answer is it is hopeless. |
Come on. You don't think South Korea and (especially) Japan won't see the Chinese sacking of Taiwan as the co ckatoo in the coal mine?
The U.S. and Japan mutually nullify Article 9 while the ROK and Japan rapidly nuclearize. |
sure, rok and japan would nuclearize
but why come to aid of taiwan and fight a hopeless war.
makes no sense to me as it is all loss and risk and no upside. |
Because China won't stop with Taiwan. |
that is why they nuclearize.
to be honest, i dont think nuclearize would make a difference either. |
Well, the difference is nuking China. |
if u nuke china, u will die.
if u surrender, u get to live.
i choose live all the time unless it is isis or hitler |
Who will die? The Chinese? |
i am putting myself in the shoes of the japanese leader.
if i nuke china, they will nuke me and i am dead.
the chinese will also die but i dont really care because i would be dead |
They wouldn't aim them at the US?
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cal1piggy
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| Posted: Thu Oct 10, 2019 11:35 pm Post subject: |
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| Baron Von Humongous wrote: | | How many refugees does China accept per annum? |
why would china want to accept any refugees?
my guess is if they had enough control, zero. |
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Baron Von Humongous
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Joined: 02 Jul 2015
Posts: 32979
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| Posted: Thu Oct 10, 2019 11:35 pm Post subject: |
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| cal1piggy wrote: | | Baron Von Humongous wrote: | | I mean, if you want to test that tenuous Chinese-Russian alliance when it comes to mutually assured destruction, good on ya, tankie. |
what chinese russian alliance?
how is that at all reliable
how is that relevant
i have no idea what a tankie is. |
Shhh
ur
naught
bean
addressed
tankie
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drae
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Joined: 13 Nov 2018
Posts: 16145
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| Posted: Thu Oct 10, 2019 11:36 pm Post subject: |
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| Baron Von Humongous wrote: | | I mean, if you want to test that tenuous Chinese-Russian alliance when it comes to mutually assured destruction, good on ya, tankie. |
Dude, the only people not deathly afraid of Russia by themselves is America. Because the minute you seriously go after Russia is the minute you kiss Europe goodbye. It's like the minute you go after NK is the minute you kiss SK goodbye.
America is propping up the West, you know this right? |
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