Lakers vs Nets games in China might get canceled (update: leaning towards letting Nets/Lakers play)
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drae
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PostPosted: Thu Oct 10, 2019 8:17 pm    Post subject:

Baron Von Humongous wrote:
cal1piggy wrote:
governator wrote:
Baron Von Humongous wrote:
drae wrote:
Baron Von Humongous wrote:
drae wrote:
3baller wrote:
Honestly, what the protesters are doing is quite commendable. They're willing to risk being fully integrated into communist China to prevent future encroachment by the CCP on their rights as stated and protected in their basic law. Liberty or death and all.


They're going to be fully integrated anyway, in the year 2047. They have some autonomy until that time. However China has been gradually stripping away that autonomy in a bid to ease the transition once 2047 hits (lessening financial reliance, bussing in mainland Chinese, news is in Mandarin now etc etc.) Some will say it's in violation of the agreement, but having a fully free society suddenly be reefed into China's political system would be a huge culture shock.

A showdown was always going to happen, it was only a matter of when. I just don't see HK winning it

We'll see where the world is at that time, but hopefully there are a number of nations around the globe willing to expedite accepting Hong Kong immigrants. Unfortunately Johnnie To will probably be dead by then.


Wealthy Hong Kong citizens are apparently already leaving for places like Singapore

Makes sense. Taiwan will no doubt be next.


No way, it’s Taiwan Independence Day by the way. Taiwan is a full fledge country with its military


yes, my friend is having a great time today.

taiwan may have a military, but imo it is largely irrelevant.
i am not a military expert, but i believe china could easily take out all their airports with medium range ballistic missiles in the first hour of a conflict.

i think there are much better reasons why they do not want to invade.
like international relations as well as desiring the state-of-the-art semiconductor factories to remain intact.

I'm both surprised and not surprised that Taiwan hasn't come up once during the Dem primary debates. I don't think there's even been a South China Sea question.

Stupid provincial-minded Americans.


I'd be very surprised if a credible Dem nominee does mention either of those things. Basically because if they mention them there'll be pressure to act on those tough words and I really doubt the Dems want anything to do with China right now.
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lakersken80
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PostPosted: Thu Oct 10, 2019 8:26 pm    Post subject:

cal1piggy wrote:
governator wrote:
Baron Von Humongous wrote:
drae wrote:
Baron Von Humongous wrote:
drae wrote:
3baller wrote:
Honestly, what the protesters are doing is quite commendable. They're willing to risk being fully integrated into communist China to prevent future encroachment by the CCP on their rights as stated and protected in their basic law. Liberty or death and all.


They're going to be fully integrated anyway, in the year 2047. They have some autonomy until that time. However China has been gradually stripping away that autonomy in a bid to ease the transition once 2047 hits (lessening financial reliance, bussing in mainland Chinese, news is in Mandarin now etc etc.) Some will say it's in violation of the agreement, but having a fully free society suddenly be reefed into China's political system would be a huge culture shock.

A showdown was always going to happen, it was only a matter of when. I just don't see HK winning it

We'll see where the world is at that time, but hopefully there are a number of nations around the globe willing to expedite accepting Hong Kong immigrants. Unfortunately Johnnie To will probably be dead by then.


Wealthy Hong Kong citizens are apparently already leaving for places like Singapore

Makes sense. Taiwan will no doubt be next.


No way, it’s Taiwan Independence Day by the way. Taiwan is a full fledge country with its military


yes, my friend is having a great time today.

taiwan may have a military, but imo it is largely irrelevant.
i am not a military expert, but i believe china could easily take out all their airports with medium range ballistic missiles in the first hour of a conflict.

i think there are much better reasons why they do not want to invade.
like international relations as well as desiring the state-of-the-art semiconductor factories to remain intact.


You need to land troops into Taiwan to take the territory....an amphibious assault is one of the most difficult things to accomplish in warfare. Not only do you need to land enough troops to take over the territory you also have to make sure enough troops survive the journey over water where they are very vulnerable to being tracked or sunk. Taiwan would still have the man advantage even if China has much more advanced weaponry. Lets not even forget you need enough equipment to move that many troops across the strait, plus they would have to to it in a timely matter before any help arrives.
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cal1piggy
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PostPosted: Thu Oct 10, 2019 8:27 pm    Post subject:

drae wrote:
Baron Von Humongous wrote:
cal1piggy wrote:
governator wrote:
Baron Von Humongous wrote:
drae wrote:
Baron Von Humongous wrote:
drae wrote:
3baller wrote:
Honestly, what the protesters are doing is quite commendable. They're willing to risk being fully integrated into communist China to prevent future encroachment by the CCP on their rights as stated and protected in their basic law. Liberty or death and all.


They're going to be fully integrated anyway, in the year 2047. They have some autonomy until that time. However China has been gradually stripping away that autonomy in a bid to ease the transition once 2047 hits (lessening financial reliance, bussing in mainland Chinese, news is in Mandarin now etc etc.) Some will say it's in violation of the agreement, but having a fully free society suddenly be reefed into China's political system would be a huge culture shock.

A showdown was always going to happen, it was only a matter of when. I just don't see HK winning it

We'll see where the world is at that time, but hopefully there are a number of nations around the globe willing to expedite accepting Hong Kong immigrants. Unfortunately Johnnie To will probably be dead by then.


Wealthy Hong Kong citizens are apparently already leaving for places like Singapore

Makes sense. Taiwan will no doubt be next.


No way, it’s Taiwan Independence Day by the way. Taiwan is a full fledge country with its military


yes, my friend is having a great time today.

taiwan may have a military, but imo it is largely irrelevant.
i am not a military expert, but i believe china could easily take out all their airports with medium range ballistic missiles in the first hour of a conflict.

i think there are much better reasons why they do not want to invade.
like international relations as well as desiring the state-of-the-art semiconductor factories to remain intact.

I'm both surprised and not surprised that Taiwan hasn't come up once during the Dem primary debates. I don't think there's even been a South China Sea question.

Stupid provincial-minded Americans.


I'd be very surprised if a credible Dem nominee does mention either of those things. Basically because if they mention them there'll be pressure to act on those tough words and I really doubt the Dems want anything to do with China right now.


exactly there is no solution.
if china wants to take taiwan, there is no reasonable way to stop them.
like i said earlier, there are better reasons why china does not grab it besides military power, particularly preserving those state-of-the-art semiconductor factories better than anything in china currently.
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cal1piggy
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PostPosted: Thu Oct 10, 2019 8:31 pm    Post subject:

lakersken80 wrote:
cal1piggy wrote:
governator wrote:
Baron Von Humongous wrote:
drae wrote:
Baron Von Humongous wrote:
drae wrote:
3baller wrote:
Honestly, what the protesters are doing is quite commendable. They're willing to risk being fully integrated into communist China to prevent future encroachment by the CCP on their rights as stated and protected in their basic law. Liberty or death and all.


They're going to be fully integrated anyway, in the year 2047. They have some autonomy until that time. However China has been gradually stripping away that autonomy in a bid to ease the transition once 2047 hits (lessening financial reliance, bussing in mainland Chinese, news is in Mandarin now etc etc.) Some will say it's in violation of the agreement, but having a fully free society suddenly be reefed into China's political system would be a huge culture shock.

A showdown was always going to happen, it was only a matter of when. I just don't see HK winning it

We'll see where the world is at that time, but hopefully there are a number of nations around the globe willing to expedite accepting Hong Kong immigrants. Unfortunately Johnnie To will probably be dead by then.


Wealthy Hong Kong citizens are apparently already leaving for places like Singapore

Makes sense. Taiwan will no doubt be next.


No way, it’s Taiwan Independence Day by the way. Taiwan is a full fledge country with its military


yes, my friend is having a great time today.

taiwan may have a military, but imo it is largely irrelevant.
i am not a military expert, but i believe china could easily take out all their airports with medium range ballistic missiles in the first hour of a conflict.

i think there are much better reasons why they do not want to invade.
like international relations as well as desiring the state-of-the-art semiconductor factories to remain intact.


You need to land troops into Taiwan to take the territory....an amphibious assault is one of the most difficult things to accomplish in warfare. Not only do you need to land enough troops to take over the territory you also have to make sure enough troops survive the journey over water where they are very vulnerable to being tracked or sunk. Taiwan would still have the man advantage even if China has much more advanced weaponry. Lets not even forget you need enough equipment to move that many troops across the strait, plus they would have to to it in a timely matter before any help arrives.


there is no point to fight if china makes the ultimatum.
the outcome is not in doubt.
it would just make it worse for the leadership and the citizens just like those hong kong rioters are doing.
offer to surrender but negotiate a better arrangement using what the mainland wants.
that is hold those semiconductor factories as the hostage.
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lakersken80
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PostPosted: Thu Oct 10, 2019 8:35 pm    Post subject:

cal1piggy wrote:
lakersken80 wrote:
cal1piggy wrote:
governator wrote:
Baron Von Humongous wrote:
drae wrote:
Baron Von Humongous wrote:
drae wrote:
3baller wrote:
Honestly, what the protesters are doing is quite commendable. They're willing to risk being fully integrated into communist China to prevent future encroachment by the CCP on their rights as stated and protected in their basic law. Liberty or death and all.


They're going to be fully integrated anyway, in the year 2047. They have some autonomy until that time. However China has been gradually stripping away that autonomy in a bid to ease the transition once 2047 hits (lessening financial reliance, bussing in mainland Chinese, news is in Mandarin now etc etc.) Some will say it's in violation of the agreement, but having a fully free society suddenly be reefed into China's political system would be a huge culture shock.

A showdown was always going to happen, it was only a matter of when. I just don't see HK winning it

We'll see where the world is at that time, but hopefully there are a number of nations around the globe willing to expedite accepting Hong Kong immigrants. Unfortunately Johnnie To will probably be dead by then.


Wealthy Hong Kong citizens are apparently already leaving for places like Singapore

Makes sense. Taiwan will no doubt be next.


No way, it’s Taiwan Independence Day by the way. Taiwan is a full fledge country with its military


yes, my friend is having a great time today.

taiwan may have a military, but imo it is largely irrelevant.
i am not a military expert, but i believe china could easily take out all their airports with medium range ballistic missiles in the first hour of a conflict.

i think there are much better reasons why they do not want to invade.
like international relations as well as desiring the state-of-the-art semiconductor factories to remain intact.


You need to land troops into Taiwan to take the territory....an amphibious assault is one of the most difficult things to accomplish in warfare. Not only do you need to land enough troops to take over the territory you also have to make sure enough troops survive the journey over water where they are very vulnerable to being tracked or sunk. Taiwan would still have the man advantage even if China has much more advanced weaponry. Lets not even forget you need enough equipment to move that many troops across the strait, plus they would have to to it in a timely matter before any help arrives.


there is no point to fight if china makes the ultimatum.
the outcome is not in doubt.
it would just make it worse for the leadership and the citizens just like those hong kong rioters are doing.
offer to surrender but negotiate a better arrangement using what the mainland wants.
that is hold those semiconductor factories as the hostage.


Thats some really strong kool-aid you are drinking there.
There is a very strong sentiment against the CCP taking over the island. The Taiwanese will fight with every man, women and child if necessary.
Not to mention the US military will not let Taiwan fall and put their other bases in range.


Last edited by lakersken80 on Thu Oct 10, 2019 8:36 pm; edited 1 time in total
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Baron Von Humongous
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PostPosted: Thu Oct 10, 2019 8:36 pm    Post subject:

cal1piggy wrote:
drae wrote:
Baron Von Humongous wrote:
cal1piggy wrote:
governator wrote:
Baron Von Humongous wrote:
drae wrote:
Baron Von Humongous wrote:
drae wrote:
3baller wrote:
Honestly, what the protesters are doing is quite commendable. They're willing to risk being fully integrated into communist China to prevent future encroachment by the CCP on their rights as stated and protected in their basic law. Liberty or death and all.


They're going to be fully integrated anyway, in the year 2047. They have some autonomy until that time. However China has been gradually stripping away that autonomy in a bid to ease the transition once 2047 hits (lessening financial reliance, bussing in mainland Chinese, news is in Mandarin now etc etc.) Some will say it's in violation of the agreement, but having a fully free society suddenly be reefed into China's political system would be a huge culture shock.

A showdown was always going to happen, it was only a matter of when. I just don't see HK winning it

We'll see where the world is at that time, but hopefully there are a number of nations around the globe willing to expedite accepting Hong Kong immigrants. Unfortunately Johnnie To will probably be dead by then.


Wealthy Hong Kong citizens are apparently already leaving for places like Singapore

Makes sense. Taiwan will no doubt be next.


No way, it’s Taiwan Independence Day by the way. Taiwan is a full fledge country with its military


yes, my friend is having a great time today.

taiwan may have a military, but imo it is largely irrelevant.
i am not a military expert, but i believe china could easily take out all their airports with medium range ballistic missiles in the first hour of a conflict.

i think there are much better reasons why they do not want to invade.
like international relations as well as desiring the state-of-the-art semiconductor factories to remain intact.

I'm both surprised and not surprised that Taiwan hasn't come up once during the Dem primary debates. I don't think there's even been a South China Sea question.

Stupid provincial-minded Americans.


I'd be very surprised if a credible Dem nominee does mention either of those things. Basically because if they mention them there'll be pressure to act on those tough words and I really doubt the Dems want anything to do with China right now.


exactly there is no solution.
if china wants to take taiwan, there is no reasonable way to stop them.
like i said earlier, there are better reasons why china does not grab it besides military power, particularly preserving those state-of-the-art semiconductor factories better than anything in china currently.

Open military conflict isn't the solution, but the DC foreign policy blob is very much gearing up for some future armed conflict with China even if it's limited in scope.
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Baron Von Humongous
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PostPosted: Thu Oct 10, 2019 8:39 pm    Post subject:

lakersken80 wrote:
cal1piggy wrote:
lakersken80 wrote:
cal1piggy wrote:
governator wrote:
Baron Von Humongous wrote:
drae wrote:
Baron Von Humongous wrote:
drae wrote:
3baller wrote:
Honestly, what the protesters are doing is quite commendable. They're willing to risk being fully integrated into communist China to prevent future encroachment by the CCP on their rights as stated and protected in their basic law. Liberty or death and all.


They're going to be fully integrated anyway, in the year 2047. They have some autonomy until that time. However China has been gradually stripping away that autonomy in a bid to ease the transition once 2047 hits (lessening financial reliance, bussing in mainland Chinese, news is in Mandarin now etc etc.) Some will say it's in violation of the agreement, but having a fully free society suddenly be reefed into China's political system would be a huge culture shock.

A showdown was always going to happen, it was only a matter of when. I just don't see HK winning it

We'll see where the world is at that time, but hopefully there are a number of nations around the globe willing to expedite accepting Hong Kong immigrants. Unfortunately Johnnie To will probably be dead by then.


Wealthy Hong Kong citizens are apparently already leaving for places like Singapore

Makes sense. Taiwan will no doubt be next.


No way, it’s Taiwan Independence Day by the way. Taiwan is a full fledge country with its military


yes, my friend is having a great time today.

taiwan may have a military, but imo it is largely irrelevant.
i am not a military expert, but i believe china could easily take out all their airports with medium range ballistic missiles in the first hour of a conflict.

i think there are much better reasons why they do not want to invade.
like international relations as well as desiring the state-of-the-art semiconductor factories to remain intact.


You need to land troops into Taiwan to take the territory....an amphibious assault is one of the most difficult things to accomplish in warfare. Not only do you need to land enough troops to take over the territory you also have to make sure enough troops survive the journey over water where they are very vulnerable to being tracked or sunk. Taiwan would still have the man advantage even if China has much more advanced weaponry. Lets not even forget you need enough equipment to move that many troops across the strait, plus they would have to to it in a timely matter before any help arrives.


there is no point to fight if china makes the ultimatum.
the outcome is not in doubt.
it would just make it worse for the leadership and the citizens just like those hong kong rioters are doing.
offer to surrender but negotiate a better arrangement using what the mainland wants.
that is hold those semiconductor factories as the hostage.


Thats some really strong kool-aid you are drinking there.
There is a very strong sentiment against the CCP taking over the island. The Taiwanese will fight with every man, women and child if necessary.
Not to mention the US military will not let Taiwan fall and put their other bases in range.

1996 all over again.
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cal1piggy
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PostPosted: Thu Oct 10, 2019 8:40 pm    Post subject:

lakersken80 wrote:
cal1piggy wrote:
lakersken80 wrote:
cal1piggy wrote:
governator wrote:
Baron Von Humongous wrote:
drae wrote:
Baron Von Humongous wrote:
drae wrote:
3baller wrote:
Honestly, what the protesters are doing is quite commendable. They're willing to risk being fully integrated into communist China to prevent future encroachment by the CCP on their rights as stated and protected in their basic law. Liberty or death and all.


They're going to be fully integrated anyway, in the year 2047. They have some autonomy until that time. However China has been gradually stripping away that autonomy in a bid to ease the transition once 2047 hits (lessening financial reliance, bussing in mainland Chinese, news is in Mandarin now etc etc.) Some will say it's in violation of the agreement, but having a fully free society suddenly be reefed into China's political system would be a huge culture shock.

A showdown was always going to happen, it was only a matter of when. I just don't see HK winning it

We'll see where the world is at that time, but hopefully there are a number of nations around the globe willing to expedite accepting Hong Kong immigrants. Unfortunately Johnnie To will probably be dead by then.


Wealthy Hong Kong citizens are apparently already leaving for places like Singapore

Makes sense. Taiwan will no doubt be next.


No way, it’s Taiwan Independence Day by the way. Taiwan is a full fledge country with its military


yes, my friend is having a great time today.

taiwan may have a military, but imo it is largely irrelevant.
i am not a military expert, but i believe china could easily take out all their airports with medium range ballistic missiles in the first hour of a conflict.

i think there are much better reasons why they do not want to invade.
like international relations as well as desiring the state-of-the-art semiconductor factories to remain intact.


You need to land troops into Taiwan to take the territory....an amphibious assault is one of the most difficult things to accomplish in warfare. Not only do you need to land enough troops to take over the territory you also have to make sure enough troops survive the journey over water where they are very vulnerable to being tracked or sunk. Taiwan would still have the man advantage even if China has much more advanced weaponry. Lets not even forget you need enough equipment to move that many troops across the strait, plus they would have to to it in a timely matter before any help arrives.


there is no point to fight if china makes the ultimatum.
the outcome is not in doubt.
it would just make it worse for the leadership and the citizens just like those hong kong rioters are doing.
offer to surrender but negotiate a better arrangement using what the mainland wants.
that is hold those semiconductor factories as the hostage.


Thats some really strong kool-aid you are drinking there.
There is a very strong sentiment against the CCP taking over the island. The Taiwanese will fight with every man, women and child if necessary.
Not to mention the US military will not let Taiwan fall and put their other base in range.


i actually dont want china to take over taiwan.
however, i care about the welfare of the citizens in taiwan if such a situation arises.
i dont believe in fighting to the last man when there is no benefit.
imo the us would not come to taiwan's military aid, particularly if trump is president.
the cost would be far too severe in both human life and in weapons and in the stock market collapse.
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K2
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PostPosted: Thu Oct 10, 2019 8:42 pm    Post subject:

^At least they are allowing the sale of F-16Vs to Taiwan
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PostPosted: Thu Oct 10, 2019 8:42 pm    Post subject:

Baron Von Humongous wrote:
cal1piggy wrote:
drae wrote:
Baron Von Humongous wrote:
cal1piggy wrote:
governator wrote:
Baron Von Humongous wrote:
drae wrote:
Baron Von Humongous wrote:
drae wrote:
3baller wrote:
Honestly, what the protesters are doing is quite commendable. They're willing to risk being fully integrated into communist China to prevent future encroachment by the CCP on their rights as stated and protected in their basic law. Liberty or death and all.


They're going to be fully integrated anyway, in the year 2047. They have some autonomy until that time. However China has been gradually stripping away that autonomy in a bid to ease the transition once 2047 hits (lessening financial reliance, bussing in mainland Chinese, news is in Mandarin now etc etc.) Some will say it's in violation of the agreement, but having a fully free society suddenly be reefed into China's political system would be a huge culture shock.

A showdown was always going to happen, it was only a matter of when. I just don't see HK winning it

We'll see where the world is at that time, but hopefully there are a number of nations around the globe willing to expedite accepting Hong Kong immigrants. Unfortunately Johnnie To will probably be dead by then.


Wealthy Hong Kong citizens are apparently already leaving for places like Singapore

Makes sense. Taiwan will no doubt be next.


No way, it’s Taiwan Independence Day by the way. Taiwan is a full fledge country with its military


yes, my friend is having a great time today.

taiwan may have a military, but imo it is largely irrelevant.
i am not a military expert, but i believe china could easily take out all their airports with medium range ballistic missiles in the first hour of a conflict.

i think there are much better reasons why they do not want to invade.
like international relations as well as desiring the state-of-the-art semiconductor factories to remain intact.

I'm both surprised and not surprised that Taiwan hasn't come up once during the Dem primary debates. I don't think there's even been a South China Sea question.

Stupid provincial-minded Americans.


I'd be very surprised if a credible Dem nominee does mention either of those things. Basically because if they mention them there'll be pressure to act on those tough words and I really doubt the Dems want anything to do with China right now.


exactly there is no solution.
if china wants to take taiwan, there is no reasonable way to stop them.
like i said earlier, there are better reasons why china does not grab it besides military power, particularly preserving those state-of-the-art semiconductor factories better than anything in china currently.

Open military conflict isn't the solution, but the DC foreign policy blob is very much gearing up for some future armed conflict with China even if it's limited in scope.


sure they need to justify the aircraft carriers, stealth planes, submarines etc.
i do not see any scenario in which there is a military conflict between the us and china unless the president literally goes insane
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lakersken80
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PostPosted: Thu Oct 10, 2019 8:43 pm    Post subject:

cal1piggy wrote:
lakersken80 wrote:
cal1piggy wrote:
lakersken80 wrote:
cal1piggy wrote:
governator wrote:
Baron Von Humongous wrote:
drae wrote:
Baron Von Humongous wrote:
drae wrote:
3baller wrote:
Honestly, what the protesters are doing is quite commendable. They're willing to risk being fully integrated into communist China to prevent future encroachment by the CCP on their rights as stated and protected in their basic law. Liberty or death and all.


They're going to be fully integrated anyway, in the year 2047. They have some autonomy until that time. However China has been gradually stripping away that autonomy in a bid to ease the transition once 2047 hits (lessening financial reliance, bussing in mainland Chinese, news is in Mandarin now etc etc.) Some will say it's in violation of the agreement, but having a fully free society suddenly be reefed into China's political system would be a huge culture shock.

A showdown was always going to happen, it was only a matter of when. I just don't see HK winning it

We'll see where the world is at that time, but hopefully there are a number of nations around the globe willing to expedite accepting Hong Kong immigrants. Unfortunately Johnnie To will probably be dead by then.


Wealthy Hong Kong citizens are apparently already leaving for places like Singapore

Makes sense. Taiwan will no doubt be next.


No way, it’s Taiwan Independence Day by the way. Taiwan is a full fledge country with its military


yes, my friend is having a great time today.

taiwan may have a military, but imo it is largely irrelevant.
i am not a military expert, but i believe china could easily take out all their airports with medium range ballistic missiles in the first hour of a conflict.

i think there are much better reasons why they do not want to invade.
like international relations as well as desiring the state-of-the-art semiconductor factories to remain intact.


You need to land troops into Taiwan to take the territory....an amphibious assault is one of the most difficult things to accomplish in warfare. Not only do you need to land enough troops to take over the territory you also have to make sure enough troops survive the journey over water where they are very vulnerable to being tracked or sunk. Taiwan would still have the man advantage even if China has much more advanced weaponry. Lets not even forget you need enough equipment to move that many troops across the strait, plus they would have to to it in a timely matter before any help arrives.


there is no point to fight if china makes the ultimatum.
the outcome is not in doubt.
it would just make it worse for the leadership and the citizens just like those hong kong rioters are doing.
offer to surrender but negotiate a better arrangement using what the mainland wants.
that is hold those semiconductor factories as the hostage.


Thats some really strong kool-aid you are drinking there.
There is a very strong sentiment against the CCP taking over the island. The Taiwanese will fight with every man, women and child if necessary.
Not to mention the US military will not let Taiwan fall and put their other base in range.


i actually dont want china to take over taiwan.
however, i care about the welfare of the citizens in taiwan if such a situation arises.
i dont believe in fighting to the last man when there is no benefit.
imo the us would not come to taiwan's military aid, particularly if trump is president.
the cost would be far too severe in both human life and in weapons and in the stock market collapse.


You care enough that you want them to appease China...doubt that will happen especially with what they are witnessing these days. Also the Taiwanese are due to receive some hardware upgrades that will make a takeover that much more painful for an invasion force.
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cal1piggy
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PostPosted: Thu Oct 10, 2019 8:45 pm    Post subject:

K2 wrote:
^At least they are allowing the sale of F-16Vs to Taiwan


if they were serious, they would sell f35s.
but that would be insane and cause a massive crisis.

china is starting to field their own stealth fighters and bombers, even if the good engines are not ready.
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PostPosted: Thu Oct 10, 2019 8:45 pm    Post subject:

cal1piggy wrote:
Baron Von Humongous wrote:
cal1piggy wrote:
drae wrote:
Baron Von Humongous wrote:
cal1piggy wrote:
governator wrote:
Baron Von Humongous wrote:
drae wrote:
Baron Von Humongous wrote:
drae wrote:
3baller wrote:
Honestly, what the protesters are doing is quite commendable. They're willing to risk being fully integrated into communist China to prevent future encroachment by the CCP on their rights as stated and protected in their basic law. Liberty or death and all.


They're going to be fully integrated anyway, in the year 2047. They have some autonomy until that time. However China has been gradually stripping away that autonomy in a bid to ease the transition once 2047 hits (lessening financial reliance, bussing in mainland Chinese, news is in Mandarin now etc etc.) Some will say it's in violation of the agreement, but having a fully free society suddenly be reefed into China's political system would be a huge culture shock.

A showdown was always going to happen, it was only a matter of when. I just don't see HK winning it

We'll see where the world is at that time, but hopefully there are a number of nations around the globe willing to expedite accepting Hong Kong immigrants. Unfortunately Johnnie To will probably be dead by then.


Wealthy Hong Kong citizens are apparently already leaving for places like Singapore

Makes sense. Taiwan will no doubt be next.


No way, it’s Taiwan Independence Day by the way. Taiwan is a full fledge country with its military


yes, my friend is having a great time today.

taiwan may have a military, but imo it is largely irrelevant.
i am not a military expert, but i believe china could easily take out all their airports with medium range ballistic missiles in the first hour of a conflict.

i think there are much better reasons why they do not want to invade.
like international relations as well as desiring the state-of-the-art semiconductor factories to remain intact.

I'm both surprised and not surprised that Taiwan hasn't come up once during the Dem primary debates. I don't think there's even been a South China Sea question.

Stupid provincial-minded Americans.


I'd be very surprised if a credible Dem nominee does mention either of those things. Basically because if they mention them there'll be pressure to act on those tough words and I really doubt the Dems want anything to do with China right now.


exactly there is no solution.
if china wants to take taiwan, there is no reasonable way to stop them.
like i said earlier, there are better reasons why china does not grab it besides military power, particularly preserving those state-of-the-art semiconductor factories better than anything in china currently.

Open military conflict isn't the solution, but the DC foreign policy blob is very much gearing up for some future armed conflict with China even if it's limited in scope.


sure they need to justify the aircraft carriers, stealth planes, submarines etc.
i do not see any scenario in which there is a military conflict between the us and china unless the president literally goes insane


It already happened in the Korean war.
Plus Taiwan is a huge disadvantage for China unlike Korea where they can just pour troops from the border without a strong navy.
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cal1piggy
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Joined: 19 Jul 2017
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PostPosted: Thu Oct 10, 2019 8:46 pm    Post subject:

lakersken80 wrote:
cal1piggy wrote:
lakersken80 wrote:
cal1piggy wrote:
lakersken80 wrote:
cal1piggy wrote:
governator wrote:
Baron Von Humongous wrote:
drae wrote:
Baron Von Humongous wrote:
drae wrote:
3baller wrote:
Honestly, what the protesters are doing is quite commendable. They're willing to risk being fully integrated into communist China to prevent future encroachment by the CCP on their rights as stated and protected in their basic law. Liberty or death and all.


They're going to be fully integrated anyway, in the year 2047. They have some autonomy until that time. However China has been gradually stripping away that autonomy in a bid to ease the transition once 2047 hits (lessening financial reliance, bussing in mainland Chinese, news is in Mandarin now etc etc.) Some will say it's in violation of the agreement, but having a fully free society suddenly be reefed into China's political system would be a huge culture shock.

A showdown was always going to happen, it was only a matter of when. I just don't see HK winning it

We'll see where the world is at that time, but hopefully there are a number of nations around the globe willing to expedite accepting Hong Kong immigrants. Unfortunately Johnnie To will probably be dead by then.


Wealthy Hong Kong citizens are apparently already leaving for places like Singapore

Makes sense. Taiwan will no doubt be next.


No way, it’s Taiwan Independence Day by the way. Taiwan is a full fledge country with its military


yes, my friend is having a great time today.

taiwan may have a military, but imo it is largely irrelevant.
i am not a military expert, but i believe china could easily take out all their airports with medium range ballistic missiles in the first hour of a conflict.

i think there are much better reasons why they do not want to invade.
like international relations as well as desiring the state-of-the-art semiconductor factories to remain intact.


You need to land troops into Taiwan to take the territory....an amphibious assault is one of the most difficult things to accomplish in warfare. Not only do you need to land enough troops to take over the territory you also have to make sure enough troops survive the journey over water where they are very vulnerable to being tracked or sunk. Taiwan would still have the man advantage even if China has much more advanced weaponry. Lets not even forget you need enough equipment to move that many troops across the strait, plus they would have to to it in a timely matter before any help arrives.


there is no point to fight if china makes the ultimatum.
the outcome is not in doubt.
it would just make it worse for the leadership and the citizens just like those hong kong rioters are doing.
offer to surrender but negotiate a better arrangement using what the mainland wants.
that is hold those semiconductor factories as the hostage.


Thats some really strong kool-aid you are drinking there.
There is a very strong sentiment against the CCP taking over the island. The Taiwanese will fight with every man, women and child if necessary.
Not to mention the US military will not let Taiwan fall and put their other base in range.


i actually dont want china to take over taiwan.
however, i care about the welfare of the citizens in taiwan if such a situation arises.
i dont believe in fighting to the last man when there is no benefit.
imo the us would not come to taiwan's military aid, particularly if trump is president.
the cost would be far too severe in both human life and in weapons and in the stock market collapse.


You care enough that you want them to appease China...doubt that will happen especially with what they are witnessing these days. Also the Taiwanese are due to receive some hardware upgrades that will make a takeover that much more painful for an invasion force.


you call it appeasement, but i call it survival.
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cal1piggy
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Joined: 19 Jul 2017
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PostPosted: Thu Oct 10, 2019 8:48 pm    Post subject:

lakersken80 wrote:
cal1piggy wrote:
Baron Von Humongous wrote:
cal1piggy wrote:
drae wrote:
Baron Von Humongous wrote:
cal1piggy wrote:
governator wrote:
Baron Von Humongous wrote:
drae wrote:
Baron Von Humongous wrote:
drae wrote:
3baller wrote:
Honestly, what the protesters are doing is quite commendable. They're willing to risk being fully integrated into communist China to prevent future encroachment by the CCP on their rights as stated and protected in their basic law. Liberty or death and all.


They're going to be fully integrated anyway, in the year 2047. They have some autonomy until that time. However China has been gradually stripping away that autonomy in a bid to ease the transition once 2047 hits (lessening financial reliance, bussing in mainland Chinese, news is in Mandarin now etc etc.) Some will say it's in violation of the agreement, but having a fully free society suddenly be reefed into China's political system would be a huge culture shock.

A showdown was always going to happen, it was only a matter of when. I just don't see HK winning it

We'll see where the world is at that time, but hopefully there are a number of nations around the globe willing to expedite accepting Hong Kong immigrants. Unfortunately Johnnie To will probably be dead by then.


Wealthy Hong Kong citizens are apparently already leaving for places like Singapore

Makes sense. Taiwan will no doubt be next.


No way, it’s Taiwan Independence Day by the way. Taiwan is a full fledge country with its military


yes, my friend is having a great time today.

taiwan may have a military, but imo it is largely irrelevant.
i am not a military expert, but i believe china could easily take out all their airports with medium range ballistic missiles in the first hour of a conflict.

i think there are much better reasons why they do not want to invade.
like international relations as well as desiring the state-of-the-art semiconductor factories to remain intact.

I'm both surprised and not surprised that Taiwan hasn't come up once during the Dem primary debates. I don't think there's even been a South China Sea question.

Stupid provincial-minded Americans.


I'd be very surprised if a credible Dem nominee does mention either of those things. Basically because if they mention them there'll be pressure to act on those tough words and I really doubt the Dems want anything to do with China right now.


exactly there is no solution.
if china wants to take taiwan, there is no reasonable way to stop them.
like i said earlier, there are better reasons why china does not grab it besides military power, particularly preserving those state-of-the-art semiconductor factories better than anything in china currently.

Open military conflict isn't the solution, but the DC foreign policy blob is very much gearing up for some future armed conflict with China even if it's limited in scope.


sure they need to justify the aircraft carriers, stealth planes, submarines etc.
i do not see any scenario in which there is a military conflict between the us and china unless the president literally goes insane


It already happened in the Korean war.
Plus Taiwan is a huge disadvantage for China unlike Korea where they can just pour troops from the border without a strong navy.


oh please.
korean war had a china that was war torn and minimal military hardware.
now you are talking about a country fielding stealth aircraft.
even i know that you first take out the airports and achieve air superiority.
from there, you can essentially do whatever you want if you dont care about civilian casualties.


Last edited by cal1piggy on Thu Oct 10, 2019 8:49 pm; edited 1 time in total
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lakersken80
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Joined: 12 Aug 2009
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PostPosted: Thu Oct 10, 2019 8:49 pm    Post subject:

cal1piggy wrote:
lakersken80 wrote:
cal1piggy wrote:
lakersken80 wrote:
cal1piggy wrote:
lakersken80 wrote:
cal1piggy wrote:
governator wrote:
Baron Von Humongous wrote:
drae wrote:
Baron Von Humongous wrote:
drae wrote:
3baller wrote:
Honestly, what the protesters are doing is quite commendable. They're willing to risk being fully integrated into communist China to prevent future encroachment by the CCP on their rights as stated and protected in their basic law. Liberty or death and all.


They're going to be fully integrated anyway, in the year 2047. They have some autonomy until that time. However China has been gradually stripping away that autonomy in a bid to ease the transition once 2047 hits (lessening financial reliance, bussing in mainland Chinese, news is in Mandarin now etc etc.) Some will say it's in violation of the agreement, but having a fully free society suddenly be reefed into China's political system would be a huge culture shock.

A showdown was always going to happen, it was only a matter of when. I just don't see HK winning it

We'll see where the world is at that time, but hopefully there are a number of nations around the globe willing to expedite accepting Hong Kong immigrants. Unfortunately Johnnie To will probably be dead by then.


Wealthy Hong Kong citizens are apparently already leaving for places like Singapore

Makes sense. Taiwan will no doubt be next.


No way, it’s Taiwan Independence Day by the way. Taiwan is a full fledge country with its military


yes, my friend is having a great time today.

taiwan may have a military, but imo it is largely irrelevant.
i am not a military expert, but i believe china could easily take out all their airports with medium range ballistic missiles in the first hour of a conflict.

i think there are much better reasons why they do not want to invade.
like international relations as well as desiring the state-of-the-art semiconductor factories to remain intact.


You need to land troops into Taiwan to take the territory....an amphibious assault is one of the most difficult things to accomplish in warfare. Not only do you need to land enough troops to take over the territory you also have to make sure enough troops survive the journey over water where they are very vulnerable to being tracked or sunk. Taiwan would still have the man advantage even if China has much more advanced weaponry. Lets not even forget you need enough equipment to move that many troops across the strait, plus they would have to to it in a timely matter before any help arrives.


there is no point to fight if china makes the ultimatum.
the outcome is not in doubt.
it would just make it worse for the leadership and the citizens just like those hong kong rioters are doing.
offer to surrender but negotiate a better arrangement using what the mainland wants.
that is hold those semiconductor factories as the hostage.


Thats some really strong kool-aid you are drinking there.
There is a very strong sentiment against the CCP taking over the island. The Taiwanese will fight with every man, women and child if necessary.
Not to mention the US military will not let Taiwan fall and put their other base in range.


i actually dont want china to take over taiwan.
however, i care about the welfare of the citizens in taiwan if such a situation arises.
i dont believe in fighting to the last man when there is no benefit.
imo the us would not come to taiwan's military aid, particularly if trump is president.
the cost would be far too severe in both human life and in weapons and in the stock market collapse.


You care enough that you want them to appease China...doubt that will happen especially with what they are witnessing these days. Also the Taiwanese are due to receive some hardware upgrades that will make a takeover that much more painful for an invasion force.


you call it appeasement, but i call it survival.


Of course you do, you are pro CCP.....
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cal1piggy
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Joined: 19 Jul 2017
Posts: 1996

PostPosted: Thu Oct 10, 2019 8:50 pm    Post subject:

lakersken80 wrote:
cal1piggy wrote:
lakersken80 wrote:
cal1piggy wrote:
lakersken80 wrote:
cal1piggy wrote:
lakersken80 wrote:
cal1piggy wrote:
governator wrote:
Baron Von Humongous wrote:
drae wrote:
Baron Von Humongous wrote:
drae wrote:
3baller wrote:
Honestly, what the protesters are doing is quite commendable. They're willing to risk being fully integrated into communist China to prevent future encroachment by the CCP on their rights as stated and protected in their basic law. Liberty or death and all.


They're going to be fully integrated anyway, in the year 2047. They have some autonomy until that time. However China has been gradually stripping away that autonomy in a bid to ease the transition once 2047 hits (lessening financial reliance, bussing in mainland Chinese, news is in Mandarin now etc etc.) Some will say it's in violation of the agreement, but having a fully free society suddenly be reefed into China's political system would be a huge culture shock.

A showdown was always going to happen, it was only a matter of when. I just don't see HK winning it

We'll see where the world is at that time, but hopefully there are a number of nations around the globe willing to expedite accepting Hong Kong immigrants. Unfortunately Johnnie To will probably be dead by then.


Wealthy Hong Kong citizens are apparently already leaving for places like Singapore

Makes sense. Taiwan will no doubt be next.


No way, it’s Taiwan Independence Day by the way. Taiwan is a full fledge country with its military


yes, my friend is having a great time today.

taiwan may have a military, but imo it is largely irrelevant.
i am not a military expert, but i believe china could easily take out all their airports with medium range ballistic missiles in the first hour of a conflict.

i think there are much better reasons why they do not want to invade.
like international relations as well as desiring the state-of-the-art semiconductor factories to remain intact.


You need to land troops into Taiwan to take the territory....an amphibious assault is one of the most difficult things to accomplish in warfare. Not only do you need to land enough troops to take over the territory you also have to make sure enough troops survive the journey over water where they are very vulnerable to being tracked or sunk. Taiwan would still have the man advantage even if China has much more advanced weaponry. Lets not even forget you need enough equipment to move that many troops across the strait, plus they would have to to it in a timely matter before any help arrives.


there is no point to fight if china makes the ultimatum.
the outcome is not in doubt.
it would just make it worse for the leadership and the citizens just like those hong kong rioters are doing.
offer to surrender but negotiate a better arrangement using what the mainland wants.
that is hold those semiconductor factories as the hostage.


Thats some really strong kool-aid you are drinking there.
There is a very strong sentiment against the CCP taking over the island. The Taiwanese will fight with every man, women and child if necessary.
Not to mention the US military will not let Taiwan fall and put their other base in range.


i actually dont want china to take over taiwan.
however, i care about the welfare of the citizens in taiwan if such a situation arises.
i dont believe in fighting to the last man when there is no benefit.
imo the us would not come to taiwan's military aid, particularly if trump is president.
the cost would be far too severe in both human life and in weapons and in the stock market collapse.


You care enough that you want them to appease China...doubt that will happen especially with what they are witnessing these days. Also the Taiwanese are due to receive some hardware upgrades that will make a takeover that much more painful for an invasion force.


you call it appeasement, but i call it survival.


Of course you do, you are pro CCP.....


actually my strong preference is for taiwan to be independent.
much better for business
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lakersken80
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Joined: 12 Aug 2009
Posts: 33790

PostPosted: Thu Oct 10, 2019 8:51 pm    Post subject:

cal1piggy wrote:
lakersken80 wrote:
cal1piggy wrote:
Baron Von Humongous wrote:
cal1piggy wrote:
drae wrote:
Baron Von Humongous wrote:
cal1piggy wrote:
governator wrote:
Baron Von Humongous wrote:
drae wrote:
Baron Von Humongous wrote:
drae wrote:
3baller wrote:
Honestly, what the protesters are doing is quite commendable. They're willing to risk being fully integrated into communist China to prevent future encroachment by the CCP on their rights as stated and protected in their basic law. Liberty or death and all.


They're going to be fully integrated anyway, in the year 2047. They have some autonomy until that time. However China has been gradually stripping away that autonomy in a bid to ease the transition once 2047 hits (lessening financial reliance, bussing in mainland Chinese, news is in Mandarin now etc etc.) Some will say it's in violation of the agreement, but having a fully free society suddenly be reefed into China's political system would be a huge culture shock.

A showdown was always going to happen, it was only a matter of when. I just don't see HK winning it

We'll see where the world is at that time, but hopefully there are a number of nations around the globe willing to expedite accepting Hong Kong immigrants. Unfortunately Johnnie To will probably be dead by then.


Wealthy Hong Kong citizens are apparently already leaving for places like Singapore

Makes sense. Taiwan will no doubt be next.


No way, it’s Taiwan Independence Day by the way. Taiwan is a full fledge country with its military


yes, my friend is having a great time today.

taiwan may have a military, but imo it is largely irrelevant.
i am not a military expert, but i believe china could easily take out all their airports with medium range ballistic missiles in the first hour of a conflict.

i think there are much better reasons why they do not want to invade.
like international relations as well as desiring the state-of-the-art semiconductor factories to remain intact.

I'm both surprised and not surprised that Taiwan hasn't come up once during the Dem primary debates. I don't think there's even been a South China Sea question.

Stupid provincial-minded Americans.


I'd be very surprised if a credible Dem nominee does mention either of those things. Basically because if they mention them there'll be pressure to act on those tough words and I really doubt the Dems want anything to do with China right now.


exactly there is no solution.
if china wants to take taiwan, there is no reasonable way to stop them.
like i said earlier, there are better reasons why china does not grab it besides military power, particularly preserving those state-of-the-art semiconductor factories better than anything in china currently.

Open military conflict isn't the solution, but the DC foreign policy blob is very much gearing up for some future armed conflict with China even if it's limited in scope.


sure they need to justify the aircraft carriers, stealth planes, submarines etc.
i do not see any scenario in which there is a military conflict between the us and china unless the president literally goes insane


It already happened in the Korean war.
Plus Taiwan is a huge disadvantage for China unlike Korea where they can just pour troops from the border without a strong navy.


oh please.
korean war had a china that was war torn and minimal military hardware.
now you are talking about a country fielding stealth aircraft.
even i know that you first take out the airports and achieve air superiority.
from there, you can essentially do whatever you want if you dont care about civilian casualties.


I don't need airports to deploy anti-aircraft missile systems.
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lakersken80
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Joined: 12 Aug 2009
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PostPosted: Thu Oct 10, 2019 8:52 pm    Post subject:

cal1piggy wrote:
lakersken80 wrote:
cal1piggy wrote:
lakersken80 wrote:
cal1piggy wrote:
lakersken80 wrote:
cal1piggy wrote:
lakersken80 wrote:
cal1piggy wrote:
governator wrote:
Baron Von Humongous wrote:
drae wrote:
Baron Von Humongous wrote:
drae wrote:
3baller wrote:
Honestly, what the protesters are doing is quite commendable. They're willing to risk being fully integrated into communist China to prevent future encroachment by the CCP on their rights as stated and protected in their basic law. Liberty or death and all.


They're going to be fully integrated anyway, in the year 2047. They have some autonomy until that time. However China has been gradually stripping away that autonomy in a bid to ease the transition once 2047 hits (lessening financial reliance, bussing in mainland Chinese, news is in Mandarin now etc etc.) Some will say it's in violation of the agreement, but having a fully free society suddenly be reefed into China's political system would be a huge culture shock.

A showdown was always going to happen, it was only a matter of when. I just don't see HK winning it

We'll see where the world is at that time, but hopefully there are a number of nations around the globe willing to expedite accepting Hong Kong immigrants. Unfortunately Johnnie To will probably be dead by then.


Wealthy Hong Kong citizens are apparently already leaving for places like Singapore

Makes sense. Taiwan will no doubt be next.


No way, it’s Taiwan Independence Day by the way. Taiwan is a full fledge country with its military


yes, my friend is having a great time today.

taiwan may have a military, but imo it is largely irrelevant.
i am not a military expert, but i believe china could easily take out all their airports with medium range ballistic missiles in the first hour of a conflict.

i think there are much better reasons why they do not want to invade.
like international relations as well as desiring the state-of-the-art semiconductor factories to remain intact.


You need to land troops into Taiwan to take the territory....an amphibious assault is one of the most difficult things to accomplish in warfare. Not only do you need to land enough troops to take over the territory you also have to make sure enough troops survive the journey over water where they are very vulnerable to being tracked or sunk. Taiwan would still have the man advantage even if China has much more advanced weaponry. Lets not even forget you need enough equipment to move that many troops across the strait, plus they would have to to it in a timely matter before any help arrives.


there is no point to fight if china makes the ultimatum.
the outcome is not in doubt.
it would just make it worse for the leadership and the citizens just like those hong kong rioters are doing.
offer to surrender but negotiate a better arrangement using what the mainland wants.
that is hold those semiconductor factories as the hostage.


Thats some really strong kool-aid you are drinking there.
There is a very strong sentiment against the CCP taking over the island. The Taiwanese will fight with every man, women and child if necessary.
Not to mention the US military will not let Taiwan fall and put their other base in range.


i actually dont want china to take over taiwan.
however, i care about the welfare of the citizens in taiwan if such a situation arises.
i dont believe in fighting to the last man when there is no benefit.
imo the us would not come to taiwan's military aid, particularly if trump is president.
the cost would be far too severe in both human life and in weapons and in the stock market collapse.


You care enough that you want them to appease China...doubt that will happen especially with what they are witnessing these days. Also the Taiwanese are due to receive some hardware upgrades that will make a takeover that much more painful for an invasion force.


you call it appeasement, but i call it survival.


Of course you do, you are pro CCP.....


actually my strong preference is for taiwan to be independent.
much better for business


I'm sure you do...this is why you want them to lay down and surrender.
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cal1piggy
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PostPosted: Thu Oct 10, 2019 8:57 pm    Post subject:

lakersken80 wrote:
cal1piggy wrote:
lakersken80 wrote:
cal1piggy wrote:
Baron Von Humongous wrote:
cal1piggy wrote:


exactly there is no solution.
if china wants to take taiwan, there is no reasonable way to stop them.
like i said earlier, there are better reasons why china does not grab it besides military power, particularly preserving those state-of-the-art semiconductor factories better than anything in china currently.

Open military conflict isn't the solution, but the DC foreign policy blob is very much gearing up for some future armed conflict with China even if it's limited in scope.


sure they need to justify the aircraft carriers, stealth planes, submarines etc.
i do not see any scenario in which there is a military conflict between the us and china unless the president literally goes insane


It already happened in the Korean war.
Plus Taiwan is a huge disadvantage for China unlike Korea where they can just pour troops from the border without a strong navy.


oh please.
korean war had a china that was war torn and minimal military hardware.
now you are talking about a country fielding stealth aircraft.
even i know that you first take out the airports and achieve air superiority.
from there, you can essentially do whatever you want if you dont care about civilian casualties.


I don't need airports to deploy anti-aircraft missile systems.


how long will your precious SAMs last against stealth aircraft and combat uavs?

what is the benefit for the average taiwanese to fight a hopeless war?

it is not as if they are fighting nazi germany where they will all get gassed if they lose

what is the upside for the soldiers.
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cal1piggy
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Joined: 19 Jul 2017
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PostPosted: Thu Oct 10, 2019 8:58 pm    Post subject:

lakersken80 wrote:
cal1piggy wrote:
lakersken80 wrote:
cal1piggy wrote:
lakersken80 wrote:
cal1piggy wrote:
lakersken80 wrote:
cal1piggy wrote:
lakersken80 wrote:
cal1piggy wrote:
governator wrote:
Baron Von Humongous wrote:
drae wrote:


Wealthy Hong Kong citizens are apparently already leaving for places like Singapore

Makes sense. Taiwan will no doubt be next.


No way, it’s Taiwan Independence Day by the way. Taiwan is a full fledge country with its military


yes, my friend is having a great time today.

taiwan may have a military, but imo it is largely irrelevant.
i am not a military expert, but i believe china could easily take out all their airports with medium range ballistic missiles in the first hour of a conflict.

i think there are much better reasons why they do not want to invade.
like international relations as well as desiring the state-of-the-art semiconductor factories to remain intact.


You need to land troops into Taiwan to take the territory....an amphibious assault is one of the most difficult things to accomplish in warfare. Not only do you need to land enough troops to take over the territory you also have to make sure enough troops survive the journey over water where they are very vulnerable to being tracked or sunk. Taiwan would still have the man advantage even if China has much more advanced weaponry. Lets not even forget you need enough equipment to move that many troops across the strait, plus they would have to to it in a timely matter before any help arrives.


there is no point to fight if china makes the ultimatum.
the outcome is not in doubt.
it would just make it worse for the leadership and the citizens just like those hong kong rioters are doing.
offer to surrender but negotiate a better arrangement using what the mainland wants.
that is hold those semiconductor factories as the hostage.


Thats some really strong kool-aid you are drinking there.
There is a very strong sentiment against the CCP taking over the island. The Taiwanese will fight with every man, women and child if necessary.
Not to mention the US military will not let Taiwan fall and put their other base in range.


i actually dont want china to take over taiwan.
however, i care about the welfare of the citizens in taiwan if such a situation arises.
i dont believe in fighting to the last man when there is no benefit.
imo the us would not come to taiwan's military aid, particularly if trump is president.
the cost would be far too severe in both human life and in weapons and in the stock market collapse.


You care enough that you want them to appease China...doubt that will happen especially with what they are witnessing these days. Also the Taiwanese are due to receive some hardware upgrades that will make a takeover that much more painful for an invasion force.


you call it appeasement, but i call it survival.


Of course you do, you are pro CCP.....


actually my strong preference is for taiwan to be independent.
much better for business


I'm sure you do...this is why you want them to lay down and surrender.


sorry, got a call now. be back in 30 minutes.
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Baron Von Humongous
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PostPosted: Thu Oct 10, 2019 8:58 pm    Post subject:

cal1piggy wrote:
K2 wrote:
^At least they are allowing the sale of F-16Vs to Taiwan


if they were serious, they would sell f35s.
but that would be insane and cause a massive crisis.

china is starting to field their own stealth fighters and bombers, even if the good engines are not ready.

The F35s continue to suck which is why they're not selling them to Taiwan.
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PostPosted: Thu Oct 10, 2019 9:01 pm    Post subject:

cal1piggy wrote:
lakersken80 wrote:
cal1piggy wrote:
lakersken80 wrote:
cal1piggy wrote:
Baron Von Humongous wrote:
cal1piggy wrote:


exactly there is no solution.
if china wants to take taiwan, there is no reasonable way to stop them.
like i said earlier, there are better reasons why china does not grab it besides military power, particularly preserving those state-of-the-art semiconductor factories better than anything in china currently.

Open military conflict isn't the solution, but the DC foreign policy blob is very much gearing up for some future armed conflict with China even if it's limited in scope.


sure they need to justify the aircraft carriers, stealth planes, submarines etc.
i do not see any scenario in which there is a military conflict between the us and china unless the president literally goes insane


It already happened in the Korean war.
Plus Taiwan is a huge disadvantage for China unlike Korea where they can just pour troops from the border without a strong navy.


oh please.
korean war had a china that was war torn and minimal military hardware.
now you are talking about a country fielding stealth aircraft.
even i know that you first take out the airports and achieve air superiority.
from there, you can essentially do whatever you want if you dont care about civilian casualties.


I don't need airports to deploy anti-aircraft missile systems.


how long will your precious SAMs last against stealth aircraft and combat uavs?

what is the benefit for the average taiwanese to fight a hopeless war?

it is not as if they are fighting nazi germany where they will all get gassed if they lose

what is the upside for the soldiers.


Defending their current way of life and political system.
China doesn't want to shed blood because if they fail that could be a huge destabilizing force for the Party. This is why they want to convince Taiwan to give up. What we are seeing is the opposite sentiment among Taiwanese citizens.
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Baron Von Humongous
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PostPosted: Thu Oct 10, 2019 9:01 pm    Post subject:

cal1piggy wrote:
lakersken80 wrote:
cal1piggy wrote:
Baron Von Humongous wrote:
cal1piggy wrote:
drae wrote:
Baron Von Humongous wrote:
cal1piggy wrote:
governator wrote:
Baron Von Humongous wrote:
drae wrote:
Baron Von Humongous wrote:
drae wrote:
3baller wrote:
Honestly, what the protesters are doing is quite commendable. They're willing to risk being fully integrated into communist China to prevent future encroachment by the CCP on their rights as stated and protected in their basic law. Liberty or death and all.


They're going to be fully integrated anyway, in the year 2047. They have some autonomy until that time. However China has been gradually stripping away that autonomy in a bid to ease the transition once 2047 hits (lessening financial reliance, bussing in mainland Chinese, news is in Mandarin now etc etc.) Some will say it's in violation of the agreement, but having a fully free society suddenly be reefed into China's political system would be a huge culture shock.

A showdown was always going to happen, it was only a matter of when. I just don't see HK winning it

We'll see where the world is at that time, but hopefully there are a number of nations around the globe willing to expedite accepting Hong Kong immigrants. Unfortunately Johnnie To will probably be dead by then.


Wealthy Hong Kong citizens are apparently already leaving for places like Singapore

Makes sense. Taiwan will no doubt be next.


No way, it’s Taiwan Independence Day by the way. Taiwan is a full fledge country with its military


yes, my friend is having a great time today.

taiwan may have a military, but imo it is largely irrelevant.
i am not a military expert, but i believe china could easily take out all their airports with medium range ballistic missiles in the first hour of a conflict.

i think there are much better reasons why they do not want to invade.
like international relations as well as desiring the state-of-the-art semiconductor factories to remain intact.

I'm both surprised and not surprised that Taiwan hasn't come up once during the Dem primary debates. I don't think there's even been a South China Sea question.

Stupid provincial-minded Americans.


I'd be very surprised if a credible Dem nominee does mention either of those things. Basically because if they mention them there'll be pressure to act on those tough words and I really doubt the Dems want anything to do with China right now.


exactly there is no solution.
if china wants to take taiwan, there is no reasonable way to stop them.
like i said earlier, there are better reasons why china does not grab it besides military power, particularly preserving those state-of-the-art semiconductor factories better than anything in china currently.

Open military conflict isn't the solution, but the DC foreign policy blob is very much gearing up for some future armed conflict with China even if it's limited in scope.


sure they need to justify the aircraft carriers, stealth planes, submarines etc.
i do not see any scenario in which there is a military conflict between the us and china unless the president literally goes insane


It already happened in the Korean war.
Plus Taiwan is a huge disadvantage for China unlike Korea where they can just pour troops from the border without a strong navy.


oh please.
korean war had a china that was war torn and minimal military hardware.
now you are talking about a country fielding stealth aircraft.
even i know that you first take out the airports and achieve air superiority.
from there, you can essentially do whatever you want if you dont care about civilian casualties.

I mean, it's not like China's neighbors and the US haven't also upgraded their military capabilities since then.
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PostPosted: Thu Oct 10, 2019 9:05 pm    Post subject:

cal1piggy wrote:
Baron Von Humongous wrote:

Open military conflict isn't the solution, but the DC foreign policy blob is very much gearing up for some future armed conflict with China even if it's limited in scope.


sure they need to justify the aircraft carriers, stealth planes, submarines etc.
i do not see any scenario in which there is a military conflict between the us and china unless the president literally goes insane

Limited scope military conflict spearheaded by the 7th Fleet in the Taiwan Straits, East Sea, or South China Sea? Not out of the question at all.

Also, broadly, since you referenced the dynamic between ascendant piwers and declining powers a few pages ago, what do you think the declining power will do to "justify the aircraft carriers, stealth planes, submarines, etc." at its disposal?
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