China bans Houston Rockets over pro-Hong Kong tweet by Morey
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LakesGnrLake
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PostPosted: Tue Oct 08, 2019 12:30 pm    Post subject:

SGV-Laker fan wrote:
The fact so many people are talking about this and the fact Silver flew to Shanghai immediately shows money still matters. Why not just ignore the Chinese reaction altogether? Why not just treat this news as a little blip on the world of sporting news? They just can’t do that do they.


The problem is it brought to light the entire China situation to people that may have not know so now its gonna be a should the NBA still do business with China thing.
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PostPosted: Tue Oct 08, 2019 12:31 pm    Post subject:

SGV-Laker fan wrote:
The fact so many people are talking about this and the fact Silver flew to Shanghai immediately shows money still matters. Why not just ignore the Chinese reaction altogether? Why not just treat this news as a little blip on the world of sporting news? They just can’t do that do they.


Well considering they probably budgeted for the China money says they need to salvage that relationship.
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PostPosted: Tue Oct 08, 2019 12:32 pm    Post subject:

LakesGnrLake wrote:
SGV-Laker fan wrote:
The fact so many people are talking about this and the fact Silver flew to Shanghai immediately shows money still matters. Why not just ignore the Chinese reaction altogether? Why not just treat this news as a little blip on the world of sporting news? They just can’t do that do they.


The problem is it brought to light the entire China situation to people that may have not know so now its gonna be a should the NBA still do business with China thing.


just NBA? our gov't? facebook? yahoo? other business sectors? farms?
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PostPosted: Tue Oct 08, 2019 12:37 pm    Post subject:

HumanVictoryCigar wrote:
all this talk about the Chinese "government". There is no government to work this out with. There's a very few people at the top of totem pole and they didn't like the brash Americans coming over and spouting off their views like we do over here so they squashed it. When they didn't get what they felt was a proper apology they ramped up their "punishment" like a small child having a tantrum. Now they've got people over there actually believing the only way to settle this is for Morey to get fired.

This will lay it out for you, it's from The Street in a 2015 article:

"Bear in mind that many Party members got their wealth not by being innovative business people, but by stealing business and property. That process is rather simple: Companies that become very profitable are absorbed, one way or another, into the state. "State-owned enterprises" are treated as money machines for the benefit of their political owners. Typically, state-owned enterprises have their profits diverted to their Party "owners", and then loans are made by state-owned banks to keep the enterprise ongoing."

Power is going to power.
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PostPosted: Tue Oct 08, 2019 1:31 pm    Post subject:

Adam Silver, "so how do we settle this?"
Chairman Xi, "three years should do it"
Adam Silver, "oh, so you want to have a 3 year agreement?"
Chairman Xi, "no, three years hard labor"
Adam Silver, "I'm sorry, what are we talking about?"
Chairman Xi, "If Daryl Morey volunteers to do three years hard labor in one of our prisons, all is forgiven."
Adam Silver, "I'm sorry, that seems a bit harsh."
Chairman Xi, "ok, then all contracts are voided, go home Mr. Silver."
Adam Silver, "wait, wait, wait! Three years... hmmm... let me go talk to my people..."
Chairman Xi, "hurry Mr. Silver, in one hour, the offer goes up to 7 years"
Adam Silver, "is there any other way to solve this?"
Chairman Xi, "go now Mr. Silver, before my good mood changes."
Adam Silver, "ooooh, ok, so we have an agreement, 3 years hard labor, all is forgiven and you pay us the money?"
Chairman Xi, "agreed"
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PostPosted: Tue Oct 08, 2019 1:38 pm    Post subject:

Trump and Dennis Rodman are probably the only two geniuses, uniquely qualified to arbitrate this mess.
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PostPosted: Tue Oct 08, 2019 1:59 pm    Post subject:

I want to say I want to ban all China but I can't. My wife is Chinese but born in San Francisco. I'm looking around my desk in my office and 90% of these things in front of me are all made in China.
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PostPosted: Tue Oct 08, 2019 2:25 pm    Post subject:

StoicChalice392 wrote:
I want to say I want to ban all China but I can't. My wife is Chinese but born in San Francisco. I'm looking around my desk in my office and 90% of these things in front of me are all made in China.


your wife is American
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PostPosted: Tue Oct 08, 2019 3:35 pm    Post subject:

This Morey incident should wake up the average person about the situation in Hong Kong and the nature of the CCP. It's not as simple as "I do what I want, it's a free country," which Morey probably believes.
It's not unlike the support America received from foreign countries back in the Independence days. Foreign governments talked around the issue directly to prevent matters from escalating with the British. But they were secretly allies with America, and the French and others ultimately helped thwart the British during the Revolutionary War.

HK isn't that dire yet, but with lives and a beautiful city at stake, it might be better for companies like these to stand for freedom in general, and to distance themselves from Chinese business if possible. The US government seems to be taking a similar stance with HK atm.
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PostPosted: Tue Oct 08, 2019 3:41 pm    Post subject:

PrairieAve wrote:
This Morey incident should wake up the average person about the situation in Hong Kong and the nature of the CCP. It's not as simple as "I do what I want, it's a free country," which Morey probably believes.
It's not unlike the support America received from foreign countries back in the Independence days. Foreign governments talked around the issue directly to prevent matters from escalating with the British. But they were secretly allies with America, and the French and others ultimately helped thwart the British during the Revolutionary War.

HK isn't that dire yet, but with lives and a beautiful city at stake, it might be better for companies like these to stand for freedom in general, and to distance themselves from Chinese business if possible. The US government seems to be taking a similar stance with HK atm.


Big difference is that other countries had colonies in the states so they had a base to launch their defense of the Americas. HK has no such luxury, China has all the land advantage and they have home field advantage in that all their troops can pour into the territory and hold it. Nevermind that China has nukes and will probably use it against anybody who they see as hostile.
The way I see it is that the Chinese government is escalating this incident, the NBA just wants to play their games and make money.
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PostPosted: Tue Oct 08, 2019 4:52 pm    Post subject:

^Not to mention China controls the water too. HK's not in the most advantageous situation to say the least.
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PostPosted: Tue Oct 08, 2019 5:03 pm    Post subject:

K2 wrote:
^Not to mention China controls the water too. HK's not in the most advantageous situation to say the least.


Water, food and power generation (theres a couple of nuclear power plants in southern China that provides HK's power). Needless to say, HK is dependent on mainland China.
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PostPosted: Tue Oct 08, 2019 6:15 pm    Post subject:

This reminds me of a series of posts I made from the earliest days of lakersground.com. Back then many of my HK friends were happy at being part of the People's Republic of China, as they didn't want to be a UK colony. The latter was more than understandable; the former was just an idealistic craving. I spent time in both the PRC and HK, and as I told my HK friends, they had very little in common with the PRC, other than a degree of Han ethnicity. They had no idea how their lives would change, and more importantly, how the lives of their children would be vastly different.

Well that day is here. The older generation as a whole feels ambivalence towards Beijing, and simply wants commerce to continue uninterupted. The younger generation yearns for freedom from Beijing. It isn't just the heavy handed nature of Beijing, they've learned from "Big Green" tourists and their own visits to the mainland that they have precious little in common with them. They also know that their lives and prospects will be worse than their parent's generation, and that contributes to the frustration. In essence, they culturally identify with being Hong Kong, distinct and special in their own right, and want a voice in determining their own future, with their own government.
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PostPosted: Tue Oct 08, 2019 6:29 pm    Post subject:

HumanVictoryCigar wrote:
all this talk about the Chinese "government". There is no government to work this out with. There's a very few people at the top of totem pole and they didn't like the brash Americans coming over and spouting off their views like we do over here so they squashed it. When they didn't get what they felt was a proper apology they ramped up their "punishment" like a small child having a tantrum. Now they've got people over there actually believing the only way to settle this is for Morey to get fired.

This will lay it out for you, it's from The Street in a 2015 article:

"Bear in mind that many Party members got their wealth not by being innovative business people, but by stealing business and property. That process is rather simple: Companies that become very profitable are absorbed, one way or another, into the state. "State-owned enterprises" are treated as money machines for the benefit of their political owners. Typically, state-owned enterprises have their profits diverted to their Party "owners", and then loans are made by state-owned banks to keep the enterprise ongoing."



Sadly, this is true. The PRC has one of the highest rates of personal savings in the world. The politicians have used their banks as personal piggy banks, getting themselves, their family members and their friends loans. They have ripped off their own banking system and used that capital to start their own companies. This is one of the two reasons why you don't see credit ratings in the People's Republic: 1. The politicos can hide their nefarious dealings with the banks; and 2. The PRC doesn't want anyone to know how much their really spending on their military, as vast amounts of money are appropriated for military expenditures through shadowy companies.
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PostPosted: Tue Oct 08, 2019 6:41 pm    Post subject:

lakersken80 wrote:
PrairieAve wrote:
This Morey incident should wake up the average person about the situation in Hong Kong and the nature of the CCP. It's not as simple as "I do what I want, it's a free country," which Morey probably believes.
It's not unlike the support America received from foreign countries back in the Independence days. Foreign governments talked around the issue directly to prevent matters from escalating with the British. But they were secretly allies with America, and the French and others ultimately helped thwart the British during the Revolutionary War.

HK isn't that dire yet, but with lives and a beautiful city at stake, it might be better for companies like these to stand for freedom in general, and to distance themselves from Chinese business if possible. The US government seems to be taking a similar stance with HK atm.


Big difference is that other countries had colonies in the states so they had a base to launch their defense of the Americas. HK has no such luxury, China has all the land advantage and they have home field advantage in that all their troops can pour into the territory and hold it. Nevermind that China has nukes and will probably use it against anybody who they see as hostile.
The way I see it is that the Chinese government is escalating this incident, the NBA just wants to play their games and make money.




The French sent troops directly from France, not from any of the Louisiana territories. The Spanish were based in Florida and had minimal involvement. The largest concentration of non-Brit troops were in the Caribbean, but they didn't join Comte de Rochambeau. More importantly, the French did have a sizeable naval force under de Grasse that sailed up and defeated the Brits at Chesapeake Bay, sealing off the only possible escape for Cornwallis at Yorktown. But this part of the French fleet wasn't based in the modern day US, but rather they were in the Caribbean protecting French interests.
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PostPosted: Tue Oct 08, 2019 6:53 pm    Post subject:

angrypuppy wrote:
lakersken80 wrote:
PrairieAve wrote:
This Morey incident should wake up the average person about the situation in Hong Kong and the nature of the CCP. It's not as simple as "I do what I want, it's a free country," which Morey probably believes.
It's not unlike the support America received from foreign countries back in the Independence days. Foreign governments talked around the issue directly to prevent matters from escalating with the British. But they were secretly allies with America, and the French and others ultimately helped thwart the British during the Revolutionary War.

HK isn't that dire yet, but with lives and a beautiful city at stake, it might be better for companies like these to stand for freedom in general, and to distance themselves from Chinese business if possible. The US government seems to be taking a similar stance with HK atm.


Big difference is that other countries had colonies in the states so they had a base to launch their defense of the Americas. HK has no such luxury, China has all the land advantage and they have home field advantage in that all their troops can pour into the territory and hold it. Nevermind that China has nukes and will probably use it against anybody who they see as hostile.
The way I see it is that the Chinese government is escalating this incident, the NBA just wants to play their games and make money.




The French sent troops directly from France, not from any of the Louisiana territories. The Spanish were based in Florida and had minimal involvement. The largest concentration of non-Brit troops were in the Caribbean, but they didn't join Comte de Rochambeau. More importantly, the French did have a sizeable naval force under de Grasse, which was protecting French interests in the Caribbean. They sailed up and defeated the Brits at Chesapeake Bay, sealing off the only possible escape for Cornwallis at Yorktown.


The point is that the other European powers weren't locked out from the Americas when it came to a land advantage, something the Chinese military has in Hong Kong.
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PostPosted: Tue Oct 08, 2019 6:55 pm    Post subject:

lakersken80 wrote:
angrypuppy wrote:
lakersken80 wrote:
PrairieAve wrote:
This Morey incident should wake up the average person about the situation in Hong Kong and the nature of the CCP. It's not as simple as "I do what I want, it's a free country," which Morey probably believes.
It's not unlike the support America received from foreign countries back in the Independence days. Foreign governments talked around the issue directly to prevent matters from escalating with the British. But they were secretly allies with America, and the French and others ultimately helped thwart the British during the Revolutionary War.

HK isn't that dire yet, but with lives and a beautiful city at stake, it might be better for companies like these to stand for freedom in general, and to distance themselves from Chinese business if possible. The US government seems to be taking a similar stance with HK atm.


Big difference is that other countries had colonies in the states so they had a base to launch their defense of the Americas. HK has no such luxury, China has all the land advantage and they have home field advantage in that all their troops can pour into the territory and hold it. Nevermind that China has nukes and will probably use it against anybody who they see as hostile.
The way I see it is that the Chinese government is escalating this incident, the NBA just wants to play their games and make money.




The French sent troops directly from France, not from any of the Louisiana territories. The Spanish were based in Florida and had minimal involvement. The largest concentration of non-Brit troops were in the Caribbean, but they didn't join Comte de Rochambeau. More importantly, the French did have a sizeable naval force under de Grasse, which was protecting French interests in the Caribbean. They sailed up and defeated the Brits at Chesapeake Bay, sealing off the only possible escape for Cornwallis at Yorktown.


The point is that the other European powers weren't locked out from the Americas when it came to a land advantage, something the Chinese military has in Hong Kong.



They were locked out. The French had to land troops from France. In fact, the original plan was for the French to land more troops, only the Brits blockaded Brest.
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PostPosted: Wed Oct 09, 2019 4:56 am    Post subject:

One more thought: Irony abounds.

The entire message for integrating the People's Republic of China into the World Trade Organization was that they'd need democracy to function in technology-driven world (free exchange of ideas mantra) and that big business would bind the PRC to the EU and the US. I always thought that this sounded like self-serving BS by big business. Big business was drooling at the prospect of entering a vast market (surprise, most of those gains weren't at the scale they thought, and many were simply allowed in order to siphon out knowledge). The secondary reason was a bit more insidious, and one of the reasons why middle America has flocked to Trump; the PRC has a vast pool of cheap labor that can be corralled by geography and educational level. If you're looking for why the West has become dysfunctional, look no further than at the short-term, intertwined interests of big business and government leaders. That's what massive job loss and capital outflows do to a society.

There might have been an intent for free trade by the PRC under Deng (that's open to debate) but under Xi it is blatantly obvious that they've pursued a mercantilist policy, one that they stockpile the treasure by not balancing exports with imports. That is destabilizing on a global level. If this sounds familiar, look no further than at the history of China during the Qing/Chiang Dynasty.

Anyway, the irony is that instead of the People's Republic becoming more democratic and tolerant of free speech, we in the West have become more autocratic, and now our press is self-censuring out of fear of lost revenue or lost revenue opportunities, just as the press in Hong Kong self-censures out of fear of imprisonment.
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PostPosted: Wed Oct 09, 2019 6:12 am    Post subject:

angrypuppy wrote:
HumanVictoryCigar wrote:
all this talk about the Chinese "government". There is no government to work this out with. There's a very few people at the top of totem pole and they didn't like the brash Americans coming over and spouting off their views like we do over here so they squashed it. When they didn't get what they felt was a proper apology they ramped up their "punishment" like a small child having a tantrum. Now they've got people over there actually believing the only way to settle this is for Morey to get fired.

This will lay it out for you, it's from The Street in a 2015 article:

"Bear in mind that many Party members got their wealth not by being innovative business people, but by stealing business and property. That process is rather simple: Companies that become very profitable are absorbed, one way or another, into the state. "State-owned enterprises" are treated as money machines for the benefit of their political owners. Typically, state-owned enterprises have their profits diverted to their Party "owners", and then loans are made by state-owned banks to keep the enterprise ongoing."



Sadly, this is true. The PRC has one of the highest rates of personal savings in the world. The politicians have used their banks as personal piggy banks, getting themselves, their family members and their friends loans. They have ripped off their own banking system and used that capital to start their own companies. This is one of the two reasons why you don't see credit ratings in the People's Republic: 1. The politicos can hide their nefarious dealings with the banks; and 2. The PRC doesn't want anyone to know how much their really spending on their military, as vast amounts of money are appropriated for military expenditures through shadowy companies.


Western consumerism was great for the Chinese military. They would've never been able to upgrade their 50's and 60's era machinery to basically technology that is close to what the US fields in a period of 20 years.
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PostPosted: Wed Oct 09, 2019 8:19 am    Post subject:

angrypuppy wrote:
This reminds me of a series of posts I made from the earliest days of lakersground.com. Back then many of my HK friends were happy at being part of the People's Republic of China, as they didn't want to be a UK colony. The latter was more than understandable; the former was just an idealistic craving. I spent time in both the PRC and HK, and as I told my HK friends, they had very little in common with the PRC, other than a degree of Han ethnicity. They had no idea how their lives would change, and more importantly, how the lives of their children would be vastly different.

Well that day is here. The older generation as a whole feels ambivalence towards Beijing, and simply wants commerce to continue uninterupted. The younger generation yearns for freedom from Beijing. It isn't just the heavy handed nature of Beijing, they've learned from "Big Green" tourists and their own visits to the mainland that they have precious little in common with them. They also know that their lives and prospects will be worse than their parent's generation, and that contributes to the frustration. In essence, they culturally identify with being Hong Kong, distinct and special in their own right, and want a voice in determining their own future, with their own government.


thanks for the insight. How much time have you spent there?
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PostPosted: Wed Oct 09, 2019 8:27 am    Post subject:

this was probably justified, but still...

https://www.nbcphiladelphia.com/news/local/Philadelphia-76ers-Sixers-Fan-Hong-Kong-Protests-Preseason-Game-Signs-562589301.html
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PostPosted: Wed Oct 09, 2019 8:54 am    Post subject:

If China continues down this scorched earth road here, I suggest we kick Yao Ming out of the basketball HOF. Any of his "good will" and helping grow the game in China is down the drain and his average NBA career certainly doesn't justify his entrance.
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PostPosted: Wed Oct 09, 2019 8:58 am    Post subject:

vanexelent wrote:
If China continues down this scorched earth road here, I suggest we kick Yao Ming out of the basketball HOF. Any of his "good will" and helping grow the game in China is down the drain and his average NBA career certainly doesn't justify his entrance.

No, let's not do that.
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PostPosted: Wed Oct 09, 2019 9:00 am    Post subject:

Yao might be the only guy left to save the relationship between the NBA and China.
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PostPosted: Wed Oct 09, 2019 9:10 am    Post subject:

governator wrote:
non-player zealot wrote:
Huey Lewis & The News wrote:
Nets owner wrote:
The one thing that is terribly misunderstood, and often ignored, by the western press and those critical of China is that 1.4 billion Chinese citizens stand united when it comes to the territorial integrity of China and the country’s sovereignty over her homeland. This issue is non-negotiable.


lol (bleep) this bootlicker


[non-player zealot showing his racist side]


hope you're not doing racist accent

Chinese government not equal chinese people (not that there's an excuse for the accent)


Most are unwilling to make that distinction, so they're willing to let their casual racism foment their sinophobia.


Last edited by LAkers 4 Life on Thu Oct 10, 2019 8:10 am; edited 1 time in total
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