View previous topic :: View next topic |
Author |
Message |
MIMLaker Franchise Player
Joined: 18 Jul 2001 Posts: 10015 Location: Los Angeles/ Alhambra, CA
|
Posted: Wed Oct 16, 2019 9:17 am Post subject: Which of our shooters are better on kick-outs/ dribbling off screens/ running off screens? |
|
|
Read an article the other day saying how Green is more comfortable getting the ball off straight kick-outs rather than running off screens and then shooting. So, what kind of outside shot works best for our designated shooters, like...
Green?
KCP?
Daniels?
Cook?
Caruso?
Bradley?
Dudley?
Norvell? (Thanks, epak! )
Really hoping Vogel and our heavily D-minded staff take these things into account re: lineups, sets, etc....
Last edited by MIMLaker on Wed Oct 16, 2019 10:04 am; edited 1 time in total |
|
Back to top |
|
|
Mike@LG Moderator
Joined: 10 Apr 2001 Posts: 65135 Location: Orange County, CA
|
Posted: Wed Oct 16, 2019 9:21 am Post subject: |
|
|
Hate to tell you this but they're almost all spot up guys.
Green and KCP are maybe average at running off screens.
Dribble pull ups, I think it's Green and Cook. _________________ Resident Car Nut.
https://lakersdraft.substack.com/
I am not an economic advisor nor do I advise economic strategies or plans. |
|
Back to top |
|
|
epak Retired Number
Joined: 30 Aug 2005 Posts: 34147
|
Posted: Wed Oct 16, 2019 10:00 am Post subject: |
|
|
Can any of them dribble? |
|
Back to top |
|
|
Mike@LG Moderator
Joined: 10 Apr 2001 Posts: 65135 Location: Orange County, CA
|
Posted: Wed Oct 16, 2019 10:00 am Post subject: |
|
|
epak wrote: | Can any of them dribble? |
Norvell has some chops. _________________ Resident Car Nut.
https://lakersdraft.substack.com/
I am not an economic advisor nor do I advise economic strategies or plans. |
|
Back to top |
|
|
epak Retired Number
Joined: 30 Aug 2005 Posts: 34147
|
Posted: Wed Oct 16, 2019 10:01 am Post subject: |
|
|
Mike@LG wrote: | epak wrote: | Can any of them dribble? |
Norvell has some chops. |
OP forgot to mention him |
|
Back to top |
|
|
MIMLaker Franchise Player
Joined: 18 Jul 2001 Posts: 10015 Location: Los Angeles/ Alhambra, CA
|
Posted: Wed Oct 16, 2019 10:03 am Post subject: |
|
|
Mike@LG wrote: | Hate to tell you this but they're almost all spot up guys.
Green and KCP are maybe average at running off screens.
Dribble pull ups, I think it's Green and Cook. |
Yeah, I was afraid of that possibility. Just trying to figure out how guys with shooters' reps seem to fall off when they get here. Whether it's the coaching, the practice styles, the change in offensive schemes every few years, or what. |
|
Back to top |
|
|
Mike@LG Moderator
Joined: 10 Apr 2001 Posts: 65135 Location: Orange County, CA
|
Posted: Wed Oct 16, 2019 10:06 am Post subject: |
|
|
MIMLaker wrote: | Mike@LG wrote: | Hate to tell you this but they're almost all spot up guys.
Green and KCP are maybe average at running off screens.
Dribble pull ups, I think it's Green and Cook. |
Yeah, I was afraid of that possibility. Just trying to figure out how guys with shooters' reps seem to fall off when they get here. Whether it's the coaching, the practice styles, the change in offensive schemes every few years, or what. |
Offensive schemes / player optimization
Team chemistry / ball movement _________________ Resident Car Nut.
https://lakersdraft.substack.com/
I am not an economic advisor nor do I advise economic strategies or plans. |
|
Back to top |
|
|
pjiddy Retired Number
Joined: 12 Dec 2005 Posts: 29186
|
Posted: Wed Oct 16, 2019 10:17 am Post subject: |
|
|
This thread really underscores what a piss poor understanding Rob has of "shooting" (or basketball in general). And two of the guys he signed (Cook and Daniels) are basically unplayable because of their defense. The rest of the "shooters" have duplicative skills and/or are being used the wrong way. He's also counting Rondo's zero gravity 35% shooting and Bradley's 2015 numbers as "better shooting."
Not good! |
|
Back to top |
|
|
epak Retired Number
Joined: 30 Aug 2005 Posts: 34147
|
Posted: Wed Oct 16, 2019 10:29 am Post subject: |
|
|
pjiddy wrote: | This thread really underscores what a piss poor understanding Rob has of "shooting" (or basketball in general). And two of the guys he signed (Cook and Daniels) are basically unplayable because of their defense. The rest of the "shooters" have duplicative skills and/or are being used the wrong way. He's also counting Rondo's zero gravity 35% shooting and Bradley's 2015 numbers as "better shooting."
Not good! |
Yep. We need some versatility like Lonzo, Hart, Ingram and Stephenson. Amirite? |
|
Back to top |
|
|
audioaxes Franchise Player
Joined: 26 Apr 2004 Posts: 12573
|
Posted: Wed Oct 16, 2019 10:46 am Post subject: |
|
|
pjiddy wrote: | This thread really underscores what a piss poor understanding Rob has of "shooting" (or basketball in general). And two of the guys he signed (Cook and Daniels) are basically unplayable because of their defense. The rest of the "shooters" have duplicative skills and/or are being used the wrong way. He's also counting Rondo's zero gravity 35% shooting and Bradley's 2015 numbers as "better shooting."
Not good! |
this is something that has me so frustrated about or coaching and FO. They should be smart enough to realize that Rondo's 35ish% shooting on wide open "I dare you to shoot" 3s is actually piss poor and in the meantime his defender is able to help off on others making it harder for Lebron and AD to operate
a good 3 point shooter is going to force teams to space out the paint more and still end up shooting 40% on high volume 3s _________________ (bleep) Kawhi |
|
Back to top |
|
|
Mike@LG Moderator
Joined: 10 Apr 2001 Posts: 65135 Location: Orange County, CA
|
Posted: Wed Oct 16, 2019 10:52 am Post subject: |
|
|
audioaxes wrote: | pjiddy wrote: | This thread really underscores what a piss poor understanding Rob has of "shooting" (or basketball in general). And two of the guys he signed (Cook and Daniels) are basically unplayable because of their defense. The rest of the "shooters" have duplicative skills and/or are being used the wrong way. He's also counting Rondo's zero gravity 35% shooting and Bradley's 2015 numbers as "better shooting."
Not good! |
this is something that has me so frustrated about or coaching and FO. They should be smart enough to realize that Rondo's 35ish% shooting on wide open "I dare you to shoot" 3s is actually piss poor and in the meantime his defender is able to help off on others making it harder for Lebron and AD to operate
a good 3 point shooter is going to force teams to space out the paint more and still end up shooting 40% on high volume 3s |
You know those 3 on 3 tournaments where every team has a token shooter or two?
This team feels like that, but it's 5 on 5. 2 franchise players, 3 shooters. Spot up guys too, not motion guys. _________________ Resident Car Nut.
https://lakersdraft.substack.com/
I am not an economic advisor nor do I advise economic strategies or plans. |
|
Back to top |
|
|
Baron Von Humongous Retired Number
Joined: 02 Jul 2015 Posts: 32979
|
Posted: Wed Oct 16, 2019 11:11 am Post subject: |
|
|
epak wrote: | pjiddy wrote: | This thread really underscores what a piss poor understanding Rob has of "shooting" (or basketball in general). And two of the guys he signed (Cook and Daniels) are basically unplayable because of their defense. The rest of the "shooters" have duplicative skills and/or are being used the wrong way. He's also counting Rondo's zero gravity 35% shooting and Bradley's 2015 numbers as "better shooting."
Not good! |
Yep. We need some versatility like Lonzo, Hart, Ingram and Stephenson. Amirite? |
Are those the only options, Magic? _________________ Under New Management |
|
Back to top |
|
|
cal1piggy Star Player
Joined: 19 Jul 2017 Posts: 2584
|
Posted: Wed Oct 16, 2019 11:23 am Post subject: Re: Which of our shooters are better on kick-outs/ dribbling off screens/ running off screens? |
|
|
MIMLaker wrote: | Read an article the other day saying how Green is more comfortable getting the ball off straight kick-outs rather than running off screens and then shooting. So, what kind of outside shot works best for our designated shooters, like...
Green?
KCP?
Daniels?
Cook?
Caruso?
Bradley?
Dudley?
Norvell? (Thanks, epak! )
Really hoping Vogel and our heavily D-minded staff take these things into account re: lineups, sets, etc.... |
we got lbj and ad for forcing the doubles
green has proven to be really good on set shots, why mess with that like they are trying to do.
and what about kuzma on the drives...
Last edited by cal1piggy on Wed Oct 16, 2019 11:25 am; edited 1 time in total |
|
Back to top |
|
|
Great One Star Player
Joined: 24 Jun 2005 Posts: 3174 Location: Girl I'm Back in Spanish Town
|
Posted: Wed Oct 16, 2019 11:24 am Post subject: Re: Which of our shooters are better on kick-outs/ dribbling off screens/ running off screens? |
|
|
money on daniels _________________ "Nobody hates the good ones. They hate the great ones." - KB |
|
Back to top |
|
|
epak Retired Number
Joined: 30 Aug 2005 Posts: 34147
|
Posted: Wed Oct 16, 2019 12:15 pm Post subject: |
|
|
Baron Von Humongous wrote: | epak wrote: | pjiddy wrote: | This thread really underscores what a piss poor understanding Rob has of "shooting" (or basketball in general). And two of the guys he signed (Cook and Daniels) are basically unplayable because of their defense. The rest of the "shooters" have duplicative skills and/or are being used the wrong way. He's also counting Rondo's zero gravity 35% shooting and Bradley's 2015 numbers as "better shooting."
Not good! |
Yep. We need some versatility like Lonzo, Hart, Ingram and Stephenson. Amirite? |
Are those the only options, Magic? |
Definitely should have gone after Tyreke Evans, Nerlens Noel, Mario Hezonja and Isaiah Thomas. |
|
Back to top |
|
|
SuperboyReformed Star Player
Joined: 07 Oct 2012 Posts: 4083
|
Posted: Wed Oct 16, 2019 1:11 pm Post subject: |
|
|
i feel like a lot of the comments here...are way too much extreme hot/cold conclusions on the quality of our players. our shooters are totally fine. not curry/klay, but not anything to worry about. i think they are good enough to win a ring. which is good enough. if we are not getting wide open looks for our shooters, and if we are not creating a DONK fest, then either our coaching is bad, injuries, refs, or lbj is not playing the right way. those are the only real places to point any fingers with this roster, which is a good roster. |
|
Back to top |
|
|
venturalakersfan Retired Number
Joined: 14 Apr 2001 Posts: 144584 Location: The Gold Coast
|
Posted: Wed Oct 16, 2019 1:46 pm Post subject: |
|
|
Mike@LG wrote: | Hate to tell you this but they're almost all spot up guys.
Green and KCP are maybe average at running off screens.
Dribble pull ups, I think it's Green and Cook. |
Cook did seem to do best in GS spotting up in the corner. _________________ RIP mom. 11-21-1933 to 6-14-2023. |
|
Back to top |
|
|
venturalakersfan Retired Number
Joined: 14 Apr 2001 Posts: 144584 Location: The Gold Coast
|
Posted: Wed Oct 16, 2019 1:49 pm Post subject: |
|
|
epak wrote: | pjiddy wrote: | This thread really underscores what a piss poor understanding Rob has of "shooting" (or basketball in general). And two of the guys he signed (Cook and Daniels) are basically unplayable because of their defense. The rest of the "shooters" have duplicative skills and/or are being used the wrong way. He's also counting Rondo's zero gravity 35% shooting and Bradley's 2015 numbers as "better shooting."
Not good! |
Yep. We need some versatility like Lonzo, Hart, Ingram and Stephenson. Amirite? |
As usual, no. Weird concept but there were other FAs we could have went after. It didn’t need to be one or the other. The players you mentioned can at least guard circles around those from the OP. _________________ RIP mom. 11-21-1933 to 6-14-2023. |
|
Back to top |
|
|
scout0_0 Starting Rotation
Joined: 06 Jul 2019 Posts: 918
|
Posted: Wed Oct 16, 2019 2:19 pm Post subject: Re: Which of our shooters are better on kick-outs/ dribbling off screens/ running off screens? |
|
|
Great One wrote: | money on daniels | yup |
|
Back to top |
|
|
pjiddy Retired Number
Joined: 12 Dec 2005 Posts: 29186
|
Posted: Wed Oct 16, 2019 2:41 pm Post subject: |
|
|
epak wrote: | Baron Von Humongous wrote: | epak wrote: | pjiddy wrote: | This thread really underscores what a piss poor understanding Rob has of "shooting" (or basketball in general). And two of the guys he signed (Cook and Daniels) are basically unplayable because of their defense. The rest of the "shooters" have duplicative skills and/or are being used the wrong way. He's also counting Rondo's zero gravity 35% shooting and Bradley's 2015 numbers as "better shooting."
Not good! |
Yep. We need some versatility like Lonzo, Hart, Ingram and Stephenson. Amirite? |
Are those the only options, Magic? |
Definitely should have gone after Tyreke Evans, Nerlens Noel, Mario Hezonja and Isaiah Thomas. |
Satoransky was one guy i really wanted. A 6'7 ballhandler who shot near 40% from 3, and can shoot off screens. He cost 10 million, or, a little less than what we spent on KCP and Quinn Cook. Does Rob even know who he is? Unclear, since he didn't play in the 2010 All-star game.
Terrance Ross could've also been had for about the same amount of money. Like a younger Danny Green except he's also a good shooter off screens.
Wes Matthews?
Justin Holiday? |
|
Back to top |
|
|
pjiddy Retired Number
Joined: 12 Dec 2005 Posts: 29186
|
Posted: Wed Oct 16, 2019 2:43 pm Post subject: Re: Which of our shooters are better on kick-outs/ dribbling off screens/ running off screens? |
|
|
Great One wrote: | money on daniels |
He and Quinn Cook will be strictly garbage time by midpoint of the season. Those guys guard like they're playing in flip flops. |
|
Back to top |
|
|
epak Retired Number
Joined: 30 Aug 2005 Posts: 34147
|
Posted: Wed Oct 16, 2019 3:19 pm Post subject: |
|
|
pjiddy wrote: | epak wrote: | Baron Von Humongous wrote: | epak wrote: | pjiddy wrote: | This thread really underscores what a piss poor understanding Rob has of "shooting" (or basketball in general). And two of the guys he signed (Cook and Daniels) are basically unplayable because of their defense. The rest of the "shooters" have duplicative skills and/or are being used the wrong way. He's also counting Rondo's zero gravity 35% shooting and Bradley's 2015 numbers as "better shooting."
Not good! |
Yep. We need some versatility like Lonzo, Hart, Ingram and Stephenson. Amirite? |
Are those the only options, Magic? |
Definitely should have gone after Tyreke Evans, Nerlens Noel, Mario Hezonja and Isaiah Thomas. |
Satoransky was one guy i really wanted. A 6'7 ballhandler who shot near 40% from 3, and can shoot off screens. He cost 10 million, or, a little less than what we spent on KCP and Quinn Cook. Does Rob even know who he is? Unclear, since he didn't play in the 2010 All-star game.
Terrance Ross could've also been had for about the same amount of money. Like a younger Danny Green except he's also a good shooter off screens.
Wes Matthews?
Justin Holiday? |
I think guys who can defend, playmake and shoot... are most of the time stars.
Or inconsistent, where one year they look to be on the cusp of being a star and the next, not so much.
Satoranský is interesting. I'd like to see how much minutes he gets this year. On the bulls right? I didnt get to watch much of him with Rob this year, so idk.
I had Justin on my fantasy team last year. I thought I wanted him on the Lakers prior, but guy was very inconsistent.
Wes? I too thought I wanted him. I think he was traded twice last year? Maybe we could have used him in a trade too and kept Lonzo
Sorry for taking this topic elsewhere.
Back to OP, I think our guards are flawed. I actually don't know which of these guys does what the best. But after the last couple of years where our 3 ball and FT% has been horrific, I'm looking forward to a change for the positive. |
|
Back to top |
|
|
epak Retired Number
Joined: 30 Aug 2005 Posts: 34147
|
Posted: Wed Oct 16, 2019 10:47 pm Post subject: |
|
|
I know it's just pre-season, but it was nice to see the Lakers shoot so well from 3 today. 15/30 @ 50%.
Hopefully the Lakers can be top 10 in 3pt% this year. |
|
Back to top |
|
|
wolfpaclaker Retired Number
Joined: 29 May 2002 Posts: 58419
|
Posted: Thu Oct 17, 2019 1:20 am Post subject: |
|
|
Spot up shooting is what you need when you have AD, Lebron.
If you are asking AD to set screens to open up a shooter on the move, that shooter better be Klay level.
I certainly wouldn't want him setting screens to free up a role player. The role player is there to make ADs job easier, not vice-versa.
The game plan is simple on offense. Start 5 out. Lebron runs point. AD or one of the Cs (McGee/Howard) set a screen. 2 spot up shooters at all times ready to snipe. If AD sets the screen, Howard/McGee look to cut to the basket and get a dunk (we saw this play yesterday). If teams double or help on a Lebron drive, then a set spot shooter is open. If they help on AD, same thing.
We're not running Trail Blazer, Warrior offense or have that kind of talent. Our talent is Lebron, AD and our elite size/power in the paint. Those are our strengths. Spot up and 3 point shooting is to keep defenses honest, and to make defenses pay for trying to help on our talent/strengths. The spot up shooting is there to compliment the core of the team's talent. It's not the core. Shooting from outside is the core of the Warriors and Blazers offense.
You can win without playing that way, because the Raptors did so. We're even more balanced than the Raptors. I think this Lakers team has the most floor balance you've seen on a team in a long time. |
|
Back to top |
|
|
Luminous8 Star Player
Joined: 26 Apr 2017 Posts: 2192
|
Posted: Thu Oct 17, 2019 2:46 am Post subject: |
|
|
Mike@LG wrote: | audioaxes wrote: | pjiddy wrote: | This thread really underscores what a piss poor understanding Rob has of "shooting" (or basketball in general). And two of the guys he signed (Cook and Daniels) are basically unplayable because of their defense. The rest of the "shooters" have duplicative skills and/or are being used the wrong way. He's also counting Rondo's zero gravity 35% shooting and Bradley's 2015 numbers as "better shooting."
Not good! |
this is something that has me so frustrated about or coaching and FO. They should be smart enough to realize that Rondo's 35ish% shooting on wide open "I dare you to shoot" 3s is actually piss poor and in the meantime his defender is able to help off on others making it harder for Lebron and AD to operate
a good 3 point shooter is going to force teams to space out the paint more and still end up shooting 40% on high volume 3s |
You know those 3 on 3 tournaments where every team has a token shooter or two?
This team feels like that, but it's 5 on 5. 2 franchise players, 3 shooters. Spot up guys too, not motion guys. |
Daniels can come off screens |
|
Back to top |
|
|
|