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| Was Magic the worst GM in Lakers history? |
| Yes |
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64% |
[ 32 ] |
| No |
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36% |
[ 18 ] |
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| Total Votes : 50 |
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numero-ocho
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Joined: 27 Jul 2004
Posts: 18236
Location: Los Angeles, CA
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 Posted: Tue Sep 17, 2019 11:53 am Post subject: |
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| dabask11 wrote: | Yes not only were his basketball moves terrible sans lebron, but the way he quit damaged his reputation as a person.
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He not only damaged his reputation but the reputation of this franchise. He didn't just quit. He tried to burn the house down on his way out.
How many free-agents have requested to meet with a former executive and have them explain why they left?
Magic could have the distinction of being one of the worst executives and worst coaches for the same franchise.
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2019
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| Posted: Tue Sep 17, 2019 12:22 pm Post subject: |
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You can argue Magic for LeBron and I won't dispute that. But you can also argue had he not decided to go all in on cap space, we could maybe have LeBron/AD now + Kuzma, BI, Lonzo.
We could have held onto D'lo, drafted Kuz 28, re-signed Randle, and then this past deadline traded D'lo/Randle/picks for AD. Or Randle, Ingram picks for AD and had AD/Kuz/LeBron/D'lo/Lonzo.
He let our 2 of our best trading pieces go for nothing. Not to mention having JC and Nance would have been great trader chips to get AD.
So overall direction was terrible, Then his smaller moves were idiotic. Waived Bryant. Traded Zu for nothing. etc. etc.
Yes. He was the worst. We could have still ended up with LeBron and AD + some collection of our young pieces. |
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kwase
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| Posted: Tue Sep 17, 2019 1:11 pm Post subject: |
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| Well, if lebron doesn't win a championship then I'll definitely say yes. Magic didn't get lebron, he was just the guy in charge at the time lebron wanted to come here. If Mitch was in charge then he still would have come. He wanted to be in L.A. period. If he didn't come here then it would have been the clippers. Actually, I think Magic got suckered and lebron had something to do with him quitting, but that's another topic for another day. |
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kikanga
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Location: La La Land
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| Posted: Tue Sep 17, 2019 1:27 pm Post subject: |
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| kwase wrote: | | If Mitch was in charge then he still would have come. |
The same Mitch that fans want to run out of Charlotte now?
Besides, Mitch was never in charge. Jim was head of BBall operations.
Tell that to LBJ, Melo, Derozan, ALdridge, Batum, D. Jordan. G. Monroe, etc. All the people we striked out on year after year in free agency which led us to the welcoming arms of Mozgov and Deng. I guess you could say we're better off not signing most of those guys then. But then why'd we go after them in the first place?
There are other GMs and head of Bball ops Bron would've said yes to. I have serious doubts Jim and Mitch were one of them. D. Jordan had to give us a 2nd interview before saying no just so our franchise could save face after being woefully, embarrassingly unprepared the 1st time around.
Magic was a bad head of bball ops. But lets not downplay his predecessor. Remember this? https://images.performgroup.com/di/library/sporting_news/77/a/chris-kaman-bench-2514-twitter-ftr_1ftcc6g6zsky71rcmez9mwflit.jpg Pepperidge farms remembers.
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kwase
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| Posted: Tue Sep 17, 2019 1:35 pm Post subject: |
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| kikanga wrote: | | kwase wrote: | | If Mitch was in charge then he still would have come. |
The same Mitch that fans want to run out of Charlotte now?
Besides, Mitch was never in charge. Jim was head of BBall operations.
Tell that to LBJ, Melo, Derozan, ALdridge, Batum, D. Jordan. G. Monroe, etc. All the people we striked out on year after year in free agency which led us to the welcoming arms of Mozgov and Deng.
There are other GMs and head of Bball ops Bron would've said yes to. I have serious doubts Jim and Mitch were one of them. D. Jordan had to give us a 2nd interview before saying no just so our franchise could save face after being woefully, embarrassingly unprepared the 1st time around. |
Mitch did great things for the Lakers pre-Jimbo. Charlotte has never attracted FA's so I'm not going to put that all on him. lebron was not a FA until 2018, so I'm not sure why you put his name in there among the guys that turned us down. People can believe what they want to believe, but lebron wanted to come here regardless. The guy has never done anything in his basketball life that wasn't self-serving. |
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kikanga
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| Posted: Tue Sep 17, 2019 1:37 pm Post subject: |
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| kwase wrote: | | kikanga wrote: | | kwase wrote: | | If Mitch was in charge then he still would have come. |
The same Mitch that fans want to run out of Charlotte now?
Besides, Mitch was never in charge. Jim was head of BBall operations.
Tell that to LBJ, Melo, Derozan, ALdridge, Batum, D. Jordan. G. Monroe, etc. All the people we striked out on year after year in free agency which led us to the welcoming arms of Mozgov and Deng.
There are other GMs and head of Bball ops Bron would've said yes to. I have serious doubts Jim and Mitch were one of them. D. Jordan had to give us a 2nd interview before saying no just so our franchise could save face after being woefully, embarrassingly unprepared the 1st time around. |
Mitch did great things for the Lakers pre-Jimbo. Charlotte has never attracted FA's so I'm not going to put that all on him. lebron was not a FA until 2018, so I'm not sure why you put his name in there among the guys that turned us down. People can believe what they want to believe, but lebron wanted to come here regardless. The guy has never done anything in his basketball life that wasn't self-serving. |
LBj returned to cleveland in 2014 after leaving Miami. He turned us down. IIRC, we didn't even get an interview.
I agree Mitch did great pre-Jimbo though. But his final years here. Jim and Mitch were a package deal.
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Last edited by kikanga on Tue Sep 17, 2019 1:39 pm; edited 3 times in total |
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yinoma2001
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| Posted: Tue Sep 17, 2019 1:37 pm Post subject: |
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| Quote: | | The guy has never done anything in his basketball life that wasn't self-serving. |
A happy TTTTTTTTTTTAAAAAAAAAAACCCCCCCCCCCCOOOOOOOOOOOO TUESDAY to you!!! 
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h2omike
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| Posted: Tue Sep 17, 2019 1:37 pm Post subject: |
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Got us Lebron, got us AD, or at least involved in the process.
Good rid of Deng. Got rid of Mosgov. Got rid of kids who couldn’t shoot the damn ball.
I think it’s a tossup worst GM dince Bill Sherman era, Mitch or Magic. |
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kikanga
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| Posted: Tue Sep 17, 2019 1:41 pm Post subject: |
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| h2omike wrote: | Got us Lebron, got us AD, or at least involved in the process.
Good rid of Deng. Got rid of Mosgov. Got rid of kids who couldn’t shoot the damn ball.
I think it’s a tossup worst GM dince Bill Sherman era, Mitch or Magic. |
It's not your fault. The OP mislabeled the title.
Magic and Jim had the same job (head of bball operations).
Rob and Mitch have/had the same job (GM).
As far as what Jim did in Magic's position. I don't think it's even close. Jim did alright as VP of player personnel. But as head of BBall ops. I'd put his record against any of the worst all time.
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venturalakersfan
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Location: The Gold Coast
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| Posted: Tue Sep 17, 2019 1:45 pm Post subject: |
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| cyborgspider wrote: | he wasn't GM.
Mitch & Jim weren't gonna attract Lebron.
If you hate Klutch and wanted to enjoy five more years of a mediocre young core, you'll think Magic was the worst.
If you're cool with arguably the greatest player ever (top 3 for sure) and a player who two years ago, NBA Twitter/Bloggernerds were crowning as potentially the greatest big man ever, on the Lakers roster, then you'll probably think he had his faults but was worth the pain. |
You seriously think that you saw a top 3 player ever on the Lakers last season?
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Inspector Gadget
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| Posted: Tue Sep 17, 2019 2:02 pm Post subject: |
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| venturalakersfan wrote: | | cyborgspider wrote: | he wasn't GM.
Mitch & Jim weren't gonna attract Lebron.
If you hate Klutch and wanted to enjoy five more years of a mediocre young core, you'll think Magic was the worst.
If you're cool with arguably the greatest player ever (top 3 for sure) and a player who two years ago, NBA Twitter/Bloggernerds were crowning as potentially the greatest big man ever, on the Lakers roster, then you'll probably think he had his faults but was worth the pain. |
You seriously think that you saw a top 3 player ever on the Lakers last season? |
Do averages 27/8/8 grow on trees?  |
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dabask11
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Joined: 27 Dec 2012
Posts: 1989
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| Posted: Tue Sep 17, 2019 2:14 pm Post subject: |
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| kikanga wrote: | | dabask11 wrote: | | kikanga wrote: | | If Jim Buss never existed. Sure. |
Nah Jim Buss was part of a championship team in the same position.
Magic couldn't even let the lakers finish at .500 for the season with lebron. |
Jim was promoted to vice president of player personnel in 2005. Still under his dad and the GM Mitch. No where near head of BBall operations. He inherited Phil Jackson (who he hated), a 27 year old Kobe Bryant and Lamar Odom. Even with that, we were a 1st round out at best for 3 years. We wasted prime Kobe years until we got Pau. |
The fact Jim in a lesser position as an executive still did enough to not get in the way despite inheriting such things and eventually leading to a championship is 10x better than Magic "I'll squander my assets" Johnson.
| kikanga wrote: |
Jim wasn't acting as a head of basketball operations (Magic's position) until his father got sick and died. In that position he gave away I dunno how many picks for Nash and Howard. Lost Howard in FA (after not hiring the coach he wanted, Phil). Failed at signing LBJ, Aldridge, Melo, Derozan, D. Jordan, even guys like Greg Monroe said no. So what did he do? Give away 2 of the worst contracts in the league to Mozgov and Deng. Similar to Dwight and Nash, both players played extremely limited time compared to the assets given up. Leading to year after year being the worst team in the conference. |
Magic proceeded to trade an all star for prematurely while getting rid of our youth for pennies on the dollar. That 10x worse than signing moz and deng because you can't get those assets back. The fact rob had to trade the kitchen sink and then some for AD shows how much magic wasted them unnecessarily.
Magic also stuck in nose unnecessarily like with scouting, which further shows his incompetence. He's also made stupids signings to counteract the effect of lebron.
| kikanga wrote: |
In 1 offseason Magic signed a better player than Jim ever did when he was in his same position (head of Bball operations). |
Results are the only thing that matter. The fact Magic's big signing couldn't even lead the team a .500 record says it all. Squandering your biggest signing by getting in the way and failing in other areas is even worse. It makes it questionable whether magic was even responsible for signing James.
Jim was an executive in enough capacity to know when not to cross the lines before the moz/deng signings and why he's was part of winning teams.
| kikanga wrote: |
Is Magic an above average head of Bball ops? No way. Is he worse than Jim? Don't make me laugh. |
Yet in the end Magic quit in a way that harmed both himself and the organization while trying to harm his successors by snitching in front of SAS in the worse possible way. Jim at least was professional enough to keep his mouth shut. Magic better than him? Don't make me laugh. |
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dabask11
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Joined: 27 Dec 2012
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| Posted: Tue Sep 17, 2019 2:19 pm Post subject: |
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| cyborgspider wrote: | he wasn't GM.
Mitch & Jim weren't gonna attract Lebron.
If you hate Klutch and wanted to enjoy five more years of a mediocre young core, you'll think Magic was the worst.
If you're cool with arguably the greatest player ever (top 3 for sure) and a player who two years ago, NBA Twitter/Bloggernerds were crowning as potentially the greatest big man ever, on the Lakers roster, then you'll probably think he had his faults but was worth the pain. |
'
The only reason we even have that big man is because of assets Jim and Mitch acquired through their losing.
The asset magic had created (cap space) was used for KCP and DG lol. |
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kikanga
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| Posted: Tue Sep 17, 2019 2:19 pm Post subject: |
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| dabask11 wrote: | | kikanga wrote: | | dabask11 wrote: | | kikanga wrote: | | If Jim Buss never existed. Sure. |
Nah Jim Buss was part of a championship team in the same position.
Magic couldn't even let the lakers finish at .500 for the season with lebron. |
Jim was promoted to vice president of player personnel in 2005. Still under his dad and the GM Mitch. No where near head of BBall operations. He inherited Phil Jackson (who he hated), a 27 year old Kobe Bryant and Lamar Odom. Even with that, we were a 1st round out at best for 3 years. We wasted prime Kobe years until we got Pau. |
The fact Jim in a lesser position as an executive still did enough to not get in the way despite inheriting such things and eventually leading to a championship is 10x better than Magic "I'll squander my assets" Johnson.
| kikanga wrote: |
Jim wasn't acting as a head of basketball operations (Magic's position) until his father got sick and died. In that position he gave away I dunno how many picks for Nash and Howard. Lost Howard in FA (after not hiring the coach he wanted, Phil). Failed at signing LBJ, Aldridge, Melo, Derozan, D. Jordan, even guys like Greg Monroe said no. So what did he do? Give away 2 of the worst contracts in the league to Mozgov and Deng. Similar to Dwight and Nash, both players played extremely limited time compared to the assets given up. Leading to year after year being the worst team in the conference. |
Magic proceeded to trade an all star for prematurely while getting rid of our youth for pennies on the dollar. That 10x worse than signing moz and deng because you can't get those assets back. The fact rob had to trade the kitchen sink and then some for AD shows how much magic wasted them unnecessarily.
Magic also stuck in nose unnecessarily like with scouting, which further shows his incompetence. He's also made stupids signings to counteract the effect of lebron.
| kikanga wrote: |
In 1 offseason Magic signed a better player than Jim ever did when he was in his same position (head of Bball operations). |
Results are the only thing that matter. The fact Magic's big signing couldn't even lead the team a .500 record says it all. Squandering your biggest signing by getting in the way and failing in other areas is even worse. It makes it questionable whether magic was even responsible for signing James.
Jim was an executive in enough capacity to know when not to cross the lines before the moz/deng signings and why he's was part of winning teams.
| kikanga wrote: |
Is Magic an above average head of Bball ops? No way. Is he worse than Jim? Don't make me laugh. |
Yet in the end Magic quit in a way that harmed both himself and the organization while trying to harm his successors by snitching in front of SAS in the worse possible way. Jim at least was professional enough to keep his mouth shut. Magic better than him? Don't make me laugh. |
So your argument is. Since Jim was in a lower less powerful position in 2005-2013. He didn't screw up as much as Magic because he couldn't?
And when he did take Magic's position, signing Deng and Mozgov (unplayable players) to 4 year contracts after striking out on Bron, Melo, Aldridge, Derozan, D. Jordan (embarrassingly), and G. Monroe was less worse than signing Bron and trading away DLO.
The 1st point, is insulting Jim and somehow claiming it's a good thing.
The 2nd argument I just flat out disagree with. You don't get credit on failing to sign 6 free agents in 3 offseasons. And I may be forgetting some people. It's probably more than 6.
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kikanga
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| Posted: Tue Sep 17, 2019 2:24 pm Post subject: |
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Notice I'm not arguing Magic was an above average head of Bball operations. I'm arguing. It tough to find a person EVER on ANY TEAM who failed as bad as Jim when he was head of bball operations.
I'm cool with giving Jim credit for not screwing up his dad and Mitch's plans before Jim became head of bball operations. Although that's not much of a compliment. Alot of people can show enough restraint to not screw up the plans of smarter, qualified bosses. Who knows if he could've screwed it up if he tried.
Even now, we got a Center because AD doesn't want to play Center. Dwight back then asked for Phil jackson as coach. And then he left the next offseason (for nothing) citing the FO didn't listen to him.
Arguing Magic is bad is easy. Arguing Jim is better is ... difficult. If Jim is still here, this upcoming season maybe we may have McGee lying flat on empty bench just like Kaman. Seems farfetched to fail that bad, but it was farfetched when Jim managed to do it the 1st time.
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pjiddy
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| Posted: Tue Sep 17, 2019 2:37 pm Post subject: |
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Whether you credit Magic or Rob, both had as little to do with getting Lebron and AD as I did.
Lebron already wanted to come to LA, he just wanted the Buss family drama gone. They could have put anyone as GM.
AD and his agent already wanted to come here. Pelinka gave up everything but Kyle Kuzma, which many think was one of the assets he should've most readily given up. His on the margin moves have been overpaying Danny Green and overpaying KCP.
I award no stars. Both share Worst Laker GM Ever title.
Last edited by pjiddy on Tue Sep 17, 2019 2:40 pm; edited 2 times in total |
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kikanga
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| Posted: Tue Sep 17, 2019 2:39 pm Post subject: |
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| pjiddy wrote: | Whether you credit Magic or Rob, both had as little to do with getting Lebron and AD as I did.
Lebron already wanted to come to LA, he just wanted the Buss family drama gone. They could have put anyone as GM.
AD and his agent already wanted to come here. Pelinka gave up everything but Kyle Kuzma, which many think was one of the assets he should've most readily given up. His on the margin moves have been overpaying Danny Green and overpaying KCP.
I award no stars. Both share Worst Laker GM Ever title. |
I'm more okay with this than trying to reverse engineer Jim Buss into a good FO head.
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pjiddy
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| Posted: Tue Sep 17, 2019 2:41 pm Post subject: |
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| kikanga wrote: | | pjiddy wrote: | Whether you credit Magic or Rob, both had as little to do with getting Lebron and AD as I did.
Lebron already wanted to come to LA, he just wanted the Buss family drama gone. They could have put anyone as GM.
AD and his agent already wanted to come here. Pelinka gave up everything but Kyle Kuzma, which many think was one of the assets he should've most readily given up. His on the margin moves have been overpaying Danny Green and overpaying KCP.
I award no stars. Both share Worst Laker GM Ever title. |
I'm more okay with this than trying to reverse engineer Jim Buss into a good FO member. |
You can penalize Jim for Mozdeng all you want, but under his watch, they barely gave up anything for an all-pro in his prime and won two titles. Even if Jim had nothing to do with all that, he deserves credit for staying out of his GM's way and making sure very little, if anything, ever leaked to the press. He was the anti-Magic in those aspects. |
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kikanga
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| Posted: Tue Sep 17, 2019 2:43 pm Post subject: |
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| pjiddy wrote: |
You can penalize Jim for Mozdeng all you want, but under his watch, they barely gave up anything for an all-pro in his prime and won two titles. |
They did not win 2 titles when he was head of bball ops.
And "barely giving up anything" is the best way I've heard anyone describe having the worst record in the league over consecutive years (tied with the Knicks).
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Inspector Gadget
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| Posted: Tue Sep 17, 2019 2:43 pm Post subject: |
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| pjiddy wrote: | Whether you credit Magic or Rob, both had as little to do with getting Lebron and AD as I did.
Lebron already wanted to come to LA, he just wanted the Buss family drama gone. They could have put anyone as GM.
AD and his agent already wanted to come here. Pelinka gave up everything but Kyle Kuzma, which many think was one of the assets he should've most readily given up. His on the margin moves have been overpaying Danny Green and overpaying KCP.
I award no stars. Both share Worst Laker GM Ever title. |
Danny Green isn’t overpaid, he deserves every money we gave him.. |
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kikanga
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| Posted: Tue Sep 17, 2019 2:45 pm Post subject: |
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Come on Pjiddy. You were here between 2013-2017. There is polishing a turd. And there is what you're doing when describing that time period.
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pjiddy
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| Posted: Tue Sep 17, 2019 2:52 pm Post subject: |
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| kikanga wrote: | | Come on Pjiddy. You were here between 2013-2017. There is polishing a turd. And there is what you're doing when describing that time period. |
I still liked the direction of the team. I was all in for developing the youth. This is what the team could look like right now:
Moz/Deng expiring
PG: DLO
SG: Hart
SF: Ingram
PF: Kuzma
C: Thomas Bryant/Zubac/(whoever we would've taken instead of moe (bleep) wagner thank you very much Rob)
Plus whoever we would've gotten in this year's draft
Package this year's pick + Hart + Kuzma + Moz or Deng to get Brad Beal
Sign AD as a free agent next season.
2020 Lakers
DLO/Beal/Ingram/AD/Bryant. All of our future picks. Nobody over the age of 27
Yes please. |
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pjiddy
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| Posted: Tue Sep 17, 2019 2:54 pm Post subject: |
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| Inspector Gadget wrote: | | pjiddy wrote: | Whether you credit Magic or Rob, both had as little to do with getting Lebron and AD as I did.
Lebron already wanted to come to LA, he just wanted the Buss family drama gone. They could have put anyone as GM.
AD and his agent already wanted to come here. Pelinka gave up everything but Kyle Kuzma, which many think was one of the assets he should've most readily given up. His on the margin moves have been overpaying Danny Green and overpaying KCP.
I award no stars. Both share Worst Laker GM Ever title. |
Danny Green isn’t overpaid, he deserves every money we gave him.. |
It's a testament to our lack of depth that he's our third best player/highest paid guy. He would be 4th or 5th best on a true contender. |
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kikanga
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| Posted: Tue Sep 17, 2019 3:00 pm Post subject: |
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| pjiddy wrote: | | kikanga wrote: | | Come on Pjiddy. You were here between 2013-2017. There is polishing a turd. And there is what you're doing when describing that time period. |
I still liked the direction of the team. I was all in for developing the youth. This is what the team could look like right now:
Moz/Deng expiring
PG: DLO
SG: Hart
SF: Ingram
PF: Kuzma
C: Thomas Bryant/Zubac/(whoever we would've taken instead of moe (bleep) wagner thank you very much Rob)
Plus whoever we would've gotten in this year's draft
Package this year's pick + Hart + Kuzma + Moz or Deng to get Brad Beal
Sign AD as a free agent next season.
2020 Lakers
DLO/Beal/Ingram/AD/Bryant. All of our future picks. Nobody over the age of 27
Yes please. |
It's tough to me to believe we sign AD and Beal when we couldn't sign so many people over those 3 offseasons.
And don't forget how we used to mismatch coaches and rosters.
Mike Brown turns Bynum into an allstar, we trade for Dwight (with Pau still on the roster). AND... ditch Brown for MDA who hated traditional big men.
We ditch MDA for Scott. And... draft DLO (a near perfect MDA PG).
2 steps forwards. At least 2 steps back.
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kwase
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| Posted: Tue Sep 17, 2019 3:04 pm Post subject: |
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| Inspector Gadget wrote: | | venturalakersfan wrote: | | cyborgspider wrote: | he wasn't GM.
Mitch & Jim weren't gonna attract Lebron.
If you hate Klutch and wanted to enjoy five more years of a mediocre young core, you'll think Magic was the worst.
If you're cool with arguably the greatest player ever (top 3 for sure) and a player who two years ago, NBA Twitter/Bloggernerds were crowning as potentially the greatest big man ever, on the Lakers roster, then you'll probably think he had his faults but was worth the pain. |
You seriously think that you saw a top 3 player ever on the Lakers last season? |
Do averages 27/8/8 grow on trees? |
No, but 26-25 with him starting, become "activated" and not making the playoffs do. lebron was horrible last season. Awful leadership, bad free throw shooting, running his mouth in the media about wanting AD and not playing a lick of defense led to us having a bad season. Top 3 player, GOAT....well that's subjective at best. I don't care what he did for other teams, I only care about what he does for us. Like I said, if he doesn't win a championship here then it's a complete failure and I've let it be known that I blame him and Magic. The clock is ticking........ |
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