Which of our shooters are better on kick-outs/ dribbling off screens/ running off screens?
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MIMLaker
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PostPosted: Wed Oct 16, 2019 9:17 am    Post subject: Which of our shooters are better on kick-outs/ dribbling off screens/ running off screens?

Read an article the other day saying how Green is more comfortable getting the ball off straight kick-outs rather than running off screens and then shooting. So, what kind of outside shot works best for our designated shooters, like...

Green?
KCP?
Daniels?
Cook?
Caruso?
Bradley?
Dudley?
Norvell? (Thanks, epak! )

Really hoping Vogel and our heavily D-minded staff take these things into account re: lineups, sets, etc....


Last edited by MIMLaker on Wed Oct 16, 2019 10:04 am; edited 1 time in total
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PostPosted: Wed Oct 16, 2019 9:21 am    Post subject:

Hate to tell you this but they're almost all spot up guys.

Green and KCP are maybe average at running off screens.

Dribble pull ups, I think it's Green and Cook.
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PostPosted: Wed Oct 16, 2019 10:00 am    Post subject:

Can any of them dribble?
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PostPosted: Wed Oct 16, 2019 10:00 am    Post subject:

epak wrote:
Can any of them dribble?


Norvell has some chops.
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PostPosted: Wed Oct 16, 2019 10:01 am    Post subject:

Mike@LG wrote:
epak wrote:
Can any of them dribble?


Norvell has some chops.


OP forgot to mention him
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PostPosted: Wed Oct 16, 2019 10:03 am    Post subject:

Mike@LG wrote:
Hate to tell you this but they're almost all spot up guys.

Green and KCP are maybe average at running off screens.

Dribble pull ups, I think it's Green and Cook.


Yeah, I was afraid of that possibility. Just trying to figure out how guys with shooters' reps seem to fall off when they get here. Whether it's the coaching, the practice styles, the change in offensive schemes every few years, or what.
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PostPosted: Wed Oct 16, 2019 10:06 am    Post subject:

MIMLaker wrote:
Mike@LG wrote:
Hate to tell you this but they're almost all spot up guys.

Green and KCP are maybe average at running off screens.

Dribble pull ups, I think it's Green and Cook.


Yeah, I was afraid of that possibility. Just trying to figure out how guys with shooters' reps seem to fall off when they get here. Whether it's the coaching, the practice styles, the change in offensive schemes every few years, or what.


Offensive schemes / player optimization
Team chemistry / ball movement
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PostPosted: Wed Oct 16, 2019 10:17 am    Post subject:

This thread really underscores what a piss poor understanding Rob has of "shooting" (or basketball in general). And two of the guys he signed (Cook and Daniels) are basically unplayable because of their defense. The rest of the "shooters" have duplicative skills and/or are being used the wrong way. He's also counting Rondo's zero gravity 35% shooting and Bradley's 2015 numbers as "better shooting."

Not good!
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PostPosted: Wed Oct 16, 2019 10:29 am    Post subject:

pjiddy wrote:
This thread really underscores what a piss poor understanding Rob has of "shooting" (or basketball in general). And two of the guys he signed (Cook and Daniels) are basically unplayable because of their defense. The rest of the "shooters" have duplicative skills and/or are being used the wrong way. He's also counting Rondo's zero gravity 35% shooting and Bradley's 2015 numbers as "better shooting."

Not good!


Yep. We need some versatility like Lonzo, Hart, Ingram and Stephenson. Amirite?
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PostPosted: Wed Oct 16, 2019 10:46 am    Post subject:

pjiddy wrote:
This thread really underscores what a piss poor understanding Rob has of "shooting" (or basketball in general). And two of the guys he signed (Cook and Daniels) are basically unplayable because of their defense. The rest of the "shooters" have duplicative skills and/or are being used the wrong way. He's also counting Rondo's zero gravity 35% shooting and Bradley's 2015 numbers as "better shooting."

Not good!

this is something that has me so frustrated about or coaching and FO. They should be smart enough to realize that Rondo's 35ish% shooting on wide open "I dare you to shoot" 3s is actually piss poor and in the meantime his defender is able to help off on others making it harder for Lebron and AD to operate
a good 3 point shooter is going to force teams to space out the paint more and still end up shooting 40% on high volume 3s
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PostPosted: Wed Oct 16, 2019 10:52 am    Post subject:

audioaxes wrote:
pjiddy wrote:
This thread really underscores what a piss poor understanding Rob has of "shooting" (or basketball in general). And two of the guys he signed (Cook and Daniels) are basically unplayable because of their defense. The rest of the "shooters" have duplicative skills and/or are being used the wrong way. He's also counting Rondo's zero gravity 35% shooting and Bradley's 2015 numbers as "better shooting."

Not good!

this is something that has me so frustrated about or coaching and FO. They should be smart enough to realize that Rondo's 35ish% shooting on wide open "I dare you to shoot" 3s is actually piss poor and in the meantime his defender is able to help off on others making it harder for Lebron and AD to operate
a good 3 point shooter is going to force teams to space out the paint more and still end up shooting 40% on high volume 3s


You know those 3 on 3 tournaments where every team has a token shooter or two?

This team feels like that, but it's 5 on 5. 2 franchise players, 3 shooters. Spot up guys too, not motion guys.
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PostPosted: Wed Oct 16, 2019 11:11 am    Post subject:

epak wrote:
pjiddy wrote:
This thread really underscores what a piss poor understanding Rob has of "shooting" (or basketball in general). And two of the guys he signed (Cook and Daniels) are basically unplayable because of their defense. The rest of the "shooters" have duplicative skills and/or are being used the wrong way. He's also counting Rondo's zero gravity 35% shooting and Bradley's 2015 numbers as "better shooting."

Not good!


Yep. We need some versatility like Lonzo, Hart, Ingram and Stephenson. Amirite?

Are those the only options, Magic?
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PostPosted: Wed Oct 16, 2019 11:23 am    Post subject: Re: Which of our shooters are better on kick-outs/ dribbling off screens/ running off screens?

MIMLaker wrote:
Read an article the other day saying how Green is more comfortable getting the ball off straight kick-outs rather than running off screens and then shooting. So, what kind of outside shot works best for our designated shooters, like...

Green?
KCP?
Daniels?
Cook?
Caruso?
Bradley?
Dudley?
Norvell? (Thanks, epak! )

Really hoping Vogel and our heavily D-minded staff take these things into account re: lineups, sets, etc....


we got lbj and ad for forcing the doubles
green has proven to be really good on set shots, why mess with that like they are trying to do.
and what about kuzma on the drives...


Last edited by cal1piggy on Wed Oct 16, 2019 11:25 am; edited 1 time in total
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PostPosted: Wed Oct 16, 2019 11:24 am    Post subject: Re: Which of our shooters are better on kick-outs/ dribbling off screens/ running off screens?

money on daniels
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PostPosted: Wed Oct 16, 2019 12:15 pm    Post subject:

Baron Von Humongous wrote:
epak wrote:
pjiddy wrote:
This thread really underscores what a piss poor understanding Rob has of "shooting" (or basketball in general). And two of the guys he signed (Cook and Daniels) are basically unplayable because of their defense. The rest of the "shooters" have duplicative skills and/or are being used the wrong way. He's also counting Rondo's zero gravity 35% shooting and Bradley's 2015 numbers as "better shooting."

Not good!


Yep. We need some versatility like Lonzo, Hart, Ingram and Stephenson. Amirite?

Are those the only options, Magic?


Definitely should have gone after Tyreke Evans, Nerlens Noel, Mario Hezonja and Isaiah Thomas.
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PostPosted: Wed Oct 16, 2019 1:11 pm    Post subject:

i feel like a lot of the comments here...are way too much extreme hot/cold conclusions on the quality of our players. our shooters are totally fine. not curry/klay, but not anything to worry about. i think they are good enough to win a ring. which is good enough. if we are not getting wide open looks for our shooters, and if we are not creating a DONK fest, then either our coaching is bad, injuries, refs, or lbj is not playing the right way. those are the only real places to point any fingers with this roster, which is a good roster.
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PostPosted: Wed Oct 16, 2019 1:46 pm    Post subject:

Mike@LG wrote:
Hate to tell you this but they're almost all spot up guys.

Green and KCP are maybe average at running off screens.

Dribble pull ups, I think it's Green and Cook.


Cook did seem to do best in GS spotting up in the corner.
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PostPosted: Wed Oct 16, 2019 1:49 pm    Post subject:

epak wrote:
pjiddy wrote:
This thread really underscores what a piss poor understanding Rob has of "shooting" (or basketball in general). And two of the guys he signed (Cook and Daniels) are basically unplayable because of their defense. The rest of the "shooters" have duplicative skills and/or are being used the wrong way. He's also counting Rondo's zero gravity 35% shooting and Bradley's 2015 numbers as "better shooting."

Not good!


Yep. We need some versatility like Lonzo, Hart, Ingram and Stephenson. Amirite?


As usual, no. Weird concept but there were other FAs we could have went after. It didn’t need to be one or the other. The players you mentioned can at least guard circles around those from the OP.
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PostPosted: Wed Oct 16, 2019 2:19 pm    Post subject: Re: Which of our shooters are better on kick-outs/ dribbling off screens/ running off screens?

Great One wrote:
money on daniels
yup
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PostPosted: Wed Oct 16, 2019 2:41 pm    Post subject:

epak wrote:
Baron Von Humongous wrote:
epak wrote:
pjiddy wrote:
This thread really underscores what a piss poor understanding Rob has of "shooting" (or basketball in general). And two of the guys he signed (Cook and Daniels) are basically unplayable because of their defense. The rest of the "shooters" have duplicative skills and/or are being used the wrong way. He's also counting Rondo's zero gravity 35% shooting and Bradley's 2015 numbers as "better shooting."

Not good!


Yep. We need some versatility like Lonzo, Hart, Ingram and Stephenson. Amirite?

Are those the only options, Magic?


Definitely should have gone after Tyreke Evans, Nerlens Noel, Mario Hezonja and Isaiah Thomas.


Satoransky was one guy i really wanted. A 6'7 ballhandler who shot near 40% from 3, and can shoot off screens. He cost 10 million, or, a little less than what we spent on KCP and Quinn Cook. Does Rob even know who he is? Unclear, since he didn't play in the 2010 All-star game.

Terrance Ross could've also been had for about the same amount of money. Like a younger Danny Green except he's also a good shooter off screens.

Wes Matthews?
Justin Holiday?
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PostPosted: Wed Oct 16, 2019 2:43 pm    Post subject: Re: Which of our shooters are better on kick-outs/ dribbling off screens/ running off screens?

Great One wrote:
money on daniels


He and Quinn Cook will be strictly garbage time by midpoint of the season. Those guys guard like they're playing in flip flops.
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PostPosted: Wed Oct 16, 2019 3:19 pm    Post subject:

pjiddy wrote:
epak wrote:
Baron Von Humongous wrote:
epak wrote:
pjiddy wrote:
This thread really underscores what a piss poor understanding Rob has of "shooting" (or basketball in general). And two of the guys he signed (Cook and Daniels) are basically unplayable because of their defense. The rest of the "shooters" have duplicative skills and/or are being used the wrong way. He's also counting Rondo's zero gravity 35% shooting and Bradley's 2015 numbers as "better shooting."

Not good!


Yep. We need some versatility like Lonzo, Hart, Ingram and Stephenson. Amirite?

Are those the only options, Magic?


Definitely should have gone after Tyreke Evans, Nerlens Noel, Mario Hezonja and Isaiah Thomas.


Satoransky was one guy i really wanted. A 6'7 ballhandler who shot near 40% from 3, and can shoot off screens. He cost 10 million, or, a little less than what we spent on KCP and Quinn Cook. Does Rob even know who he is? Unclear, since he didn't play in the 2010 All-star game.

Terrance Ross could've also been had for about the same amount of money. Like a younger Danny Green except he's also a good shooter off screens.

Wes Matthews?
Justin Holiday?


I think guys who can defend, playmake and shoot... are most of the time stars.
Or inconsistent, where one year they look to be on the cusp of being a star and the next, not so much.

Satoranský is interesting. I'd like to see how much minutes he gets this year. On the bulls right? I didnt get to watch much of him with Rob this year, so idk.
I had Justin on my fantasy team last year. I thought I wanted him on the Lakers prior, but guy was very inconsistent.
Wes? I too thought I wanted him. I think he was traded twice last year? Maybe we could have used him in a trade too and kept Lonzo

Sorry for taking this topic elsewhere.
Back to OP, I think our guards are flawed. I actually don't know which of these guys does what the best. But after the last couple of years where our 3 ball and FT% has been horrific, I'm looking forward to a change for the positive.
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PostPosted: Wed Oct 16, 2019 10:47 pm    Post subject:

I know it's just pre-season, but it was nice to see the Lakers shoot so well from 3 today. 15/30 @ 50%.


Hopefully the Lakers can be top 10 in 3pt% this year.
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PostPosted: Thu Oct 17, 2019 1:20 am    Post subject:

Spot up shooting is what you need when you have AD, Lebron.
If you are asking AD to set screens to open up a shooter on the move, that shooter better be Klay level.

I certainly wouldn't want him setting screens to free up a role player. The role player is there to make ADs job easier, not vice-versa.

The game plan is simple on offense. Start 5 out. Lebron runs point. AD or one of the Cs (McGee/Howard) set a screen. 2 spot up shooters at all times ready to snipe. If AD sets the screen, Howard/McGee look to cut to the basket and get a dunk (we saw this play yesterday). If teams double or help on a Lebron drive, then a set spot shooter is open. If they help on AD, same thing.

We're not running Trail Blazer, Warrior offense or have that kind of talent. Our talent is Lebron, AD and our elite size/power in the paint. Those are our strengths. Spot up and 3 point shooting is to keep defenses honest, and to make defenses pay for trying to help on our talent/strengths. The spot up shooting is there to compliment the core of the team's talent. It's not the core. Shooting from outside is the core of the Warriors and Blazers offense.

You can win without playing that way, because the Raptors did so. We're even more balanced than the Raptors. I think this Lakers team has the most floor balance you've seen on a team in a long time.
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PostPosted: Thu Oct 17, 2019 2:46 am    Post subject:

Mike@LG wrote:
audioaxes wrote:
pjiddy wrote:
This thread really underscores what a piss poor understanding Rob has of "shooting" (or basketball in general). And two of the guys he signed (Cook and Daniels) are basically unplayable because of their defense. The rest of the "shooters" have duplicative skills and/or are being used the wrong way. He's also counting Rondo's zero gravity 35% shooting and Bradley's 2015 numbers as "better shooting."

Not good!

this is something that has me so frustrated about or coaching and FO. They should be smart enough to realize that Rondo's 35ish% shooting on wide open "I dare you to shoot" 3s is actually piss poor and in the meantime his defender is able to help off on others making it harder for Lebron and AD to operate
a good 3 point shooter is going to force teams to space out the paint more and still end up shooting 40% on high volume 3s


You know those 3 on 3 tournaments where every team has a token shooter or two?

This team feels like that, but it's 5 on 5. 2 franchise players, 3 shooters. Spot up guys too, not motion guys.


Daniels can come off screens
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