Kobe almost a Clipper in 2004?
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Steve007
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PostPosted: Sun Jul 28, 2019 5:46 pm    Post subject:

LakersFanESS wrote:
Kobe almost left for the Clippers in '04 and asked for a trade to Chicago or Pluto or anywhere in '07. Both times I think Kobe was using his leverage to assure that Shaq would be gone and to wake up the Lakers into getting him a supporting cast that didn't include guys named Smush. It worked both times


The Lakers never had a chance to trade Kwame for Gasol in 2005, 2006 and 2007.

You guys saying the team didn’t try to win before 2007 are being inconsistent. You say the roster stunk, and then blame the front office for not getting another star. How do you get a star when you have almost no assets to trade? Odom and an unproven Bynum were the only ones worth anything.

Kwame only had value after Kobe made trade demands because he was an expiring contract. Marc Gasol and Crittenton were included in the deal. But the 2006 Lakers couldn’t make that deal because they didn’t have those assets yet.

Funny how the Gasol trade was made when the team actually had more to offer.
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CandyCanes
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PostPosted: Sun Jul 28, 2019 6:25 pm    Post subject:

Was Elton Brand a similar level player as Pau Gasol?
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moonriver24
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PostPosted: Sun Jul 28, 2019 7:46 pm    Post subject:

CandyCanes wrote:
Was Elton Brand a similar level player as Pau Gasol?

He was not at Gasol's level yet. a 24-year old Elton Brand was going to peak.
Corey Maggette;
23-year old Keyon Dooling,
Quinton Richardson,
Bobby Simmons;
21-year old Chris Kaman,
Chris Wilcox;
25-year old Marco Jaric,
Melvin Ely;
A lottery pick used to draft 19-year old Shaun Livingston.

== Now if Kobe were inserted in the squad --- the team would have made great noice in the first anniversary.. and probably a great chance of winning rings beginning the second anniversary... ===

I think many still remember 2005-06 and 2006-07 Kobe.
He would have not averaged 35 ppg because he wouldn't have to do so with such teammates. ... he probably would give it all he had during the playoffs to lead the squad.
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Steve007
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PostPosted: Sun Jul 28, 2019 8:37 pm    Post subject:

Brand was definitely better than Odom. Clippers had Chris Kaman in his prime too.

It’s no wonder why Kobe was so angry in 2007. He was trying to do the impossible and win with Odom and Kwame, looked over at the other LA team he could have joined and thought about what could have been. NOBODY saw the Gasol trade happening.
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UKUGA
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PostPosted: Mon Jul 29, 2019 4:49 am    Post subject:

Apparently, people are either very young, or don't remember.

1) The Clippers had cap room and "Kobe to the Clippers" rumors ran the entire season
2) It was announced in-season (around the AS Break) that the Lakers had ended salary negotiations with Phil Jackson
3) Jerry Buss told the media that he would "never trade 'my son'"
4) Kobe openly talked about his willingness to take meetings with the Knicks (and other teams) - he discussed this before the season was even over
5) When the season ended, Mitch expressed a willingness to trade Shaq at his post-season press conference
5B) Phil Jackson announced his "retirement"
6) Shaq was traded within a couple of weeks
7) Kobe met with the Suns and Knicks, all in LA.
8) Somewhere in there, the Lakers hired Rudy T.
9) It was widely believed that it was basically down to a coin toss between the Lakers and Clippers
10) At some point, the Clippers dumped some players to create cap room
11) When the salary cap numbers came out, they were lower than expected, which reduced the size of the contract the Clippers could give Kobe
12) Jerry Buss was on vacation in Europe (Italy?), but met with Kobe to try and influence him to stay. This was later reported to perhaps be the deciding factor in Kobe's decision
13) A date and time for Kobe's decision was released (something like noon PDT on a Thursday)
14) BREAKING NEWS that Kobe decided to remain a Laker
15) Press conference was the same day, IIRC. I watched it on ESPNews. Kobe signed his name to the contract live on camera
16) Kobe talked openly in the press conference about "no longer having the most dominant big man in the world"
17) During an in-season interview, IIRC, with Kornheiser and Wilbon, Kobe talked about having tried to work out a sign and trade with the Bulls (this is before the "No Deng. No Deal" Kobe situation in 2007).
Indication, from Kobe, was that the Bulls were his first choice, but the Lakers refused to trade him there in 2004 for what the Bulls had (which wasn't very much).



Note: So, the Lawler interview is interesting. And it's quite possible that the meeting with Buss is what changed Kobe's mind after giving the Clippers a verbal commitment.

The Clippers were good, and definitely would have been a title contender with Kobe.

That said, the best Clippers team was probably the 2005-6 team, which also had a healthy Sam Cassell. He was a key driver in elevating that team from a group that missed the play-offs in 2005, to a trip to the 2nd round in 2006.

I suspect Kobe would have won a title as a Clipper. However, the ownership and management structure of the Clippers at that time was nowhere near where it is today.
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oaktown_dimond
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PostPosted: Mon Jul 29, 2019 7:40 am    Post subject:

great, so MSG is trying to screw with both teams in the meantime. the clippers new arena and the , i'm sure, buss family's desire to evict the clippers from staples.

i personally think it's asinine ballmer wants to build the arena in Inglewood. why not orange county? you get LA, OC and SD folks all within proximity.

why blow over a billion dollars to still be the lakers bastard step child?

how's the angels attendance down there? decent right?


LonzoLegend2 wrote:
oaktown_dimond wrote:
Has the clippers arena broken ground yet? It seriously can not be built soon enough!

Just go away already!


Just to add to the fact that Dolan and MSG will NOT let Ballz build in such close proximity to the Forum and you have a nomadic team no one wants.

Anaheim, Seattle, or LV is there only play for once there lease at Staples expires in 5 years....lol.
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activeverb
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PostPosted: Mon Jul 29, 2019 9:27 am    Post subject:

lakersken80 wrote:
we knew they had a long way to be contending for titles.


I remember how some people here were talking about how we would probably have a remarkably fast rebuild because we were starting with a GOAT level player, which turned out to be the case.

We lost Shaq, and were only in basketball purgatory one year and then mediocre for two years after that. In the scheme of things, that's nothing. Heck, we were back in the finals in year 4. That's remarkable.

Most teams that lose a guy like Shaq aren't relevant for a decade if ever.
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UKUGA
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PostPosted: Tue Jul 30, 2019 4:29 am    Post subject:

activeverb wrote:
lakersken80 wrote:
we knew they had a long way to be contending for titles.


I remember how some people here were talking about how we would probably have a remarkably fast rebuild because we were starting with a GOAT level player, which turned out to be the case.

We lost Shaq, and were only in basketball purgatory one year and then mediocre for two years after that. In the scheme of things, that's nothing. Heck, we were back in the finals in year 4. That's remarkable.

Most teams that lose a guy like Shaq aren't relevant for a decade if ever.



Getting Phil back was huge.

In truth, we weren't that bad the first part of '04-'05, but Kobe got hurt, and later, so did Lamar.

If we had survived PHX in '06, we probably would have been in the WCF.

But, Phil's best work was probably in steadying the ship in '07, after Kobe nearly got traded.

That team was supposed to stink, but about 2-3 games in, really took off. The Ariza trade in November gave the team another huge, positive jolt, and things were really rolling until Bynum got hurt.

Then, Pau!
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Judah
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PostPosted: Tue Jul 30, 2019 9:28 am    Post subject:

UKUGA wrote:
activeverb wrote:
lakersken80 wrote:
we knew they had a long way to be contending for titles.


I remember how some people here were talking about how we would probably have a remarkably fast rebuild because we were starting with a GOAT level player, which turned out to be the case.

We lost Shaq, and were only in basketball purgatory one year and then mediocre for two years after that. In the scheme of things, that's nothing. Heck, we were back in the finals in year 4. That's remarkable.

Most teams that lose a guy like Shaq aren't relevant for a decade if ever.



Getting Phil back was huge.

In truth, we weren't that bad the first part of '04-'05, but Kobe got hurt, and later, so did Lamar.

If we had survived PHX in '06, we probably would have been in the WCF.

But, Phil's best work was probably in steadying the ship in '07, after Kobe nearly got traded.

That team was supposed to stink, but about 2-3 games in, really took off. The Ariza trade in November gave the team another huge, positive jolt, and things were really rolling until Bynum got hurt.

Then, Pau!

What role did Phil play during the Kobe trade saga anyway? Seems like his perspective on the whole situation and what he was actively doing while everything went down was pretty unreported.
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