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TheGodfather
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 Posted: Mon Jul 22, 2019 11:40 am Post subject: |
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| CervantesRises wrote: | | Omar...this is a great thread to lock, delete, and then burn. Hopefully I can say that without getting benched. |
Why is that?
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Aeneas Hunter
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| Posted: Mon Jul 22, 2019 12:05 pm Post subject: |
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| JerryMagicKobe wrote: | You run the Lakers and your PoBO quits and you need to hire a replacement.
Do you:
1. Speak with your trusted advisors and friends within and outside of the organization to compile a list of potential candidates, discuss them, argue for and against each one, rank them in order of preference, call them (or their reps), arrange meetings to assess their vision and fit to your organization and then hire the best one?
2. Hire Kurt Rambis |
Were you under the impression that (1) the Lakers hired Kurt Rambis as president of basketball operations, or (2) Kurt Rambis joined the front office after Magic quit? |
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TheGodfather
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| Posted: Mon Jul 22, 2019 12:26 pm Post subject: |
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| Aeneas Hunter wrote: | | JerryMagicKobe wrote: | You run the Lakers and your PoBO quits and you need to hire a replacement.
Do you:
1. Speak with your trusted advisors and friends within and outside of the organization to compile a list of potential candidates, discuss them, argue for and against each one, rank them in order of preference, call them (or their reps), arrange meetings to assess their vision and fit to your organization and then hire the best one?
2. Hire Kurt Rambis |
Were you under the impression that (1) the Lakers hired Kurt Rambis as president of basketball operations, or (2) Kurt Rambis joined the front office after Magic quit? |
Oh, you mean he only has the role of adviser and he only has as much power or sway as Jeanie gives him? 
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JerryMagicKobe
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| Posted: Mon Jul 22, 2019 12:40 pm Post subject: |
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| Aeneas Hunter wrote: | | JerryMagicKobe wrote: | You run the Lakers and your PoBO quits.
Do you:
1. Speak with your trusted advisors and friends within and outside of the organization to compile a list of potential candidates, discuss them, argue for and against each one, rank them in order of preference, call them (or their reps), arrange meetings to assess their vision and fit to your organization and then hire the best one?
2. Consult Kurt Rambis |
Were you under the impression that (1) the Lakers hired Kurt Rambis as president of basketball operations, or (2) Kurt Rambis joined the front office after Magic quit? |
I changed "Hire" to "Consult" and eliminated my supposition that Jeanie needs to do anything.
Would like to hear your thoughts. |
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JUST-MING
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| Posted: Mon Jul 22, 2019 12:50 pm Post subject: |
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| Who gets credit for putting together this roster? At one point it was literally just James, Davis and Kuzma. Who gets credit for putting together this coaching staff? It seems like fans are whining just for the sake of it. Look at the roster. Look at the staff. Why are fans complaining? |
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ocho
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| Posted: Mon Jul 22, 2019 12:56 pm Post subject: |
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| JUST-MING wrote: | | Who gets credit for putting together this roster? |
SpringHill Entertainment 
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trablos
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| Posted: Mon Jul 22, 2019 1:03 pm Post subject: |
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| lakez34 wrote: | | Dr. Laker wrote: | You guys are nuts if you don't think most front offices are populated by friends & family of the owner & GM.
Did a quick look at team FOs on Real GM - lots of scouts, assistants-to-the-X and assistant-directors-of-Y with the same last names of team bigwigs. |
I agree with you 100%. But, just because it happens doesn't make it any more acceptable. Still a problem, and still something us as fans don't have to support. |
Nepotism isn't really an issue... until it is. That's just how society works. A friend plugs you into a manager at his company to get you an interview, a board interviews the CEO's former colleagues to fill a VP position.. a directory at my company literally brought his whole team over from his other company when he joined. Nothing at all wrong with utilizing and growing your network, the problem isn't nepotism, the problem is unqualified people. If the problem were nepotism, we wouldn't be wanting West back. The problem is when nepotism take priority over merit. |
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LakersRGolden
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| Posted: Mon Jul 22, 2019 1:10 pm Post subject: |
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Rambis put together some adequate defenses for Phil. Rambis' record sense then has been lackluster. I don't care if he has a voice, but I do care if he has the only or one of too few voices.
I'm getting the feeling Rob isn't a moron, so I think he will likely assign Rambis' opinion it's proper weight. We just need more voices with experience in the room. |
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greenfrog
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| Posted: Mon Jul 22, 2019 1:30 pm Post subject: |
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| LakersRGolden wrote: | Rambis put together some adequate defenses for Phil. Rambis' record sense then has been lackluster. I don't care if he has a voice, but I do care if he has the only or one of too few voices.
I'm getting the feeling Rob isn't a moron, so I think he will likely assign Rambis' opinion it's proper weight. We just need more voices with experience in the room. |
He's not in a position to assign Rambis' voice to anything. Kurt exists in Jeanie's orbit, as does Pelinka. According to reports on the coaching search, his voice was of higher value than even Rob's. How else are we explaining Hollins on this staff?
Last edited by greenfrog on Mon Jul 22, 2019 1:32 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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Pureshot77
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| Posted: Mon Jul 22, 2019 1:31 pm Post subject: |
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| JUST-MING wrote: | | Who gets credit for putting together this roster? At one point it was literally just James, Davis and Kuzma. Who gets credit for putting together this coaching staff? It seems like fans are whining just for the sake of it. Look at the roster. Look at the staff. Why are fans complaining? |
It's easy to point at someone without a great resume and speculate that any success they are experiencing is based solely on luck or just circumstances. But at some point you got to just tip your hat. Hard to argue that things aren't trending in the right direction. |
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pjiddy
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| Posted: Mon Jul 22, 2019 1:35 pm Post subject: |
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| Pureshot77 wrote: | | JUST-MING wrote: | | Who gets credit for putting together this roster? At one point it was literally just James, Davis and Kuzma. Who gets credit for putting together this coaching staff? It seems like fans are whining just for the sake of it. Look at the roster. Look at the staff. Why are fans complaining? |
It's easy to point at someone without a great resume and speculate that any success they are experiencing is based solely on luck or just circumstances. But at some point you got to just tip your hat. Hard to argue that things aren't trending in the right direction. |
So...Kurt Rambis deserves credit for putting together this roster? |
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Pureshot77
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| Posted: Mon Jul 22, 2019 1:44 pm Post subject: |
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| pjiddy wrote: | | Pureshot77 wrote: | | JUST-MING wrote: | | Who gets credit for putting together this roster? At one point it was literally just James, Davis and Kuzma. Who gets credit for putting together this coaching staff? It seems like fans are whining just for the sake of it. Look at the roster. Look at the staff. Why are fans complaining? |
It's easy to point at someone without a great resume and speculate that any success they are experiencing is based solely on luck or just circumstances. But at some point you got to just tip your hat. Hard to argue that things aren't trending in the right direction. |
So...Kurt Rambis deserves credit for putting together this roster? |
He would not be solely responsible for anything. There are a lot of decision makers that go into reshaping the team, whether good or bad. He is getting bashed for being unqualified for his "consulting" role and I'm assuming that criticism is tied to some negative outcomes. Recently, the outcomes have been positive. |
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Aeneas Hunter
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| Posted: Mon Jul 22, 2019 3:09 pm Post subject: |
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| JerryMagicKobe wrote: | | Aeneas Hunter wrote: | | JerryMagicKobe wrote: | You run the Lakers and your PoBO quits.
Do you:
1. Speak with your trusted advisors and friends within and outside of the organization to compile a list of potential candidates, discuss them, argue for and against each one, rank them in order of preference, call them (or their reps), arrange meetings to assess their vision and fit to your organization and then hire the best one?
2. Consult Kurt Rambis |
Were you under the impression that (1) the Lakers hired Kurt Rambis as president of basketball operations, or (2) Kurt Rambis joined the front office after Magic quit? |
I changed "Hire" to "Consult" and eliminated my supposition that Jeanie needs to do anything.
Would like to hear your thoughts. |
The point is that Jeanie elected not to hire a new replacement for Magic. This has nothing to do with Kurt Rambis. He is a senior basketball advisor, just like he was with Magic. I’d prefer to see Jeanie bring in a truly qualified executive to run things. But why is it Kurt Rambis’ fault that she apparently doesn’t want to do so? |
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JerryMagicKobe
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| Posted: Mon Jul 22, 2019 4:06 pm Post subject: |
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| Aeneas Hunter wrote: | | JerryMagicKobe wrote: | | Aeneas Hunter wrote: | | JerryMagicKobe wrote: | You run the Lakers and your PoBO quits.
Do you:
1. Speak with your trusted advisors and friends within and outside of the organization to compile a list of potential candidates, discuss them, argue for and against each one, rank them in order of preference, call them (or their reps), arrange meetings to assess their vision and fit to your organization and then hire the best one?
2. Consult Kurt Rambis |
Were you under the impression that (1) the Lakers hired Kurt Rambis as president of basketball operations, or (2) Kurt Rambis joined the front office after Magic quit? |
I changed "Hire" to "Consult" and eliminated my supposition that Jeanie needs to do anything.
Would like to hear your thoughts. |
The point is that Jeanie elected not to hire a new replacement for Magic. This has nothing to do with Kurt Rambis. He is a senior basketball advisor, just like he was with Magic. I’d prefer to see Jeanie bring in a truly qualified executive to run things. |
We seem to agree on option 1.
| Aeneas Hunter wrote: | | But why is it Kurt Rambis’ fault that she apparently doesn’t want to do so? |
It isn't. I listed to the podcast and the criticisms directed at Kurt were:
1. Worst record in the history of the NBA as a head coach (41-151).
2. Misuse of Players (example given: played Porzingis at the 3) with no sign of progressing or learning from mistakes.
3. GT said that he believes that the Lakers are a premiere franchise who should hire the best consultants. He understands that Linda is Jeannie's friend and everyone should have a friend to consult with, so he gives her (mostly) a pass. Kurt, however was a poor choice as an advisor due to 1 and 2 above.
Those were GT's sentiments, they seem reasonable to me, and I didn't hear any hatred. |
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lakersfan8
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| Posted: Wed Jul 24, 2019 5:22 am Post subject: |
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| TheGodfather wrote: | | ocho wrote: | | TheGodfather wrote: | | ocho wrote: | | Let's frame it another way. What has Kurt Rambis accomplished in a front office to justify him having a high level role (basically the assistant GM) in the Lakers organization? The answer is nothing. He has no FO experience (something that we unfortunately seem to view as a plus). No training under someone experienced and accomplished. He was an assistant coach and then perhaps the worst head coach of the modern era. That's the resume. His wife is friends with the owner and that's why he has the job. That's an embarrassment worthy of mockery. |
Well, let's look at that another way. Did Linda Rambis get hired by the Lakers BECAUSE of the Lakers relationship with Kurt Rambis? Rambis has been with the team as a player and an assistance coach before Linda ever came on board. So why are we assuming Kurt's coming back on board is because of Linda? |
Precisely because without that connection it makes no sense for Kurt to be hired in the first place and there's a well documented history of nepotism in our organization. Kurt is taking the place of somebody capable and experienced and that should bother you. |
I don't think there is any doubt that nepotism is a huge issue. But that doesn't mean that Kurt cannot be successful in this role. Just seems that maybe we ought to wait and see what happens in the next 2-3 years with the organization before we make any kind of judgment on his front office abilities. Or will it just be assumed that if we do when two titles it will be in spite of him? |
Your opinion sound very similar to those who were supporting the Magic hire two years ago. |
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wolfpaclaker
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| Posted: Wed Jul 24, 2019 5:35 am Post subject: |
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Rambis never actually put Porzingis at 3 consistently. It was an experiment, and then when he actually was the associate, Porzingis was told to go to work as a 4 and exploit his mismatch. I think Porzingis became a better player with old school guys like Hornachek, Rambis and Phil around him. He was strictly an outside shooter and driver when he got to NY via draft. He was a great 3rd option type. Then he became into an all-star, and a nightmare to match up with in the paint, plus the outside game. Before he got the ACL, he made the all-star team. This was when Rambis coached him, as an associate HC. New York were far better under Hornachek, Rambis, than they ever showed or were under Fizdale. Even though Fiz is viewed as a good modern day coach - he has not done all that great IMO, and NY continues to be a mess.
His record as a head coach does not mean he does not know basketball. He was one of Phil's lead assistants in 4 of the championship runs, I believe. He worked a lot with Andrew Bynum. You don't hear stuff about Rambis, like you do Byron Scott. Either way, Rambo, isn't in LA to coach. It is to give his insight and opinion to Jeanie. I do not see the big deal in this. Is he negotiating trades? Making the final calls? I don't think so. Did we not just have a great offseason where we made some great moves? We had a clear cut plan A, then to move towards plan B, and then contingencies if plan B didn't work out. Plan A was to get Anthony Davis. Done. Plan B was to add Kawhi the best basketball player last year in the playoffs to LBJ/AD. Once that didn't happen we made solid moves to make the roster deep and skilled enough that a title run was realistic. Meanwhile opting to keep capspace for 2021, when the next time the free agent market will be wild.
I get concern about Rambis, and also concern that Jeanie only hires people she can trust, but so far, it has shown that Jeanie delivers on her promises to Laker fans. She said she wanted to give the Lakers a contender and do it the way Dr Buss did. 2 superstars, and an eye on the future. This is where we are at right now. I have zero interest in the gossip. She's got her flaws. So what. Dr Buss used to sleep with women 50 years younger than him, and often was questioned for how much he was willing to spend. If we lived in the social media age, Dr Buss would have had many negative stories about his personal life. Dr Buss hired within what he knew as well. Jerry West came up from the system and team as a player. Pat Riley was an announcer. They rarely went outside the Laker family. Mitch, a former Laker player. These are Laker executives, who were not all that trained or qualified, because they got their jobs based on what they did as players for the Lakers. Then they got work as Lakers executives. This is how Dr Buss did it. If you hate the way Jeanie does things, if social media existed, you probably would have questioned the way Dr Buss did things as well, 25-30 years ago.
The results speak for themselves. Lakers in 2 years have gone from 0 superstars, 0 chance at a title. To 2 superstars, and one of the front runners for the title. It may not work out, we may not win a title in these next 2 years. That's fine with me. We gave ourselves a real shot. And then, we can go to work in 2021 and go after Giannis and other top FAs. We should have Anthony Davis as a core player for 5 more years (although no guarantees). I have far less skepticism with this plan than the one Jim had. |
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Judah
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| Posted: Wed Jul 24, 2019 7:34 am Post subject: |
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| ocho wrote: | | TheGodfather wrote: | | ocho wrote: | | TheGodfather wrote: | | ocho wrote: | | Let's frame it another way. What has Kurt Rambis accomplished in a front office to justify him having a high level role (basically the assistant GM) in the Lakers organization? The answer is nothing. He has no FO experience (something that we unfortunately seem to view as a plus). No training under someone experienced and accomplished. He was an assistant coach and then perhaps the worst head coach of the modern era. That's the resume. His wife is friends with the owner and that's why he has the job. That's an embarrassment worthy of mockery. |
Well, let's look at that another way. Did Linda Rambis get hired by the Lakers BECAUSE of the Lakers relationship with Kurt Rambis? Rambis has been with the team as a player and an assistance coach before Linda ever came on board. So why are we assuming Kurt's coming back on board is because of Linda? |
Precisely because without that connection it makes no sense for Kurt to be hired in the first place and there's a well documented history of nepotism in our organization. Kurt is taking the place of somebody capable and experienced and that should bother you. |
I don't think there is any doubt that nepotism is a huge issue. But that doesn't mean that Kurt cannot be successful in this role. Just seems that maybe we ought to wait and see what happens in the next 2-3 years with the organization before we make any kind of judgment on his front office abilities. Or will it just be assumed that if we do when two titles it will be in spite of him? |
Hiring a bunch of inexperienced people because they're your pals and crossing your fingers that they stumble into success is not a sound strategy from a serious owner. We can bypass the whole waiting several years thing and just hire someone good who has already proven themselves. But she wants her buddies. Thats embarrassing, and that's why you're hearing that kind of 7th grade thinking being mocked on a podcast.
Btw the same "we need to wait 3 years before we judge" line was said about Magic Johnson. Maybe we should just stop operating this way so we don't have to wait 3 years after the last inexperienced person fails? |
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yinoma2001
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| Posted: Wed Jul 24, 2019 7:36 am Post subject: |
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| Quote: | | The results speak for themselves. Lakers in 2 years have gone from 0 superstars, 0 chance at a title. To 2 superstars, and one of the front runners for the title. It may not work out, we may not win a title in these next 2 years. That's fine with me. We gave ourselves a real shot. And then, we can go to work in 2021 and go after Giannis and other top FAs. We should have Anthony Davis as a core player for 5 more years (although no guarantees). I have far less skepticism with this plan than the one Jim had. |
Was this the result of Rambis?
With a better FO, could we have done better?
These are fair questions to ask.
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lakerican
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Joined: 09 May 2005
Posts: 3786
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| Posted: Wed Jul 24, 2019 9:31 am Post subject: |
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| yinoma2001 wrote: | | Quote: | | The results speak for themselves. Lakers in 2 years have gone from 0 superstars, 0 chance at a title. To 2 superstars, and one of the front runners for the title. It may not work out, we may not win a title in these next 2 years. That's fine with me. We gave ourselves a real shot. And then, we can go to work in 2021 and go after Giannis and other top FAs. We should have Anthony Davis as a core player for 5 more years (although no guarantees). I have far less skepticism with this plan than the one Jim had. |
Was this the result of Rambis?
With a better FO, could we have done better?
These are fair questions to ask. |
Yin, Wolf just state his opinion in the paragraph before.
" I do not see the big deal in this. Is he negotiating trades? Making the final calls? I don't think so. Did we not just have a great offseason where we made some great moves? " |
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yinoma2001
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| Posted: Wed Jul 24, 2019 9:45 am Post subject: |
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| lakerican wrote: | | yinoma2001 wrote: | | Quote: | | The results speak for themselves. Lakers in 2 years have gone from 0 superstars, 0 chance at a title. To 2 superstars, and one of the front runners for the title. It may not work out, we may not win a title in these next 2 years. That's fine with me. We gave ourselves a real shot. And then, we can go to work in 2021 and go after Giannis and other top FAs. We should have Anthony Davis as a core player for 5 more years (although no guarantees). I have far less skepticism with this plan than the one Jim had. |
Was this the result of Rambis?
With a better FO, could we have done better?
These are fair questions to ask. |
Yin, Wolf just state his opinion in the paragraph before.
" I do not see the big deal in this. Is he negotiating trades? Making the final calls? I don't think so. Did we not just have a great offseason where we made some great moves? " |
But my main issue is that we limit the field of competent FO people by doing it this way. Why are we not hiring a POBO? Oh, b/c Rambis is unofficially doing it. If it's official, make it official. This shadow POBO led by Rambii is not doing anyone any favors.
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Aeneas Hunter
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| Posted: Wed Jul 24, 2019 9:52 am Post subject: |
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| yinoma2001 wrote: | | Quote: | | The results speak for themselves. Lakers in 2 years have gone from 0 superstars, 0 chance at a title. To 2 superstars, and one of the front runners for the title. It may not work out, we may not win a title in these next 2 years. That's fine with me. We gave ourselves a real shot. And then, we can go to work in 2021 and go after Giannis and other top FAs. We should have Anthony Davis as a core player for 5 more years (although no guarantees). I have far less skepticism with this plan than the one Jim had. |
Was this the result of Rambis?
With a better FO, could we have done better?
These are fair questions to ask. |
Rambis is not coextensive with the FO. I understand that many people wish that we had a different sort of front office. Fair enough. But why do people fixate on Rambis and, recently, the non sequitur of his coaching record? I suspect that this is primarily a way of indirectly criticizing Jeanie Buss and that it really has nothing to do with Rambis.
So now Rambis is the shadow PoBO? Where does this stuff come from? If there is a shadow PoBO, it's Jeanie Buss. |
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pjiddy
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Posts: 29057
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| Posted: Wed Jul 24, 2019 9:58 am Post subject: |
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| Pureshot77 wrote: | | pjiddy wrote: | | Pureshot77 wrote: | | JUST-MING wrote: | | Who gets credit for putting together this roster? At one point it was literally just James, Davis and Kuzma. Who gets credit for putting together this coaching staff? It seems like fans are whining just for the sake of it. Look at the roster. Look at the staff. Why are fans complaining? |
It's easy to point at someone without a great resume and speculate that any success they are experiencing is based solely on luck or just circumstances. But at some point you got to just tip your hat. Hard to argue that things aren't trending in the right direction. |
So...Kurt Rambis deserves credit for putting together this roster? |
He would not be solely responsible for anything. There are a lot of decision makers that go into reshaping the team, whether good or bad. He is getting bashed for being unqualified for his "consulting" role and I'm assuming that criticism is tied to some negative outcomes. Recently, the outcomes have been positive. |
I thought it was tied to his horrendous coaching record and his association with Phil, who was one of the worst GMs in recent memory. If they see the game/roster construction in a similar way, it's a viewpoint we don't need. |
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yinoma2001
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| Posted: Wed Jul 24, 2019 10:06 am Post subject: |
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| Aeneas Hunter wrote: | | yinoma2001 wrote: | | Quote: | | The results speak for themselves. Lakers in 2 years have gone from 0 superstars, 0 chance at a title. To 2 superstars, and one of the front runners for the title. It may not work out, we may not win a title in these next 2 years. That's fine with me. We gave ourselves a real shot. And then, we can go to work in 2021 and go after Giannis and other top FAs. We should have Anthony Davis as a core player for 5 more years (although no guarantees). I have far less skepticism with this plan than the one Jim had. |
Was this the result of Rambis?
With a better FO, could we have done better?
These are fair questions to ask. |
Rambis is not coextensive with the FO. I understand that many people wish that we had a different sort of front office. Fair enough. But why do people fixate on Rambis and, recently, the non sequitur of his coaching record? I suspect that this is primarily a way of indirectly criticizing Jeanie Buss and that it really has nothing to do with Rambis.
So now Rambis is the shadow PoBO? Where does this stuff come from? If there is a shadow PoBO, it's Jeanie Buss. |
How do we know this? It's not like the Lakers with Jeanie operate with clear hierarchical lines. There were reports that some of the hires this summer were the result of Rambis. Does Rob report to Jeanie and/or Kurt? Does he get to go in and out of the command and control structure of the Lakers?
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Aeneas Hunter
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| Posted: Wed Jul 24, 2019 10:16 am Post subject: |
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| yinoma2001 wrote: | | Aeneas Hunter wrote: | | So now Rambis is the shadow PoBO? Where does this stuff come from? If there is a shadow PoBO, it's Jeanie Buss. |
How do we know this? It's not like the Lakers with Jeanie operate with clear hierarchical lines. There were reports that some of the hires this summer were the result of Rambis. Does Rob report to Jeanie and/or Kurt? Does he get to go in and out of the command and control structure of the Lakers? |
What the heck does that mean? Because people aren't sure exactly what Rambis does, this means that he must be shadow PoBO? So Pelinka might be reporting to Rambis? As best I can tell, this is something that has been created on message boards from nothing. |
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activeverb
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Posts: 37470
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| Posted: Wed Jul 24, 2019 12:13 pm Post subject: |
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| JerryMagicKobe wrote: | I listed to the podcast and the criticisms directed at Kurt were:
1. Worst record in the history of the NBA as a head coach (41-151).
2. Misuse of Players (example given: played Porzingis at the 3) with no sign of progressing or learning from mistakes.
3. GT said that he believes that the Lakers are a premiere franchise who should hire the best consultants. He understands that Linda is Jeannie's friend and everyone should have a friend to consult with, so he gives her (mostly) a pass. Kurt, however was a poor choice as an advisor due to 1 and 2 above.
Those were GT's sentiments, they seem reasonable to me, and I didn't hear any hatred. |
Eh. There are lots of guys who are good coaches but bad executives and vice versa. I don't see that Rambis record as a coach proves he gives bad advice on constructing a team, anymore than Phil Jackson's great coaching record proves he is a great executive.
Anyway, no one on the outside seems to have any clue what Rambis actually does, what advice he's given, or what role he's played in events. To me, the kind of comments you listed above are little more than filling allotted space that needs to be filled with something, which is a great deal of sports reporting these days.
I don't pretend to have idea if he's done a good job or bad job doing whatever the heck his job is. |
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