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| How do you grade the Lakers offseason? |
| A |
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47% |
[ 70 ] |
| B |
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41% |
[ 61 ] |
| C |
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10% |
[ 16 ] |
| D |
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0% |
[ 1 ] |
| F |
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0% |
[ 0 ] |
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| Total Votes : 148 |
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governator
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 Posted: Tue Jul 16, 2019 8:28 am Post subject: |
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https://www.espn.com/nba/story/_/id/27189056/nba-power-rankings-league-best-teams-now
6. Los Angeles Lakers
2018-19 record: 37-45
2020 title odds: 3-1
Previous rank: No. 8
A chaotic offseason started with Magic Johnson resigning and putting Rob Pelinka on blast as well as a coaching search that saw negotiations with Ty Lue fall apart before the Lakers hired Frank Vogel. But once the chaos settled, the Lakers landed their highly coveted second superstar and another franchise superstar big man to build around for the foreseeable future in Anthony Davis. Pelinka paid a heavy price in having to send out Lonzo Ball, Brandon Ingram and Josh Hart, three first-round picks, a pick swap and cash to acquire Davis and create as much cap space as possible. They then waited and failed to persuade Kawhi Leonard to come, but acted quickly in free agency by surrounding LeBron James and Davis with several experienced veterans. The Lakers believe they have addressed their mistake from a year ago by adding shooters like Danny Green, Quinn Cook, Jared Dudley and Troy Daniels. They believe they have 3-and-D guys with the additions of Green, Avery Bradley and the re-signed Kentavious Caldwell-Pope. And they added size with DeMarcus Cousins and re-signed JaVale McGee while also bolstering their backcourt depth and bringing Alex Caruso back. This is a roster built to contend for a championship, and anything short of a deep playoff run will be a disappointment. -- Youngmisuk
Key additions: Anthony Davis, DeMarcus Cousins, Danny Green, Jared Dudley, Avery Bradley
Key subtractions: Brandon Ingram, Lonzo Ball, Josh Hart, Tyson Chandler |
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venturalakersfan
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| Posted: Tue Jul 16, 2019 8:47 am Post subject: |
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| yinoma2001 wrote: | | venturalakersfan wrote: | | yinoma2001 wrote: | | venturalakersfan wrote: | | yinoma2001 wrote: | The trade was somewhat predicated on the fact that since we had so many draft picks, we didn't populate the team with tradeable assets. Maybe having Deng still on the books may have provided enough salary ballast.
But in order to have a shot at a trio of KL/AD/LBJ they needed to trade everything off the books to get 3 max players.
If we had Deng on the books and the Pels didn't want him, we wouldn't have space for a 3rd FA to begin with. |
They weren’t tradable assets because they were being paid nothing. Trades in the NBA are still numbers oriented and the only way to make the AD trade work was to add more low salaried players. The problem isn’t trading the young players, it is the lack of planning. |
The goal seemed to be 3 max players (2 via FA + 1 via trade). They put themselves in a position but had bad intel on Kawhi (and so did everyone else).
But if we held onto Deng, we would not have had the cap space to get a 3rd max player b/c BI/Lonzo/4th pick would take up too much space so they would have likely gone out regardless. |
That has been the problem for several years now, little flexibility. Chasing a dream instead of operating as most teams do. You see other teams make moves by moving salaries around, they don’t empty the coffers every offseason and chase the latest thing. We wanted Pau, we had Kwame’s salary to trade. Clippers wanted George, they had Gallo’s salary to trade. Raptors wanted Kawhi, they had DeRozan’s salary to trade. That is where our FO could use some experienced leadership. |
And now they have two top 7 players, and a bunch of tradeable assets on no greater than 2 year deals. I think Rob has made mistakes (and I think a lot of it is attributable to Magic), but he has really done a good job recovering from Kawhi. |
I’m not trying to crap on Pelinka, any blame should go to those above his pay grade who failed to give him guidance. He is learning as he goes, the unfortunate thing is that he is learning during Lebron’s short tenure here. As for tradable assets, I would begin and end that list with Green.
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activeverb
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| Posted: Tue Jul 16, 2019 9:15 am Post subject: |
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| venturalakersfan wrote: | | governator wrote: | | 2019 wrote: | | lakersfan8 wrote: | Overall Grade C
This front office gave away young talent to create cap space and ended up signing role players. I don’t know how can some people give them grade A. Trading for AD is not an achievement if they overpaid. |
Technically, it wasn't this front office. Magic we calling the shots then.
In reality, we could have had a roster where instead of Green, KCP, Boogie, etc we had some pieces of our youth left over. |
How would the $ match the AD salary for the trade now that we know Bullocks can't be used for S&T? Kuz makes too little, isn't still had to be Ball/BI +/- Hart or Kuz? |
That is why we shouldn’t give an A grade. The FO put us in a position where we had to trade every promising young player, not because we wanted to. Poor cap management. |
Salary considerations didn't require us to toss in all the young guys. That's what the Pelicans required to make the deal. If the Pelicans would have taken draft picks, we could absorbed AD into our cap space and kept the young guys, and given up on the botion of going after another max guy. |
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SGV-Laker fan
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| Posted: Tue Jul 16, 2019 9:28 am Post subject: |
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| C in my book. that AD trade was not due to our FO's effort, we had the best offer and N.O. took it. their failure to sign another big name perimeter star is the elephant in the room. everyone wants to talk about how great LeBron and AD will be, for this coming season sure, but what about beyond? LeBron is closer to his farewell tour than starting another title push. AD's pending free agency will cast cloud on this team throughout the season, i just trust the signature on the dotted line more than those "signs". i know Pelinka is composing rest of the team with 2-year contracts, but that's just like a semi-punt, we've been gong through that last several years now. this team needs consistency, right now they still don't have any. LeBron's age, AD's free agency and failure to lock up another prime star are all contributing to this. |
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yinoma2001
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| Posted: Tue Jul 16, 2019 9:42 am Post subject: |
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| SGV-Laker fan wrote: | | C in my book. that AD trade was not due to our FO's effort, we had the best offer and N.O. took it. their failure to sign another big name perimeter star is the elephant in the room. everyone wants to talk about how great LeBron and AD will be, for this coming season sure, but what about beyond? LeBron is closer to his farewell tour than starting another title push. AD's pending free agency will cast cloud on this team throughout the season, i just trust the signature on the dotted line more than those "signs". i know Pelinka is composing rest of the team with 2-year contracts, but that's just like a semi-punt, we've been gong through that last several years now. this team needs consistency, right now they still don't have any. LeBron's age, AD's free agency and failure to lock up another prime star are all contributing to this. |
Yeah. They'll be contenders the next 2 years and then they've punted down to 2021.
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LandsbergerRules
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| Posted: Tue Jul 16, 2019 9:54 am Post subject: |
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| governator wrote: | https://www.espn.com/nba/story/_/id/27189056/nba-power-rankings-league-best-teams-now
6. Los Angeles Lakers
2018-19 record: 37-45
2020 title odds: 3-1
Previous rank: No. 8
A chaotic offseason started with Magic Johnson resigning and putting Rob Pelinka on blast as well as a coaching search that saw negotiations with Ty Lue fall apart before the Lakers hired Frank Vogel. But once the chaos settled, the Lakers landed their highly coveted second superstar and another franchise superstar big man to build around for the foreseeable future in Anthony Davis. Pelinka paid a heavy price in having to send out Lonzo Ball, Brandon Ingram and Josh Hart, three first-round picks, a pick swap and cash to acquire Davis and create as much cap space as possible. They then waited and failed to persuade Kawhi Leonard to come, but acted quickly in free agency by surrounding LeBron James and Davis with several experienced veterans. The Lakers believe they have addressed their mistake from a year ago by adding shooters like Danny Green, Quinn Cook, Jared Dudley and Troy Daniels. They believe they have 3-and-D guys with the additions of Green, Avery Bradley and the re-signed Kentavious Caldwell-Pope. And they added size with DeMarcus Cousins and re-signed JaVale McGee while also bolstering their backcourt depth and bringing Alex Caruso back. This is a roster built to contend for a championship, and anything short of a deep playoff run will be a disappointment. -- Youngmisuk
Key additions: Anthony Davis, DeMarcus Cousins, Danny Green, Jared Dudley, Avery Bradley
Key subtractions: Brandon Ingram, Lonzo Ball, Josh Hart, Tyson Chandler |
I like this rating. It'll be more gratifying when we surprise the sports media talking heads that are underrating us.
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yinoma2001
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| Posted: Tue Jul 16, 2019 9:56 am Post subject: |
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For the last 6 years, we were pretty much at the bottom of every ranking (except last year until LBJ's groin popped).
I'll happily take ESPN's 6th ranking right now.
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ahaider
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| Posted: Tue Jul 16, 2019 10:00 am Post subject: |
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| SGV-Laker fan wrote: | | C in my book. that AD trade was not due to our FO's effort, we had the best offer and N.O. took it. their failure to sign another big name perimeter star is the elephant in the room. everyone wants to talk about how great LeBron and AD will be, for this coming season sure, but what about beyond? LeBron is closer to his farewell tour than starting another title push. AD's pending free agency will cast cloud on this team throughout the season, i just trust the signature on the dotted line more than those "signs". i know Pelinka is composing rest of the team with 2-year contracts, but that's just like a semi-punt, we've been gong through that last several years now. this team needs consistency, right now they still don't have any. LeBron's age, AD's free agency and failure to lock up another prime star are all contributing to this. |
C based on what criteria? Feels like subjective grading rather than on some actionable metrics.
There's no such thing as a semi punt. You either have expiring contracts or you don't. If you sign players to overpriced 1 year deals to preserve cap space you're punting.
Anything greater than 1 year is a multi-year commitment. Players opt out early anyways so really the greatest commitment you can get is 3 years from a player.
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"The key to good decision making is not knowledge. It is understanding. We are swimming in the former. We are desperately lacking in the latter." - Malcom Gladwell |
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venturalakersfan
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| Posted: Tue Jul 16, 2019 10:06 am Post subject: |
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| activeverb wrote: | | venturalakersfan wrote: | | governator wrote: | | 2019 wrote: | | lakersfan8 wrote: | Overall Grade C
This front office gave away young talent to create cap space and ended up signing role players. I don’t know how can some people give them grade A. Trading for AD is not an achievement if they overpaid. |
Technically, it wasn't this front office. Magic we calling the shots then.
In reality, we could have had a roster where instead of Green, KCP, Boogie, etc we had some pieces of our youth left over. |
How would the $ match the AD salary for the trade now that we know Bullocks can't be used for S&T? Kuz makes too little, isn't still had to be Ball/BI +/- Hart or Kuz? |
That is why we shouldn’t give an A grade. The FO put us in a position where we had to trade every promising young player, not because we wanted to. Poor cap management. |
Salary considerations didn't require us to toss in all the young guys. That's what the Pelicans required to make the deal. If the Pelicans would have taken draft picks, we could absorbed AD into our cap space and kept the young guys, and given up on the botion of going after another max guy. |
Which I would have preferred but the FO planned differently.
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anth2000
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| Posted: Tue Jul 16, 2019 10:07 am Post subject: |
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| SGV-Laker fan wrote: | | C in my book. that AD trade was not due to our FO's effort, we had the best offer and N.O. took it. their failure to sign another big name perimeter star is the elephant in the room. everyone wants to talk about how great LeBron and AD will be, for this coming season sure, but what about beyond? LeBron is closer to his farewell tour than starting another title push. AD's pending free agency will cast cloud on this team throughout the season, i just trust the signature on the dotted line more than those "signs". i know Pelinka is composing rest of the team with 2-year contracts, but that's just like a semi-punt, we've been gong through that last several years now. this team needs consistency, right now they still don't have any. LeBron's age, AD's free agency and failure to lock up another prime star are all contributing to this. |
C??? Are you crazy? Ok, so it would have been better to have overpaid for any big free agent that wouldn't fit? Then we wouldn't have been able to sign the talent they signed.
I would say an A- is the lowest grade I could give the FO. They did an excellent job. |
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venturalakersfan
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| Posted: Tue Jul 16, 2019 10:16 am Post subject: |
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I don’t agree that Kawhi was overpaid or that he wouldn’t fit.
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lakersfan8
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| Posted: Tue Jul 16, 2019 10:19 am Post subject: |
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| wolfpaclaker wrote: | | Based on what anyone could evaluate an offseason on, without knowing the future and just going on the immediate past, I think it is hard for me to see anyone giving Lakers below B, or A.. |
I disagree. If you give an A, what grade are you gonna give if they did sign KL?
The AD trade was executed in New Orleans favour. Because they are not sure about the future, that’s why they shouldn’t put everything on KL signing with us. They should have kept more assets despite that would affect the max cap space or do the trade after KL commit. Do you think Clippers would give away those draft picks for Paul George if KL was not going to sign with them. |
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activeverb
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| Posted: Tue Jul 16, 2019 10:21 am Post subject: |
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| SGV-Laker fan wrote: | | C in my book. that AD trade was not due to our FO's effort, we had the best offer and N.O. took it. |
Based on this criteria, GMs wouldn't get credit for many trades. Trades get made because you figure out the best offer. My view is your judge a FO on the totality of their moves; if you start deciding some moves don''t count, you're just creating a self-fulling prophecy.
| SGV-Laker fan wrote: | | LeBron is closer to his farewell tour than starting another title push. |
This makes no sense. Lebron will be starting a title push this year. Who knows when he'll retired.
| SGV-Laker fan wrote: | | AD's pending free agency will cast cloud on this team throughout the season |
I doubt that. The expectation is that AD will resign. That could change, of course. But I don't expect "will he or won't he" to dominate the team drama this year as it did with Kawhi in Toronto.
| SGV-Laker fan wrote: | | Pelinka is composing rest of the team with 2-year contracts, but that's just like a semi-punt |
We've constructed a team that is designed to complete for a ring this year. I don't see why that's a "semi-punt." I am fine with the length of the deals, and wouldn't particularly have wanted to offer anyone a longer one. |
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yinoma2001
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| Posted: Tue Jul 16, 2019 10:22 am Post subject: |
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| lakersfan8 wrote: | | wolfpaclaker wrote: | | Based on what anyone could evaluate an offseason on, without knowing the future and just going on the immediate past, I think it is hard for me to see anyone giving Lakers below B, or A.. |
I disagree. If you give an A, what grade are you gonna give if they did sign KL?
The AD trade was executed in New Orleans favour. Because they are not sure about the future, that’s why they shouldn’t put everything on KL signing with us. They should have kept more assets despite that would affect the max cap space or do the trade after KL commit. Do you think Clippers would give away those draft picks for Paul George if KL was not going to sign with them. |
The Clips example is not an apt one b/c LBJ was already in place while the Clips would be bereft of an all star. We were trying to have 3 all stars.
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governator
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| Posted: Tue Jul 16, 2019 10:22 am Post subject: |
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| venturalakersfan wrote: | | activeverb wrote: | | venturalakersfan wrote: | | governator wrote: | | 2019 wrote: | | lakersfan8 wrote: | Overall Grade C
This front office gave away young talent to create cap space and ended up signing role players. I don’t know how can some people give them grade A. Trading for AD is not an achievement if they overpaid. |
Technically, it wasn't this front office. Magic we calling the shots then.
In reality, we could have had a roster where instead of Green, KCP, Boogie, etc we had some pieces of our youth left over. |
How would the $ match the AD salary for the trade now that we know Bullocks can't be used for S&T? Kuz makes too little, isn't still had to be Ball/BI +/- Hart or Kuz? |
That is why we shouldn’t give an A grade. The FO put us in a position where we had to trade every promising young player, not because we wanted to. Poor cap management. |
Salary considerations didn't require us to toss in all the young guys. That's what the Pelicans required to make the deal. If the Pelicans would have taken draft picks, we could absorbed AD into our cap space and kept the young guys, and given up on the botion of going after another max guy. |
Which I would have preferred but the FO planned differently. |
So you guys think that we shouldn't go for the Kawhi chance and despite NO requesting all those players, to hold strong and not trade for AD if we have to give up Ball-BI-Hart? NO prob would trade AD to another team if our offer is just one of Ball or BI |
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yinoma2001
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| Posted: Tue Jul 16, 2019 10:27 am Post subject: |
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Lakers seemed to have valued Kuz as much or more than BI/Lonzo/4th pick. Whether that's objectively true or not, the Lakers seem to feel that Kuz was worth keeping.
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lakersfan8
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| Posted: Tue Jul 16, 2019 10:32 am Post subject: |
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| yinoma2001 wrote: | | lakersfan8 wrote: | | wolfpaclaker wrote: | | Based on what anyone could evaluate an offseason on, without knowing the future and just going on the immediate past, I think it is hard for me to see anyone giving Lakers below B, or A.. |
I disagree. If you give an A, what grade are you gonna give if they did sign KL?
The AD trade was executed in New Orleans favour. Because they are not sure about the future, that’s why they shouldn’t put everything on KL signing with us. They should have kept more assets despite that would affect the max cap space or do the trade after KL commit. Do you think Clippers would give away those draft picks for Paul George if KL was not going to sign with them. |
The Clips example is not an apt one b/c LBJ was already in place while the Clips would be bereft of an all star. We were trying to have 3 all stars. |
How so? Both of the teams were trying to make a trade in order to appeal to the max player. The difference is one team only trade the asset after knowing it will be worth it, the other team was gambling. |
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lakersfan8
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| Posted: Tue Jul 16, 2019 10:36 am Post subject: |
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| yinoma2001 wrote: | | Lakers seemed to have valued Kuz as much or more than BI/Lonzo/4th pick. Whether that's objectively true or not, the Lakers seem to feel that Kuz was worth keeping. |
I think a major part of it is due to the salary |
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yinoma2001
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| Posted: Tue Jul 16, 2019 10:36 am Post subject: |
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| lakersfan8 wrote: | | yinoma2001 wrote: | | lakersfan8 wrote: | | wolfpaclaker wrote: | | Based on what anyone could evaluate an offseason on, without knowing the future and just going on the immediate past, I think it is hard for me to see anyone giving Lakers below B, or A.. |
I disagree. If you give an A, what grade are you gonna give if they did sign KL?
The AD trade was executed in New Orleans favour. Because they are not sure about the future, that’s why they shouldn’t put everything on KL signing with us. They should have kept more assets despite that would affect the max cap space or do the trade after KL commit. Do you think Clippers would give away those draft picks for Paul George if KL was not going to sign with them. |
The Clips example is not an apt one b/c LBJ was already in place while the Clips would be bereft of an all star. We were trying to have 3 all stars. |
How so? Both of the teams were trying to make a trade in order to appeal to the max player. The difference is one team only trade the asset after knowing it will be worth it, the other team was gambling. |
Again. Clips at the time had 0 all stars on the roster. They knew that if they didn't trade for PG, they may not get KL.
Lakers already had LBJ, and they were trading IMO to get AD so that would appeal to the 3rd all star (KL) to join. I don't think they had confidence that LBJ/KL would happen without AD. The end game was 3 all stars, and not 2. We just ended up with 2 b/c we didn't succeed.
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yinoma2001
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| Posted: Tue Jul 16, 2019 10:37 am Post subject: |
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| lakersfan8 wrote: | | yinoma2001 wrote: | | Lakers seemed to have valued Kuz as much or more than BI/Lonzo/4th pick. Whether that's objectively true or not, the Lakers seem to feel that Kuz was worth keeping. |
I think a major part of it is due to the salary |
That is true. But internally, they seem to value him tremendously. Sent him even to the lottery drawing.
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Super Mega Team
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| Posted: Tue Jul 16, 2019 10:50 am Post subject: |
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| yinoma2001 wrote: | | lakersfan8 wrote: | | yinoma2001 wrote: | | Lakers seemed to have valued Kuz as much or more than BI/Lonzo/4th pick. Whether that's objectively true or not, the Lakers seem to feel that Kuz was worth keeping. |
I think a major part of it is due to the salary |
That is true. But internally, they seem to value him tremendously. Sent him even to the lottery drawing. |
BI was out of position on the Lakers, he wasn't a great shooter, and had a health concern. As far as fit, we can debate whether we need another ISO scorer or someone who can play off our 2 superstars. He isn't a catch and shoot guy.
Lonzo misses too many games and was extremely slow at recovering. As good as he is on defense, he had major holes in his game and I'm not sure how hard of a worker he is and whether if his shot will ever get fixed. Lonzo struggles in the half court offense. He isn't your traditional pick and roll guard. While he has speed and athleticism, his handle is basic and he doesn't have the ability to finish at the rim. He lacks a 3 point shot, so defenders don't have to fight over screens, he doesn't have a pull up mid-range game, and he isn't a catch and shoot guy. He worked well at UCLA because they ran a lot of off ball sets. I'm not saying he doesn't have the ability to learn these skills but he was not that type of player in college, and I felt the way we ran our offense last year, he needed to have those skills. There's a big question out there on how much development he has made so far and I don't think the Lakers could afford to wait.
Both guys have a lot to prove and an opportunity to do so in New Orleans.
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activeverb
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| Posted: Tue Jul 16, 2019 10:52 am Post subject: |
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| lakersfan8 wrote: | | yinoma2001 wrote: | | lakersfan8 wrote: | | wolfpaclaker wrote: | | Based on what anyone could evaluate an offseason on, without knowing the future and just going on the immediate past, I think it is hard for me to see anyone giving Lakers below B, or A.. |
I disagree. If you give an A, what grade are you gonna give if they did sign KL?
The AD trade was executed in New Orleans favour. Because they are not sure about the future, that’s why they shouldn’t put everything on KL signing with us. They should have kept more assets despite that would affect the max cap space or do the trade after KL commit. Do you think Clippers would give away those draft picks for Paul George if KL was not going to sign with them. |
The Clips example is not an apt one b/c LBJ was already in place while the Clips would be bereft of an all star. We were trying to have 3 all stars. |
How so? Both of the teams were trying to make a trade in order to appeal to the max player. The difference is one team only trade the asset after knowing it will be worth it, the other team was gambling. |
I don't agree with your assumption. I think the primary reason we traded for AD was because we wanted AD and didn't want to wait a year for him. Even if they Lakers knew for sure they wouldn't get another max free agent, I think they'd still do the deal. |
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yinoma2001
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| Posted: Tue Jul 16, 2019 10:55 am Post subject: |
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| activeverb wrote: | | lakersfan8 wrote: | | yinoma2001 wrote: | | lakersfan8 wrote: | | wolfpaclaker wrote: | | Based on what anyone could evaluate an offseason on, without knowing the future and just going on the immediate past, I think it is hard for me to see anyone giving Lakers below B, or A.. |
I disagree. If you give an A, what grade are you gonna give if they did sign KL?
The AD trade was executed in New Orleans favour. Because they are not sure about the future, that’s why they shouldn’t put everything on KL signing with us. They should have kept more assets despite that would affect the max cap space or do the trade after KL commit. Do you think Clippers would give away those draft picks for Paul George if KL was not going to sign with them. |
The Clips example is not an apt one b/c LBJ was already in place while the Clips would be bereft of an all star. We were trying to have 3 all stars. |
How so? Both of the teams were trying to make a trade in order to appeal to the max player. The difference is one team only trade the asset after knowing it will be worth it, the other team was gambling. |
I don't agree with your assumption. I think the primary reason we traded for AD was because we wanted AD and didn't want to wait a year for him. Even if they Lakers knew for sure they wouldn't get another max free agent, I think they'd still do the deal. |
This is also true. But I think they thought that having LBJ/AD "in hand" would be more appealing to KL who I doubt would have wanted to be with just LBJ. Who knows. KL marches to the beat of his own drum.
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vanexelent
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| Posted: Tue Jul 16, 2019 10:57 am Post subject: |
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| AD alone is an A+. He'll be better than any young player we gave up. Glad we're finally in a "win now" mode, instead of "be patient" mode. |
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yinoma2001
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| Posted: Tue Jul 16, 2019 11:02 am Post subject: |
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| vanexelent wrote: | | AD alone is an A+. He'll be better than any young player we gave up. Glad we're finally in a "win now" mode, instead of "be patient" mode. |
I think people are going to be in for a pleasant (instead of rude) awakening. With LBJ directing the offense, I think AD may be close to scoring 30ppg with his usual rebounding and defense.
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