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| Would the Lakers have KL if Jerry was here instead of Clips? |
| Yes |
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48% |
[ 44 ] |
| No |
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51% |
[ 46 ] |
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| Total Votes : 90 |
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acer77
Star Player
Joined: 16 Jun 2017
Posts: 1037
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 Posted: Sat Jul 06, 2019 10:33 am Post subject: |
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I'll trust the insider who does this for a living and not random anonymous people on a forum who do it for fun.
The fact that Kawhi said he would only sign a long-term deal eliminated the Raptors cause the only scenario that had him returning to Toronto was a 1+1.
The fact that Kawhi didn't sign with Clippers until the trade for PG was finalized tells me it wasn't "Clippers or Bust."
The fact that Kawhi wanted to be a Laker last year tells me he would've had no qualms being a Laker this year either.
Woj is correct and you're wrong. That is all. |
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kikanga
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Joined: 15 Sep 2012
Posts: 29279
Location: La La Land
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| Posted: Sat Jul 06, 2019 11:15 am Post subject: |
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Nope. Kawhi was never gonna be LBJ's sidekick. Not to mention the Nike beef as well. But we'd have a big 3 right now with Jerry.
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safari_in_cali
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Joined: 06 Oct 2002
Posts: 1029
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| Posted: Sat Jul 06, 2019 12:36 pm Post subject: |
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| acer77 wrote: | I'll trust the insider who does this for a living and not random anonymous people on a forum who do it for fun.
The fact that Kawhi said he would only sign a long-term deal eliminated the Raptors cause the only scenario that had him returning to Toronto was a 1+1.
The fact that Kawhi didn't sign with Clippers until the trade for PG was finalized tells me it wasn't "Clippers or Bust."
The fact that Kawhi wanted to be a Laker last year tells me he would've had no qualms being a Laker this year either.
Woj is correct and you're wrong. That is all. |
Kawhi demanded a trade from San Antonio to the Lakers in June of 2018. That was BEFORE Lebron came to the Lakers as a free agent in July 2018. The fact of the matter is that this time Kawhi preferred to be on the Clippers with either injured KD or PG, instead of joining the Lakers and playing with Lebron and AD. If he had joined the Lakers, they would have been the instant title contenders with no other team being even close to them. But he didn't do it. What changed compared to last year? The only logical explanation is he didn't want to play with Lebron or deal with Klutch. I don't need to listed to insiders to conclude that. With all respect to Jerry West, Kawhi would not have joined the Lakers because he had no intention of doing so and only used them for leverage to force the Clippers to trade for PG, while stalling the Lakers and keeping them from signing other free agents. |
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LakerMindLA
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Joined: 26 Dec 2008
Posts: 5344
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| Posted: Sat Jul 06, 2019 12:44 pm Post subject: |
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I wonder if Kawhi would have joined the Lakers if the Raptors didn't win it all or got knocked earlier in the playoffs.
His legacy was changed by wining another championship as the alpha. He no longer is going to be defined by # of rings.
If he only had 1 instead of 2 and 1 finals MVP instead of 2, would he join a team that could help him get that 2nd instead? |
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yinoma2001
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Joined: 19 Jun 2010
Posts: 119487
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| Posted: Sat Jul 06, 2019 12:47 pm Post subject: |
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| LakerMindLA wrote: | I wonder if Kawhi would have joined the Lakers if the Raptors didn't win it all or got knocked earlier in the playoffs.
His legacy was changed by wining another championship as the alpha. He no longer is going to be defined by # of rings.
If he only had 1 instead of 2 and 1 finals MVP instead of 2, would he join a team that could help him get that 2nd instead? |
I think PG13 being a subservient and willing number 2 option Robin helped. With LBJ and AD we had too much alpha talent.
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LakerMindLA
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Joined: 26 Dec 2008
Posts: 5344
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| Posted: Sat Jul 06, 2019 1:03 pm Post subject: |
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| yinoma2001 wrote: | | LakerMindLA wrote: | I wonder if Kawhi would have joined the Lakers if the Raptors didn't win it all or got knocked earlier in the playoffs.
His legacy was changed by wining another championship as the alpha. He no longer is going to be defined by # of rings.
If he only had 1 instead of 2 and 1 finals MVP instead of 2, would he join a team that could help him get that 2nd instead? |
I think PG13 being a subservient and willing number 2 option Robin helped. With LBJ and AD we had too much alpha talent. |
Kawhi will get all the credit for winning with the LAC. If he wins with 3 different teams, he will go down in the history books.
That 2nd ring with the Raptors changed his story and motivations. |
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acer77
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Joined: 16 Jun 2017
Posts: 1037
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| Posted: Sat Jul 06, 2019 1:45 pm Post subject: |
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You guys act like Kawhi hatched this diabolical plan to screw over Lebron and the Lakers knowing he'd join the Clippers all along.
If that were the case, why would the Clippers trade 5 first round picks thus mortgaging their future if they truly believed they were his only destination? Because Jerry knew he wouldn't hesitate to join the Lakers if he doesn't get PG, that's why.
You guys are just angry and bitter and feeling like he played you guys which isn't the case at all. But then again I was probably the only one here who predicted he'd end up with the Clippers and even said they were the best option for him. So I guess I just don't feel the bitterness that you guys do.
Kawhi or not, Lakers are winning a Championship with Lebron and AD. Not gonna budge on that. |
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ducasse2
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Joined: 11 Nov 2017
Posts: 358
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| Posted: Sat Jul 06, 2019 1:54 pm Post subject: |
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| acer77 wrote: | You guys act like Kawhi hatched this diabolical plan to screw over Lebron and the Lakers knowing he'd join the Clippers all along.
If that were the case, why would the Clippers trade 5 first round picks thus mortgaging their future if they truly believed they were his only destination? Because Jerry knew he wouldn't hesitate to join the Lakers if he doesn't get PG, that's why. |
This.
And that the Clippers couldn't get a second star to sign with the cap space they had is an epic fail that cost the Clippers dearly. If they had done that KL signs up and they retain those five 1st round picks. Now that would have been a genius move. |
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safari_in_cali
Star Player
Joined: 06 Oct 2002
Posts: 1029
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| Posted: Sat Jul 06, 2019 2:07 pm Post subject: |
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| acer77 wrote: | You guys act like Kawhi hatched this diabolical plan to screw over Lebron and the Lakers knowing he'd join the Clippers all along.
If that were the case, why would the Clippers trade 5 first round picks thus mortgaging their future if they truly believed they were his only destination? Because Jerry knew he wouldn't hesitate to join the Lakers if he doesn't get PG, that's why.
You guys are just angry and bitter and feeling like he played you guys which isn't the case at all. But then again I was probably the only one here who predicted he'd end up with the Clippers and even said they were the best option for him. So I guess I just don't feel the bitterness that you guys do.
Kawhi or not, Lakers are winning a Championship with Lebron and AD. Not gonna budge on that. |
How is the Clippers a better option for Kawhi if his goal was to have the best chance of winning? The Clippers are not head and shoulders above the rest of the league. There are several teams now that can win it all, including Clippers, Lakers, Milwaukee and Golden State. The games will be a lot more competitive and I am actually looking forward to the rivalry with the Clippers. If Kawhi joined the Lakers, the championship trophy would have have been a lock pretty much. He obviously had other reasons for choosing the Clippers. And it was his right to do that. Now I can't wait for the season to start. Go Lakers! |
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lakersfan8
Star Player
Joined: 27 May 2014
Posts: 2993
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| Posted: Sat Jul 06, 2019 10:12 pm Post subject: |
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| Every team West goes, that team trends upward. I won’t give him all the credits but it would be silly to think this is just coincidence |
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TheBlackMamba
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Joined: 23 Apr 2007
Posts: 9057
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| Posted: Sat Jul 06, 2019 10:33 pm Post subject: |
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The only way we get Kawhi is we didn't get Lebron, whether Jerry West was here or not. And like it or not, no executive would ever say no to Lebron if he wanted to come like he did last summer.
If we had, I think we have Kawhi today, again whether Jerry West was here or not. And PG is with him, same trade for all our assets that we made with NO for AD, except re-routed to OKC.
As much good as Logo and the Clips did in working themselves into this position to pounce on the opportunity to get a superstar, it's about circumstance as much as anything, as these things often are. The narrative about how they changed the image and retooled the entire operation of the franchise is nice, but at the end of the day, the Raptors were a well-run organization, too. So was OKC.
The Clippers benefited from a hometown kid whose basketball powers are at their peak after just winning a championship and becoming a free agent this year of all years. They benefited from the completely unexpected fallout he had with the Spurs last year, and the fact that they refused to deal with us even though Kawhi specifically asked to be traded to the Lakers. And they benefited most of all from another superstar (Lebron) coming here after that trade demand and claiming the Laker spotlight first. You better believe they played up that (bleep) all year to Kawhi and his inner circle as they tampered away. |
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AshesToAshes
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Joined: 20 Jun 2009
Posts: 4837
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| Posted: Sat Jul 06, 2019 10:47 pm Post subject: |
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if we'd rather be the clippers than our squad right now than the problem isn't magic, west, KL... the problem is us.
KL is lauded as the best player the same way SA spurs are the "best franchise".
Neither are true. Long-time laker fans should understand why.
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Arbitrary
Star Player
Joined: 01 Feb 2009
Posts: 5788
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| Posted: Sat Jul 06, 2019 11:01 pm Post subject: |
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| acer77 wrote: | You guys act like Kawhi hatched this diabolical plan to screw over Lebron and the Lakers knowing he'd join the Clippers all along.
If that were the case, why would the Clippers trade 5 first round picks thus mortgaging their future if they truly believed they were his only destination? Because Jerry knew he wouldn't hesitate to join the Lakers if he doesn't get PG, that's why.
You guys are just angry and bitter and feeling like he played you guys which isn't the case at all. But then again I was probably the only one here who predicted he'd end up with the Clippers and even said they were the best option for him. So I guess I just don't feel the bitterness that you guys do.
Kawhi or not, Lakers are winning a Championship with Lebron and AD. Not gonna budge on that. |
It’s been reported that he’s had his sights on the Clippers early on. He also caused some inconveniences to the Lakers regarding his meeting with Jeanie and Rob while he took his Clippers meeting at Doc’s house. In the 2-hour meeting, he was mostly silent. He and his camp deliberately picked the owner and GM, but elected to not include the coach in it where it’s supposed to be more basketball-focused. He did this all while actively recruiting Paul George as evidence by meeting up with him as soon as his meeting with the Lakers ended.
He called on Durant to join him with the Clippers. Then called on Butler. Then called on Paul George. Later on, possibly during his meeting with the Raptors last Wednesday, he tells Masai Ujiri of the PG (and maybe Westbrook) plan. The Raptors were wary of this because they had a hunch that it was a leverage ploy. That’s why Ujiri relented in doing such trade.
That leaves out the Lakers with such knowledge.
What most people here understood is that he leveraged the Lakers (and to an extent, the Raptors) into waiting on him while giving the Clippers some time to get PG. He had all the power to send the Lakers and Raptors a courtesy call or message that he really wasn’t interested in either teams.
Do you know why the silence was really deliberate? Had the league known that PG was asking for a trade, they could have given Sam Presti a better deal. We’ll never know how all the talks between the Clippers and Thunder happened. A key point is probably convincing Presti that he wouldn’t get any offer close to what they are giving. The problem with Presti is that he was probably pressed for time, and he didn’t want to risk getting a lesser offer if he shopped PG around the league.
As always, there’s the ever-present Lakers “hate” (if you will), that may or may not be true, which precludes any deal happening in good faith. Remember, he was from San Antonio. The same organization that took the bitter pill of the Raptors offer to spite everyone else’s (most notably ours).
In short, I personally am not mad at Kawhi. However, I’ve lost a good amount of respect of him as to how he and his team handled his FA. It is within his right to look after himself and be selfish (and maybe downright devious) with his actions, but we can’t discount the fact that it was poorly coordinated. Leverage ploys exist throughout any NBA deal, but there’s an unwritten code that you deal in good faith. It’s almost as simple as basic good manners.
Yes, we got the bad end of a deal, but we also have a new amazing young superstar in Anthony Davis. Our roster seems solid enough, so I hope we stay healthy all throughout the next season.
If you ask me, I like our chances over theirs. |
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jguest8849
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Joined: 04 Mar 2019
Posts: 2
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| Posted: Sun Jul 07, 2019 4:53 pm Post subject: |
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| Arbitrary wrote: | | acer77 wrote: | You guys act like Kawhi hatched this diabolical plan to screw over Lebron and the Lakers knowing he'd join the Clippers all along.
If that were the case, why would the Clippers trade 5 first round picks thus mortgaging their future if they truly believed they were his only destination? Because Jerry knew he wouldn't hesitate to join the Lakers if he doesn't get PG, that's why.
You guys are just angry and bitter and feeling like he played you guys which isn't the case at all. But then again I was probably the only one here who predicted he'd end up with the Clippers and even said they were the best option for him. So I guess I just don't feel the bitterness that you guys do.
Kawhi or not, Lakers are winning a Championship with Lebron and AD. Not gonna budge on that. |
It’s been reported that he’s had his sights on the Clippers early on. He also caused some inconveniences to the Lakers regarding his meeting with Jeanie and Rob while he took his Clippers meeting at Doc’s house. In the 2-hour meeting, he was mostly silent. He and his camp deliberately picked the owner and GM, but elected to not include the coach in it where it’s supposed to be more basketball-focused. He did this all while actively recruiting Paul George as evidence by meeting up with him as soon as his meeting with the Lakers ended.
He called on Durant to join him with the Clippers. Then called on Butler. Then called on Paul George. Later on, possibly during his meeting with the Raptors last Wednesday, he tells Masai Ujiri of the PG (and maybe Westbrook) plan. The Raptors were wary of this because they had a hunch that it was a leverage ploy. That’s why Ujiri relented in doing such trade.
That leaves out the Lakers with such knowledge.
What most people here understood is that he leveraged the Lakers (and to an extent, the Raptors) into waiting on him while giving the Clippers some time to get PG. He had all the power to send the Lakers and Raptors a courtesy call or message that he really wasn’t interested in either teams.
Do you know why the silence was really deliberate? Had the league known that PG was asking for a trade, they could have given Sam Presti a better deal. We’ll never know how all the talks between the Clippers and Thunder happened. A key point is probably convincing Presti that he wouldn’t get any offer close to what they are giving. The problem with Presti is that he was probably pressed for time, and he didn’t want to risk getting a lesser offer if he shopped PG around the league.
As always, there’s the ever-present Lakers “hate” (if you will), that may or may not be true, which precludes any deal happening in good faith. Remember, he was from San Antonio. The same organization that took the bitter pill of the Raptors offer to spite everyone else’s (most notably ours).
In short, I personally am not mad at Kawhi. However, I’ve lost a good amount of respect of him as to how he and his team handled his FA. It is within his right to look after himself and be selfish (and maybe downright devious) with his actions, but we can’t discount the fact that it was poorly coordinated. Leverage ploys exist throughout any NBA deal, but there’s an unwritten code that you deal in good faith. It’s almost as simple as basic good manners.
Yes, we got the bad end of a deal, but we also have a new amazing young superstar in Anthony Davis. Our roster seems solid enough, so I hope we stay healthy all throughout the next season.
If you ask me, I like our chances over theirs. |
This |
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pjiddy
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Joined: 12 Dec 2005
Posts: 29056
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| Posted: Sun Jul 07, 2019 6:41 pm Post subject: |
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| Imagine if Jerry was consulting and Griffin was PBO |
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Al13
Star Player
Joined: 15 Jan 2006
Posts: 2336
Location: Berlin, Germany
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| Posted: Sun Jul 07, 2019 7:30 pm Post subject: |
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| Read the reports guys...it was the Clippers GM who negotiated with Sam Presti....Jerry West is an 81 year old consultant...he had nothing to do with this....maybe he said "get him he is good" |
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lar9149
Star Player
Joined: 10 Jul 2010
Posts: 2367
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| Posted: Sun Jul 07, 2019 8:01 pm Post subject: |
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| LakerLogic wrote: | | Kawhi wanted to be a Laker but it was not his top option to be on a superteam. If we just had AD, I think Kawhi would be a Laker. It is what is is. He played the Lakers but we shall see how this plays out. Kawhi/PG have more injury concerns than LBJ/AD imo. |
I am pretty much in the same opinion. I think Kawhi wanted to be a Lakers if it was just him and Lebron. Kawhi has a reputation of not joining super teams..this a guy who beat the "super" Miami Heat with Lebron..than beat the "super" Warriors.
The fact that he try to recruit Durant than maybe Butler, meant his intent was to go to the Clippers...but I think he wanted to maybe go to the Lakers if the Clippers couldn't add another star. This is probably why the decision got dragged on because there wasn't a certainty.
So I don't think Jerry West could have gotten Kawhi here..but he might have sensed that Kawhi intent was to go to the Clippers since he already asked Durant and Butler to come. Plus, I think Jerry West would have made it more quite with the media. (note how Kawhi going to the Clippers was hardly mentioned making everyone underestimate their odds). The trouble with all the media hype is it made it hard for the Lakers to back out even when there were reports like above of Kawhi recruiting to the Clippers.
Imagine for example if Rob gets Butler to come early in FA and than Kawhi signs to the Clippers with PG. Than the media would blame the FO for not giving Kawhi a chance and that perhaps Kawhi would have came to the Lakers if they shown more interest.
Dammed if you do, dammed if you don't. |
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LakerDynasty6.0
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Joined: 12 Jan 2009
Posts: 4655
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| Posted: Sun Jul 07, 2019 8:06 pm Post subject: |
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Next
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Starting Lakers Dynasty6.0! NOW!!
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....." each year in Lakerland is marked by four seasons: Kobe’s Mad at His Teammates; Kobe’s Shooting Too Much; Kobe Leads the Victory Parade; Kobe Receives His Championship Ring." |
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socalsp3
Star Player
Joined: 07 Jul 2016
Posts: 3502
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| Posted: Sun Jul 07, 2019 8:36 pm Post subject: |
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| Al13 wrote: | | Read the reports guys...it was the Clippers GM who negotiated with Sam Presti....Jerry West is an 81 year old consultant...he had nothing to do with this....maybe he said "get him he is good" |
How did they get assets to make the trade in the first place? Trading away cp3, BG, harris took guts and vision to get to where they are today. If Jerry west had nothing to contribute why did Balmer rehire him? |
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realking24
Star Player
Joined: 12 Dec 2012
Posts: 2203
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| Posted: Sun Jul 07, 2019 9:59 pm Post subject: |
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| At least he potentially could of tipped them off we’re KL and Balmer were at |
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lakeshowtacular
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Joined: 22 Jul 2010
Posts: 703
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| Posted: Mon Jul 08, 2019 12:11 am Post subject: |
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I voted no, he would have got us Klay Thompson!
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lakersfan8
Star Player
Joined: 27 May 2014
Posts: 2993
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| Posted: Mon Jul 08, 2019 1:04 am Post subject: |
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| lar9149 wrote: | | LakerLogic wrote: | | Kawhi wanted to be a Laker but it was not his top option to be on a superteam. If we just had AD, I think Kawhi would be a Laker. It is what is is. He played the Lakers but we shall see how this plays out. Kawhi/PG have more injury concerns than LBJ/AD imo. |
I am pretty much in the same opinion. I think Kawhi wanted to be a Lakers if it was just him and Lebron. Kawhi has a reputation of not joining super teams..this a guy who beat the "super" Miami Heat with Lebron..than beat the "super" Warriors.
The fact that he try to recruit Durant than maybe Butler, meant his intent was to go to the Clippers...but I think he wanted to maybe go to the Lakers if the Clippers couldn't add another star. This is probably why the decision got dragged on because there wasn't a certainty.
So I don't think Jerry West could have gotten Kawhi here..but he might have sensed that Kawhi intent was to go to the Clippers since he already asked Durant and Butler to come. Plus, I think Jerry West would have made it more quite with the media. (note how Kawhi going to the Clippers was hardly mentioned making everyone underestimate their odds). The trouble with all the media hype is it made it hard for the Lakers to back out even when there were reports like above of Kawhi recruiting to the Clippers.
Imagine for example if Rob gets Butler to come early in FA and than Kawhi signs to the Clippers with PG. Than the media would blame the FO for not giving Kawhi a chance and that perhaps Kawhi would have came to the Lakers if they shown more interest.
Dammed if you do, dammed if you don't. |
Let’s say in this way. If West was not on the Clippers, they might resign Reddick that summer and affect their cap space this summer. They might not acquire Lou Williams, Beverley and Harrell from Houston which become model role players for any team. They might decide to build around Blake Griffin. All of this happened after West arrived Clippers. I’m pretty sure they seeked West’s opinion on whether they should continue build around Griffin or make a change of direction and West’s advice lead them to where they are now. So yes if we have West, Clippers might not in a good position to acquire KL this summer.
On the other hand, if we have West, he might have sensed something fishy about KL’s indecisive. He might have the source to detect the rumbling in OKC. If we didn’t wait for KL, we could build a better lineup than the current Clippers. We might not get KL if we have West but we might still in a better position if we do |
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Nnamdi21
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Joined: 06 Mar 2009
Posts: 3715
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| Posted: Mon Jul 08, 2019 1:08 am Post subject: |
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| yeah Jerry West would have said no to Lebron to potentially sign Kawhi a year later while he sweated bullets and overpaid for a PG. sure |
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BigBallerBrand
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Joined: 23 Dec 2008
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Location: LA
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| Posted: Mon Jul 08, 2019 1:12 am Post subject: |
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The answer is yes only bc West would have shipped LeBron’s Ass out and then sign KL and another max FA. We would keep all our assets too
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Nnamdi21
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Joined: 06 Mar 2009
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| Posted: Mon Jul 08, 2019 1:16 am Post subject: |
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| BigBallerBrand wrote: | | The answer is yes only bc West would have shipped LeBron’s Ass out and then sign KL and another max FA. We would keep all our assets too |
Sure. but yet when he signed KL, he shipped more assets out ever (in the history of the nba) and signed a half assed maxed out FA. The myth continues that Jerry is god lol |
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