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CRoost
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 Posted: Sat Jul 06, 2019 7:25 pm Post subject: |
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Technically Clips gave up more but if you put things in perspective, PG was part of Kawhi package.
Lakers definitely took more risk. I’m high on BI and Zo but it’s AD so that’s all worth the risk. |
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DrDent
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| Posted: Sat Jul 06, 2019 7:56 pm Post subject: |
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| JZIANNE wrote: | | We gave up less for a better player in AD |
Just looking at the trade by itself I think clippers gave up more for a less player.
However putting it into context (they had to do it to get KL) I see why they did it - on a 50k foot level essentially same reason the lakers moved on AD (to be FA destination attractive)
I would go far as saying that if we don’t have AD we don’t have half the players we grabbed today. So, in a way, to make themselves appealing Lakers and Clippers did the same thing.
But objectively I believe the haul the clippers gave is superior to the Lakers. If they refused to offer that package for AD, then it’s pretty clear some desperation set in to get PG13. I’m not saying I wouldn’t have done the deal, but let’s say what it was : Clippers plan B or C. |
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UKUGA
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| Posted: Sun Jul 07, 2019 3:34 am Post subject: |
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| DrDent wrote: | | JZIANNE wrote: | | We gave up less for a better player in AD |
Just looking at the trade by itself I think clippers gave up more for a less player.
However putting it into context (they had to do it to get KL) I see why they did it - on a 50k foot level essentially same reason the lakers moved on AD (to be FA destination attractive)
I would go far as saying that if we don’t have AD we don’t have half the players we grabbed today. So, in a way, to make themselves appealing Lakers and Clippers did the same thing.
But objectively I believe the haul the clippers gave is superior to the Lakers. If they refused to offer that package for AD, then it’s pretty clear some desperation set in to get PG13. I’m not saying I wouldn’t have done the deal, but let’s say what it was : Clippers plan B or C. |
Good post.
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Fallout
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| Posted: Sun Jul 07, 2019 5:37 am Post subject: |
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AD is a franchise player. PG is not.
For those of you who keep harping its a rental with AD, seriously, he gave up supermax money to play here. He wants to be a Laker.
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NeeJee
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| Posted: Sun Jul 07, 2019 5:46 am Post subject: |
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| The anti-Lakers media bias is so blatant lol. Clippers gave up so many assets but are being touted in such a positive light. I think I'm done watching ESPN for the summer. |
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Steve
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| Posted: Sun Jul 07, 2019 6:03 am Post subject: |
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| UKUGA wrote: | | DrDent wrote: | | JZIANNE wrote: | | We gave up less for a better player in AD |
Just looking at the trade by itself I think clippers gave up more for a less player.
However putting it into context (they had to do it to get KL) I see why they did it - on a 50k foot level essentially same reason the lakers moved on AD (to be FA destination attractive)
I would go far as saying that if we don’t have AD we don’t have half the players we grabbed today. So, in a way, to make themselves appealing Lakers and Clippers did the same thing.
But objectively I believe the haul the clippers gave is superior to the Lakers. If they refused to offer that package for AD, then it’s pretty clear some desperation set in to get PG13. I’m not saying I wouldn’t have done the deal, but let’s say what it was : Clippers plan B or C. |
Good post. |
I think you need to reverse engineer this too. Does LeBron sign without a commitment the Lakers trade for AD or some equivalent? i think it reasonable to assume the AD trade got you LeBron too. |
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manlisten
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| Posted: Sun Jul 07, 2019 6:07 am Post subject: |
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I don't really jive with the idea that this was a trade for both Kawhi and PG. It was a trade for Paul George. I don't see anyone painting the AD trade as one for Davis, Cousins, Green etc. The Clippers sold their soul for what I believe is a 2 year championship window. After that Lou Williams will be 35 and a free agent, Beverly 33. Harrell is a free agent next season and will likely command a significant raise. It would take some real creativity to extend that window in the same year where they begin losing their draft picks. OKC has Presti at the helm and it's not at all far fetched to assume he will have the Thunder competing for the playoffs by then and those pick swaps will prove to be valuable. By the end of Kawhi and George's contracts the building will be on fire and the Clippers may be left with nothing but ash. I understand why they went all in as even just one championship or even Finals appearance would be monumental for that franchise but they paid the ultimate price and may possibly, hopefully, have nothing to show for it.
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HOF Rookie
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| Posted: Sun Jul 07, 2019 6:15 am Post subject: |
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| I think it’s pretty even but I think we gave up more. Maybe it’s brcause I like the promise of Ingram and ball, but really it comes down to the fact that if they don’t do this deal, #2 is wearing a different jersey today. |
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ringfinger
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| Posted: Sun Jul 07, 2019 6:20 am Post subject: |
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Clippers didn’t just give up those assets for PG.
It was also for Kawhi.
So it seems like an overpay when you look only at the transaction details, but in reality, the trade includes Kawhi Leonard. No trade for PG = no commitment from Kawhi. |
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Kobe193
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| Posted: Sun Jul 07, 2019 7:13 am Post subject: |
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| ringfinger wrote: | Clippers didn’t just give up those assets for PG.
It was also for Kawhi.
So it seems like an overpay when you look only at the transaction details, but in reality, the trade includes Kawhi Leonard. No trade for PG = no commitment from Kawhi. |
This exactly |
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lakersfan8
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| Posted: Sun Jul 07, 2019 9:11 am Post subject: |
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You can’t evaluate Clippers trade without taking KL into the equation. That’s the main reason why they made the trade. They were desperate and there’s no room to bargain from the Clippers side.
The value of draft picks depends on the number. Is it #1 or #21? All I know is we traded our #4, #2 (Ball) and #2 (Ingram). Unless you are sure the clippers draft pick would be at least three top 5 picks, I think we gave up more.
They are currently the best team in the league and they get themselves at least a two year championship window for sure. We gonna face the moment of truth decision next season from AD
We also take the bigger risk. Yes, Paul George might not be on the lineup when they convey their picks but last season they made the playoff without any star player. Their organisation have assembled a competent front office. Unless our owner decides to reach out, we are stuck with Rambis as our consultant. If Clippers lose Paul George and Lakers lose AD, which team do you think would have a better record? Which front office do you have more confident in building a more competitive squad? |
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trablos
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| Posted: Sun Jul 07, 2019 2:37 pm Post subject: |
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| ringfinger wrote: | Clippers didn’t just give up those assets for PG.
It was also for Kawhi.
So it seems like an overpay when you look only at the transaction details, but in reality, the trade includes Kawhi Leonard. No trade for PG = no commitment from Kawhi. |
You could say the same about us, we gave up the kids to pair two superstars together. We both had the same goal as an end result, pairing two stars as the core of your team. It's also very reasonable to say that if LBJ doesn't come, AD isn't even thinking about the Lakers and we are stuck maxing Dlo and Randle. |
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UKUGA
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| Posted: Sun Jul 07, 2019 5:18 pm Post subject: |
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Page 5 of this thread looks a lot like page 1 of this thread.
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UKUGA
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| Posted: Sun Jul 07, 2019 5:18 pm Post subject: |
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| Steve wrote: | | UKUGA wrote: | | DrDent wrote: | | JZIANNE wrote: | | We gave up less for a better player in AD |
Just looking at the trade by itself I think clippers gave up more for a less player.
However putting it into context (they had to do it to get KL) I see why they did it - on a 50k foot level essentially same reason the lakers moved on AD (to be FA destination attractive)
I would go far as saying that if we don’t have AD we don’t have half the players we grabbed today. So, in a way, to make themselves appealing Lakers and Clippers did the same thing.
But objectively I believe the haul the clippers gave is superior to the Lakers. If they refused to offer that package for AD, then it’s pretty clear some desperation set in to get PG13. I’m not saying I wouldn’t have done the deal, but let’s say what it was : Clippers plan B or C. |
Good post. |
I think you need to reverse engineer this too. Does LeBron sign without a commitment the Lakers trade for AD or some equivalent? i think it reasonable to assume the AD trade got you LeBron too. |
Fair point.
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DrDent
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| Posted: Sun Jul 07, 2019 5:19 pm Post subject: |
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| Steve wrote: | | UKUGA wrote: | | DrDent wrote: | | JZIANNE wrote: | | We gave up less for a better player in AD |
Just looking at the trade by itself I think clippers gave up more for a less player.
However putting it into context (they had to do it to get KL) I see why they did it - on a 50k foot level essentially same reason the lakers moved on AD (to be FA destination attractive)
I would go far as saying that if we don’t have AD we don’t have half the players we grabbed today. So, in a way, to make themselves appealing Lakers and Clippers did the same thing.
But objectively I believe the haul the clippers gave is superior to the Lakers. If they refused to offer that package for AD, then it’s pretty clear some desperation set in to get PG13. I’m not saying I wouldn’t have done the deal, but let’s say what it was : Clippers plan B or C. |
Good post. |
I think you need to reverse engineer this too. Does LeBron sign without a commitment the Lakers trade for AD or some equivalent? i think it reasonable to assume the AD trade got you LeBron too. |
Good point.
BTW, I'm really liking AD already. Not only is he a terrific player, he happens to a "big", which fits what typically the Lakers have won with (the talented big as one half of the equation). He also *wants* to be here, and the Lakers did not mess around, they grabbed him. Has a personality too. And did I say I'm buying more Ruffles lately.. |
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ringfinger
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| Posted: Sun Jul 07, 2019 6:32 pm Post subject: |
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| trablos wrote: | | ringfinger wrote: | Clippers didn’t just give up those assets for PG.
It was also for Kawhi.
So it seems like an overpay when you look only at the transaction details, but in reality, the trade includes Kawhi Leonard. No trade for PG = no commitment from Kawhi. |
You could say the same about us, we gave up the kids to pair two superstars together. We both had the same goal as an end result, pairing two stars as the core of your team. It's also very reasonable to say that if LBJ doesn't come, AD isn't even thinking about the Lakers and we are stuck maxing Dlo and Randle. |
The comparison isnt the goal of pairing two stars together.
It’s a comparison of the transactions.
Kawhi was directly tied to the transaction for PG. I mean he basically told the Clippers get PG and you get me. |
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24Legend007
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| Posted: Sun Jul 07, 2019 6:51 pm Post subject: |
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| DaGreat81 wrote: | | TheKobeFactor wrote: | Clippers made a better deal.
They did what they did because they have talent and depth to surround their 2 stars.
We traded everything for 1 player, to team him up with a 35 year old in decline, and no depth or supporting cast. |
tell me who is the clippers supporting cast? lol, Lou Williams? 6th man iso ball hog volume shooter? we traded him for a good reason |
Clips have no defense besides Kawhi, George, Beverly. All the hate for Cousins defense when Harrell is worse, Zubac is worse. Clipps have no interior defense but great perimeter defense. I think they will have to make a move by the deadline, as we may have to move on a perimeter player? |
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UKUGA
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| Posted: Mon Jul 08, 2019 3:17 am Post subject: |
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| ringfinger wrote: | | trablos wrote: | | ringfinger wrote: | Clippers didn’t just give up those assets for PG.
It was also for Kawhi.
So it seems like an overpay when you look only at the transaction details, but in reality, the trade includes Kawhi Leonard. No trade for PG = no commitment from Kawhi. |
You could say the same about us, we gave up the kids to pair two superstars together. We both had the same goal as an end result, pairing two stars as the core of your team. It's also very reasonable to say that if LBJ doesn't come, AD isn't even thinking about the Lakers and we are stuck maxing Dlo and Randle. |
The comparison isnt the goal of pairing two stars together.
It’s a comparison of the transactions.
Kawhi was directly tied to the transaction for PG. I mean he basically told the Clippers get PG and you get me. |
At the base, it is a comparison of the transaction, but posters are allowed to critically think their way to a deeper look, as many have done.
The thread has held together pretty well as many have noted that the Clippers, who were touted as having "2 max cap slots" heading into the summer, wound up over-paying for George to salvage their ability to sign KL.
They did what they needed to do, but it's FAR from what was envisioned at the start of the summer.
Imagine the Clippers sliding KL and Durant into cap space (maybe making some minor salary dumps), while keeping their talented roster from a year ago, along with all those picks.
They were not able to do that.
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troy
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| Posted: Mon Jul 08, 2019 5:30 am Post subject: |
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Clippers.
It's not so much what they gave up, but what they received. You have KL, who left a perfectly good situation and manipulated Paul G into leaving a team that he had just signed a contract for.
You now have two players on the same team who are manipulative and un-committive to their teams and their communities. There will be pressure playing on this Clippers team. Do Not Believe the Media. This Clippers team is not the favorites to win it all. They hate the Lakers and they want to instigate conflicts between the Clippers and the Lakers. It will be alot of presure for PG and KL to perform in Los Angeles, when the majority of its residents hate them. Also, you have two players who basically play the same position. I'm sure Doc Rivers will make it work, but for how long, and how will they do in the playoffs?
Also, injuries. PG is fragile, and KL needs to be medically monitored for his debilitating injury. Not sure if these two can last an entire season.
Lastly, how effective are these two players, really? PG has had Westbrook on his team, and yet they could never make it out of the 1st round. KL, yeah he's good, and he just won his 2nd ring, but examine this closer....1st ring, he had a solid and mature Spurs team doing alot of the work. 2nd ring, he had he fortunate luck of having a Warriors team with most of its stars hurt and unable to play. Yes, both PG and KL are excellent players, but are they dominating enough to take an over-acheiveing Clippers team to the finals?
Mostly, though, I don't trust the mentality and character of either of these guys. San Antonio tried to warn the NBA about Kawhi, and PG left Westbrook and a team he was proud to sign with (rem his documentary) just like that, just because someone told him to (PG is the ultimate follower). Long term, character issues and injuries will erode the Clippers from the inside. |
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UKUGA
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| Posted: Mon Jul 08, 2019 6:58 am Post subject: |
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| troy wrote: | Clippers.
It's not so much what they gave up, but what they received. You have KL, who left a perfectly good situation and manipulated Paul G into leaving a team that he had just signed a contract for.
You now have two players on the same team who are manipulative and un-committive to their teams and their communities. There will be pressure playing on this Clippers team. Do Not Believe the Media. This Clippers team is not the favorites to win it all. They hate the Lakers and they want to instigate conflicts between the Clippers and the Lakers. It will be alot of presure for PG and KL to perform in Los Angeles, when the majority of its residents hate them. Also, you have two players who basically play the same position. I'm sure Doc Rivers will make it work, but for how long, and how will they do in the playoffs?
Also, injuries. PG is fragile, and KL needs to be medically monitored for his debilitating injury. Not sure if these two can last an entire season.
Lastly, how effective are these two players, really? PG has had Westbrook on his team, and yet they could never make it out of the 1st round. KL, yeah he's good, and he just won his 2nd ring, but examine this closer....1st ring, he had a solid and mature Spurs team doing alot of the work. 2nd ring, he had he fortunate luck of having a Warriors team with most of its stars hurt and unable to play. Yes, both PG and KL are excellent players, but are they dominating enough to take an over-acheiveing Clippers team to the finals?
Mostly, though, I don't trust the mentality and character of either of these guys. San Antonio tried to warn the NBA about Kawhi, and PG left Westbrook and a team he was proud to sign with (rem his documentary) just like that, just because someone told him to (PG is the ultimate follower). Long term, character issues and injuries will erode the Clippers from the inside. |
Interesting take.
I'm not sold, at all, on PG, which is why it didn't break my heart to see the Clippers trade the farm to get him, even though it meant landing Kawhi.
Kawhi, OTOH, I think is really really great. But, the injuries are a concern.
He drug that team to the title, but will he recover?
Look at what just happened to the Warriors. That team broke down physically. Does that happen to Kawhi before he can lead the Clippers to a title?
I don't know, but it will be interesting to watch.
I'd be a lot more confident in the Clippers had they traded for Davis, or acquired Kyrie (or Durant even, despite missing the upcoming season), rather than trading talent + a slew of picks for George.
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Fallout
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| Posted: Mon Jul 08, 2019 7:41 am Post subject: |
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| troy wrote: | Clippers.
It's not so much what they gave up, but what they received. You have KL, who left a perfectly good situation and manipulated Paul G into leaving a team that he had just signed a contract for.
You now have two players on the same team who are manipulative and un-committive to their teams and their communities. There will be pressure playing on this Clippers team. Do Not Believe the Media. This Clippers team is not the favorites to win it all. They hate the Lakers and they want to instigate conflicts between the Clippers and the Lakers. It will be alot of presure for PG and KL to perform in Los Angeles, when the majority of its residents hate them. Also, you have two players who basically play the same position. I'm sure Doc Rivers will make it work, but for how long, and how will they do in the playoffs?
Also, injuries. PG is fragile, and KL needs to be medically monitored for his debilitating injury. Not sure if these two can last an entire season.
Lastly, how effective are these two players, really? PG has had Westbrook on his team, and yet they could never make it out of the 1st round. KL, yeah he's good, and he just won his 2nd ring, but examine this closer....1st ring, he had a solid and mature Spurs team doing alot of the work. 2nd ring, he had he fortunate luck of having a Warriors team with most of its stars hurt and unable to play. Yes, both PG and KL are excellent players, but are they dominating enough to take an over-acheiveing Clippers team to the finals?
Mostly, though, I don't trust the mentality and character of either of these guys. San Antonio tried to warn the NBA about Kawhi, and PG left Westbrook and a team he was proud to sign with (rem his documentary) just like that, just because someone told him to (PG is the ultimate follower). Long term, character issues and injuries will erode the Clippers from the inside. |
"You now have two players on the same team who are manipulative and un-committive to their teams and their communities."
Nailed it. Thats exactly how I feel. Outside of Clipper fans, I don't think they have much support or welcome outside of that. Once the honeymoon is over, Clippers will be a mess. Mark it.
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Karmaloop
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| Posted: Mon Jul 08, 2019 7:56 am Post subject: |
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The Clippers gave up more picks, the Lakers gave up more proven young assets. In terms of value, I think SGA has a bit more value than Lonzo Ball given that SGA is a year younger, but more importantly he's got an extra year of team control. In terms of value, I'd say Brandon Ingram and Josh Hart have more value than Danilo Gallinari, and fits what a rebuilding team would want. Gallinari was included to match salaries. So you're breaking down the picks.
'21 MIA FRP (Unprotected)
'22 LAC FRP (Unprotected)/'22 LAL FRP (Unprotected)
'23 MIA FRP (Lotto Protected)
'23 LAC FRP (Pick Swap)/'23 LAL FRP (Pick Swap)
'24 LAC FRP (Unprotected)/'24 FRP (Unprotected)
'25 LAC FRP (Pick Swap)
'26 LAC FRP (Unprotected)
That's overlaying "similar" draft picks. The Clippers gave up TWO future FRP from the Heat whose future looks mixed at best. Both teams gave up future unprotected FRP, although the Clippers gave up an extra one in 2026. So in all, the Clippers gave up 3 extra picks AND an extra pick swap. It's a risk for both teams, but the Lakers is tied to do what they do in 2 years with their potentially max FA cap space. The Clippers is tied to how PG13 and Kawhi age.
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Vancouver Fan
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| Posted: Mon Jul 08, 2019 7:58 am Post subject: |
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You know what's very telling? How Laker fans are so concerned about the Clippers.
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Karmaloop
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| Posted: Mon Jul 08, 2019 8:02 am Post subject: |
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| Vancouver Fan wrote: | | You know what's very telling? How Laker fans are so concerned about the Clippers. |
Are we going to sit here and pretend the Clippers aren't a real threat? We're on a message board, and it's the offseason.
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| kikanga wrote: | | I'm interested in Olivia Munn. But similar to this LAL/DROZ situation. I don't think the feelings are mutual. |
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LakerSD
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