| View previous topic :: View next topic |
| Author |
Message |
lakersken80
Retired Number
Joined: 12 Aug 2009
Posts: 38783
|
|
| Back to top |
|
 |
vanexelent
Retired Number
Joined: 17 May 2005
Posts: 30081
|
|
| Back to top |
|
|
cal1piggy
Star Player
Joined: 19 Jul 2017
Posts: 2584
|
 Posted: Wed Oct 30, 2019 1:10 pm Post subject: |
|
|
NCAA - the last vestige of slavery in the usa.
this law is the beginning of the end. the best kids will head to ca schools to get some pay. then the other states will have to follow.
met many university administration people in previous life. believe me, it could not happen to a nicer bunch 
Last edited by cal1piggy on Wed Oct 30, 2019 1:18 pm; edited 1 time in total |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
cal1piggy
Star Player
Joined: 19 Jul 2017
Posts: 2584
|
| Posted: Wed Oct 30, 2019 1:12 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| vanexelent wrote: | https://twitter.com/OTLonESPN/status/1189590704529596419
https://twitter.com/SenatorBurr/status/1189262863552208896
I wonder why these pro-Capitalist Republicans are so up in arms over athletes earning money in the free market. What would cause them to switch opinion for this specific instance? I wonder..... |
i think burr is a senator in north carolina
their university presidents must be complaining to all the congressional staffers |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
cal1piggy
Star Player
Joined: 19 Jul 2017
Posts: 2584
|
| Posted: Wed Oct 30, 2019 1:14 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| ringfinger wrote: | Lost in all of this is how this improves the ability for college athletes to get an education.
Do we even care? |
no. the kids dont and we dont. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Aeneas Hunter
Retired Number
Joined: 12 Jul 2005
Posts: 31763
|
| Posted: Wed Oct 30, 2019 1:23 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| vanexelent wrote: | https://twitter.com/OTLonESPN/status/1189590704529596419
https://twitter.com/SenatorBurr/status/1189262863552208896
I wonder why these pro-Capitalist Republicans are so up in arms over athletes earning money in the free market. What would cause them to switch opinion for this specific instance? I wonder..... |
Mitt makes a fair point. Burr is just pandering to people who . . . er, how should I put this outside of The Political Thread? . . . who think that NASCAR is a wholesome American sport for right thinking people. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
cal1piggy
Star Player
Joined: 19 Jul 2017
Posts: 2584
|
| Posted: Wed Oct 30, 2019 1:27 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| just took a look. ny and fla are introducing laws next. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
lakersken80
Retired Number
Joined: 12 Aug 2009
Posts: 38783
|
| Posted: Wed Oct 30, 2019 1:35 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| vanexelent wrote: | https://twitter.com/OTLonESPN/status/1189590704529596419
https://twitter.com/SenatorBurr/status/1189262863552208896
I wonder why these pro-Capitalist Republicans are so up in arms over athletes earning money in the free market. What would cause them to switch opinion for this specific instance? I wonder..... |
System was due for a correction, the concept of amateurism worked when they weren't signing these billion dollar tv deals. Since the NCAA and the schools started taking in big money, did they use their newfound income to reduce student tuition? Nope. Instead they used their new sources income to update their athletic facilities as one would expect them, but also some of these administrators started to rake in even more big bucks. So of course we would expect those people who benefit the most to keep the status quo. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
vanexelent
Retired Number
Joined: 17 May 2005
Posts: 30081
|
| Posted: Wed Oct 30, 2019 1:56 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| Aeneas Hunter wrote: | | vanexelent wrote: | https://twitter.com/OTLonESPN/status/1189590704529596419
https://twitter.com/SenatorBurr/status/1189262863552208896
I wonder why these pro-Capitalist Republicans are so up in arms over athletes earning money in the free market. What would cause them to switch opinion for this specific instance? I wonder..... |
Mitt makes a fair point. Burr is just pandering to people who . . . er, how should I put this outside of The Political Thread? . . . who think that NASCAR is a wholesome American sport for right thinking people. |
How is Mitt's point "fair"? He more than anyone knows that some people earn a crap ton of more money than others do. He thinks "we can't have some people driving Ferraris..." while he has an elevator for all his. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Aeneas Hunter
Retired Number
Joined: 12 Jul 2005
Posts: 31763
|
| Posted: Wed Oct 30, 2019 2:48 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| vanexelent wrote: | | Aeneas Hunter wrote: | | vanexelent wrote: | https://twitter.com/OTLonESPN/status/1189590704529596419
https://twitter.com/SenatorBurr/status/1189262863552208896
I wonder why these pro-Capitalist Republicans are so up in arms over athletes earning money in the free market. What would cause them to switch opinion for this specific instance? I wonder..... |
Mitt makes a fair point. Burr is just pandering to people who . . . er, how should I put this outside of The Political Thread? . . . who think that NASCAR is a wholesome American sport for right thinking people. |
How is Mitt's point "fair"? He more than anyone knows that some people earn a crap ton of more money than others do. He thinks "we can't have some people driving Ferraris..." while he has an elevator for all his. |
It’s the second part that is legit. We need a system that takes care of everyone. Image rights and the like are just the first step. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
cal1piggy
Star Player
Joined: 19 Jul 2017
Posts: 2584
|
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Aeneas Hunter
Retired Number
Joined: 12 Jul 2005
Posts: 31763
|
| Posted: Wed Oct 30, 2019 8:20 pm Post subject: |
|
|
That's probably a moot point now. The NCAA's constitutional argument was silly anyway. I'm not sure about the antitrust argument. My immediate reaction is that it's not a good argument, but applying antitrust law to sports leagues is tricky. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
adkindo
Retired Number
Joined: 16 Jun 2005
Posts: 40345
Location: Dirty South
|
| Posted: Thu Oct 31, 2019 5:26 am Post subject: |
|
|
| I think you guys are going to be very disappointed at the outcome from the NCAA. They even said that the California legislation will likely not fit within any new NCAA regulations. The NCAA jumped into this to slow the march towards legislation, but in the end will approve something that is very different than the California legislation. Then we will see if they can pacify CA enough to get them to pass new legislation or risk their schools eligibility. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
ringfinger
Retired Number
Joined: 08 Oct 2013
Posts: 29418
|
| Posted: Thu Oct 31, 2019 5:58 am Post subject: |
|
|
| cal1piggy wrote: | | ringfinger wrote: | Lost in all of this is how this improves the ability for college athletes to get an education.
Do we even care? |
no. the kids dont and we dont. |
Yeah. That’s why I am in favor of splitting off NCAA from colleges. Just have a sports league if that’s what we really want.
Would open up about a half million spots for students who actually want to study. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Aeneas Hunter
Retired Number
Joined: 12 Jul 2005
Posts: 31763
|
| Posted: Thu Oct 31, 2019 6:26 am Post subject: |
|
|
| adkindo wrote: | | I think you guys are going to be very disappointed at the outcome from the NCAA. They even said that the California legislation will likely not fit within any new NCAA regulations. The NCAA jumped into this to slow the march towards legislation, but in the end will approve something that is very different than the California legislation. Then we will see if they can pacify CA enough to get them to pass new legislation or risk their schools eligibility. |
They'll try that, sure. But the NCAA isn't running the show at this point. The California schools' eligibility is not at risk. The NCAA is worried about Congress, not California. This battle is over. It's just a negotiation over terms of surrender. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
governator
Retired Number
Joined: 28 Jan 2006
Posts: 25086
|
| Posted: Thu Oct 31, 2019 6:29 am Post subject: |
|
|
| ringfinger wrote: | | cal1piggy wrote: | | ringfinger wrote: | Lost in all of this is how this improves the ability for college athletes to get an education.
Do we even care? |
no. the kids dont and we dont. |
Yeah. That’s why I am in favor of splitting off NCAA from colleges. Just have a sports league if that’s what we really want.
Would open up about a half million spots for students who actually want to study. |
only the very top athlete who plans to go to NBA/NFL/MLB are not there for study, the rest do go for the degree, maybe we can revise the number from half a million to something more accurate (i don't have the specific) |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
ringfinger
Retired Number
Joined: 08 Oct 2013
Posts: 29418
|
| Posted: Thu Oct 31, 2019 6:32 am Post subject: |
|
|
| governator wrote: | | ringfinger wrote: | | cal1piggy wrote: | | ringfinger wrote: | Lost in all of this is how this improves the ability for college athletes to get an education.
Do we even care? |
no. the kids dont and we dont. |
Yeah. That’s why I am in favor of splitting off NCAA from colleges. Just have a sports league if that’s what we really want.
Would open up about a half million spots for students who actually want to study. |
only the very top athlete who plans to go to NBA/NFL/MLB are not there for study, the rest do go for the degree, maybe we can revise the number from half a million to something more accurate (i don't have the specific) |
Then split off those sports. If it’s not primarily about education, and we all know it, and acknowledge it, then why is it there? It becomes a competing interest. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Aeneas Hunter
Retired Number
Joined: 12 Jul 2005
Posts: 31763
|
| Posted: Thu Oct 31, 2019 7:04 am Post subject: |
|
|
| governator wrote: | | ringfinger wrote: | | cal1piggy wrote: | | ringfinger wrote: | Lost in all of this is how this improves the ability for college athletes to get an education.
Do we even care? |
no. the kids dont and we dont. |
Yeah. That’s why I am in favor of splitting off NCAA from colleges. Just have a sports league if that’s what we really want.
Would open up about a half million spots for students who actually want to study. |
only the very top athlete who plans to go to NBA/NFL/MLB are not there for study, the rest do go for the degree, maybe we can revise the number from half a million to something more accurate (i don't have the specific) |
It's really tempting to try to simplify these issues, but it doesn't really work. Splitting off the NCAA from colleges is like splitting someone off from his lungs. It doesn't make sense. If colleges wanted to create more spots for non-athletes, they could just do it. There are what, maybe 100-150 athletes in the football, basketball, and baseball programs at a particular school. How hard would it be for, say, UCLA to open up another 100 slots for non-athletes?
In reality, all of this stuff is interconnected. For all the talk about money, there are only a few schools that really turn a financial ledger profit on sports. Most schools lose money. But there are major off-the-ledger benefits, including recruiting of regular students, donations from alumni, and just general goodwill. This is why schools like Rice keep running sports programs. It isn't for the thrill of fielding the greatest 0-8 team of all time.
I found this article about Gonzaga to be enlightening:
https://www.espn.com/blog/collegebasketballnation/post/_/id/119205/how-the-basketball-program-helped-gonzaga-university-flourish
But this is true for a lot of schools, including the big state schools. Most of the SEC schools are academically weak. In fact, one of the reasons why adding Missouri and Texas A&M was a win for the SEC is that those schools have some sort of accreditation (I don't remember the name) that the majority of SEC schools cannot attain. Aside from the SEC, imagine a world without college sports and ask yourself whether you would even be aware that schools like Texas Tech, Washington State, and Miami existed.
So this is what I meant about splitting someone off from his lungs. Sports aren't just an optional feature for these schools. They are far more integral than people like to think. They aren't doing this as a favor for the kids. They are doing it to survive. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
adkindo
Retired Number
Joined: 16 Jun 2005
Posts: 40345
Location: Dirty South
|
| Posted: Thu Oct 31, 2019 7:47 am Post subject: |
|
|
| Aeneas Hunter wrote: | | adkindo wrote: | | I think you guys are going to be very disappointed at the outcome from the NCAA. They even said that the California legislation will likely not fit within any new NCAA regulations. The NCAA jumped into this to slow the march towards legislation, but in the end will approve something that is very different than the California legislation. Then we will see if they can pacify CA enough to get them to pass new legislation or risk their schools eligibility. |
They'll try that, sure. But the NCAA isn't running the show at this point. The California schools' eligibility is not at risk. The NCAA is worried about Congress, not California. This battle is over. It's just a negotiation over terms of surrender. |
You say this battle is over, but if it goes the way I expect, the NCAA will clearly be the winner. The battle over paying players will be squelched for a period and the NCAA schools will not be out a dollar. The vision of USC's QB having an agent and signing deals with Nike and Toyota is not where this will go....it will end with the players interest and rights being pooled and sold together with compensation being fairly flat with only minor defined differences such as class, honors, etc. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
vanexelent
Retired Number
Joined: 17 May 2005
Posts: 30081
|
| Posted: Thu Oct 31, 2019 7:57 am Post subject: |
|
|
| I hear many people citing "social influencers" as an example of how other college students earn an income, and that may be where this will start. I can see the more prominent talents having their own influencer network and giving exclusive content on their own channels and getting paid to appear on others, that don't fall under tv contracts with ESPN and the like. Then brands can just sponsor their content. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Aeneas Hunter
Retired Number
Joined: 12 Jul 2005
Posts: 31763
|
| Posted: Thu Oct 31, 2019 9:02 am Post subject: |
|
|
| adkindo wrote: | | You say this battle is over, but if it goes the way I expect, the NCAA will clearly be the winner. |
The NCAA has been losing for 35 years. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
cal1piggy
Star Player
Joined: 19 Jul 2017
Posts: 2584
|
| Posted: Thu Oct 31, 2019 10:26 am Post subject: |
|
|
| ringfinger wrote: | | cal1piggy wrote: | | ringfinger wrote: | Lost in all of this is how this improves the ability for college athletes to get an education.
Do we even care? |
no. the kids dont and we dont. |
Yeah. That’s why I am in favor of splitting off NCAA from colleges. Just have a sports league if that’s what we really want.
Would open up about a half million spots for students who actually want to study. |
i used to know some university administrators, and there is no way those boys would allow such a revenue source to escape without a huge fight. there is nothing non-profit about universities.
they and their lobbyists will try all types of ways to attack it. like what that nc senator did. they are too smart to attack it directly. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
cal1piggy
Star Player
Joined: 19 Jul 2017
Posts: 2584
|
| Posted: Thu Oct 31, 2019 10:30 am Post subject: |
|
|
| governator wrote: | | ringfinger wrote: | | cal1piggy wrote: | | ringfinger wrote: | Lost in all of this is how this improves the ability for college athletes to get an education.
Do we even care? |
no. the kids dont and we dont. |
Yeah. That’s why I am in favor of splitting off NCAA from colleges. Just have a sports league if that’s what we really want.
Would open up about a half million spots for students who actually want to study. |
only the very top athlete who plans to go to NBA/NFL/MLB are not there for study, the rest do go for the degree, maybe we can revise the number from half a million to something more accurate (i don't have the specific) |
yes, the ncaa justifies taking away money from the top kids that generate the value by saying the money is used for the average student athlete in college. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
cal1piggy
Star Player
Joined: 19 Jul 2017
Posts: 2584
|
| Posted: Thu Oct 31, 2019 10:33 am Post subject: |
|
|
| ringfinger wrote: | | governator wrote: | | ringfinger wrote: | | cal1piggy wrote: | | ringfinger wrote: | Lost in all of this is how this improves the ability for college athletes to get an education.
Do we even care? |
no. the kids dont and we dont. |
Yeah. That’s why I am in favor of splitting off NCAA from colleges. Just have a sports league if that’s what we really want.
Would open up about a half million spots for students who actually want to study. |
only the very top athlete who plans to go to NBA/NFL/MLB are not there for study, the rest do go for the degree, maybe we can revise the number from half a million to something more accurate (i don't have the specific) |
Then split off those sports. If it’s not primarily about education, and we all know it, and acknowledge it, then why is it there? It becomes a competing interest. |
the ncaa will use the excuse that the money from the few athletes are used to pay for all the athletic programs.
however, i think the CA law is the game changer. all the good athletes aiming for nfl/nba will now target CA schools. schools in other states have to compete and fla/ny are talking about changing their laws. think pa has a bill. it will soon snowball. too bad the CA law waits for 3 years. why not next year? |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Omar Little
Moderator
Joined: 02 May 2005
Posts: 90306
Location: Formerly Known As 24
|
| Posted: Thu Oct 31, 2019 11:23 am Post subject: |
|
|
The simple fact is that school sports have absolutely nothing to do with academics. They are a source of entertainment, revenue, and recruiting. As such, they are just an ancillary business of the school. The whole "student athlete" that can't be paid and doesn't get a share of revenue they generate was strictly for control, not academics.
_________________
“We must always take sides. Neutrality helps the oppressor, never the victim. Silence encourages the tormentor, never the tormented.” ― Elie Wiesel |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
|
