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epak
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 Posted: Mon Nov 18, 2019 9:20 am Post subject: |
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| LandsbergerRules wrote: | | epak wrote: | | LandsbergerRules wrote: |
It's been kind of predictable once Vogel and his staff were hired. Lots of good defensive minds but no offensive guru. And lo and behold, we are having a hard time getting good looks for AD and for our shooters from 3. |
Is that true?
I thought we were getting decent looks for shooters early on in the season. They seemed to just be missing. Re: looks for AD, you might be onto something. But it doesn't seem like it'll be a difficult fix |
"Lakers are 28th in the three-point rate and 25th in three-point shooting percentage...25th in free throw rate— this is like the bizarro Rockets: low threes, low free throws, elite defense."
https://www.msn.com/en-us/sports/nba/the-lakers-have-a-championship-blueprint-with-two-superstars-and-an-elite-defense/ar-BBWTVfq |
I get that their rate is low. But does that mean they're not getting good looks? Their 8th in eFG, so the looks they're getting overall are good. I'd have to look at how the team does on open 3pt attempts.
Prior to the year there was a Vogel interview where he ranked his values of shots: at the rim, 3s, FTs, 2s etc. I believe he had ATR first.
Hopefully we can raise our wide open 3PT attempts as the 3PT shooters improve their %s. |
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BobbyB
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| Posted: Mon Nov 18, 2019 10:10 am Post subject: |
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| ringfinger wrote: | | There’s also a political aspect to all of this. Is AD happy to not be as featured? I think we have to ensure we are doing whatever it takes to keep him happy. |
I honestly believe he is just happy to be winning..
To be honest, he hasn't played well enough offensively to demand more touches...
The offense which gives him the ball in the post and asks him to create his own shot has not looked good. Ive also noticed him forcing the issue on plays.
Last night he had some shots that I call momentum killers. Where we were on a run and he felt like he just needed to be a part of it, but jacks up a long 2 and it doesn't look good , there is no flow.
Davis needs to be involved more smoothly. where he is not asked to create all the time...
Pick and Pops, where he can shoot 3's and attack the basket from the perimeter...
Obviously he shouldn't be limited to that. But I think will get him more in the flow offensively. |
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venturalakersfan
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| Posted: Mon Nov 18, 2019 10:17 am Post subject: |
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| 55 wrote: | | I'm hoping he's not getting comfortable taking a backseat to Lebron on the offensive end. |
That is how Lebron ball works. AD isn’t an alpha, he won’t fight for control of the team.
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RIP mom. 11-21-1933 to 6-14-2023. |
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wolfpaclaker
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| Posted: Mon Nov 18, 2019 10:27 am Post subject: |
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AD is doing all right on post ups
0.96 PPP
68 percentile
Lebron is a monster on post ups
1.32 PPP
93 percentile
AD needs to make more of his easy shots in the paint and read the D better. Post ups aren’t his problem.
Spots up are at 0.90 PPP which is well below in the percentile in the league
Worst is the isolations out of the paint - 0.73 PPP very bad
So 1 on 1 in the post up good
1 on 1 outside very bad idea
Spot ups ok
Best is pick and rolls obviously |
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epak
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| Posted: Mon Nov 18, 2019 11:06 am Post subject: |
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| wolfpaclaker wrote: | AD is doing all right on post ups
0.96 PPP
68 percentile
Lebron is a monster on post ups
1.32 PPP
93 percentile
AD needs to make more of his easy shots in the paint and read the D better. Post ups aren’t his problem.
Spots up are at 0.90 PPP which is well below in the percentile in the league
Worst is the isolations out of the paint - 0.73 PPP very bad
So 1 on 1 in the post up good
1 on 1 outside very bad idea
Spot ups ok
Best is pick and rolls obviously |
Does it seem like they're avoiding putting him in screen situations right now due to the ribs/shoulder? |
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Runway8
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| Posted: Mon Nov 18, 2019 11:11 am Post subject: |
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| Looking back now, it really isn't a surprise. I remember it was puzzling to me how the Pelicans would go possession after possession without posting AD, it would be all Holiday for stretches.. Naturally this is going to happen even more when you upgrade from Holiday to Bron. |
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yinoma2001
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| Posted: Mon Nov 18, 2019 11:14 am Post subject: |
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1. AD still doesn't look 100% from the rib/shoulder injuries.
2. I do think he genuinely cares more about winning. He put up monster stats on the Pels, how far did that get him?
3. we aren't running the best sets to utilize him IMO. Straight iso post ups? Come on.
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ringfinger
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| Posted: Mon Nov 18, 2019 11:45 am Post subject: |
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| LandsbergerRules wrote: | | ringfinger wrote: | | There’s also a political aspect to all of this. Is AD happy to not be as featured? I think we have to ensure we are doing whatever it takes to keep him happy. |
I dunno. In interviews, he seemed pretty excited when Bron told him they'd run the offense through him. |
Well, I think that’s how most people would feel too.
Interesting, ADs usage rate isn’t too far off his NOP days last time I checked.
Whether he thinks that is good is different. |
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lakersboy
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| Posted: Mon Nov 18, 2019 11:50 am Post subject: |
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| People are suggesting the team isn't playing to his strengths on offense, but I'm still looking for a high percentage pet move or shot when defense doesn't let him get to the rim. Things like up and unders, floaters, runners, flips, scoops, hooks. If he's going to rely heavily on distant fall aways or outside shots, other players could do the same thing while he chases the rebounds. Just because he can make a shot outside, doesn't mean he's the best choice to shoot it. |
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drae
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| Posted: Mon Nov 18, 2019 12:10 pm Post subject: |
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| yinoma2001 wrote: | | 3. we aren't running the best sets to utilize him IMO. Straight iso post ups? Come on. |
Much of the offense still looks like it hasn't been installed. Vogel said it's on him to run more sets to get AD some shots but that hasn't been implemented yet.
Lebron can play off the cuff so it's not as important for him, but Vogel should definitely implement some AD sets soon  |
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Kava
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| Posted: Mon Nov 18, 2019 12:10 pm Post subject: |
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AD's defense is unbelievable. I agree with others here that think his shoulder isn't 100% and Lebron is knowingly taking more offensive load because of this.
Is LBJ even getting doubled consistently at the point? This is setting up perfectly for e/o season and playoff success for AD. |
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JUST-MING
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| Posted: Mon Nov 18, 2019 1:22 pm Post subject: |
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| LakerTom wrote: |
LAKERS 11-2 RECORD IS #1 IN LEAGUE.
Lakers 99.9 defensive rating is #1 in league.
Lakers 9.3 net rating is #1 in league.
Lakers 7.3 blocks per game is #1 in league.
Nov 17, 2019 • Reply • Retweet • Favorite |
MVP. DPOY.  . |
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SPO200
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| Posted: Mon Nov 18, 2019 1:26 pm Post subject: |
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| Rest him tomorrow. |
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818fan
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| Posted: Mon Nov 18, 2019 3:44 pm Post subject: |
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| Quote: | Harrison Faigen
@hmfaigen
Frank Vogel was talking about what the Lakers need to improve on, and he offered a critique of himself as well:
"I've got to continue to work on making things easier for Anthony. He's having to create on his own too much, and we need to get him the basketball more in movement." |
https://twitter.com/hmfaigen/status/1196559984902848515
Certainly think this would open up a AD's offense quite a bit. |
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epak
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| Posted: Mon Nov 18, 2019 3:46 pm Post subject: |
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| 818fan wrote: | | Quote: | Harrison Faigen
@hmfaigen
Frank Vogel was talking about what the Lakers need to improve on, and he offered a critique of himself as well:
"I've got to continue to work on making things easier for Anthony. He's having to create on his own too much, and we need to get him the basketball more in movement." |
https://twitter.com/hmfaigen/status/1196559984902848515
Certainly think this would open up a AD's offense quite a bit. |
This is what I like to hear from our coach! |
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drae
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| Posted: Mon Nov 18, 2019 3:50 pm Post subject: |
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Vogel on the ball  |
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55
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| Posted: Mon Nov 18, 2019 3:59 pm Post subject: |
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| venturalakersfan wrote: | | 55 wrote: | | I'm hoping he's not getting comfortable taking a backseat to Lebron on the offensive end. |
That is how Lebron ball works. AD isn’t an alpha, he won’t fight for control of the team. |
I don't think the blame should be on Lebron. He is carrying more than he should because AD isn't being assertive enough lately, as opposed to how he started off.
I'd like to believe Yinoma's perspective on this and hope it's just a temp thing due to his shoulder. |
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LandsbergerRules
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| Posted: Mon Nov 18, 2019 5:47 pm Post subject: |
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| 818fan wrote: | | Quote: | Harrison Faigen
@hmfaigen
Frank Vogel was talking about what the Lakers need to improve on, and he offered a critique of himself as well:
"I've got to continue to work on making things easier for Anthony. He's having to create on his own too much, and we need to get him the basketball more in movement." |
https://twitter.com/hmfaigen/status/1196559984902848515
Certainly think this would open up a AD's offense quite a bit. |
Man, I hope he can figure this out. Wish he had an offensive mind on staff to help him with this issue.
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-from Chick: His Unpublished Memoirs and the Memories of Those Who Knew Him |
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venturalakersfan
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| Posted: Mon Nov 18, 2019 6:28 pm Post subject: |
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| 55 wrote: | | venturalakersfan wrote: | | 55 wrote: | | I'm hoping he's not getting comfortable taking a backseat to Lebron on the offensive end. |
That is how Lebron ball works. AD isn’t an alpha, he won’t fight for control of the team. |
I don't think the blame should be on Lebron. He is carrying more than he should because AD isn't being assertive enough lately, as opposed to how he started off.
I'd like to believe Yinoma's perspective on this and hope it's just a temp thing due to his shoulder. |
I didn’t mean it to sound like I blamed Lebron, Lebron ball has won some rings. It just seems like AD isn’t as aggressive since he doesn’t have to be. He was like that at times with Jrue. Just as long as he keeps defending.
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RIP mom. 11-21-1933 to 6-14-2023. |
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cthroatgtr
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| Posted: Mon Nov 18, 2019 6:28 pm Post subject: |
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| Not worried about AD. For one the Kings doubled him all night long. Second he is a bit banged up. But compared to Ingram/Ball he is quite healthy now isn't he? |
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wolfpaclaker
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| Posted: Tue Nov 19, 2019 7:00 am Post subject: |
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| venturalakersfan wrote: | | 55 wrote: | | venturalakersfan wrote: | | 55 wrote: | | I'm hoping he's not getting comfortable taking a backseat to Lebron on the offensive end. |
That is how Lebron ball works. AD isn’t an alpha, he won’t fight for control of the team. |
I don't think the blame should be on Lebron. He is carrying more than he should because AD isn't being assertive enough lately, as opposed to how he started off.
I'd like to believe Yinoma's perspective on this and hope it's just a temp thing due to his shoulder. |
I didn’t mean it to sound like I blamed Lebron, Lebron ball has won some rings. It just seems like AD isn’t as aggressive since he doesn’t have to be. He was like that at times with Jrue. Just as long as he keeps defending. |
AD is a big man. All bigs need the ball delivered to them. However in this era, where bigs have guard skills, many of them go out and get the ball themselves as a guard. AD is capable of doing this. What you see him as not being aggressive, I see him as being too much of a guard. He is averaging 25 points a night, 18 shots a game. This is elite production, even with a jumpshot that has been very inconsistent. Sort of like Kobe, when Kobe would play through injuries and not look great on a game to game basis, you are seeing that with AD. There's clear evidence he is injured and he is playing through it.
What AD has to do is settle for less jumpers even though they are there for him. Teams leave him open for that jumper for a reason. Because they aren't afraid of his 3 ball or his jumpshot. They are afraid of him in post ups, and on the move towards the basket, or close to the rim. The moment he has the ball in those areas, teams begin to send 2-3 defenders his way. That is dominant impact by him, we are just not using him enough there. |
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danzag
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| Posted: Tue Nov 19, 2019 11:16 am Post subject: |
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Harrison Faigen
@hmfaigen
Anthony Davis said his shoulder is feeling better and that he's getting back to 100%.
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drae
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| Posted: Tue Nov 19, 2019 1:06 pm Post subject: |
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| danzag wrote: | Harrison Faigen
@hmfaigen
Anthony Davis said his shoulder is feeling better and that he's getting back to 100%.
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Get well soon, champ |
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Zillethai
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| Posted: Tue Nov 19, 2019 3:06 pm Post subject: |
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| BobbyB wrote: | | ringfinger wrote: | | There’s also a political aspect to all of this. Is AD happy to not be as featured? I think we have to ensure we are doing whatever it takes to keep him happy. |
I honestly believe he is just happy to be winning..
To be honest, he hasn't played well enough offensively to demand more touches...
The offense which gives him the ball in the post and asks him to create his own shot has not looked good. Ive also noticed him forcing the issue on plays.
Last night he had some shots that I call momentum killers. Where we were on a run and he felt like he just needed to be a part of it, but jacks up a long 2 and it doesn't look good , there is no flow.
Davis needs to be involved more smoothly. where he is not asked to create all the time...
Pick and Pops, where he can shoot 3's and attack the basket from the perimeter...
Obviously he shouldn't be limited to that. But I think will get him more in the flow offensively. |
I fail to understand why they don't just spam pick and rolls with Lebron and AD. Its virtually unstoppable |
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mhan00
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| Posted: Tue Nov 19, 2019 3:19 pm Post subject: |
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| Zillethai wrote: | | BobbyB wrote: | | ringfinger wrote: | | There’s also a political aspect to all of this. Is AD happy to not be as featured? I think we have to ensure we are doing whatever it takes to keep him happy. |
I honestly believe he is just happy to be winning..
To be honest, he hasn't played well enough offensively to demand more touches...
The offense which gives him the ball in the post and asks him to create his own shot has not looked good. Ive also noticed him forcing the issue on plays.
Last night he had some shots that I call momentum killers. Where we were on a run and he felt like he just needed to be a part of it, but jacks up a long 2 and it doesn't look good , there is no flow.
Davis needs to be involved more smoothly. where he is not asked to create all the time...
Pick and Pops, where he can shoot 3's and attack the basket from the perimeter...
Obviously he shouldn't be limited to that. But I think will get him more in the flow offensively. |
I fail to understand why they don't just spam pick and rolls with Lebron and AD. Its virtually unstoppable |
Well, they’ve done it quite a bit from what I’ve seen, and it’s not at all unstoppable. We’ve had some success with it where AD gets a free dunk, but it’s not some guaranteed score. The main issue is our shooters beyond Green and now Kuzma haven’t been reliable from three so the weak side defender can tag AD with no real worry. Lebron has thrown that skip pass a lot and we’ve gotten a lot of bricks from guys who have been great shooters elsewhere so far. Hopefully we start knocking those down more consistently and the floor opens up a bit. Teams have also been switching a lot on the pick and rolls and AD hasn’t done a consistent job of exploiting the matchup yet. He hasn’t looked to be that guy on offense yet, if he can get there that would be big since he’s by far the best defender on the team and in the league so far. |
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