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jodeke
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 Posted: Wed Jul 10, 2019 4:16 pm Post subject: |
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In soccer in America which gender has greater attendance at their games. Are the ticket prices same?
Are U.S. women’s soccer players really earning less than men?
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“The @USWNT is #1 in the world & contributes higher revenues for @USSoccer than the men’s team, but they’re still paid a fraction of what the men earn. Women deserve equal pay for equal (or better!) work in offices, factories, AND on the soccer field.” |
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ringfinger
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| Posted: Wed Jul 10, 2019 4:30 pm Post subject: |
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| jodeke wrote: | | In soccer in America which gender has greater attendance at their games. Are the ticket prices same? |
Well, I don’t have an answer for you on that, but I believe the primary driver if this discussion effectively boils down to a womens team winning the world cup being paid less than a mens team winning a world cup. |
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jodeke
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| Posted: Wed Jul 10, 2019 4:56 pm Post subject: |
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| ringfinger wrote: | | jodeke wrote: | | In soccer in America which gender has greater attendance at their games. Are the ticket prices same? |
Well, I don’t have an answer for you on that, but I believe the primary driver if this discussion effectively boils down to a womens team winning the world cup being paid less than a mens team winning a world cup. |
That is the argument. I'm narrowing to equality in American soccer. Do American men make more than American women in soccer?
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Be who you are and say what you feel because those who mind don't matter and those who matter don't mind.
America will never be destroyed from the outside. If we falter and lose our freedoms, it will be because we destroyed ourselves. |
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Aeneas Hunter
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| Posted: Wed Jul 10, 2019 5:02 pm Post subject: |
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| jodeke wrote: | In soccer in America which gender has greater attendance at their games. Are the ticket prices same?
Are U.S. women’s soccer players really earning less than men?
LINK
| Quote: |
“The @USWNT is #1 in the world & contributes higher revenues for @USSoccer than the men’s team, but they’re still paid a fraction of what the men earn. Women deserve equal pay for equal (or better!) work in offices, factories, AND on the soccer field.” |
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Just to be clear, that quote is from Elizabeth Warren, not the Washington Post. The WaPo article seems to be a pretty accurate statement of the facts. It's a more complicated question than what Warren suggests. |
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Aeneas Hunter
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| Posted: Wed Jul 10, 2019 5:26 pm Post subject: |
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| jodeke wrote: | | ringfinger wrote: | | jodeke wrote: | | In soccer in America which gender has greater attendance at their games. Are the ticket prices same? |
Well, I don’t have an answer for you on that, but I believe the primary driver if this discussion effectively boils down to a womens team winning the world cup being paid less than a mens team winning a world cup. |
That is the argument. I'm narrowing to equality in American soccer. Do American men make more than American women in soccer? |
First of all, let's be clear about what we're talking about. We're talking about national team players getting paid by the national federation. We aren't talking about clubs and the like.
Second, let's take the World Cup bonuses out of the equation for the moment. During the current cycle, the men got zero in World Cup bonuses because they did not qualify. If we include the World Cup bonuses, the USWNT will make more than the USMNT during this cycle, but that is misleading and (hopefully) an aberration.
With those qualifications, the answer is generally yes. However, many of the individual members of the USWNT make more than many of the individual members of the USMNT. This is because most of the players on the USWNT get a guaranteed salary, and the players on the USMNT only get bonuses that are paid when they make the squad for a particular game or set of games. A number of players did not make the Gold Cup squad due to injury or other circumstances -- John Brooks, Tyler Adams, Josh Sargent, Darlington Nagbe, and others. They got paid nothing at all. But a men's player who made every squad during the year would make more than a member of the USWNT.
This reflects the difference in the CBAs, and there is a logic behind it. Men will almost always make a lot more than women from their club teams. For the lesser known MLS players, the margin is not huge, but for some of the players the margin is enormous. The women negotiated for financial security. Otherwise, a woman who missed a year due to injury or just not getting selected for the squad would be in financial distress. |
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DaMuleRules
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| Posted: Wed Jul 10, 2019 5:40 pm Post subject: |
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| ringfinger wrote: |
I was debating some of the poor arguments such as “they do the same job”. That isn’t true at all and so it should not have much relevance in this topic. |
How do the USWNT and the USMNT not do the same job?
_________________
You thought God was an architect, now you know
He’s something like a pipe bomb ready to blow
And everything you built that’s all for show
goes up in flames
In 24 frames
Jason Isbell
Man, do those lyrics resonate right now |
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ringfinger
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| Posted: Wed Jul 10, 2019 6:11 pm Post subject: |
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| DaMuleRules wrote: | | ringfinger wrote: |
I was debating some of the poor arguments such as “they do the same job”. That isn’t true at all and so it should not have much relevance in this topic. |
How do the USWNT and the USMNT not do the same job? |
They are in the same industry. They don’t perform the same job. The women’s team doesn’t play the same teams as the men do.
And so the justification for equal pay must be based entirely on equal share of generated revenue. If a men’s world cup team gets X percent of World Cup revenue, the women’s world cup should get the same percent of their World Cup revenue. That would be IMO fair.
We can’t make the jump to say all athletes in a given sport do the same job and should thus be paid equally because if we do that, the best G-Leaguers would have to make the same as the best NBA players. |
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jodeke
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| Posted: Wed Jul 10, 2019 6:47 pm Post subject: |
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| Aeneas Hunter wrote: | | jodeke wrote: | | ringfinger wrote: | | jodeke wrote: | | In soccer in America which gender has greater attendance at their games. Are the ticket prices same? |
Well, I don’t have an answer for you on that, but I believe the primary driver if this discussion effectively boils down to a womens team winning the world cup being paid less than a mens team winning a world cup. |
That is the argument. I'm narrowing to equality in American soccer. Do American men make more than American women in soccer? |
First of all, let's be clear about what we're talking about. We're talking about national team players getting paid by the national federation. We aren't talking about clubs and the like.
Second, let's take the World Cup bonuses out of the equation for the moment. During the current cycle, the men got zero in World Cup bonuses because they did not qualify. If we include the World Cup bonuses, the USWNT will make more than the USMNT during this cycle, but that is misleading and (hopefully) an aberration.
With those qualifications, the answer is generally yes. However, many of the individual members of the USWNT make more than many of the individual members of the USMNT. This is because most of the players on the USWNT get a guaranteed salary, and the players on the USMNT only get bonuses that are paid when they make the squad for a particular game or set of games. A number of players did not make the Gold Cup squad due to injury or other circumstances -- John Brooks, Tyler Adams, Josh Sargent, Darlington Nagbe, and others. They got paid nothing at all. But a men's player who made every squad during the year would make more than a member of the USWNT.
This reflects the difference in the CBAs, and there is a logic behind it. Men will almost always make a lot more than women from their club teams. For the lesser known MLS players, the margin is not huge, but for some of the players the margin is enormous. The women negotiated for financial security. Otherwise, a woman who missed a year due to injury or just not getting selected for the squad would be in financial distress. |
I know AH. I kinda went off the rails. You seem to be versed on the game and it's workings. Only time I watch soccer is when my Belizean friends come over. Not knowing the rules makes watching difficult. I'm still trying to get with off sides.
_________________
Be who you are and say what you feel because those who mind don't matter and those who matter don't mind.
America will never be destroyed from the outside. If we falter and lose our freedoms, it will be because we destroyed ourselves. |
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DaMuleRules
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| Posted: Wed Jul 10, 2019 7:02 pm Post subject: |
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| ringfinger wrote: | | DaMuleRules wrote: | | ringfinger wrote: |
I was debating some of the poor arguments such as “they do the same job”. That isn’t true at all and so it should not have much relevance in this topic. |
How do the USWNT and the USMNT not do the same job? |
They are in the same industry. They don’t perform the same job. |
They play the same sport. They practice just like the men's team does. They travel just like the men's team. They play on the international stage just like the men's team does. They put in the same type of commitment that the men's team does. They no doubt generate revenue, and in some revenue streams, they out-perform the men's team. And here's the kicker - in reagrds to actually delivering the whole goal (no pun intended) on the field - WINNING - they blow the men's team away.
THEY DO THE SAME (bleep) JOB! To claim otherwise is utterly ridiculous.
| Quote: | | The women’s team doesn’t play the same teams as the men do. |
 They play essentially the same countries based on the same parameters - the teams that qualify for their respective tournaments. The men's team doesn't do anything that women's team doesn't . . . well except lose.
| Quote: | | And so the justification for equal pay must be based entirely on equal share of generated revenue. If a men’s world cup team gets X percent of World Cup revenue, the women’s world cup should get the same percent of their World Cup revenue. That would be IMO fair. |
Both teams generate revenue for the the USSF. That money goes into the same USSF pool of funds. The difference in how those funds come in is based on systematic issues far beyond the USSF's control and definitely out of the women's team control. But outside of that, the women's team generates a whole elevated level of publicity and promotion for the USSF that the men don't by virtue of the fact that they women actually succeed in winning. And when they don't win it all, they actually place rather than fail to qualify.
The bottom line is quite simple and obvious. Just because the overall system favors the men's teams inherently doesn't mean the women should be punished because of that systematic bias. This whole, "Well, the system is designed so that the men are featured and provided a bigger financial field, so they deserve a bigger portion of the revenue that comes into the the USSF even though they consistently lose while women consistently win" is ridiculous and proves the flaw in the whole construct.
| Quote: | | We can’t make the jump to say all athletes in a given sport do the same job and should thus be paid equally because if we do that, the best G-Leaguers would have to make the same as the best NBA players. |
Now we're back to the same flawed logic that lead you to compare cornhole players to Wimbledon champions. The difference between the USWNT and the USMNT is not the same as G-Leaguers to NBA All-Stars. The USWMNT are on the same level of their field as the USMNT are - they aren't the scrubs of women's soccer. NBA teams in small market don't have different pay scales than NBA teams in the handful of major market's. They paid on-par with their peers.
When we speak of the US Olympic team, we speak of the whole team as a genderless unit. They represent the same group. The same way that the US men and women in soccer represent the USSF. It's not a G-League to an All NBA team. The men and women are both in that group at the top of their field.
And then we get down to the one difference that should really take precedent over anything, the result that the whole thing rest on - WINNING.
_________________
You thought God was an architect, now you know
He’s something like a pipe bomb ready to blow
And everything you built that’s all for show
goes up in flames
In 24 frames
Jason Isbell
Man, do those lyrics resonate right now |
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Aeneas Hunter
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| Posted: Wed Jul 10, 2019 7:06 pm Post subject: |
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| jodeke wrote: | | I know AH. I kinda went off the rails. You seem to be versed on the game and it's workings. Only time I watch soccer is when my Belizean friends come over. Not knowing the rules makes watching difficult. I'm still trying to get with off sides. |
The offside rule is simple. Here is FIFA's guide to understanding this amazing clear and easy to apply rule:
https://www.fifa.com/mm/document/afdeveloping/refereeing/law_11_offside_en_47383.pdf |
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DaMuleRules
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| Posted: Wed Jul 10, 2019 7:15 pm Post subject: |
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| Aeneas Hunter wrote: | | jodeke wrote: | | I know AH. I kinda went off the rails. You seem to be versed on the game and it's workings. Only time I watch soccer is when my Belizean friends come over. Not knowing the rules makes watching difficult. I'm still trying to get with off sides. |
The offside rule is simple. Here is FIFA's guide to understanding this amazing clear and easy to apply rule:
https://www.fifa.com/mm/document/afdeveloping/refereeing/law_11_offside_en_47383.pdf |
Yeah, offsides in soccer is one of the easiest and direct rules in sports. It's funny that people can understand the concept of balls versus strikes in baseball and do so to the extent that they will argue the accuracy of call on a pitch on something that is frustratingly subjective in how it is applied - yet offsides is confounding to some.
As a side note, it is interesting that the explanation linked over explains it and makes it sound more complicated than it is. It's also interesting that FIFA uses "his" when the genderless "the" works just as effectively .  
_________________
You thought God was an architect, now you know
He’s something like a pipe bomb ready to blow
And everything you built that’s all for show
goes up in flames
In 24 frames
Jason Isbell
Man, do those lyrics resonate right now |
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ringfinger
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| Posted: Wed Jul 10, 2019 8:00 pm Post subject: |
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| DaMuleRules wrote: | | ringfinger wrote: | | DaMuleRules wrote: | | ringfinger wrote: |
I was debating some of the poor arguments such as “they do the same job”. That isn’t true at all and so it should not have much relevance in this topic. |
How do the USWNT and the USMNT not do the same job? |
They are in the same industry. They don’t perform the same job. |
They play the same sport. They practice just like the men's team does. They travel just like the men's team. They play on the international stage just like the men's team does. They put in the same type of commitment that the men's team does. They no doubt generate revenue, and in some revenue streams, they out-perform the men's team. And here's the kicker - in reagrds to actually delivering the whole goal (no pun intended) on the field - WINNING - they blow the men's team away.
THEY DO THE SAME (bleep) JOB! To claim otherwise is utterly ridiculous.
| Quote: | | The women’s team doesn’t play the same teams as the men do. |
They play essentially the same countries based on the same parameters - the teams that qualify for their respective tournaments. The men's team doesn't do anything that women's team doesn't . . . well except lose.
| Quote: | | And so the justification for equal pay must be based entirely on equal share of generated revenue. If a men’s world cup team gets X percent of World Cup revenue, the women’s world cup should get the same percent of their World Cup revenue. That would be IMO fair. |
Both teams generate revenue for the the USSF. That money goes into the same USSF pool of funds. The difference in how those funds come in is based on systematic issues far beyond the USSF's control and definitely out of the women's team control. But outside of that, the women's team generates a whole elevated level of publicity and promotion for the USSF that the men don't by virtue of the fact that they women actually succeed in winning. And when they don't win it all, they actually place rather than fail to qualify.
The bottom line is quite simple and obvious. Just because the overall system favors the men's teams inherently doesn't mean the women should be punished because of that systematic bias. This whole, "Well, the system is designed so that the men are featured and provided a bigger financial field, so they deserve a bigger portion of the revenue that comes into the the USSF even though they consistently lose while women consistently win" is ridiculous and proves the flaw in the whole construct.
| Quote: | | We can’t make the jump to say all athletes in a given sport do the same job and should thus be paid equally because if we do that, the best G-Leaguers would have to make the same as the best NBA players. |
Now we're back to the same flawed logic that lead you to compare cornhole players to Wimbledon champions. The difference between the USWNT and the USMNT is not the same as G-Leaguers to NBA All-Stars. The USWMNT are on the same level of their field as the USMNT are - they aren't the scrubs of women's soccer. NBA teams in small market don't have different pay scales than NBA teams in the handful of major market's. They paid on-par with their peers.
When we speak of the US Olympic team, we speak of the whole team as a genderless unit. They represent the same group. The same way that the US men and women in soccer represent the USSF. It's not a G-League to an All NBA team. The men and women are both in that group at the top of their field.
And then we get down to the one difference that should really take precedent over anything, the result that the whole thing rest on - WINNING. |
We speak of the USWNT (as you quoted), the US Women's National Team, as a genderless unit? You just referred to them, by gender, and yet claim, they are genderless? They aren't genderless at all. They don't compete against each other and they are actually separated BY gender in competition.
Why is it that we can't just agree that the women's team and the men's team should receive a comparable amount of their respective program's revenues? And then leave it there?
Why do we then have to take that step of making it seem like the men and women are interchangeable and genderless? Is it for woke points? Why do leftists always do that? "Lakers rule" "Yes they do" "And my farts smell great" "Umm I don't agree with that" "Laker hater".
And winning is irrelevant. Knicks players might always lose, but they still generate a lot more revenue than the winningest WNBA team. That's not based on sexism, it's just math. |
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adkindo
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Location: Dirty South
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| Posted: Wed Jul 10, 2019 8:47 pm Post subject: |
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| jodeke wrote: | In soccer in America which gender has greater attendance at their games. Are the ticket prices same?
Are U.S. women’s soccer players really earning less than men?
LINK
| Quote: |
“The @USWNT is #1 in the world & contributes higher revenues for @USSoccer than the men’s team, but they’re still paid a fraction of what the men earn. Women deserve equal pay for equal (or better!) work in offices, factories, AND on the soccer field.” |
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A little misleading....dropping in that quote without sourcing it to Elizabeth Warren?
| Quote: | | “The male players are paid when they play, but not when they sit,” McCann said. “USMNT players must thus be on the roster to be pay eligible. USWNT players, in contrast, are guaranteed pay.” |
I assume the women are also willing to forgo their guaranteed pay since the males do not have guaranteed pay? |
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ribeye
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| Posted: Wed Jul 10, 2019 8:51 pm Post subject: |
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| DaMuleRules wrote: | | Aeneas Hunter wrote: | | jodeke wrote: | | I know AH. I kinda went off the rails. You seem to be versed on the game and it's workings. Only time I watch soccer is when my Belizean friends come over. Not knowing the rules makes watching difficult. I'm still trying to get with off sides. |
The offside rule is simple. Here is FIFA's guide to understanding this amazing clear and easy to apply rule:
https://www.fifa.com/mm/document/afdeveloping/refereeing/law_11_offside_en_47383.pdf |
Yeah, offsides in soccer is one of the easiest and direct rules in sports. It's funny that people can understand the concept of balls versus strikes in baseball and do so to the extent that they will argue the accuracy of call on a pitch on something that is frustratingly subjective in how it is applied - yet offsides is confounding to some.
As a side note, it is interesting that the explanation linked over explains it and makes it sound more complicated than it is. It's also interesting that FIFA uses "his" when the genderless "the" works just as effectively . |
The general concept of being in an offsides position is, as you say, pretty straight forward, but the bit about it also affecting or interfering with the play or gaining an advantage, as well, can get confusing (trust me, I've seen it confuse parents often) and even contentious as was seen in this last world cup. Some people don't realize that even if one is in the offsides position and never touches the ball, the flag could be raised if that player's team gained an advantage by it. Also, when the ball is in deep with many players making runs and moving about trying to gain position or block position, and the ball is exchanging possession frequently, offsides can be really tricky to catch or officiate.
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adkindo
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| Posted: Wed Jul 10, 2019 9:01 pm Post subject: |
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Also, I find this quote interesting.
| Quote: | | Jeffery Kessler, the female players’ attorney, said via email: “The USSF has an obligation under US law to provide equal pay regardless of how FIFA discriminates. The discrimination against the women occurs in both Non- World Cup games and World Cup games.” |
Correct me if I am wrong, but the attorney is suggesting that FIFA "discriminates" against females because overall revenue related to Men's FIFA events are much larger than Women's FIFA events....and the US has an obligation to correct that on this end by taking FIFA distributions from the Men's events, and give it to the Women's team?
The "fact checker" piece seems to lean heavy to one side by focusing on areas like the women's success and ticket sales....but only mentioning the massive difference in revenue generated for mens events compared to female events. Doesn't much of it come down to this....
| Quote: | | Total prize money for the Women’s World Cup in 2019 is $30 million — the champions will walk away with about $4 million. For contrast, in the 2018 Men’s World Cup, the champions won $38 million from a total pool of about $400 million. |
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Gatekeeper
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| Posted: Wed Jul 10, 2019 9:06 pm Post subject: |
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How are we framing the argument for equal pay? Comparing them to the USMNT or the rest of the world? Let's take the former for less complexity:
| WAPO wrote: | The teams play different numbers of games each year and earn different bonuses depending on the game type, their opponents’ FIFA rank and the game’s outcome. On top of that, both teams can earn additional bonuses for winning specific tournaments. And certain events, such as the World Cup, have a separate bonus structure entirely.
“The male players are paid when they play, but not when they sit,” McCann said. “USMNT players must thus be on the roster to be pay eligible. USWNT players, in contrast, are guaranteed pay.”
The lawsuit from the women’s team sketched out the following scenario: If both teams played 20 friendlies in a year, a top-tier women’s national team player would earn $164,320 less, or “38% of the compensation of a similarly situated MNT player.” That was true under the previous collective-bargaining agreement that ended in December 2016.
The Fact Checker obtained the new agreement, which took effect in April 2017. Using the same 20-game scenario, we calculated the player on the women’s team would earn $28,333 less, or about 89 percent of the compensation of a similarly situated men’s team player. If both teams lost all 20 games, the players would make the same amount. That’s because the men earn a $5,000 bonus when they lose and the women have a $100,000 base salary.
USWNT players have previously said publicly they believed this was the best agreement they could get without going on strike. McCann said: “The players’ unions negotiated these systems. This type of argument thus implicitly directs USWNT players to blame their own union for negotiating a system that pays them in ways they find unacceptable.”
Under the women’s new bargaining agreement, the players can also earn attendance bonuses, payment for commercial appearances and per diems that are equal and tied to what the men can earn.
When it comes to revenue from games, the women’s national soccer team has held its own against the men’s team since the 2015 World Cup win. But games account for only one-quarter of USSF revenue. Sponsorships make up half, and it’s hard to determine what the women’s team contributed to USSF without more data.
Are the women players paid less? Sometimes. When the female players have appeared to make about the same or more money, they’ve had to turn in consistently outstanding performances on the world stage. Even with those feats, earning the same amount as the men’s soccer players was near-impossible under the previous collective-bargaining agreement.
The new agreement has provisions that may reduce the difference in bonuses for friendly games and tournaments, but there is — without question and for whatever reasons — still a massive gap between men’s and women’s World Cup bonuses. |
Seems to me like the issue is in the CBA and how compensation is structured rather than a gender issue.
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ChefLinda
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| Posted: Thu Jul 11, 2019 3:54 am Post subject: |
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| The structure was created in a culture heavily influenced by gender bias. So the pay disparity derives from both structural issues and gender bias. |
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Aeneas Hunter
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| Posted: Thu Jul 11, 2019 5:37 am Post subject: |
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| ribeye wrote: | | DaMuleRules wrote: | | Aeneas Hunter wrote: | | jodeke wrote: | | I know AH. I kinda went off the rails. You seem to be versed on the game and it's workings. Only time I watch soccer is when my Belizean friends come over. Not knowing the rules makes watching difficult. I'm still trying to get with off sides. |
The offside rule is simple. Here is FIFA's guide to understanding this amazing clear and easy to apply rule:
https://www.fifa.com/mm/document/afdeveloping/refereeing/law_11_offside_en_47383.pdf |
Yeah, offsides in soccer is one of the easiest and direct rules in sports. It's funny that people can understand the concept of balls versus strikes in baseball and do so to the extent that they will argue the accuracy of call on a pitch on something that is frustratingly subjective in how it is applied - yet offsides is confounding to some.
As a side note, it is interesting that the explanation linked over explains it and makes it sound more complicated than it is. It's also interesting that FIFA uses "his" when the genderless "the" works just as effectively . |
The general concept of being in an offsides position is, as you say, pretty straight forward, but the bit about it also affecting or interfering with the play or gaining an advantage, as well, can get confusing (trust me, I've seen it confuse parents often) and even contentious as was seen in this last world cup. Some people don't realize that even if one is in the offsides position and never touches the ball, the flag could be raised if that player's team gained an advantage by it. Also, when the ball is in deep with many players making runs and moving about trying to gain position or block position, and the ball is exchanging possession frequently, offsides can be really tricky to catch or officiate. |
If it wasn't obvious, I was being facetious. You don't need a 38 page guide to explain a simple and straightforward rule. My favorite bit in the guide is the discussion about what happens if an attacking player is inside the goal when one of his teammates plays the ball. |
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Aeneas Hunter
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| Posted: Thu Jul 11, 2019 6:07 am Post subject: |
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| adkindo wrote: | Also, I find this quote interesting.
| Quote: | | Jeffery Kessler, the female players’ attorney, said via email: “The USSF has an obligation under US law to provide equal pay regardless of how FIFA discriminates. The discrimination against the women occurs in both Non- World Cup games and World Cup games.” |
Correct me if I am wrong, but the attorney is suggesting that FIFA "discriminates" against females because overall revenue related to Men's FIFA events are much larger than Women's FIFA events....and the US has an obligation to correct that on this end by taking FIFA distributions from the Men's events, and give it to the Women's team?
The "fact checker" piece seems to lean heavy to one side by focusing on areas like the women's success and ticket sales....but only mentioning the massive difference in revenue generated for mens events compared to female events. Doesn't much of it come down to this....
| Quote: | | Total prize money for the Women’s World Cup in 2019 is $30 million — the champions will walk away with about $4 million. For contrast, in the 2018 Men’s World Cup, the champions won $38 million from a total pool of about $400 million. |
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That's just Kessler spouting rhetoric about his view of the Equal Pay Act and Title VII. I have avoided getting into the legal details of the lawsuit. I think most employment lawyers expect that it will get thrown out unless the USWNT pressures the USSF into settling (which is what this is all about). I've give you just a bit of a counter argument to Kessler.
Imagine a situation in which there are two commissioned outside sales people, Bob and Mary. They both get paid 4% of gross sales. During a particular year, Bob generates $2M in sales and gets commissions totaling $80k. Mary generates $1M in sales and gets commissions totaling $40k. No one would say that this violates the Equal Pay Act or Title VII. The company is not required to give Mary $20k of Bob's commissions just so they will make the same amount of money.
However, the next step is to ask whether Bob and Mary are being given equal opportunities to generate sales. If Bob is being given all of the A+ clients, and Mary is being given the dregs, then we could still have sex discrimination. I've had cases along those lines. But even if this is true, if different types of customers require different sorts of skills (which is sometimes true in technical fields), or if the A+ clients are customers that Bob has developed over the years, the company is fine.
So Kessler is wrong that the USSF has an obligation to pay equally regardless of what FIFA does -- that's analogous to the difference in the commissions. Furthermore, the USSF cannot give the USWNT the opportunity to earn revenues from the men's World Cup, because the USWNT could never qualify. (I know this triggers some people, but even the weakest men's teams in CONCACAF would just obliterate the USWNT.)
The argument reduces to the idea that FIFA should equalize the prize pools just because some people think it is unfair that men's soccer generates exponentially more revenue than women's soccer. That's an idea that has zero traction, but I guess (as RF says) it generates woke points. |
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ribeye
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| Posted: Thu Jul 11, 2019 6:23 am Post subject: |
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One thing I think is safe to say that won't find much (there shouldn't be any) contention: The US women look better in dresses than do the men.
See ESPYS.
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DaMuleRules
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| Posted: Thu Jul 11, 2019 2:56 pm Post subject: |
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| ribeye wrote: | One thing I think is safe to say that won't find much (there shouldn't be any) contention: The US women look better in dresses than do the men.
See ESPYS. |
They look better regardless of what they are wearing.
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DaMuleRules
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| Posted: Thu Jul 11, 2019 3:53 pm Post subject: |
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Just bought tickets for the USWNT v. Ireland match at the Rose Bowl in a couple of weeks. Looking forward to that!
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You thought God was an architect, now you know
He’s something like a pipe bomb ready to blow
And everything you built that’s all for show
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In 24 frames
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Man, do those lyrics resonate right now |
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ribeye
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| Posted: Fri Jul 12, 2019 8:14 am Post subject: |
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Just to put all the highlights together, here is 12 minutes of bliss and awesomeness as we watch the great steal by Dunn, the deft touch serve by Mewis to Lavelle, who expertly takes the ball from the circle, accelerating as she was dribbling, head up using a step-over and exquisite touch control to set up a right shoulder fake to second brilliant step-over, and then throwing her entire body to the ground with a blistering shot. Only a handful in the world could do this as well.
14 different angles, including some slow mo of Lavelle's goal
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jodeke
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| Posted: Fri Jul 12, 2019 9:53 am Post subject: |
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| Aeneas Hunter wrote: | | jodeke wrote: | | I know AH. I kinda went off the rails. You seem to be versed on the game and it's workings. Only time I watch soccer is when my Belizean friends come over. Not knowing the rules makes watching difficult. I'm still trying to get with off sides. |
The offside rule is simple. Here is FIFA's guide to understanding this amazing clear and easy to apply rule:
https://www.fifa.com/mm/document/afdeveloping/refereeing/law_11_offside_en_47383.pdf |
That's what Pappy says. I'm slow on the uptake. I'll get it eventually if I watch more soccer.
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loslakersss
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| Posted: Fri Jul 12, 2019 10:48 am Post subject: |
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| jodeke wrote: | | Aeneas Hunter wrote: | | jodeke wrote: | | I know AH. I kinda went off the rails. You seem to be versed on the game and it's workings. Only time I watch soccer is when my Belizean friends come over. Not knowing the rules makes watching difficult. I'm still trying to get with off sides. |
The offside rule is simple. Here is FIFA's guide to understanding this amazing clear and easy to apply rule:
https://www.fifa.com/mm/document/afdeveloping/refereeing/law_11_offside_en_47383.pdf |
That's what Pappy says. I'm slow on the uptake. I'll get it eventually if I watch more soccer. |
TBH I learned most soccer and football/NFL rules when I was a kid by playing the video games. I swear that is the best way to learn if you dont actually play. |
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