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BadGuy
Star Player
Joined: 13 May 2008
Posts: 3616
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 Posted: Wed May 22, 2019 3:00 pm Post subject: |
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| BigGameHames wrote: | | BadGuy wrote: | | BigGameHames wrote: | | SuperboyReformed wrote: | | BadGuy wrote: | This argument is a fallacy that people like to back up with the stat of games won without KD with Steph on the floor. If the Warriors were better without KD, teams wouldn't be scrambling to form superteams this summer and (bleep) so much about KD being on the Warriors.
The Bucks would the Warriors without KD, as others have mentioned. With KD, the Bucks have almost no chance of winning. Who is going to guard Giannis without KD on the floor? |
yea very true. this is all BS.
fans would love to believe shorty baby face sweet curry is more valuable than 7' dude who shoots just as well. the only reason the stats can support such ridiculous arguments is because the warriors have so much talent to spare, they can probably win with both kd and curry out...and then it will look like klay is more valuable than curry and durant. the real point is they are so stocked with talent that they can have any major injury and still win. so now curry has to score a little more than with kd.
if anything, it just proves curry and the others are coasting most of the time, and only have to exert a special level of effort once in a while when it looks like they will lose. compare this to mj or kobe or other past greats who had WAY more responsibility and couldnt afford to coast most of the time. such nonsense. |
Then why are they significantly worse without Curry and with KD than vice versa? I don’t know if they are better without KD but they might be just as good. |
The ass whooping they received from LeBron and Kyrie after going up 3-1 says otherwise; this comeback had never happened in the history of the sport before, and it happened to a historically great 73-9 team. You don't make your team better by removing a top 3 player in the league (and the best player on the team) regardless of how people try to explain it. |
I wouldn’t call losing on a last second shot in a game 7 an ass whooping but that’s neither here nor there. The fact LeBron did something historic is irrelevant to the discussion at hand.
He’s not the best player on the team. Quite frankly, I don’t even think there is a debate about who’s most valuable to the Warriors. Their record without him speaks for themselves and the eye test matches it. He’s an all-time talent, but he’s closer to the 3rd most important player than 1st. |
Losing 3 straight games (including two at home after being up 3-1) in the Finals is an asswhooping, especially when no other team has ever lost like that before. If you think Steph is better than KD (or even more valuable to the Warriors), I am not sure what to say. Who got Finals MVP the past two rings? What has Steph done in the Finals (without KD) in general? Not much. You are arguing aesthetics aka the "eye test" over effectiveness here. What's the Warriors Finals record with (8-1) and without KD (7-6)? Regular season games and earlier playoff rounds mean very little compared to the Finals. |
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BigGameHames
Star Player
Joined: 24 May 2015
Posts: 7982
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| Posted: Wed May 22, 2019 3:47 pm Post subject: |
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| BadGuy wrote: | | BigGameHames wrote: | | BadGuy wrote: | | BigGameHames wrote: | | SuperboyReformed wrote: | | BadGuy wrote: | This argument is a fallacy that people like to back up with the stat of games won without KD with Steph on the floor. If the Warriors were better without KD, teams wouldn't be scrambling to form superteams this summer and (bleep) so much about KD being on the Warriors.
The Bucks would the Warriors without KD, as others have mentioned. With KD, the Bucks have almost no chance of winning. Who is going to guard Giannis without KD on the floor? |
yea very true. this is all BS.
fans would love to believe shorty baby face sweet curry is more valuable than 7' dude who shoots just as well. the only reason the stats can support such ridiculous arguments is because the warriors have so much talent to spare, they can probably win with both kd and curry out...and then it will look like klay is more valuable than curry and durant. the real point is they are so stocked with talent that they can have any major injury and still win. so now curry has to score a little more than with kd.
if anything, it just proves curry and the others are coasting most of the time, and only have to exert a special level of effort once in a while when it looks like they will lose. compare this to mj or kobe or other past greats who had WAY more responsibility and couldnt afford to coast most of the time. such nonsense. |
Then why are they significantly worse without Curry and with KD than vice versa? I don’t know if they are better without KD but they might be just as good. |
The ass whooping they received from LeBron and Kyrie after going up 3-1 says otherwise; this comeback had never happened in the history of the sport before, and it happened to a historically great 73-9 team. You don't make your team better by removing a top 3 player in the league (and the best player on the team) regardless of how people try to explain it. |
I wouldn’t call losing on a last second shot in a game 7 an ass whooping but that’s neither here nor there. The fact LeBron did something historic is irrelevant to the discussion at hand.
He’s not the best player on the team. Quite frankly, I don’t even think there is a debate about who’s most valuable to the Warriors. Their record without him speaks for themselves and the eye test matches it. He’s an all-time talent, but he’s closer to the 3rd most important player than 1st. |
Losing 3 straight games (including two at home after being up 3-1) in the Finals is an asswhooping, especially when no other team has ever lost like that before. If you think Steph is better than KD (or even more valuable to the Warriors), I am not sure what to say. Who got Finals MVP the past two rings? What has Steph done in the Finals (without KD) in general? Not much. You are arguing aesthetics aka the "eye test" over effectiveness here. What's the Warriors Finals record with (8-1) and without KD (7-6)? Regular season games and earlier playoff rounds mean very little compared to the Finals. |
Oh the irony |
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BadGuy
Star Player
Joined: 13 May 2008
Posts: 3616
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| Posted: Fri May 31, 2019 7:46 am Post subject: |
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| Seems like a good time to bump this thread. The Warriors are now 7-7 without KD in the Finals. |
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loslakersss
Franchise Player
Joined: 31 Dec 2008
Posts: 11853
Location: LA
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| Posted: Fri Jun 07, 2019 12:08 pm Post subject: |
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| loslakersss wrote: | This level of play is not sustainable. They wouldn't be playing this well with KD helping keep everyone's workload smaller during the season and earlier rounds. They'd be looking tired like Portland right now.
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Well they started falling apart far quicker than I imagined. |
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Basketball Fan
Franchise Player
Joined: 03 Feb 2004
Posts: 24761
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| Posted: Sat Jun 08, 2019 7:14 am Post subject: |
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| They're about to lose the NBA Finals to Toronto(who I picked to win anyways because they matched up better with the depleted Warriors) |
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kikanga
Retired Number
Joined: 15 Sep 2012
Posts: 29282
Location: La La Land
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| Posted: Sat Jun 08, 2019 8:09 am Post subject: |
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This thread aged like warm milk.
_________________
"Every hurt is a lesson, and every lesson makes you better” |
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pio2u
Retired Number
Joined: 26 Dec 2012
Posts: 54571
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| Posted: Sat Jun 08, 2019 1:25 pm Post subject: Re: The Warriors ARE better without KD |
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| KobeIsTheOne wrote: | In my opinion.
Look, the Warriors without KD play totally unselfish basketball without KD, and play with better rhythm.
There is more movement and far less forced touches and isolation.
This takes advantage of their players' strengths much better.
I honestly don't understand how this is so quickly dismissed as "crazy" in the media. It's actually a pretty fascinating discussion, imo. |
This post & thread didn't age very well.....  |
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Wvc0925
Starting Rotation
Joined: 29 Nov 2017
Posts: 321
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| Posted: Sat Jun 08, 2019 7:14 pm Post subject: |
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| They play more like a "team," without KD, but they aren't a better team. |
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