A Couple of SeaSteaders Face Death Penalty in Thailand
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Aussiesuede
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PostPosted: Fri Apr 19, 2019 7:58 am    Post subject: A Couple of SeaSteaders Face Death Penalty in Thailand

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Chad Elwartowski and his partner Supranee Thepdet, have been accused of violating Thai sovereignty by raising a small cabin on top of a big, weighted spar in what they say are international waters, 14 nautical miles off the west-coast Thai island of Phuket.

But Thailand says the structure is in its 200-mile exclusive economic zone. They have been charged under a law on the violation of sovereignty, which stipulates punishment of life in prison or death.

The pair are part of a “seasteading” movement that advocates the building of floating communities in international waters beyond the bounds of any national laws. But the Thai navy raided their home this week and authorities revoked Elwartowski’s visa and charged them.

A group of entrepreneurs called Ocean Builders, which funded the construction of the floating home, said the two had done nothing wrong.

The group said in a statement the home was in a so-called contiguous zone of 12-24 nautical miles, where very limited Thai regulations applied, and they had no intention of setting up any independent state or “micro nation”.


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PostPosted: Fri Apr 19, 2019 8:20 am    Post subject:

I they think that living like that is a good idea, death might be a mercy.
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PostPosted: Fri Apr 19, 2019 10:00 am    Post subject:

that is like a childs treehouse built on a Buoy.

Dude bought an entire U.S. Coastguard Light Station for $85K....and it is a mansion compared to that.

http://www.fptower.com/
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PostPosted: Fri Apr 19, 2019 11:46 am    Post subject:

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You have heard of start-up companies, but there will be a start-up country pretty soon as well.

A whole independent nation could soon be floating on the ocean soon enough, if everything goes well. It would be situated near Tahiti, in the Pacific Ocean, and would operate within its own laws. The project to create this new community, which is being funded by Peter Thiel, the founder of PayPal, could be well up and floating in three years.

The project is being headed by non-profit organisation Seasteading Institute, and the company's president, Joe Quirk, has stated that this new country will conform to its own government.

He said, “Governments just don't get better. They're stuck in previous centuries. That's because land incentives a violent monopoly to control it. If you could have a floating city, it would essentially be a start-up country. We can create a huge diversity of governments for a huge diversity of people.”

he city will comprise of 11, five-sided platforms that will accommodate up to 300 people, and the construction will take place with local wood, bamboo and coconut fibre, along with recycled metal and plastic.


SeaSteading in French Polynesia
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PostPosted: Fri Apr 19, 2019 12:16 pm    Post subject:

adkindo wrote:
that is like a childs treehouse built on a Buoy.

Dude bought an entire U.S. Coastguard Light Station for $85K....and it is a mansion compared to that.

http://www.fptower.com/


great place for a nice telescope...

http://www.astropix.com/images2/i_astrop/eq_tests/bag/AP.jpg
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PostPosted: Fri Apr 19, 2019 2:41 pm    Post subject:

This sounds like great material for a disaster movie. Think The Perfect Storm meets The Towering Inferno.
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PostPosted: Fri Apr 19, 2019 3:15 pm    Post subject:

How do you eat out there?

I know you could catch some fish, but what about a more varied diet?

I assume you catch and drink rain water?
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PostPosted: Fri Apr 19, 2019 3:50 pm    Post subject:

LakerLanny wrote:
How do you eat out there?

I know you could catch some fish, but what about a more varied diet?

I assume you catch and drink rain water?


They made the 20 minute once weekly supply run to Phuket, pretty much like most people go grocery shopping every week. (Granted they only lived on the SeaStead for 3 weeks). They didn't build nor own the little Seastead. They basically volunteered to be guinea pigs for a group owned by Billionaires who want to field test just how governments will react to their envisioned soviergn micro nations where they set their owns rules and taxation (or lack of taxation) structure. Currently there are two competing organisations backed by some pretty serious cashflow.

It's also how people who live on remote Islands in Island nations retrieve goods. They either make weekly, or Biweekly, supply runs to the main island as we experienced in Tonga, or a regular weekly supply vessel makes stops at each island, as was the case in French Polynesia. The 5 months we lived in Moorea, you could have your groceries and supplies delivered via mail service. You'd simply put a colored flag above your mailbox and one color notified the Mail delivery that you had an outgoing request, then the next week you'd receive a package with your order. You could order anything from a washing machine to a cucumber from Papeete, but it cost an arm and a leg.

As far as water, in Tonga they did indeed catch rainwater on the outer islands, but in French Polynesia, Water makers (desalinization machines that can be home built for about $1200, or purchased off the shelf starting at about $3500) were much more common on Moorea, Rhiatea, and Huahine.


Video of SeaStead
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PostPosted: Fri Apr 19, 2019 6:09 pm    Post subject:

Aussiesuede wrote:
LakerLanny wrote:
How do you eat out there?

I know you could catch some fish, but what about a more varied diet?

I assume you catch and drink rain water?


They made the 20 minute once weekly supply run to Phuket, pretty much like most people go grocery shopping every week. (Granted they only lived on the SeaStead for 3 weeks). They didn't build nor own the little Seastead. They basically volunteered to be guinea pigs for a group owned by Billionaires who want to field test just how governments will react to their envisioned soviergn micro nations where they set their owns rules and taxation (or lack of taxation) structure. Currently there are two competing organisations backed by some pretty serious cashflow.

It's also how people who live on remote Islands in Island nations retrieve goods. They either make weekly, or Biweekly, supply runs to the main island as we experienced in Tonga, or a regular weekly supply vessel makes stops at each island, as was the case in French Polynesia. The 5 months we lived in Moorea, you could have your groceries and supplies delivered via mail service. You'd simply put a colored flag above your mailbox and one color notified the Mail delivery that you had an outgoing request, then the next week you'd receive a package with your order. You could order anything from a washing machine to a cucumber from Papeete, but it cost an arm and a leg.

As far as water, in Tonga they did indeed catch rainwater on the outer islands, but in French Polynesia, Water makers (desalinization machines that can be home built for about $1200, or purchased off the shelf starting at about $3500) were much more common on Moorea, Rhiatea, and Huahine.


Video of SeaStead


Desalinzation I was going to ask about, but thought it was too expensive on a small scale.

Great information, I find this whole type of thing intriguing. I love the idea of downsizing.
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PostPosted: Fri Apr 19, 2019 6:26 pm    Post subject:

LakerLanny wrote:
Aussiesuede wrote:
LakerLanny wrote:
How do you eat out there?

I know you could catch some fish, but what about a more varied diet?

I assume you catch and drink rain water?


They made the 20 minute once weekly supply run to Phuket, pretty much like most people go grocery shopping every week. (Granted they only lived on the SeaStead for 3 weeks). They didn't build nor own the little Seastead. They basically volunteered to be guinea pigs for a group owned by Billionaires who want to field test just how governments will react to their envisioned soviergn micro nations where they set their owns rules and taxation (or lack of taxation) structure. Currently there are two competing organisations backed by some pretty serious cashflow.

It's also how people who live on remote Islands in Island nations retrieve goods. They either make weekly, or Biweekly, supply runs to the main island as we experienced in Tonga, or a regular weekly supply vessel makes stops at each island, as was the case in French Polynesia. The 5 months we lived in Moorea, you could have your groceries and supplies delivered via mail service. You'd simply put a colored flag above your mailbox and one color notified the Mail delivery that you had an outgoing request, then the next week you'd receive a package with your order. You could order anything from a washing machine to a cucumber from Papeete, but it cost an arm and a leg.

As far as water, in Tonga they did indeed catch rainwater on the outer islands, but in French Polynesia, Water makers (desalinization machines that can be home built for about $1200, or purchased off the shelf starting at about $3500) were much more common on Moorea, Rhiatea, and Huahine.


Video of SeaStead


Desalinzation I was going to ask about, but thought it was too expensive on a small scale.

Great information, I find this whole type of thing intriguing. I love the idea of downsizing.


Watermakers have been commonplace on Cruising Sailboats for the past 20 years. 80% of us have em.

Here is an article on how to construct a DIY Watermaker. It's not really all that difficult. There are so many companies making watermakers for boats theses days that each year the prices drop by about 10%. I built mine with 100% Spectra factory parts except for my high pressure pumps for a little under $4000 and have the capacity of an off the shelf Spectra unit that would cost a bit over $9000. Took me one weekend to build it from the ground up. I spend about $400/year on replacement membranes, and haven't had the system go down in 7 years of usage. Water is 20% more pure than tap water.

DIY Watermaker
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PostPosted: Fri Apr 19, 2019 7:00 pm    Post subject:

I wonder how the US would respond if people started setting up a community on the edge of our border in international waters. These people seemed harmless...but what if it was 20? I would kind of get why the Thai government would at least like to talk to them or keep an eye on them.
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PostPosted: Fri Apr 19, 2019 7:07 pm    Post subject:

adkindo wrote:
I wonder how the US would respond if people started setting up a community on the edge of our border in international waters. These people seemed harmless...but what if it was 20? I would kind of get why the Thai government would at least like to talk to them or keep an eye on them.


Pretty sure most governments would be wary of anybody setting up shop next to their coastline.
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PostPosted: Fri Apr 19, 2019 7:13 pm    Post subject:

adkindo wrote:
I wonder how the US would respond if people started setting up a community on the edge of our border in international waters. These people seemed harmless...but what if it was 20? I would kind of get why the Thai government would at least like to talk to them or keep an eye on them.


The US government response is pretty easy to predict. When you see the "Moneyed Interests" that have expressed interest in Seasteading, and the Transhumanist Party Movement in general, Jeff Bezos, Elon Musk, Richard Branson. The US isn't going to have a kind view of that type of tax revenue exiting the US economy. A colony with control of resources in excess of $100 billion sitting off the coast of the US? That's more than the GDP of Cuba. Things would not go well for the guinea pigs those rich tax dodgers would setup in those colonies. Just look at the recent US response to all the traditional tax havens for a predictor of US response.
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PostPosted: Sat Apr 20, 2019 6:11 am    Post subject:

lakersken80 wrote:
adkindo wrote:
I wonder how the US would respond if people started setting up a community on the edge of our border in international waters. These people seemed harmless...but what if it was 20? I would kind of get why the Thai government would at least like to talk to them or keep an eye on them.


Pretty sure most governments would be wary of anybody setting up shop next to their coastline.


should be the same response as how each country deal with illegal immigration
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PostPosted: Sat Apr 20, 2019 3:02 pm    Post subject:

Aussiesuede wrote:
adkindo wrote:
I wonder how the US would respond if people started setting up a community on the edge of our border in international waters. These people seemed harmless...but what if it was 20? I would kind of get why the Thai government would at least like to talk to them or keep an eye on them.


The US government response is pretty easy to predict. When you see the "Moneyed Interests" that have expressed interest in Seasteading, and the Transhumanist Party Movement in general, Jeff Bezos, Elon Musk, Richard Branson. The US isn't going to have a kind view of that type of tax revenue exiting the US economy. A colony with control of resources in excess of $100 billion sitting off the coast of the US? That's more than the GDP of Cuba. Things would not go well for the guinea pigs those rich tax dodgers would setup in those colonies. Just look at the recent US response to all the traditional tax havens for a predictor of US response.


how long before "Jeff Bezos, Elon Musk, Richard Branson, etc." set up their community in international waters would it be invaded by an army of pirates? I just do not see those types stepping beyond the protection provided to them by a strong nation of laws.
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PostPosted: Sun Apr 21, 2019 6:55 pm    Post subject:

How safe are seasteading sites? I've been at sea in a typhoon, experienced how dangerous the sea can be when angry. Will these sites hold up through a typhoon?
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PostPosted: Sun Apr 21, 2019 7:17 pm    Post subject:

jodeke wrote:
How safe are seasteading sites? I've been at sea in a typhoon, experienced how dangerous the sea can be when angry. Will these sites hold up through a typhoon?


The truth is it's all conjecture at this stage since no large scale colonies have been constructed as yet. For reference, Navies cruise through Hurricanes / Typhoons / Cyclones.It's definitely a wild ride, but clearly survivable. Current plans are for these colonies to be within 25 miles of land with their own man made reefs and harbor barriers. But with the strength and intensity of storms on the rise, it's still a crapshoot. If a storm is sufficient in size to devastate the land they are near, then it would no doubt decimate the colony as well. As a point of reference, Frecnh Polynesis has had 2 major storm hit in the past 100 years, so not everywhere on the ocean is as dangerous as spots like the Carribean and SE Asia where we see the most threats. Here is a more complete picture of what's envisioned:

SeaSteading Institute
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PostPosted: Sun Apr 21, 2019 7:26 pm    Post subject:

Aussiesuede wrote:
jodeke wrote:
How safe are seasteading sites? I've been at sea in a typhoon, experienced how dangerous the sea can be when angry. Will these sites hold up through a typhoon?


The truth is it's all conjecture at this stage since no large scale colonies have been constructed as yet. For reference, Navies cruise through Hurricanes / Typhoons / Cyclones.It's definitely a wild ride, but clearly survivable. Current plans are for these colonies to be within 25 miles of land with their own man made reefs and harbor barriers. But with the strength and intensity of storms on the rise, it's still a crapshoot. If a storm is sufficient in size to devastate the land they are near, then it would no doubt decimate the colony as well. As a point of reference, Frecnh Polynesis has had 2 major storm hit in the past 100 years, so not everywhere on the ocean is as dangerous as spots like the Carribean and SE Asia where we see the most threats. Here is a more complete picture of what's envisioned:

SeaSteading Institute

Ships are built to ride out storms. When navy ships are in harbor and typhoons are on the horizon they get underway. It's safer at sea than in a harbor. Seasteaders are harbor like facilities.
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PostPosted: Sun Apr 21, 2019 7:37 pm    Post subject:

jodeke wrote:
Aussiesuede wrote:
jodeke wrote:
How safe are seasteading sites? I've been at sea in a typhoon, experienced how dangerous the sea can be when angry. Will these sites hold up through a typhoon?


The truth is it's all conjecture at this stage since no large scale colonies have been constructed as yet. For reference, Navies cruise through Hurricanes / Typhoons / Cyclones.It's definitely a wild ride, but clearly survivable. Current plans are for these colonies to be within 25 miles of land with their own man made reefs and harbor barriers. But with the strength and intensity of storms on the rise, it's still a crapshoot. If a storm is sufficient in size to devastate the land they are near, then it would no doubt decimate the colony as well. As a point of reference, Frecnh Polynesis has had 2 major storm hit in the past 100 years, so not everywhere on the ocean is as dangerous as spots like the Carribean and SE Asia where we see the most threats. Here is a more complete picture of what's envisioned:

SeaSteading Institute

Ships are built to ride out storms. When navy ships are in harbor and typhoons are on the horizon they get underway. It's safer at sea than in a harbor.


Precisely. And a colony of 100-200 peoples within a half hour of land are fairly easily evacuated should the need arise. The most developed plan to date is for a colony in French Polynesia off the coast of Tahiti, designed with a port for Cruise ships. They've planned options. They're backed by billions in monied interests. Oil platforms that are more at risk routinely survive mother natures volleys.
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PostPosted: Sun Apr 21, 2019 7:57 pm    Post subject:

Aussiesuede wrote:
jodeke wrote:
Aussiesuede wrote:
jodeke wrote:
How safe are seasteading sites? I've been at sea in a typhoon, experienced how dangerous the sea can be when angry. Will these sites hold up through a typhoon?


The truth is it's all conjecture at this stage since no large scale colonies have been constructed as yet. For reference, Navies cruise through Hurricanes / Typhoons / Cyclones.It's definitely a wild ride, but clearly survivable. Current plans are for these colonies to be within 25 miles of land with their own man made reefs and harbor barriers. But with the strength and intensity of storms on the rise, it's still a crapshoot. If a storm is sufficient in size to devastate the land they are near, then it would no doubt decimate the colony as well. As a point of reference, Frecnh Polynesis has had 2 major storm hit in the past 100 years, so not everywhere on the ocean is as dangerous as spots like the Carribean and SE Asia where we see the most threats. Here is a more complete picture of what's envisioned:

SeaSteading Institute

Ships are built to ride out storms. When navy ships are in harbor and typhoons are on the horizon they get underway. It's safer at sea than in a harbor.


Precisely. And a colony of 100-200 peoples within a half hour of land are fairly easily evacuated should the need arise. The most developed plan to date is for a colony in French Polynesia off the coast of Tahiti, designed with a port for Cruise ships. They've planned options. They're backed by billions in monied interests. Oil platforms that are more at risk routinely survive mother natures volleys.

Oil platforms came to mind. If the're built like them maybe there's something to the venture.
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PostPosted: Sun Apr 21, 2019 7:58 pm    Post subject:

adkindo wrote:

how long before "Jeff Bezos, Elon Musk, Richard Branson, etc." set up their community in international waters would it be invaded by an army of pirates? I just do not see those types stepping beyond the protection provided to them by a strong nation of laws.


The average Billionaire spends less than 100 days in a given year in the same bed. They have properties all over the globe which they enjoy. They don't live the lifestyle of the average Joe, going back and forth to work everyday and returning home to sleep in their unprotected fortresses. For them, their seastead residence would be no different than their Aspen ski residence, their Riviera estate, their New York Penthouse, their Bora Bora villa, etc. Their protection details travel with them at most times.
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PostPosted: Mon Apr 22, 2019 7:07 pm    Post subject:

I have an irrational fear of being in the middle of the ocean during a storm. What if you get swallowed by a whale or a giant squid? No thanks.
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PostPosted: Mon Apr 22, 2019 7:23 pm    Post subject:

Aussiesuede wrote:
adkindo wrote:

how long before "Jeff Bezos, Elon Musk, Richard Branson, etc." set up their community in international waters would it be invaded by an army of pirates? I just do not see those types stepping beyond the protection provided to them by a strong nation of laws.


The average Billionaire spends less than 100 days in a given year in the same bed. They have properties all over the globe which they enjoy. They don't live the lifestyle of the average Joe, going back and forth to work everyday and returning home to sleep in their unprotected fortresses. For them, their seastead residence would be no different than their Aspen ski residence, their Riviera estate, their New York Penthouse, their Bora Bora villa, etc. Their protection details travel with them at most times.


Billionaires don't really have to go seasteading when they can choose among the number of countries that will welcome their capital with little to no income taxation. Its the countries that still want their taxes that don't want their capital to leave.
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PostPosted: Mon Apr 22, 2019 7:25 pm    Post subject:

Gellollo wrote:
I have an irrational fear of being in the middle of the ocean during a storm. What if you get swallowed by a whale or a giant squid? No thanks.


I would think that a tsunami poses a much bigger threat.
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PostPosted: Mon Apr 22, 2019 7:48 pm    Post subject:

lakersken80 wrote:
Gellollo wrote:
I have an irrational fear of being in the middle of the ocean during a storm. What if you get swallowed by a whale or a giant squid? No thanks.


I would think that a tsunami poses a much bigger threat.


Tsunami;s become dangerous when they hit a continental shelf. That's what creates the catastophic iup-wave. I've been on the ocean sailing when a Tsunami passed beneath me and hardly noticed it. The wave gains momentum as it tavels the ocean, and when it hits a shelf, it has nowhere to go but up and then that stops the wave and it reverses direction back out to sea. Some islands are basically the tops of mountains, and those islands seldom experience the catastophic wrath of a Tsunami.. That's why you never hear of Tsunami's detroying island chains like the Societies & Cooks. For that reason, places off the coasts of places like Northern California to Alaska would be terrible environments for seasteading,
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