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Batguano
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Joined: 19 Mar 2015
Posts: 2275
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 Posted: Sat Dec 19, 2020 7:52 am Post subject: |
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StoicChalice392
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Joined: 19 Jul 2017
Posts: 1725
Location: Yorba Linda, Ca
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| Posted: Sat Dec 19, 2020 7:53 am Post subject: |
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| Omar Little wrote: | | Never meet your heroes. |
this is true. As a young lad, I tried to get my favorite NASCAR driver's autograph, Kevin Harvick, and he flat out said NOT NOW!! not gonna lie, I cried a little. |
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Annihilator
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Joined: 02 Jul 2001
Posts: 4035
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| Posted: Sat Dec 19, 2020 7:54 am Post subject: |
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| Legacy wrote: | There is no tarnish on Jerry's legacy with the Lakers. 
He doesn't work for us. He's not going to encourage a star player to go to another team other than the one he works for (Please no Pau comments. Not even the same scenario).
I see this as a good thing. Clipps and KL (uncle included) are now under the microscope. I am a vengeful dude, and karma is a son of a biotch.  |
This past year, we saw a college admission scandal happen. Parents went to jail for bribing athletic coaches to get their kids favored admissions. I found this surprising because I thought the problems were more civil than criminal. Bribery, however, is bribery. Is there an analogue here? Is bribing KL's uncle (promising to buy him a house would seem to be such an inducement) to get KL to sign with the Clippers akin to bribing a college athletic coach to get a child admitted to a college? To me, they seem as if the underlying issues are awfully similar.
Are there any lawyers out there who can talk intelligently on these issues? |
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LandsbergerRules
Franchise Player
Joined: 29 Aug 2004
Posts: 11197
Location: The Other Perspective
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| Posted: Sat Dec 19, 2020 8:02 am Post subject: |
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[Deleted. -CL]
_________________
"Chick lived and breathed Lakers basketball…but he was also fair and objective and called every game the way it was played."
-from Chick: His Unpublished Memoirs and the Memories of Those Who Knew Him |
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activeverb
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Joined: 17 Jun 2006
Posts: 37470
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| Posted: Sat Dec 19, 2020 8:57 am Post subject: |
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| Dr. Laker wrote: | | activeverb wrote: | | RhodyRay wrote: | | Username wrote: | | I've been telling people for literal years on this board about Jerry West. He's not the kind, feeble old man who just wants to come back and lend a hand to his old organization like many here have tried to posit. |
Jerry West is an old school gangsta! He is a quiet assassin.
Did he get caught with his hand in the cookie jar? Probably.
Will anything happen with this? I HOPE so!
I hope the Clippers get stripped of a few draft picks, pay a $50,000,000 fine and get booted out of LA!
I hope Kawhi goes back to Canada and the Clippers get back to being the dumpster fire that they are.
Thank you Mr. West for always looking after your number one son: THE LOS ANGELES LAKERS!
Jeanie Buss has been paying West to ruin the Clippers all along.
P.S. Jerry, your check for services rendered is in the mail. |
If they determine its run-of-the-mill tampering, West and the Clippers will probably get a million-dollar fine.
If they determine that West and the Clippers actually did agree to pay this guy two and a half million, that's when it gets serious.
That's when they could hand out suspensions and other penalties.
In all likelihood, Kawhi won't be affected, unless they can prove that he knew about this guy getting two and a half million. |
If Kawhi pays the Joe Smith penalty and his contract is voided, no one has cap space except the Knicks (18.5M), Thunder (12.1M) & Hornets (4.0M).
I'm not sure who has MLE money, but Kawhi could lose $40-50 million or more. |
The Joe Smith penalty was extremely rare. That was a situation where the player signed an illegal agreement. Smith was right in the middle of the shenanigans and knew all about them.
For Leonard to be affected by this, you would probably need some actual evidence that he actively encouraged the Clippers to give this guy a 2.5 million under the table payment. |
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J.C. Smith
Franchise Player
Joined: 23 Jun 2005
Posts: 12698
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| Posted: Sat Dec 19, 2020 9:01 am Post subject: |
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| I don't think Kawhi would be affected, but I could see the league doling out a very harsh penalty to the Clippers if there is any proof that it actually happened. |
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activeverb
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Joined: 17 Jun 2006
Posts: 37470
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| Posted: Sat Dec 19, 2020 10:23 am Post subject: |
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| Batguano wrote: | | hype wrote: | | Al13 wrote: | | Staccatos wrote: | Wow. Salesperson or not, I thought Jerry West was a different person than that. As much as I appreciate all that Jerry did for the Lakers in the past and being a father figure for Kobe..... (bleep) Jerry West.
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same way I feel about Magic, ever since he quit on us |
Yeah, this is already tainting West a bit with die hard Laker fans as i've been getting texts from a few older fans who normally would never say anything bad about him. If this goes on for awhile and becomes big news it's going to really hurt him legacy wise for sure whether it's right or wrong imo at least among Laker fans.
There's always been stories out there though that he has a very nasty side and isn't the honorable nice natured legend many like to believe he is. Dudes a shark, I dont think he's some horrible human being in the slightest but I have always believed the blame left on the rest of the Lakers front office for him leaving and not ever coming back always went much deeper then any of us really know. |
Oh please... If he was with the Lakers doing the same crap you wouldn't be saying squat about him. People are in their feelings because he dared go to the crosstown rivals so now people are salty about him. Such hypocrites. You realize LeBron is also borderline (if not straight up) tampering with his whole Klutch Agency setup? But no one bats an eye because it's currently benefitting us. Everyone here bashed Mitch for being a "gentleman" and not bending the rules and now you're going to turn around and demonize The Logo for doing something that is most likely widespread across the league? Pretty much every single player/coach/GM/agent involved in the NBA is cutthroat, because you have to be in this business. If you thought Jerry West was just a "sweet old man" you are just plain naive, just like the people that thought that Magic was "the nicest guy in the world because he smiles a lot".
Most humans are complex in their multiple dualities. Jerry West, Phil Jackson, Pat Riley, Dr. Buss, Jeannie Buss, LeBron, Kobe, Magic, Kareem, Wilt, etc. are all "flawed" human beings that are/were ruthless in the way they operated, but that's why we have those 17 championships that everyone on this board loves to gloat about and rub in every other fanbase's faces.
So please spare me the "tarnished legacy" bullcrap. West is old AF too and the moment he croaks people will be back to glorifying his greatness and singing his praises. |
There's no secret of what West is. He is a tightly wound, highly competitive individual. During Showtime, new reporters would introduce themselves to him and they would inevitably hear a monologue of how horrible everything was -- and then the veteran reporters would tell them to ignore it because it was just West being West.
I have never heard any player or agent complain, on or off the record, that West did anything to them that was unfair. Players generally praise him for the advice he gives them. But anyone who perceived him as an old guy who wanted nothing more than to give the grandkids milk and cookies and make nice with everyone wasn't paying attention.
He's always been a killer. He doesn't seem any different to me now than he did when he was our GM. |
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activeverb
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Joined: 17 Jun 2006
Posts: 37470
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| Posted: Sat Dec 19, 2020 10:44 am Post subject: |
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| Annihilator wrote: | | Legacy wrote: | There is no tarnish on Jerry's legacy with the Lakers.
He doesn't work for us. He's not going to encourage a star player to go to another team other than the one he works for (Please no Pau comments. Not even the same scenario).
I see this as a good thing. Clipps and KL (uncle included) are now under the microscope. I am a vengeful dude, and karma is a son of a biotch. |
This past year, we saw a college admission scandal happen. Parents went to jail for bribing athletic coaches to get their kids favored admissions. I found this surprising because I thought the problems were more civil than criminal. Bribery, however, is bribery. Is there an analogue here? Is bribing KL's uncle (promising to buy him a house would seem to be such an inducement) to get KL to sign with the Clippers akin to bribing a college athletic coach to get a child admitted to a college? To me, they seem as if the underlying issues are awfully similar.
Are there any lawyers out there who can talk intelligently on these issues? |
Bribery is a specific crime. It involves giving money to influence the actions of a person holding a public or legal duty.
KL's uncle and the guy who filed the suit don't have any public or legal duty so there is no bribery or crime involved here. In many business circumstances, giving them money to help them lobby someone they know would be perfectly fine.
The issue here is that giving them money would violate the NBA rules that teams have agreed to, which is that teams cannot provide any compensation to a player beyond their contract. Giving money to a player's relative or friend would constitute additional compensation for the player.
So this isn't a bribery case. No crimes have been committed. However, it is potentially a violation of a business agreement.
The college admissions scandal was a criminal case, because it violated a law related to "honest services," where someone is given bribes or kickbacks to breach a fiduciary responsibility (which is someone who is legally or ethically bound to act in good faith related to someone else's interests.) The guy who filed this suit has no fiduciary responsibility to anyone. |
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Annihilator
Star Player
Joined: 02 Jul 2001
Posts: 4035
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| Posted: Sat Dec 19, 2020 11:27 am Post subject: |
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| activeverb wrote: | | Annihilator wrote: | | Legacy wrote: | There is no tarnish on Jerry's legacy with the Lakers.
He doesn't work for us. He's not going to encourage a star player to go to another team other than the one he works for (Please no Pau comments. Not even the same scenario).
I see this as a good thing. Clipps and KL (uncle included) are now under the microscope. I am a vengeful dude, and karma is a son of a biotch. |
This past year, we saw a college admission scandal happen. Parents went to jail for bribing athletic coaches to get their kids favored admissions. I found this surprising because I thought the problems were more civil than criminal. Bribery, however, is bribery. Is there an analogue here? Is bribing KL's uncle (promising to buy him a house would seem to be such an inducement) to get KL to sign with the Clippers akin to bribing a college athletic coach to get a child admitted to a college? To me, they seem as if the underlying issues are awfully similar.
Are there any lawyers out there who can talk intelligently on these issues? |
Bribery is a specific crime. It involves giving money to influence the actions of a person holding a public or legal duty.
KL's uncle and the guy who filed the suit don't have any public or legal duty so there is no bribery or crime involved here. In many business circumstances, giving them money to help them lobby someone they know would be perfectly fine.
The issue here is that giving them money would violate the NBA rules that teams have agreed to, which is that teams cannot provide any compensation to a player beyond their contract. Giving money to a player's relative or friend would constitute additional compensation for the player.
So this isn't a bribery case. No crimes have been committed. However, it is potentially a violation of a business agreement.
The college admissions scandal was a criminal case, because it violated a law related to "honest services," where someone is given bribes or kickbacks to breach a fiduciary responsibility (which is someone who is legally or ethically bound to act in good faith related to someone else's interests.) The guy who filed this suit has no fiduciary responsibility to anyone. |
Thank you!!!!!! |
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drae
Franchise Player
Joined: 13 Nov 2018
Posts: 16151
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| Posted: Sat Dec 19, 2020 11:46 am Post subject: |
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| J.C. Smith wrote: | | I don't think Kawhi would be affected, but I could see the league doling out a very harsh penalty to the Clippers if there is any proof that it actually happened. |
Kawhi won't be affected and the Clippers will get a small penalty (unless they were stupid enough to be found guilty of cap circumvention, in which case that will hurt). Unfortunately what will happen is West's reputation is going to be tarnished and this may be the end of his consulting career.
If he's negligent enough to leave this sort of evidence around he's done as a consultant. |
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KingKobe20
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Joined: 14 Jul 2006
Posts: 18738
Location: L.A County, 26 miles away from Staples Center
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| Posted: Sat Dec 19, 2020 11:46 am Post subject: |
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| Harlemlakerfan wrote: | Were the Lakers a “$hit Show”, when he was begging to come back? A lot of you were mad and saying that the Lakers were dumb for not bringing him back.
All I know is that for as great as a GM that he was for us, there is a reason why Jennie , and Magic at the time, said nope.
Clippers, you wanted him, you got him.
Jerry, you joined them bums from the basement and now, your legacy in LA is tarnished. |
It’s just the nature of the business.
Not trying to say what Jerry said was wrong or necessarily right ethically but getting hired by the Clippers, it’s not an easy sell.
An fwiw maybe not the entire last 7 years but guaranteed the last 6 while Jim Buss was at the helm, we were a 💩💩💩 show.
Jerry is forever competitive it’s just in his blood. An imagine trying to sell Kawhi to not join the Lakers, a team he and his Uncle always admired from afar. I gotta say Jerry won that battle because he not only stole Kawhi from us he got him to join the junior varsity.
An as for any tampering charges nothing will happen just a slap on the wrist. It’s the Clippers organization not the Lakers. The league isn’t gonna milk a bleeding cow |
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drae
Franchise Player
Joined: 13 Nov 2018
Posts: 16151
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| Posted: Sat Dec 19, 2020 11:48 am Post subject: |
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| KingKobe20 wrote: | | An as for any tampering charges nothing will happen just a slap on the wrist. It’s the Clippers organization not the Lakers. The league isn’t gonna milk a bleeding cow |
The end game isn't tampering, it's cap circumvention.
And bringing this sort of scrutiny onto your place of business and this sort of danger likely means West's career is over. Everyone does it, you don't be stupid about it though |
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_#1_
Star Player
Joined: 18 Aug 2004
Posts: 4757
Location: Next door to 24
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| Posted: Sat Dec 19, 2020 11:52 am Post subject: |
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Dirty Jerry. Crazy Steve. They were laughing and high fiven' about pulling it off till that train came along. Boom. (Charger RT rip  ) |
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KingKobe20
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Joined: 14 Jul 2006
Posts: 18738
Location: L.A County, 26 miles away from Staples Center
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| Posted: Sat Dec 19, 2020 11:55 am Post subject: |
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| drae wrote: | | KingKobe20 wrote: | | An as for any tampering charges nothing will happen just a slap on the wrist. It’s the Clippers organization not the Lakers. The league isn’t gonna milk a bleeding cow |
The end game isn't tampering, it's cap circumvention.
And bringing this sort of scrutiny onto your place of business and this sort of danger likely means West's career is over. Everyone does it, you don't be stupid about it though |
Yeah not saying Jerry didn’t break any rules because he definitely did.
But in the end Jerry being Exiled from any teams front office does not matter for the 82 year old Legend.
Bottom line is Kawhi is still on the Clippers for the foreseeable future. They got out of mediocrity with Jerry’s abuse of power lol.
An as much we wanna blast him and Clippers because they are our enemy , we all know damn well Rob does the same thing behind closed doors. As well as every other GM in the league |
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StoicChalice392
Star Player
Joined: 19 Jul 2017
Posts: 1725
Location: Yorba Linda, Ca
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| Posted: Sat Dec 19, 2020 11:56 am Post subject: |
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| KingKobe20 wrote: | | drae wrote: | | KingKobe20 wrote: | | An as for any tampering charges nothing will happen just a slap on the wrist. It’s the Clippers organization not the Lakers. The league isn’t gonna milk a bleeding cow |
The end game isn't tampering, it's cap circumvention.
And bringing this sort of scrutiny onto your place of business and this sort of danger likely means West's career is over. Everyone does it, you don't be stupid about it though |
Yeah not saying Jerry didn’t break any rules because he definitely did.
But in the end Jerry being Exiled from any teams front office does not matter for the 82 year old Legend.
Bottom line is Kawhi is still on the Clippers for the foreseeable future. They got out of mediocrity with Jerry’s abuse of power lol.
An as much we wanna blast him and Clippers because they are our enemy , we all know damn well Rob does the same thing behind closed doors. As well as every other GM in the league |
Lies. Mitch is straight shooter.  |
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kikanga
Retired Number
Joined: 15 Sep 2012
Posts: 29637
Location: La La Land
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| Posted: Sat Dec 19, 2020 12:00 pm Post subject: |
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[Deleted. -CL]
_________________
"Every hurt is a lesson, and every lesson makes you better”
Last edited by kikanga on Sat Dec 19, 2020 12:05 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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kikanga
Retired Number
Joined: 15 Sep 2012
Posts: 29637
Location: La La Land
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| Posted: Sat Dec 19, 2020 12:03 pm Post subject: |
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| M2K wrote: | The stench of politics seeping into a Lakers forum. Not hard to guess which side continues stepping over boundaries. Good grief.
Btw... I'm with you guys... J West definitely colluded with the Russians in winning Kawhi last year.  |
This post has a split personality. The first set of sentences could be a reply post to the second set of sentences.
_________________
"Every hurt is a lesson, and every lesson makes you better” |
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kikanga
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Posts: 29637
Location: La La Land
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| Posted: Sat Dec 19, 2020 12:04 pm Post subject: |
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Change the logo to Kobe.
_________________
"Every hurt is a lesson, and every lesson makes you better” |
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lakersken80
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Joined: 12 Aug 2009
Posts: 38898
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| Posted: Sat Dec 19, 2020 12:09 pm Post subject: |
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| The TMZ audio may be rather innoucous but it pretty much shatters the public perception of Jerry West in the media. You see nice guy Jerry West being interviewed by Jim Hill or whatever local media sports figure you have this built in perception of the person....in the TMZ audio you see the other side of Jerry, one who uses bad language, the guy who would do whatever it takes to get that free agent....this is the guy NBA superstars know the type of hyper competitive personality none of us see. |
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Four Decade Bandwagon
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Joined: 18 Jul 2014
Posts: 8184
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| Posted: Sat Dec 19, 2020 12:13 pm Post subject: |
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| [Deleted. -CL] |
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kikanga
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Joined: 15 Sep 2012
Posts: 29637
Location: La La Land
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| Posted: Sat Dec 19, 2020 12:19 pm Post subject: |
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[Deleted. -CL]
_________________
"Every hurt is a lesson, and every lesson makes you better” |
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Aeneas Hunter
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Four Decade Bandwagon
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Joined: 18 Jul 2014
Posts: 8184
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| Posted: Sat Dec 19, 2020 12:28 pm Post subject: |
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| [Deleted. -CL] |
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Runway8
Franchise Player
Joined: 19 Apr 2003
Posts: 22883
Location: La Jolla, San Diego
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| Posted: Sat Dec 19, 2020 1:12 pm Post subject: |
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| lakersken80 wrote: | | The TMZ audio may be rather innoucous but it pretty much shatters the public perception of Jerry West in the media. You see nice guy Jerry West being interviewed by Jim Hill or whatever local media sports figure you have this built in perception of the person....in the TMZ audio you see the other side of Jerry, one who uses bad language, the guy who would do whatever it takes to get that free agent....this is the guy NBA superstars know the type of hyper competitive personality none of us see. |
Well, Laker fans shouldn't be shocked. Through books, and interviews by people talking about JW, we all knew he had foul mouth. Way back when the Lakers were considering Phil Jackson, JW said, "F**K a Phil Jackson..." Before he had to cave in and follow Buss' orders to get PJ. |
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activeverb
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Posts: 37470
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| Posted: Sat Dec 19, 2020 2:08 pm Post subject: |
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| drae wrote: | | Unfortunately what will happen is West's reputation is going to be tarnished and this may be the end of his consulting career. |
Maybe. Or maybe in a few weeks it will be nothing more than a hazy memory. |
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