LAL’s Core only played 23 Games Together - Were on Pace for 53 Wins
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Aeneas Hunter
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PostPosted: Sun Apr 07, 2019 8:37 am    Post subject:

I've posted the injury stats before. As of March 1, we had a typical level of injuries for an NBA team, even factoring in the production levels of the specific players. We did not have extraordinary injuries. Just typical. And we were already done.

So sure, if we had an injury-free year, we were almost certain to make the playoffs. So what? As of March 1, we had a typical level of injuries, and we were done. Injuries are relevant, but they are no excuse for poor roster construction.
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bandiger
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PostPosted: Sun Apr 07, 2019 8:37 am    Post subject:

Lakers suck bad in reality time to dream up more fantasy numbers to make sure the team/franchise was alright. Glad I have the Dodgers to deal with this failure
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PostPosted: Sun Apr 07, 2019 8:40 am    Post subject:

Aeneas Hunter wrote:
I've posted the injury stats before. As of March 1, we had a typical level of injuries for an NBA team, even factoring in the production levels of the specific players. We did not have extraordinary injuries. Just typical. And we were already done.

So sure, if we had an injury-free year, we were almost certain to make the playoffs. So what? As of March 1, we had a typical level of injuries, and we were done. Injuries are relevant, but they are no excuse for poor roster construction.


If you don't have a team that can withstand some injuries over the course of 82 games, then you didn't have a good team to begin with. The only thing I'd say to this information is that it makes a case for keeping the LeBron, Kuz, BI, Lonzo group together and filling in properly along the margins (or adding a max guy to it) rather than with MUD. But anyone who thinks this was an actual 53-win top 4 team in the West is drinking the Magic kool-aid.
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PostPosted: Sun Apr 07, 2019 8:59 am    Post subject:

That's why the roster sucks. We had no quality off the bench;
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PostPosted: Sun Apr 07, 2019 9:06 am    Post subject:

KBH wrote:
55 wrote:
tony wrote:
Everyone blames injuries but injuries are apart of the game. Fact of the matter is our roster was not put together to the strengths of our best player, they made questionable trades, and we (bleep) the bed on games we should've won that led to our downfall.


Were you saying that while we were in 4th place or after the injuries piled on?


I thought this team had a flawed roster with little margin for error even before the injuries. Fact of the matter is that injuries happen and this clearly wasn't a team with a large margin for error. There were signs of this disaster early when we started 2-5 and turned things around after getting Chandler. If your team is dependent on McGee who is a career 10 mpg guy, Chandler at 41 (not to mention the flawed MUD players), it's no surprise when one or two guys being out of the lineup sends your season into a tailspin. What's funny is that people cling to the 4-6 weeks we played good basketball as the true indicator of and ignore the early portion of the season AND when LeBron and most of the lineup (sans Ball) was back in February with the playoffs still within reach and we were still getting run out of the gym. There's little evidence to believe that the team in December was much more than an outlier.


One could argue that we needed time to gel and learn how to play with each other and that's when things started to fit and our record was good. Sure, injuries happen but you can't replace a Lebron with a sub no matter how you construct your team. It's the anti-Magic crowd who believe that anything we did well was by luck, and everything that went wrong was meant to be.
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PostPosted: Sun Apr 07, 2019 9:16 am    Post subject:

55 wrote:
KBH wrote:
55 wrote:
tony wrote:
Everyone blames injuries but injuries are apart of the game. Fact of the matter is our roster was not put together to the strengths of our best player, they made questionable trades, and we (bleep) the bed on games we should've won that led to our downfall.


Were you saying that while we were in 4th place or after the injuries piled on?


I thought this team had a flawed roster with little margin for error even before the injuries. Fact of the matter is that injuries happen and this clearly wasn't a team with a large margin for error. There were signs of this disaster early when we started 2-5 and turned things around after getting Chandler. If your team is dependent on McGee who is a career 10 mpg guy, Chandler at 41 (not to mention the flawed MUD players), it's no surprise when one or two guys being out of the lineup sends your season into a tailspin. What's funny is that people cling to the 4-6 weeks we played good basketball as the true indicator of and ignore the early portion of the season AND when LeBron and most of the lineup (sans Ball) was back in February with the playoffs still within reach and we were still getting run out of the gym. There's little evidence to believe that the team in December was much more than an outlier.


One could argue that we needed time to gel and learn how to play with each other and that's when things started to fit and our record was good. Sure, injuries happen but you can't replace a Lebron with a sub no matter how you construct your team. It's the anti-Magic crowd who believe that anything we did well was by luck, and everything that went wrong was meant to be.


It's one thing to lose more than you would without your best player. It's an entirely different thing for your team to fall apart. Indiana hasn't had Oladipo since January. And while they've fallen in the standings, they haven't fallen apart. There's nothing anti-Magic about saying he constructed a roster with little margin for error because he signed no shooters and had us depending on a career 10 mpg C to anchor the court. It's acknowleding reality.
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PostPosted: Sun Apr 07, 2019 9:19 am    Post subject:

55 wrote:
tony wrote:
Everyone blames injuries but injuries are apart of the game. Fact of the matter is our roster was not put together to the strengths of our best player, they made questionable trades, and we (bleep) the bed on games we should've won that led to our downfall.


Were you saying that while we were in 4th place or after the injuries piled on?


Many of us said it before the first game. And we were right. Sad that novice fans know more than a highly paid FO.
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PostPosted: Sun Apr 07, 2019 9:19 am    Post subject:

I think even if healthy, we were on pace to win only 42-45 games. I’ve seen the games and we were not that good at all. We didn’t exactly blow out teams either. Many games were close. I think some people get caught up with us being the 4th seed at one point, but the difference between 4th and 8th was only a few games. It was a fluke run. This roster is flawed on so many levels.
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55
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PostPosted: Sun Apr 07, 2019 5:42 pm    Post subject:

KBH wrote:
55 wrote:
KBH wrote:
55 wrote:
tony wrote:
Everyone blames injuries but injuries are apart of the game. Fact of the matter is our roster was not put together to the strengths of our best player, they made questionable trades, and we (bleep) the bed on games we should've won that led to our downfall.


Were you saying that while we were in 4th place or after the injuries piled on?


I thought this team had a flawed roster with little margin for error even before the injuries. Fact of the matter is that injuries happen and this clearly wasn't a team with a large margin for error. There were signs of this disaster early when we started 2-5 and turned things around after getting Chandler. If your team is dependent on McGee who is a career 10 mpg guy, Chandler at 41 (not to mention the flawed MUD players), it's no surprise when one or two guys being out of the lineup sends your season into a tailspin. What's funny is that people cling to the 4-6 weeks we played good basketball as the true indicator of and ignore the early portion of the season AND when LeBron and most of the lineup (sans Ball) was back in February with the playoffs still within reach and we were still getting run out of the gym. There's little evidence to believe that the team in December was much more than an outlier.


One could argue that we needed time to gel and learn how to play with each other and that's when things started to fit and our record was good. Sure, injuries happen but you can't replace a Lebron with a sub no matter how you construct your team. It's the anti-Magic crowd who believe that anything we did well was by luck, and everything that went wrong was meant to be.


It's one thing to lose more than you would without your best player. It's an entirely different thing for your team to fall apart. Indiana hasn't had Oladipo since January. And while they've fallen in the standings, they haven't fallen apart. There's nothing anti-Magic about saying he constructed a roster with little margin for error because he signed no shooters and had us depending on a career 10 mpg C to anchor the court. It's acknowleding reality.


Indy has done quite well without him but there’s a huge difference between losing a player like Lebron to Olapido. Once PG was off the table, we punted and needed to fill the roster with whatever quality players we could sign on 1 year deals. We were never going to win a title this year but we would’ve been quite competitive. Let’s see what happens this summer... if sign KL or any of the top tier FA, then it was all worth it.
Besides complaining, what other solutions do you have that could’ve kept another max slot open this summer while trying to stay competitive this year?
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PostPosted: Sun Apr 07, 2019 6:02 pm    Post subject:

55 wrote:
KBH wrote:
55 wrote:
tony wrote:
Everyone blames injuries but injuries are apart of the game. Fact of the matter is our roster was not put together to the strengths of our best player, they made questionable trades, and we (bleep) the bed on games we should've won that led to our downfall.


Were you saying that while we were in 4th place or after the injuries piled on?


I thought this team had a flawed roster with little margin for error even before the injuries. Fact of the matter is that injuries happen and this clearly wasn't a team with a large margin for error. There were signs of this disaster early when we started 2-5 and turned things around after getting Chandler. If your team is dependent on McGee who is a career 10 mpg guy, Chandler at 41 (not to mention the flawed MUD players), it's no surprise when one or two guys being out of the lineup sends your season into a tailspin. What's funny is that people cling to the 4-6 weeks we played good basketball as the true indicator of and ignore the early portion of the season AND when LeBron and most of the lineup (sans Ball) was back in February with the playoffs still within reach and we were still getting run out of the gym. There's little evidence to believe that the team in December was much more than an outlier.


One could argue that we needed time to gel and learn how to play with each other and that's when things started to fit and our record was good. Sure, injuries happen but you can't replace a Lebron with a sub no matter how you construct your team. It's the anti-Magic crowd who believe that anything we did well was by luck, and everything that went wrong was meant to be.


Check out the Clippers record since they traded for Zubac, who starts for them now.

This is their starting lineup:

Gallinari
Patrick Beverly
Shai Gigleous (rookie)
Shamet (rookie, acquired midseason
Zubac (acquired midseason)

Rest of their rotataion?
Lou
Harrell
Temple (acquired midseason)
Wilson Chandler (acquired midseason)

That's four guys who were on the team last year. Gallinari is the only one who was on the team two years ago. Waaaay more roster turnover than the Lakers. No one on Lebron's level. More winning. The anti-Magic crowd is right.
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pjiddy
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PostPosted: Sun Apr 07, 2019 6:05 pm    Post subject:

55 wrote:
KBH wrote:
55 wrote:
KBH wrote:
55 wrote:
tony wrote:
Everyone blames injuries but injuries are apart of the game. Fact of the matter is our roster was not put together to the strengths of our best player, they made questionable trades, and we (bleep) the bed on games we should've won that led to our downfall.


Were you saying that while we were in 4th place or after the injuries piled on?


I thought this team had a flawed roster with little margin for error even before the injuries. Fact of the matter is that injuries happen and this clearly wasn't a team with a large margin for error. There were signs of this disaster early when we started 2-5 and turned things around after getting Chandler. If your team is dependent on McGee who is a career 10 mpg guy, Chandler at 41 (not to mention the flawed MUD players), it's no surprise when one or two guys being out of the lineup sends your season into a tailspin. What's funny is that people cling to the 4-6 weeks we played good basketball as the true indicator of and ignore the early portion of the season AND when LeBron and most of the lineup (sans Ball) was back in February with the playoffs still within reach and we were still getting run out of the gym. There's little evidence to believe that the team in December was much more than an outlier.


One could argue that we needed time to gel and learn how to play with each other and that's when things started to fit and our record was good. Sure, injuries happen but you can't replace a Lebron with a sub no matter how you construct your team. It's the anti-Magic crowd who believe that anything we did well was by luck, and everything that went wrong was meant to be.


It's one thing to lose more than you would without your best player. It's an entirely different thing for your team to fall apart. Indiana hasn't had Oladipo since January. And while they've fallen in the standings, they haven't fallen apart. There's nothing anti-Magic about saying he constructed a roster with little margin for error because he signed no shooters and had us depending on a career 10 mpg C to anchor the court. It's acknowleding reality.


Indy has done quite well without him but there’s a huge difference between losing a player like Lebron to Olapido. Once PG was off the table, we punted and needed to fill the roster with whatever quality players we could sign on 1 year deals. We were never going to win a title this year but we would’ve been quite competitive. Let’s see what happens this summer... if sign KL or any of the top tier FA, then it was all worth it.
Besides complaining, what other solutions do you have that could’ve kept another max slot open this summer while trying to stay competitive this year?


This is the problem. Someone who thinks you need to "keep max slots" open a year in advance is running our organization. It's okay for a fan to think this, but when your GM thinks it, it's a disaster.
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PostPosted: Sun Apr 07, 2019 7:49 pm    Post subject:

The thing about an organisation embracing tanking is losing becoming somehow acceptable, becomes part of the culture, excuse making dominates, and a winners psyche becomes an elusive holy grail. The current state of the Lakers reminds me a lot of the Dallas Cowboys of the past 2 decades - still trying to learn what it means to be a winner again...
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PostPosted: Sun Apr 07, 2019 8:41 pm    Post subject:

At the Lakers current pace (6-3) *after being eliminated from the playoffs*, the Lakers could have won 55 games across a whole season. What does that tell you about these kind of projections?
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PostPosted: Sun Apr 07, 2019 8:46 pm    Post subject:

pjiddy wrote:
55 wrote:
KBH wrote:
55 wrote:
KBH wrote:
55 wrote:
tony wrote:
Everyone blames injuries but injuries are apart of the game. Fact of the matter is our roster was not put together to the strengths of our best player, they made questionable trades, and we (bleep) the bed on games we should've won that led to our downfall.


Were you saying that while we were in 4th place or after the injuries piled on?


I thought this team had a flawed roster with little margin for error even before the injuries. Fact of the matter is that injuries happen and this clearly wasn't a team with a large margin for error. There were signs of this disaster early when we started 2-5 and turned things around after getting Chandler. If your team is dependent on McGee who is a career 10 mpg guy, Chandler at 41 (not to mention the flawed MUD players), it's no surprise when one or two guys being out of the lineup sends your season into a tailspin. What's funny is that people cling to the 4-6 weeks we played good basketball as the true indicator of and ignore the early portion of the season AND when LeBron and most of the lineup (sans Ball) was back in February with the playoffs still within reach and we were still getting run out of the gym. There's little evidence to believe that the team in December was much more than an outlier.


One could argue that we needed time to gel and learn how to play with each other and that's when things started to fit and our record was good. Sure, injuries happen but you can't replace a Lebron with a sub no matter how you construct your team. It's the anti-Magic crowd who believe that anything we did well was by luck, and everything that went wrong was meant to be.


It's one thing to lose more than you would without your best player. It's an entirely different thing for your team to fall apart. Indiana hasn't had Oladipo since January. And while they've fallen in the standings, they haven't fallen apart. There's nothing anti-Magic about saying he constructed a roster with little margin for error because he signed no shooters and had us depending on a career 10 mpg C to anchor the court. It's acknowleding reality.


Indy has done quite well without him but there’s a huge difference between losing a player like Lebron to Olapido. Once PG was off the table, we punted and needed to fill the roster with whatever quality players we could sign on 1 year deals. We were never going to win a title this year but we would’ve been quite competitive. Let’s see what happens this summer... if sign KL or any of the top tier FA, then it was all worth it.
Besides complaining, what other solutions do you have that could’ve kept another max slot open this summer while trying to stay competitive this year?


This is the problem. Someone who thinks you need to "keep max slots" open a year in advance is running our organization. It's okay for a fan to think this, but when your GM thinks it, it's a disaster.


You rather waste a max slot for middle of the pack players and become a middle of the pack team. Management is going for a championship, no ifs ands or buts about it.
From your post history, if we’d lose a game 7 in the Finals you’ll blame Magic.
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PostPosted: Sun Apr 07, 2019 8:51 pm    Post subject:

55 wrote:

Besides complaining, what other solutions do you have that could’ve kept another max slot open this summer while trying to stay competitive this year?


- Brook Lopez

- Seth Curry

- Don't trade Zubac

Lopez/Curry would have helped on 3pt shooting.

Not trading zubac might have prevented the clipper's run.
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PostPosted: Sun Apr 07, 2019 9:01 pm    Post subject:

dabask11 wrote:
55 wrote:

Besides complaining, what other solutions do you have that could’ve kept another max slot open this summer while trying to stay competitive this year?


- Brook Lopez

- Seth Curry

- Don't trade Zubac

Lopez/Curry would have helped on 3pt shooting.

Not trading zubac might have prevented the clipper's run.


- Was Brook okay with taking a 1 year deal?
- I wanted Curry as well.
- Not sure what the heck the Zubac trade was for but it was horrible in my opinion. But that's not a summer signing which is the point of the topic.
- I'm not concerned with the Clipper's run, makes no difference on our season.
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PostPosted: Sun Apr 07, 2019 9:14 pm    Post subject:

55 wrote:

You rather waste a max slot for middle of the pack players and become a middle of the pack team. Management is going for a championship, no ifs ands or buts about it.
From your post history, if we’d lose a game 7 in the Finals you’ll blame Magic.


Again, this is the problem. Thinking that you need to "keep a max slot open" a year in advance. The Clippers waited until the trade deadline to open more cap space for this season. They waited until that time to decide if Tobias was someone they wanted to bring back next year and whether this team's playoff potential was worth picking up better long-term assets (Shamet, two first rounders) and having more cap space this offseason. Morey was able to open cap space for Chris Bosh in a span of 24 hours.

A good GM could've resigned Randle and given out multi-year deals to GOOD players and then trade them at the deadline for actual assets, or even waited until the offseason, see if a star actually wants to come here, and if he had to, dump them for nothing. Randle could've at least netted a 2nd rounder. What if instead of giving Rondo 1/9 they gave Joe Harris 2/18 (he went to Nets for 2/16)? Easily could've moved him for a pick. Hell, they could've used Svi and the future 2nd rounder Magic traded for a rental of Bullock to dump guys if you want to play the make-believe "nobody wants to help the Lakers" game.

But we don't have a good GM. So we sign garbage players that don't help us win in the name of "keeping cap space open for next year."
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PostPosted: Sun Apr 07, 2019 9:19 pm    Post subject:

55 wrote:
dabask11 wrote:
55 wrote:

Besides complaining, what other solutions do you have that could’ve kept another max slot open this summer while trying to stay competitive this year?


- Brook Lopez

- Seth Curry

- Don't trade Zubac

Lopez/Curry would have helped on 3pt shooting.

Not trading zubac might have prevented the clipper's run.


- Was Brook okay with taking a 1 year deal?
- I wanted Curry as well.
- Not sure what the heck the Zubac trade was for but it was horrible in my opinion. But that's not a summer signing which is the point of the topic.
- I'm not concerned with the Clipper's run, makes no difference on our season.


- Given he took a 1 year deal for milwaukee and was puzzled why the lakers didn't make a better effort to resign him, the answer to that question is obvious.

https://www.lakersnation.com/brook-lopez-surprised-lakers-effort-re-sign-free-agency/2019/03/01/

- The zubac trade was more in reference to the "solutions" portion I quoted above. Sometimes the best way to solve a problem is not to create one. The zu trade foolishly created a need while strengthening a rival in the process. If the clippers didn't go on their run then maybe we're still competitive by fighting for their playoff spot instead of giving up before the season ended.
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PostPosted: Tue Apr 09, 2019 10:48 am    Post subject:

Championship next year
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PostPosted: Tue Apr 09, 2019 10:58 am    Post subject:

This team had a chance to get to the playoffs and we lost against teams like the Hawks, Pelicans, and Suns with LeBron playing.
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PostPosted: Tue Apr 09, 2019 11:00 am    Post subject:

The issue is that Lonzo has missed 30+ games 2 years in a row.

BI has missed 20+ games 2 years in a row.

LBJ is getting older and had his worst career injury.
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PostPosted: Tue Apr 09, 2019 11:21 am    Post subject:

Aeneas Hunter wrote:
I've posted the injury stats before. As of March 1, we had a typical level of injuries for an NBA team, even factoring in the production levels of the specific players. We did not have extraordinary injuries. Just typical. And we were already done.

So sure, if we had an injury-free year, we were almost certain to make the playoffs. So what? As of March 1, we had a typical level of injuries, and we were done. Injuries are relevant, but they are no excuse for poor roster construction.


Source?
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PostPosted: Tue Apr 09, 2019 12:50 pm    Post subject: Re: LAL’s Core only played 23 Games Together - Were on Pace for 53 Wins

Lonzo-Lite wrote:
Saw this on last nights Access Sportsnet.

LeBron, Kuzma, Ingram, Ball only played 23 games together.

They were ranked 4th in defense, 7th in offense, and were on pace to win 53 games this season which would’ve been good for at least 3rd seed in West.

Crazy how the injury bug has hit us hard this season.


Thanks for the post...youre 100% right. That's why I'm optimistic in the off season, even if we just add Butler as the 2nd star. Then round out the roster with a few more shooters and a decent big to go with McGee.
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PostPosted: Tue Apr 09, 2019 12:52 pm    Post subject:

55 wrote:
KBH wrote:
55 wrote:
KBH wrote:
55 wrote:
tony wrote:
Everyone blames injuries but injuries are apart of the game. Fact of the matter is our roster was not put together to the strengths of our best player, they made questionable trades, and we (bleep) the bed on games we should've won that led to our downfall.


Were you saying that while we were in 4th place or after the injuries piled on?


I thought this team had a flawed roster with little margin for error even before the injuries. Fact of the matter is that injuries happen and this clearly wasn't a team with a large margin for error. There were signs of this disaster early when we started 2-5 and turned things around after getting Chandler. If your team is dependent on McGee who is a career 10 mpg guy, Chandler at 41 (not to mention the flawed MUD players), it's no surprise when one or two guys being out of the lineup sends your season into a tailspin. What's funny is that people cling to the 4-6 weeks we played good basketball as the true indicator of and ignore the early portion of the season AND when LeBron and most of the lineup (sans Ball) was back in February with the playoffs still within reach and we were still getting run out of the gym. There's little evidence to believe that the team in December was much more than an outlier.


One could argue that we needed time to gel and learn how to play with each other and that's when things started to fit and our record was good. Sure, injuries happen but you can't replace a Lebron with a sub no matter how you construct your team. It's the anti-Magic crowd who believe that anything we did well was by luck, and everything that went wrong was meant to be.


It's one thing to lose more than you would without your best player. It's an entirely different thing for your team to fall apart. Indiana hasn't had Oladipo since January. And while they've fallen in the standings, they haven't fallen apart. There's nothing anti-Magic about saying he constructed a roster with little margin for error because he signed no shooters and had us depending on a career 10 mpg C to anchor the court. It's acknowleding reality.


Indy has done quite well without him but there’s a huge difference between losing a player like Lebron to Olapido. Once PG was off the table, we punted and needed to fill the roster with whatever quality players we could sign on 1 year deals. We were never going to win a title this year but we would’ve been quite competitive. Let’s see what happens this summer... if sign KL or any of the top tier FA, then it was all worth it.
Besides complaining, what other solutions do you have that could’ve kept another max slot open this summer while trying to stay competitive this year?


If there's such a huge difference between Oladipo and and LeBron (and I agree there is), then making your team's entire existence about preserving cap space a year in advance at the expense of team building shouldn't be as necessary. That said, what the Lakers could have done other than signing MUD has been discussed while preserving cap space next year has been discussed on the board ad nauseum on this board. Namely, sign Brook Lopez to the same deal he got from the Bucks, give Julius Randle (for a big one year tender) the money you gave KCP and Rondo, and bring in a shooter instead of Lance/Beasley so you don't have to trade Zubac. None of this seems that farfetched to me and you'd maintain more team continuity and chemistry by having more guys who have played together.


Last edited by KBH on Tue Apr 09, 2019 12:53 pm; edited 1 time in total
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King Randle
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PostPosted: Tue Apr 09, 2019 12:53 pm    Post subject:

yinoma2001 wrote:
The issue is that Lonzo has missed 30+ games 2 years in a row.

BI has missed 20+ games 2 years in a row.

LBJ is getting older and had his worst career injury.


Injuries definitely have to improve. Ball and BI have to play 70 games at least...LBJ takes really good care of his body so I'm not so concerned about him. With his injury, he basically did the splits....you could be 20 and the injury would've been the same.
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