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venturalakersfan Retired Number
Joined: 14 Apr 2001 Posts: 144432 Location: The Gold Coast
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Posted: Sun Jul 14, 2019 5:35 pm Post subject: |
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I was hanging out with a buddy on Saturday and one of his former college teammates who has been in the Giant organization for over 20 years. We were talking about Friday night’s Angels game and the Giants rep said that he wouldn’t be surprised if when it’s all said and done, Trout will be considered the best player of this generation (no surprise) and that the second best could be Ohtany (big surprise). _________________ RIP mom. 11-21-1933 to 6-14-2023. |
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ChickenStu Retired Number
Joined: 25 Apr 2015 Posts: 31789 Location: Anaheim, CA
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Posted: Sun Jul 14, 2019 6:06 pm Post subject: |
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venturalakersfan wrote: | I was hanging out with a buddy on Saturday and one of his former college teammates who has been in the Giant organization for over 20 years. We were talking about Friday night’s Angels game and the Giants rep said that he wouldn’t be surprised if when it’s all said and done, Trout will be considered the best player of this generation (no surprise) and that the second best could be Ohtany (big surprise). |
Given how great Ohtani has been as a hitter, if he can get back to being a #2-type starter, the value he brings a team is unbelievable. He'll be a perennial MVP candidate if he can pitch 120-150 quality innings a year and if he continues to hit as he has. |
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adkindo Retired Number
Joined: 16 Jun 2005 Posts: 40345 Location: Dirty South
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Posted: Sun Jul 14, 2019 6:21 pm Post subject: |
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ChickenStu wrote: | venturalakersfan wrote: | I was hanging out with a buddy on Saturday and one of his former college teammates who has been in the Giant organization for over 20 years. We were talking about Friday night’s Angels game and the Giants rep said that he wouldn’t be surprised if when it’s all said and done, Trout will be considered the best player of this generation (no surprise) and that the second best could be Ohtany (big surprise). |
Given how great Ohtani has been as a hitter, if he can get back to being a #2-type starter, the value he brings a team is unbelievable. He'll be a perennial MVP candidate if he can pitch 120-150 quality innings a year and if he continues to hit as he has. |
I saw you post recently that Trout was the best you have ever seen....that surprised me. We are of similar age, and I would not place him at that level, but I do admit because he plays on the West Coast for a team that does not get the attention of the Dodgers or Giants, his publicity is fairly muted on the East Coast. |
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adkindo Retired Number
Joined: 16 Jun 2005 Posts: 40345 Location: Dirty South
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Posted: Sat Jul 20, 2019 2:41 pm Post subject: |
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well it was fun while it lasted, but it appears the Reds season has reached it's conclusion....I would expect them to become sellers this week. The Reds have a history of not moving expiring assets, then allowing them to walk for nothing, so it will be interesting.
I would assume they will be open to moving....
- Yasiel Puig (RF)
- Jose Iglesias (SS)
- Scooter Gennett (2B)
- Anthony DeSclafani (SP)
- Jared Hughes (RP)
- Raisel Iglesias (RP)
- Tanner Roark (SP)
- Wandy Peralta (RP)
- Robert Stephenson (RP)
- Derek Dietrich (2B/OF)
- Tucker Barnhart (C) |
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jonnybravo Retired Number
Joined: 21 Sep 2007 Posts: 30621
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Posted: Sat Jul 20, 2019 3:27 pm Post subject: |
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adkindo wrote: | ChickenStu wrote: | venturalakersfan wrote: | I was hanging out with a buddy on Saturday and one of his former college teammates who has been in the Giant organization for over 20 years. We were talking about Friday night’s Angels game and the Giants rep said that he wouldn’t be surprised if when it’s all said and done, Trout will be considered the best player of this generation (no surprise) and that the second best could be Ohtany (big surprise). |
Given how great Ohtani has been as a hitter, if he can get back to being a #2-type starter, the value he brings a team is unbelievable. He'll be a perennial MVP candidate if he can pitch 120-150 quality innings a year and if he continues to hit as he has. |
I saw you post recently that Trout was the best you have ever seen....that surprised me. We are of similar age, and I would not place him at that level, but I do admit because he plays on the West Coast for a team that does not get the attention of the Dodgers or Giants, his publicity is fairly muted on the East Coast. |
The only (grossly unfair) knock on Trout is his lack of post-season success. Anyone that follows baseball knows that it's an individual sport masquerading as a team sport. That said, other all-stars have CAREER years that would amount to just another year for Trout. Year in and year out, he's at worse top 3 in the MVP discussion. He's had 2 MVP's that were stolen from him. He checks every box and at darn near all-time level. The eye test, the box score #'s, the advanced metrics...guys firmly in the GOAT discussion even this "early".
Look at the off-season. I know there were a lot of Dodgers fans that wanted Machado or Bryce but I was staunchly against both. Those two were the biggest free agents available and commanded 300+ M contracts. Machado's best season doesn't even sniff Trout's worse. Bryce's career, MVP year would be one of Trout's better than average but not quite best year.
I mean when your worse years stack up to the best years from fellow all-stars...
Trout and Ohtani should be Dodgers. _________________ KOBE |
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ChickenStu Retired Number
Joined: 25 Apr 2015 Posts: 31789 Location: Anaheim, CA
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Posted: Sat Jul 20, 2019 10:47 pm Post subject: |
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jonnybravo wrote: | adkindo wrote: | ChickenStu wrote: | venturalakersfan wrote: | I was hanging out with a buddy on Saturday and one of his former college teammates who has been in the Giant organization for over 20 years. We were talking about Friday night’s Angels game and the Giants rep said that he wouldn’t be surprised if when it’s all said and done, Trout will be considered the best player of this generation (no surprise) and that the second best could be Ohtany (big surprise). |
Given how great Ohtani has been as a hitter, if he can get back to being a #2-type starter, the value he brings a team is unbelievable. He'll be a perennial MVP candidate if he can pitch 120-150 quality innings a year and if he continues to hit as he has. |
I saw you post recently that Trout was the best you have ever seen....that surprised me. We are of similar age, and I would not place him at that level, but I do admit because he plays on the West Coast for a team that does not get the attention of the Dodgers or Giants, his publicity is fairly muted on the East Coast. |
The only (grossly unfair) knock on Trout is his lack of post-season success. Anyone that follows baseball knows that it's an individual sport masquerading as a team sport. That said, other all-stars have CAREER years that would amount to just another year for Trout. Year in and year out, he's at worse top 3 in the MVP discussion. He's had 2 MVP's that were stolen from him. He checks every box and at darn near all-time level. The eye test, the box score #'s, the advanced metrics...guys firmly in the GOAT discussion even this "early".
Look at the off-season. I know there were a lot of Dodgers fans that wanted Machado or Bryce but I was staunchly against both. Those two were the biggest free agents available and commanded 300+ M contracts. Machado's best season doesn't even sniff Trout's worse. Bryce's career, MVP year would be one of Trout's better than average but not quite best year.
I mean when your worse years stack up to the best years from fellow all-stars...
Trout and Ohtani should be Dodgers. |
The Dodgers just couldn't compete with the AL (which has the DH) for Shohei. Teams just weren't going to let him be a position player on the days that he wasn't pitching (that includes the Angels), so yeah, the Dodgers just didn't have a realistic shot there. As for Trout, yes, he's the best I've ever seen, and he gets the slight nod from me over Barry Bonds. (Bonds was already great before he roided up, and I actually think that Trout might have more natural power than Bonds did, while Trout is showing the type of plate discipline that Bonds was known for, though I'd still give Bonds the slight edge there, although Bonds' OBP with the Pirates was lower than that of Trout so far in his career.) The only very slight knock on Trout for the first 2-3 years of his career was that he didn't have the best arm out in center field. Well, he worked hard to improve that, and now he throws lasers out there. He's just a natural at everything he does. Has all the proverbial tools, and all this with a keen eye at the plate.
Oh, and Trout is also an exceptional human being off the field. Love that guy. |
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jonnybravo Retired Number
Joined: 21 Sep 2007 Posts: 30621
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Posted: Sat Jul 20, 2019 11:22 pm Post subject: |
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ChickenStu wrote: | jonnybravo wrote: | adkindo wrote: | ChickenStu wrote: | venturalakersfan wrote: | I was hanging out with a buddy on Saturday and one of his former college teammates who has been in the Giant organization for over 20 years. We were talking about Friday night’s Angels game and the Giants rep said that he wouldn’t be surprised if when it’s all said and done, Trout will be considered the best player of this generation (no surprise) and that the second best could be Ohtany (big surprise). |
Given how great Ohtani has been as a hitter, if he can get back to being a #2-type starter, the value he brings a team is unbelievable. He'll be a perennial MVP candidate if he can pitch 120-150 quality innings a year and if he continues to hit as he has. |
I saw you post recently that Trout was the best you have ever seen....that surprised me. We are of similar age, and I would not place him at that level, but I do admit because he plays on the West Coast for a team that does not get the attention of the Dodgers or Giants, his publicity is fairly muted on the East Coast. |
The only (grossly unfair) knock on Trout is his lack of post-season success. Anyone that follows baseball knows that it's an individual sport masquerading as a team sport. That said, other all-stars have CAREER years that would amount to just another year for Trout. Year in and year out, he's at worse top 3 in the MVP discussion. He's had 2 MVP's that were stolen from him. He checks every box and at darn near all-time level. The eye test, the box score #'s, the advanced metrics...guys firmly in the GOAT discussion even this "early".
Look at the off-season. I know there were a lot of Dodgers fans that wanted Machado or Bryce but I was staunchly against both. Those two were the biggest free agents available and commanded 300+ M contracts. Machado's best season doesn't even sniff Trout's worse. Bryce's career, MVP year would be one of Trout's better than average but not quite best year.
I mean when your worse years stack up to the best years from fellow all-stars...
Trout and Ohtani should be Dodgers. |
The Dodgers just couldn't compete with the AL (which has the DH) for Shohei. Teams just weren't going to let him be a position player on the days that he wasn't pitching (that includes the Angels), so yeah, the Dodgers just didn't have a realistic shot there. As for Trout, yes, he's the best I've ever seen, and he gets the slight nod from me over Barry Bonds. (Bonds was already great before he roided up, and I actually think that Trout might have more natural power than Bonds did, while Trout is showing the type of plate discipline that Bonds was known for, though I'd still give Bonds the slight edge there, although Bonds' OBP with the Pirates was lower than that of Trout so far in his career.) The only very slight knock on Trout for the first 2-3 years of his career was that he didn't have the best arm out in center field. Well, he worked hard to improve that, and now he throws lasers out there. He's just a natural at everything he does. Has all the proverbial tools, and all this with a keen eye at the plate.
Oh, and Trout is also an exceptional human being off the field. Love that guy. |
Lol, no doubt. I treat the Dodgers like I do the Lakers. A 100% belief that we deserve the best players in the league. It's just right... _________________ KOBE |
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venturalakersfan Retired Number
Joined: 14 Apr 2001 Posts: 144432 Location: The Gold Coast
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Posted: Sun Jul 21, 2019 9:30 am Post subject: |
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adkindo wrote: | ChickenStu wrote: | venturalakersfan wrote: | I was hanging out with a buddy on Saturday and one of his former college teammates who has been in the Giant organization for over 20 years. We were talking about Friday night’s Angels game and the Giants rep said that he wouldn’t be surprised if when it’s all said and done, Trout will be considered the best player of this generation (no surprise) and that the second best could be Ohtany (big surprise). |
Given how great Ohtani has been as a hitter, if he can get back to being a #2-type starter, the value he brings a team is unbelievable. He'll be a perennial MVP candidate if he can pitch 120-150 quality innings a year and if he continues to hit as he has. |
I saw you post recently that Trout was the best you have ever seen....that surprised me. We are of similar age, and I would not place him at that level, but I do admit because he plays on the West Coast for a team that does not get the attention of the Dodgers or Giants, his publicity is fairly muted on the East Coast. |
Pujols was but has been surpassed by Trout. _________________ RIP mom. 11-21-1933 to 6-14-2023. |
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ChickenStu Retired Number
Joined: 25 Apr 2015 Posts: 31789 Location: Anaheim, CA
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Posted: Sun Jul 21, 2019 12:12 pm Post subject: |
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venturalakersfan wrote: | adkindo wrote: | ChickenStu wrote: | venturalakersfan wrote: | I was hanging out with a buddy on Saturday and one of his former college teammates who has been in the Giant organization for over 20 years. We were talking about Friday night’s Angels game and the Giants rep said that he wouldn’t be surprised if when it’s all said and done, Trout will be considered the best player of this generation (no surprise) and that the second best could be Ohtany (big surprise). |
Given how great Ohtani has been as a hitter, if he can get back to being a #2-type starter, the value he brings a team is unbelievable. He'll be a perennial MVP candidate if he can pitch 120-150 quality innings a year and if he continues to hit as he has. |
I saw you post recently that Trout was the best you have ever seen....that surprised me. We are of similar age, and I would not place him at that level, but I do admit because he plays on the West Coast for a team that does not get the attention of the Dodgers or Giants, his publicity is fairly muted on the East Coast. |
Pujols was but has been surpassed by Trout. |
Albert was an amazing hitter in his prime. And actually ran the bases pretty well for a guy with average speed, too. But he obviously didn't have the same impact in the field that Trout does, or the same impact running the bases. |
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adkindo Retired Number
Joined: 16 Jun 2005 Posts: 40345 Location: Dirty South
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Posted: Sun Jul 21, 2019 12:17 pm Post subject: |
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ChickenStu wrote: | venturalakersfan wrote: | adkindo wrote: | ChickenStu wrote: | venturalakersfan wrote: | I was hanging out with a buddy on Saturday and one of his former college teammates who has been in the Giant organization for over 20 years. We were talking about Friday night’s Angels game and the Giants rep said that he wouldn’t be surprised if when it’s all said and done, Trout will be considered the best player of this generation (no surprise) and that the second best could be Ohtany (big surprise). |
Given how great Ohtani has been as a hitter, if he can get back to being a #2-type starter, the value he brings a team is unbelievable. He'll be a perennial MVP candidate if he can pitch 120-150 quality innings a year and if he continues to hit as he has. |
I saw you post recently that Trout was the best you have ever seen....that surprised me. We are of similar age, and I would not place him at that level, but I do admit because he plays on the West Coast for a team that does not get the attention of the Dodgers or Giants, his publicity is fairly muted on the East Coast. |
Pujols was but has been surpassed by Trout. |
Albert was an amazing hitter in his prime. And actually ran the bases pretty well for a guy with average speed, too. But he obviously didn't have the same impact in the field that Trout does, or the same impact running the bases. |
Bonds? |
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ChickenStu Retired Number
Joined: 25 Apr 2015 Posts: 31789 Location: Anaheim, CA
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Posted: Sun Jul 21, 2019 12:20 pm Post subject: |
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adkindo wrote: | ChickenStu wrote: | venturalakersfan wrote: | adkindo wrote: | ChickenStu wrote: | venturalakersfan wrote: | I was hanging out with a buddy on Saturday and one of his former college teammates who has been in the Giant organization for over 20 years. We were talking about Friday night’s Angels game and the Giants rep said that he wouldn’t be surprised if when it’s all said and done, Trout will be considered the best player of this generation (no surprise) and that the second best could be Ohtany (big surprise). |
Given how great Ohtani has been as a hitter, if he can get back to being a #2-type starter, the value he brings a team is unbelievable. He'll be a perennial MVP candidate if he can pitch 120-150 quality innings a year and if he continues to hit as he has. |
I saw you post recently that Trout was the best you have ever seen....that surprised me. We are of similar age, and I would not place him at that level, but I do admit because he plays on the West Coast for a team that does not get the attention of the Dodgers or Giants, his publicity is fairly muted on the East Coast. |
Pujols was but has been surpassed by Trout. |
Albert was an amazing hitter in his prime. And actually ran the bases pretty well for a guy with average speed, too. But he obviously didn't have the same impact in the field that Trout does, or the same impact running the bases. |
Bonds? |
Well as I said before, Bonds is the greatest player I had seen, before Trout. But Bonds didn't get superhuman until he roided up, and he also was never as good of an outfielder as Trout is. Bonds never had a good arm, which is a contrast from Trout, who worked hard at improving his arm strength on throws. |
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adkindo Retired Number
Joined: 16 Jun 2005 Posts: 40345 Location: Dirty South
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Posted: Sun Jul 21, 2019 12:43 pm Post subject: |
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ChickenStu wrote: | Well as I said before, Bonds is the greatest player I had seen, before Trout. But Bonds didn't get superhuman until he roided up, and he also was never as good of an outfielder as Trout is. Bonds never had a good arm, which is a contrast from Trout, who worked hard at improving his arm strength on throws. |
I was young(ish), but I recall Pirates Bonds being a very good fielder.....is my recollection failing me? Also, I know many real baseball fans hate the steroid stuff, but I always felt that fans associate too much of Bonds success to PED's. Sure they likely allowed him to have less injuries and recover quicker....they allowed him to hit the ball more distance....but PED's do nothing in helping a player hit a 98 MPH Fastball or breaking ball. Bonds is a 1st ballot HOF talent with or without the PED's.
My personal opinion about the PED era, the primary benefit for baseball players was pure confidence....more so than any physical benefit. |
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ChickenStu Retired Number
Joined: 25 Apr 2015 Posts: 31789 Location: Anaheim, CA
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Posted: Sun Jul 21, 2019 1:52 pm Post subject: |
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adkindo wrote: | ChickenStu wrote: | Well as I said before, Bonds is the greatest player I had seen, before Trout. But Bonds didn't get superhuman until he roided up, and he also was never as good of an outfielder as Trout is. Bonds never had a good arm, which is a contrast from Trout, who worked hard at improving his arm strength on throws. |
I was young(ish), but I recall Pirates Bonds being a very good fielder.....is my recollection failing me? Also, I know many real baseball fans hate the steroid stuff, but I always felt that fans associate too much of Bonds success to PED's. Sure they likely allowed him to have less injuries and recover quicker....they allowed him to hit the ball more distance....but PED's do nothing in helping a player hit a 98 MPH Fastball or breaking ball. Bonds is a 1st ballot HOF talent with or without the PED's.
My personal opinion about the PED era, the primary benefit for baseball players was pure confidence....more so than any physical benefit. |
Bonds was definitely a truly great player before the roids. But he became superhuman with them. Look at his OBP in his first 7 years with the Pirates, and then look at his absolutely insane numbers with the Giants. (He had a .388 OBP with the Pirates, which is well below Trout's current career OBP.) As for Bonds' fielding, yeah, he was a solid left fielder in terms of his quickness and read on balls and all that, at least before he got into his early 30's. But he never had a good arm, and that was evident on the final play of the '92 NLCS when he couldn't throw out Sid Bream at the plate.
Bonds always had a great eye. He was always a great player. But the roids made him so superhuman in terms of hitting home runs that pitchers began to hardly give him anything, and that's when his OBP skyrocketed. Again, I'm not trying to strip him of his greatness. Pitchers that Bonds was batting against were using, other hitters were using, etc. I'm just saying that he became a different player--took it to another level--on the roids. As far as we know, Trout has just been virtually the same dude for his career so far. Sure, he's gotten even better, but we haven't seen such an obvious spike in production like we did with Bonds. I just don't see where the weaknesses are with Trout as a player. He hits fastballs, he hits offspeed stuff, he can go the other way, he takes his walks, he runs the bases great, he steals bases, and he plays a great center field, which is a premium defensive position. |
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Aeneas Hunter Retired Number
Joined: 12 Jul 2005 Posts: 31763
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Posted: Mon Jul 22, 2019 5:41 am Post subject: |
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adkindo wrote: | I was young(ish), but I recall Pirates Bonds being a very good fielder.....is my recollection failing me? Also, I know many real baseball fans hate the steroid stuff, but I always felt that fans associate too much of Bonds success to PED's. Sure they likely allowed him to have less injuries and recover quicker....they allowed him to hit the ball more distance....but PED's do nothing in helping a player hit a 98 MPH Fastball or breaking ball. Bonds is a 1st ballot HOF talent with or without the PED's. |
Bonds was a good fielder, and in fact a Gold Glover, but he played left because he did not have a great arm.
I'm the opposite of you, in that I think fans underrate how much PEDs transformed Bonds' career. Sure, he was on a Hall of Fame trajectory, but the natural aging curve would have made him a top 50ish player. That's pretty good, but PEDs let him skip the aging curve. He was 36 when he hit 73 HRs. The result is that he rates as a top 10 player, if not top 5. That is rarefied air. He wasn't getting anywhere close to that level without the PEDs. |
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adkindo Retired Number
Joined: 16 Jun 2005 Posts: 40345 Location: Dirty South
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Posted: Mon Jul 22, 2019 5:55 am Post subject: |
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Aeneas Hunter wrote: | adkindo wrote: | I was young(ish), but I recall Pirates Bonds being a very good fielder.....is my recollection failing me? Also, I know many real baseball fans hate the steroid stuff, but I always felt that fans associate too much of Bonds success to PED's. Sure they likely allowed him to have less injuries and recover quicker....they allowed him to hit the ball more distance....but PED's do nothing in helping a player hit a 98 MPH Fastball or breaking ball. Bonds is a 1st ballot HOF talent with or without the PED's. |
Bonds was a good fielder, and in fact a Gold Glover, but he played left because he did not have a great arm.
I'm the opposite of you, in that I think fans underrate how much PEDs transformed Bonds' career. Sure, he was on a Hall of Fame trajectory, but the natural aging curve would have made him a top 50ish player. That's pretty good, but PEDs let him skip the aging curve. He was 36 when he hit 73 HRs. The result is that he rates as a top 10 player, if not top 5. That is rarefied air. He wasn't getting anywhere close to that level without the PEDs. |
that is a different angle that has merit.....Conte was doing a lot with HGH, IGF, SARMS, etc. which would be more beneficial in slowing aging and injury prevention. I think most fans focus more on the anabolic agents he was also likely taking, and that is where I think that fans that do not have experience with anabolic steroids overvalue their direct impact on athletic skill based performance compared to the indirect impact that elevated personal confidence has on performance. |
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LAkers 4 Life Franchise Player
Joined: 12 Apr 2001 Posts: 14629
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Posted: Tue Jul 23, 2019 9:19 am Post subject: |
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venturalakersfan wrote: | Pujols was but has been surpassed by Trout. |
Despite all of his known accolades, it feels like Pujols is vastly underrated by people outside of the baseball circles. It seems his greatness when he was with the cards is taken for granted, on and off the field, outside of st. louis. |
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Aeneas Hunter Retired Number
Joined: 12 Jul 2005 Posts: 31763
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Posted: Tue Jul 23, 2019 10:28 am Post subject: |
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LAkers 4 Life wrote: | venturalakersfan wrote: | Pujols was but has been surpassed by Trout. |
Despite all of his known accolades, it feels like Pujols is vastly underrated by people outside of the baseball circles. It seems his greatness when he was with the cards is taken for granted, on and off the field, outside of st. louis. |
I think Pujols' image was affected by that insane contract. Do you realize the contract still has two years to go, and then a 10-year personal services contract kicks in? At some level, for better or for worse, a lot of people will judge his performance based on that contract. |
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venturalakersfan Retired Number
Joined: 14 Apr 2001 Posts: 144432 Location: The Gold Coast
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Posted: Tue Jul 23, 2019 10:37 am Post subject: |
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ChickenStu wrote: | venturalakersfan wrote: | adkindo wrote: | ChickenStu wrote: | venturalakersfan wrote: | I was hanging out with a buddy on Saturday and one of his former college teammates who has been in the Giant organization for over 20 years. We were talking about Friday night’s Angels game and the Giants rep said that he wouldn’t be surprised if when it’s all said and done, Trout will be considered the best player of this generation (no surprise) and that the second best could be Ohtany (big surprise). |
Given how great Ohtani has been as a hitter, if he can get back to being a #2-type starter, the value he brings a team is unbelievable. He'll be a perennial MVP candidate if he can pitch 120-150 quality innings a year and if he continues to hit as he has. |
I saw you post recently that Trout was the best you have ever seen....that surprised me. We are of similar age, and I would not place him at that level, but I do admit because he plays on the West Coast for a team that does not get the attention of the Dodgers or Giants, his publicity is fairly muted on the East Coast. |
Pujols was but has been surpassed by Trout. |
Albert was an amazing hitter in his prime. And actually ran the bases pretty well for a guy with average speed, too. But he obviously didn't have the same impact in the field that Trout does, or the same impact running the bases. |
I remember when the Cards traded Fernando Tatis in the offseason, who was going to play 3rd? Management said that they were going to bring up this Pujols kid until they could come up with something else and send him back down. He was never sent down and eventually moved to first base. _________________ RIP mom. 11-21-1933 to 6-14-2023. |
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venturalakersfan Retired Number
Joined: 14 Apr 2001 Posts: 144432 Location: The Gold Coast
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Posted: Tue Jul 23, 2019 10:39 am Post subject: |
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ChickenStu wrote: | adkindo wrote: | ChickenStu wrote: | Well as I said before, Bonds is the greatest player I had seen, before Trout. But Bonds didn't get superhuman until he roided up, and he also was never as good of an outfielder as Trout is. Bonds never had a good arm, which is a contrast from Trout, who worked hard at improving his arm strength on throws. |
I was young(ish), but I recall Pirates Bonds being a very good fielder.....is my recollection failing me? Also, I know many real baseball fans hate the steroid stuff, but I always felt that fans associate too much of Bonds success to PED's. Sure they likely allowed him to have less injuries and recover quicker....they allowed him to hit the ball more distance....but PED's do nothing in helping a player hit a 98 MPH Fastball or breaking ball. Bonds is a 1st ballot HOF talent with or without the PED's.
My personal opinion about the PED era, the primary benefit for baseball players was pure confidence....more so than any physical benefit. |
Bonds was definitely a truly great player before the roids. But he became superhuman with them. Look at his OBP in his first 7 years with the Pirates, and then look at his absolutely insane numbers with the Giants. (He had a .388 OBP with the Pirates, which is well below Trout's current career OBP.) As for Bonds' fielding, yeah, he was a solid left fielder in terms of his quickness and read on balls and all that, at least before he got into his early 30's. But he never had a good arm, and that was evident on the final play of the '92 NLCS when he couldn't throw out Sid Bream at the plate.
Bonds always had a great eye. He was always a great player. But the roids made him so superhuman in terms of hitting home runs that pitchers began to hardly give him anything, and that's when his OBP skyrocketed. Again, I'm not trying to strip him of his greatness. Pitchers that Bonds was batting against were using, other hitters were using, etc. I'm just saying that he became a different player--took it to another level--on the roids. As far as we know, Trout has just been virtually the same dude for his career so far. Sure, he's gotten even better, but we haven't seen such an obvious spike in production like we did with Bonds. I just don't see where the weaknesses are with Trout as a player. He hits fastballs, he hits offspeed stuff, he can go the other way, he takes his walks, he runs the bases great, he steals bases, and he plays a great center field, which is a premium defensive position. |
Bonds was a first ballot HOFer before the PEDs. His pops was one of my favorites when he was in St. Louis. _________________ RIP mom. 11-21-1933 to 6-14-2023. |
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adkindo Retired Number
Joined: 16 Jun 2005 Posts: 40345 Location: Dirty South
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Posted: Thu Jul 25, 2019 10:33 am Post subject: |
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Quote: | Marc Topkin @TBTimes_Rays
BREAKING: #Rays Snell to undergo arthroscopic surgery to remove loose body in elbow. Not considered season ending, expected back in Sept. First reported by @TheAthleticMLB
2:15 PM · Jul 25, 2019 |
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LAkers 4 Life Franchise Player
Joined: 12 Apr 2001 Posts: 14629
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Posted: Thu Jul 25, 2019 10:45 am Post subject: |
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Aeneas Hunter wrote: | LAkers 4 Life wrote: | venturalakersfan wrote: | Pujols was but has been surpassed by Trout. |
Despite all of his known accolades, it feels like Pujols is vastly underrated by people outside of the baseball circles. It seems his greatness when he was with the cards is taken for granted, on and off the field, outside of st. louis. |
I think Pujols' image was affected by that insane contract. Do you realize the contract still has two years to go, and then a 10-year personal services contract kicks in? At some level, for better or for worse, a lot of people will judge his performance based on that contract. |
Wow. I completely forgot about the 10-year personal services aspect of that contract! That's just a bad contract all around long-term for the Angels. Don't blame Pujols one bit for that deal, that's even better than the ones A-Rod had gotten. |
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adkindo Retired Number
Joined: 16 Jun 2005 Posts: 40345 Location: Dirty South
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Posted: Sun Jul 28, 2019 1:58 pm Post subject: |
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Quote: | Jon Morosi
@jonmorosi
Source: #Mets close to acquiring Marcus Stroman. @MLB @MLBNetwork
5:49 PM · Jul 28, 2019 |
Quote: | Jon Morosi
@jonmorosi
Source: #BlueJays, #Mets in agreement on Marcus Stroman trade, pending exchange of medical information. @MLB @MLBNetwork
5:50 PM · Jul 28, 2019 |
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adkindo Retired Number
Joined: 16 Jun 2005 Posts: 40345 Location: Dirty South
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Posted: Sun Jul 28, 2019 2:00 pm Post subject: |
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Quote: | Pat Malacaro
@PatWGR
Hugs and handshakes in the #Bisons dugout for Bo Bichette as he has been removed from the game in the bottom of the 3rd inning. #BlueJays
5:53 PM · Jul 28, 2019 |
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adkindo Retired Number
Joined: 16 Jun 2005 Posts: 40345 Location: Dirty South
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Posted: Sun Jul 28, 2019 2:01 pm Post subject: |
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feels like deadline moves have started.... |
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jonnybravo Retired Number
Joined: 21 Sep 2007 Posts: 30621
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Posted: Sun Jul 28, 2019 2:57 pm Post subject: |
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Aeneas Hunter wrote: | LAkers 4 Life wrote: | venturalakersfan wrote: | Pujols was but has been surpassed by Trout. |
Despite all of his known accolades, it feels like Pujols is vastly underrated by people outside of the baseball circles. It seems his greatness when he was with the cards is taken for granted, on and off the field, outside of st. louis. |
I think Pujols' image was affected by that insane contract. Do you realize the contract still has two years to go, and then a 10-year personal services contract kicks in? At some level, for better or for worse, a lot of people will judge his performance based on that contract. |
That contract was a part of it I'm sure. As far as I remember, he was widely considered the best player of the 2000s. _________________ KOBE |
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