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Buck32
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PostPosted: Sat Feb 15, 2020 8:13 am    Post subject:

Just more reason to hate Altuve more. I hope they, especially him, get it from pitchers everywhere.
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PostPosted: Sat Feb 15, 2020 10:47 am    Post subject:

Surfitall wrote:
The Washington Post: Baseball wanted accountability and remorse from the Astros. That didn't happen.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/sports/2020/02/13/baseball-wanted-accountability-remorse-astros-that-didnt-happen/


That actually is what happened. Focus on the player interviews after the presser.
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PostPosted: Sat Feb 15, 2020 10:50 am    Post subject:

eddiejonze wrote:
Dodgers Bellinger thinks Altuve stole MVP from Judge:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i9acHgEHtUU
My man.


Correa responded. He said Altuve was one of players that didn’t cheat, said you can ask Fiers and he would confirm, then he told Bellinger to STFU and called him out for his horrible World Series play.

No punches pulled ....

https://theathletic.com/1610301/2020/02/15/rosenthal-carlos-correa-rips-bellinger-passionately-defends-altuve-and-says-the-astros-deserve-their-2017-title/
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PostPosted: Sat Feb 15, 2020 10:55 am    Post subject:

Dreamshake wrote:
Surfitall wrote:
The Washington Post: Baseball wanted accountability and remorse from the Astros. That didn't happen.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/sports/2020/02/13/baseball-wanted-accountability-remorse-astros-that-didnt-happen/


That actually is what happened. Focus on the player interviews after the presser.


Read the article. It’s what it’s actually about.
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Dreamshake
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PostPosted: Sat Feb 15, 2020 11:12 am    Post subject:

Surfitall wrote:
Dreamshake wrote:
Surfitall wrote:
The Washington Post: Baseball wanted accountability and remorse from the Astros. That didn't happen.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/sports/2020/02/13/baseball-wanted-accountability-remorse-astros-that-didnt-happen/


That actually is what happened. Focus on the player interviews after the presser.


Read the article. It’s what it’s actually about.


I read the article. It clearly conflicts with some of the interviews players gave later. Look up Correa for example. He was very apologetic. Said it gave them an advantage. Etc.
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LongBeachPoly
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PostPosted: Sat Feb 15, 2020 11:42 am    Post subject:

Dreamshake wrote:
I read the article. It clearly conflicts with some of the interviews players gave later. Look up Correa for example. He was very apologetic. Said it gave them an advantage. Etc.


Dreamshake wrote:
eddiejonze wrote:
Dodgers Bellinger thinks Altuve stole MVP from Judge:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i9acHgEHtUU
My man.


Correa responded. He said Altuve was one of players that didn’t cheat, said you can ask Fiers and he would confirm, then he told Bellinger to STFU and called him out for his horrible World Series play.

No punches pulled ....

https://theathletic.com/1610301/2020/02/15/rosenthal-carlos-correa-rips-bellinger-passionately-defends-altuve-and-says-the-astros-deserve-their-2017-title/


So Correa is sorry, says it gave them an advantage, but they still deserved the WS title and other players need to STFU?

Also, Altuve never cheated? Yet, Altuve had to apologize as well?

What am I missing?
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PostPosted: Sat Feb 15, 2020 11:49 am    Post subject:

LongBeachPoly wrote:
Dreamshake wrote:
I read the article. It clearly conflicts with some of the interviews players gave later. Look up Correa for example. He was very apologetic. Said it gave them an advantage. Etc.


Dreamshake wrote:
eddiejonze wrote:
Dodgers Bellinger thinks Altuve stole MVP from Judge:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i9acHgEHtUU
My man.


Correa responded. He said Altuve was one of players that didn’t cheat, said you can ask Fiers and he would confirm, then he told Bellinger to STFU and called him out for his horrible World Series play.

No punches pulled ....

https://theathletic.com/1610301/2020/02/15/rosenthal-carlos-correa-rips-bellinger-passionately-defends-altuve-and-says-the-astros-deserve-their-2017-title/


So Correa is sorry, says it gave them an advantage, but they still deserved the WS title and other players need to STFU?

Also, Altuve never cheated? Yet, Altuve had to apologize as well?

What am I missing?


Read the entire article. He says it gave them an advantage. He broke down the WS wins and explained/excused how they weren’t able to cheat due to sign complexity (not saying I believe him). He says Altuve took one for the team, and also named two other players who didn’t cheat. Claims you can ask Fiers and hear the same. Told players to STFU about 2018 and 2019, and to educate themselves on the investigation MLB did. Says they cheated in 2017.

But in general, the players were quite apologetic in their individual interviews. Though I don’t think any apology aside from “take my ring” will be good enough for the masses.
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LongBeachPoly
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PostPosted: Sat Feb 15, 2020 11:55 am    Post subject:

Dreamshake wrote:
LongBeachPoly wrote:
Dreamshake wrote:
I read the article. It clearly conflicts with some of the interviews players gave later. Look up Correa for example. He was very apologetic. Said it gave them an advantage. Etc.


Dreamshake wrote:
eddiejonze wrote:
Dodgers Bellinger thinks Altuve stole MVP from Judge:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i9acHgEHtUU
My man.


Correa responded. He said Altuve was one of players that didn’t cheat, said you can ask Fiers and he would confirm, then he told Bellinger to STFU and called him out for his horrible World Series play.

No punches pulled ....

https://theathletic.com/1610301/2020/02/15/rosenthal-carlos-correa-rips-bellinger-passionately-defends-altuve-and-says-the-astros-deserve-their-2017-title/


So Correa is sorry, says it gave them an advantage, but they still deserved the WS title and other players need to STFU?

Also, Altuve never cheated? Yet, Altuve had to apologize as well?

What am I missing?


Read the entire article. He says it gave them an advantage. He broke down the WS wins and explained/excused how they weren’t able to cheat due to sign complexity (not saying I believe him). He says Altuve took one for the team, and also named two other players who didn’t cheat. Claims you can ask Fiers and hear the same. Told players to STFU about 2018 and 2019, and to educate themselves on the investigation MLB did. Says they cheated in 2017.

But in general, the players were quite apologetic in their individual interviews. Though I don’t think any apology aside from “take my ring” will be good enough for the masses.


Yeah, I don't have a paid subscription to the Athletic. I don't know how any Astros player can call out another player. That seems pretty weird.

It's funny how the Astros are using the MLB investigation as now gospel truths.

Luthnow used the Manfred report to point out that he didn't cheat.
Crane used it to point out that he didn't know.
AJ Hinch used it to point out that he was actually against it.
Correa is now saying Altuve didn't cheat at all.

One thing seems certain. Every Astros seems to claim that the 2017 was deserved. Haven't heard one say that it was undeserved.
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PostPosted: Sat Feb 15, 2020 12:04 pm    Post subject:

LongBeachPoly wrote:

It's funny how the Astros are using the MLB investigation as now gospel truths.


If I told the truth in exchange for immunity then I would do the same. Sounds reasonable.

LongBeachPoly wrote:
Correa is now saying Altuve didn't cheat at all.


Correct, along with two other players. But they didn’t stop it.

LongBeachPoly wrote:
One thing seems certain. Every Astros seems to claim that the 2017 was deserved. Haven't heard one say that it was undeserved.


They all also claim the scheme wasn’t very effective in the playoffs, and is partly why they stopped doing it the following season. Maybe that’s why “they think” it was deserved. It could also be that they think they were cheating like everyone else, which is what the original story was originally about.
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LongBeachPoly
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PostPosted: Sat Feb 15, 2020 12:22 pm    Post subject:

Dreamshake wrote:
LongBeachPoly wrote:

It's funny how the Astros are using the MLB investigation as now gospel truths.


If I told the truth in exchange for immunity then I would do the same. Sounds reasonable.


Only if you believe that people always divulge everything when offered immunity.

For instance, the Manfred report says it was entirely player driven. However, according to Jared Diamond at the Wall Street Journal, the scheme was not entirely player-driven.

So which is correct?

The one with immunity right?
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lakersken80
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PostPosted: Sat Feb 15, 2020 12:31 pm    Post subject:

This is what happens when the punishment is light and the players feel like the rewards outweigh the consequences.
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PostPosted: Sat Feb 15, 2020 12:31 pm    Post subject:

Astros players admit to cheating, in order to appear dignified and honest. Yet they take no accountability and claim it didn't really affect their performance, i.e. we still deserve to be champions. That's a juvenile way to rationalize a wrong doing. Any rational observer can see through that blatant double standard.

Also, wholly wholesome of Correa for calling out Bellinger on his WS performance, when he and his team cheated in order to win that same WS.

No respect for the Astros or their players.
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PostPosted: Sat Feb 15, 2020 12:41 pm    Post subject:

LongBeachPoly wrote:
Only if you believe that people always divulge everything when offered immunity.


I believe that if you are going to confess and take all this heat for the season you won then it doesn’t make much sense to lie and put that immunity at risk in a season where you lost.
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lakersken80
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PostPosted: Sat Feb 15, 2020 12:44 pm    Post subject:

So we are supposed to believe he only cheated in 2017, the year they won the championship using those methods....but were clean in 2018 and 2019? Laughable.
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PostPosted: Sat Feb 15, 2020 12:50 pm    Post subject:

Vacate the title or put Pete rose in HOF
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LongBeachPoly
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PostPosted: Sat Feb 15, 2020 12:55 pm    Post subject:

Dreamshake wrote:
LongBeachPoly wrote:
Only if you believe that people always divulge everything when offered immunity.


I believe that if you are going to confess and take all this heat for the season you won then it doesn’t make much sense to lie and put that immunity at risk in a season where you lost.


Cool.

And that same theory applies in criminal cases. Yet, witnesses offered immunity lie all the time.
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PostPosted: Sat Feb 15, 2020 12:55 pm    Post subject:

Dreamshake, you're a good guy. Defending cheaters doesn't suit you.
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PostPosted: Sat Feb 15, 2020 12:59 pm    Post subject:

governator wrote:
Vacate the title or put Pete rose in HOF


If I'm Pete Rose I would give a call to a high powered law firm.
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PostPosted: Sat Feb 15, 2020 12:59 pm    Post subject:

lakersken80 wrote:
So we are supposed to believe he only cheated in 2017, the year they won the championship using those methods....but were clean in 2018 and 2019? Laughable.


Once a cheater, always a cheater. All we need to know about that organization and its players.
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PostPosted: Sat Feb 15, 2020 1:00 pm    Post subject:

LongBeachPoly wrote:
Dreamshake wrote:
LongBeachPoly wrote:
Only if you believe that people always divulge everything when offered immunity.


I believe that if you are going to confess and take all this heat for the season you won then it doesn’t make much sense to lie and put that immunity at risk in a season where you lost.


Cool.

And that same theory applies in criminal cases. Yet, witnesses offered immunity lie all the time.


Uh, the stakes are kinda different in criminal cases wouldn’t you say, either for you or those you tell on. Cmon now.

The players are getting killed. I just don’t see his lying about the other seasons benefits them. Folks still think they cheated in those years anyway.
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PostPosted: Sat Feb 15, 2020 1:01 pm    Post subject:

strong9 wrote:
Dreamshake, you're a good guy. Defending cheaters doesn't suit you.


I’m not defending what they did. They got busted and gotta pay the piper.
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PostPosted: Sat Feb 15, 2020 1:04 pm    Post subject:

LongBeachPoly

Full interview here:

https://youtu.be/KjYEJ8XSXto
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LongBeachPoly
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PostPosted: Sat Feb 15, 2020 1:04 pm    Post subject:

Dreamshake wrote:
LongBeachPoly wrote:
Dreamshake wrote:
LongBeachPoly wrote:
Only if you believe that people always divulge everything when offered immunity.


I believe that if you are going to confess and take all this heat for the season you won then it doesn’t make much sense to lie and put that immunity at risk in a season where you lost.


Cool.

And that same theory applies in criminal cases. Yet, witnesses offered immunity lie all the time.


Uh, the stakes are kinda different in criminal cases wouldn’t you say, either for you or those you tell on. Cmon now.

The players are getting killed. I just don’t see his lying about the other seasons benefits them. Folks still think they cheated in those years anyway.


So immunity only works in mlb is your point?

Did the Manfred report actually uncover anything new aside from what Mike Fiers pointed out?

Fiers pointed out trash can banging, monitors, and the 2017 season. That's what the Manfred report uncovered.

Buzzers, whistling, other seasons? Nope.

Did the players tell the truth about everything or did they tell the truth to what was already out there?


Last edited by LongBeachPoly on Sat Feb 15, 2020 1:07 pm; edited 1 time in total
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PostPosted: Sat Feb 15, 2020 1:05 pm    Post subject:

Dreamshake wrote:
LongBeachPoly wrote:
Dreamshake wrote:
LongBeachPoly wrote:
Only if you believe that people always divulge everything when offered immunity.


I believe that if you are going to confess and take all this heat for the season you won then it doesn’t make much sense to lie and put that immunity at risk in a season where you lost.


Cool.

And that same theory applies in criminal cases. Yet, witnesses offered immunity lie all the time.


Uh, the stakes are kinda different in criminal cases wouldn’t you say, either for you or those you tell on. Cmon now.

The players are getting killed. I just don’t see his lying about the other seasons benefits them. Folks still think they cheated in those years anyway.


Except human nature for those that cheat and lie is to deny, deny, deny until you have no choice. It's the same mentality that gets them to cheat in the first place. You don't develop character over night. You either have it or you don't, and clearly that organization fosters and supports those that don't. No reason for them to come clean other than integrity and we know where that discussion leads...
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Last edited by strong9 on Sat Feb 15, 2020 1:07 pm; edited 1 time in total
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PostPosted: Sat Feb 15, 2020 1:06 pm    Post subject:

LongBeachPoly wrote:
Dreamshake wrote:
LongBeachPoly wrote:
Dreamshake wrote:
LongBeachPoly wrote:
Only if you believe that people always divulge everything when offered immunity.


I believe that if you are going to confess and take all this heat for the season you won then it doesn’t make much sense to lie and put that immunity at risk in a season where you lost.


Cool.

And that same theory applies in criminal cases. Yet, witnesses offered immunity lie all the time.


Uh, the stakes are kinda different in criminal cases wouldn’t you say, either for you or those you tell on. Cmon now.

The players are getting killed. I just don’t see his lying about the other seasons benefits them. Folks still think they cheated in those years anyway.


So immunity only works in mlb is your point?


My initial point is I don’t see what the players have to gain by lying about seasons they lost when they already have immunity and will catch heat for when they won. Why do you think they would lie about future seasons? What is there to gain?

The second point is comparing this to any criminal case where you or someone you told on can go to jail is not a very good comparison. Kinda different from keeping you or someone else from behind bars.
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