Leaving Neverland
Goto page Previous  1, 2, 3 ... 13, 14, 15, 16  Next
 
Post new topic    LakersGround.net Forum Index -> Off Topic This topic is locked: you cannot edit posts or make replies.
View previous topic :: View next topic  
Author Message
RetroNikes
Star Player
Star Player


Joined: 06 Jun 2005
Posts: 6376

PostPosted: Wed Apr 03, 2019 5:04 pm    Post subject:

JerryMagicKobe wrote:

The Earth is flat.


You ignored every single post that shows James and Wade have lied, changed their story etc. So this doesn't surprise me.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Reply with quote
RetroNikes
Star Player
Star Player


Joined: 06 Jun 2005
Posts: 6376

PostPosted: Wed Apr 03, 2019 5:17 pm    Post subject:

jodeke wrote:
Circumstantial evidence is so overwhelming in the case of Michael it's difficult to believe he's not a pedophile. If you can name another person, celebrity or other that sleeps with young children not his own and is not considered a pedophile I'll revisit my position on Michael.


It's not.

He stated that he has slept in the same bed with a few while many other kids were jammed in the bed.

Only accusers that have "come forward" have lied. It's not just one or two lies, there were many.

The reasons for lying is obvious, but I've seen people excuse their lies due to foggy memory and a result of child abuse.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Reply with quote
JerryMagicKobe
Moderator
Moderator


Joined: 28 Jul 2005
Posts: 15100

PostPosted: Wed Apr 03, 2019 5:40 pm    Post subject:

RetroNikes wrote:
JerryMagicKobe wrote:

The Earth is flat.


You ignored every single post that shows James and Wade have lied, changed their story etc. So this doesn't surprise me.

I didn't ignore your posts about James and Wade. I am not surprised that there are inconsistencies, and my opinion of Michael Jackson relies very little upon their statements.

I am interested in discussing Michael Jackson, but I have yet to hear anything to make me disagree with Dan Reed's assessment.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Reply with quote
RetroNikes
Star Player
Star Player


Joined: 06 Jun 2005
Posts: 6376

PostPosted: Wed Apr 03, 2019 5:47 pm    Post subject:

JerryMagicKobe wrote:
RetroNikes wrote:
JerryMagicKobe wrote:

The Earth is flat.


You ignored every single post that shows James and Wade have lied, changed their story etc. So this doesn't surprise me.

I didn't ignore your posts about James and Wade. I am not surprised that there are inconsistencies, and my opinion of Michael Jackson relies very little upon their statements.

I am interested in discussing Michael Jackson, but I have yet to hear anything to make me disagree with Dan Reed's assessment.


It relies heavily on the accusers who have lied.

Dan knows they have lied and that's why he keeps changing his story, too about what these accusers have said.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Reply with quote
jodeke
Retired Number
Retired Number


Joined: 17 Nov 2007
Posts: 67317
Location: In a world where admitting to not knowing something is considered a great way to learn.

PostPosted: Wed Apr 03, 2019 7:39 pm    Post subject:

RetroNikes wrote:
jodeke wrote:
Circumstantial evidence is so overwhelming in the case of Michael it's difficult to believe he's not a pedophile. If you can name another person, celebrity or other that sleeps with young children not his own and is not considered a pedophile I'll revisit my position on Michael.


It's not.

He stated that he has slept in the same bed with a few while many other kids were jammed in the bed.

Only accusers that have "come forward" have lied. It's not just one or two lies, there were many.

The reasons for lying is obvious, but I've seen people excuse their lies due to foggy memory and a result of child abuse.


IMO you're not looking at the evidence objectively, you're being subjective. You evidence Michael not sleeping with some children and eliminate his sleeping some children. It only takes 1 to be a pedophile.
_________________
Be who you are and say what you feel because those who mind don't matter and those who matter don't mind.

America will never be destroyed from the outside. If we falter and lose our freedoms, it will be because we destroyed ourselves.


Last edited by jodeke on Wed Apr 03, 2019 8:17 pm; edited 1 time in total
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Reply with quote
RetroNikes
Star Player
Star Player


Joined: 06 Jun 2005
Posts: 6376

PostPosted: Wed Apr 03, 2019 8:07 pm    Post subject:

jodeke wrote:
RetroNikes wrote:
jodeke wrote:
Circumstantial evidence is so overwhelming in the case of Michael it's difficult to believe he's not a pedophile. If you can name another person, celebrity or other that sleeps with young children not his own and is not considered a pedophile I'll revisit my position on Michael.


It's not.

He stated that he has slept in the same bed with a few while many other kids were jammed in the bed.

Only accusers that have "come forward" have lied. It's not just one or two lies, there were many.

The reasons for lying is obvious, but I've seen people excuse their lies due to foggy memory and a result of child abuse.


IMO you are not looking at the evidence objectively, you're being subjective. You evidence Michael not sleeping with some children and eliminate his sleeping some children. It only takes 1 to be a pedophile.


I'm looking at it objectively.

Not a single accuser is credible.

Not a single one.

- Jordan Chandler

Geraldine Hughes claims she was present when he tried to set up Michael Jackson. These accusations didn't come forward until his father demanded money. And these accusations allegedly happen when he was drugged up by his father. His father was caught on tape trying to extort money from MJ.

- Gavin Arvizo
Already covered. He never slept in the same bed with Michael Jackson, MJ slept on the floor. Michael Jackson thought something was up and wanted someone else to be in the room while the Arvizo brothers sleept in the same room with MJ.

- Wade Robson & James Safechuck.

These have already been covered now more evidence is coming out that they're lying about their alleged dates.

- Jacobshagen

Lied about events, changed his story, allegedly only met Michael once. Sold fake memorabilia, claimed to have a close relationship with the Jacksons when it was a complete lie.

Him being exposed on TV.

https://www.(bleep).com/video/9EpoE5b1euuw/?fbclid=IwAR34yZj_9VNR_U7vgFPkH2U6WLapCyAyQFS-lkkyNeSB7uV_1Dso0_27skA

- Youth Pastor (not sure which person this is)

Says he was touched inappropriately (tickled) above his jeans around his private area and needed therapy. In this therapy session, he admitted that him and his family wanted money.


So, where is this credible witness that makes their circumstantial evidence so overwhelming?

Child porn? No, never had any. Only some books that had a few images of naked children.
Book from a pedophile? That book was given to him by a fan "Boys will be boys" is what it's called.
Hush money? No, never paid hush money as the civil suit did not interfere with them testifying in a criminal case.
Alarm system? He had that installed after someone broke into his house and he saw her wandering around his house.


He allegedly slept in the same bed with other kids and they claimed no abuse happened. He wouldn't even talk about porn around them.


If you're a true victim of child abuse, there's no reason for you to lie about so many events that took place. They're caught in lies because the story they're telling is false and they're unable to create the perfect timeline in which these lies exist.

Yes, i'm looking at it objectively. I can't ignore the fact that these accusers are lying and then say to myself, "MJ slept in the bed so I'm going to ignore their lies and believe sleeping in the bed makes it very likely that he molested them."


Last edited by RetroNikes on Wed Apr 03, 2019 8:09 pm; edited 1 time in total
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Reply with quote
JerryMagicKobe
Moderator
Moderator


Joined: 28 Jul 2005
Posts: 15100

PostPosted: Wed Apr 03, 2019 8:09 pm    Post subject:

RetroNikes wrote:
JerryMagicKobe wrote:
RetroNikes wrote:
JerryMagicKobe wrote:

The Earth is flat.


You ignored every single post that shows James and Wade have lied, changed their story etc. So this doesn't surprise me.

I didn't ignore your posts about James and Wade. I am not surprised that there are inconsistencies, and my opinion of Michael Jackson relies very little upon their statements.

I am interested in discussing Michael Jackson, but I have yet to hear anything to make me disagree with Dan Reed's assessment.


It relies heavily on the accusers who have lied.

Dan knows they have lied and that's why he keeps changing his story, too about what these accusers have said.
My opinion does not rely heavily on the accusers or Dan Reed who I never heard of until mentioned by you.
I am interested in discussing Michael Jackson.
Do you want to start with his formative years?
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Reply with quote
jodeke
Retired Number
Retired Number


Joined: 17 Nov 2007
Posts: 67317
Location: In a world where admitting to not knowing something is considered a great way to learn.

PostPosted: Wed Apr 03, 2019 8:22 pm    Post subject:

RetroNikes wrote:
jodeke wrote:
RetroNikes wrote:
jodeke wrote:
Circumstantial evidence is so overwhelming in the case of Michael it's difficult to believe he's not a pedophile. If you can name another person, celebrity or other that sleeps with young children not his own and is not considered a pedophile I'll revisit my position on Michael.


It's not.

He stated that he has slept in the same bed with a few while many other kids were jammed in the bed.

Only accusers that have "come forward" have lied. It's not just one or two lies, there were many.

The reasons for lying is obvious, but I've seen people excuse their lies due to foggy memory and a result of child abuse.


IMO you are not looking at the evidence objectively, you're being subjective. You evidence Michael not sleeping with some children and eliminate his sleeping some children. It only takes 1 to be a pedophile.


I'm looking at it objectively.

Not a single accuser is credible.

Not a single one.

- Jordan Chandler

Geraldine Hughes claims she was present when he tried to set up Michael Jackson. These accusations didn't come forward until his father demanded money. And these accusations allegedly happen when he was drugged up by his father. His father was caught on tape trying to extort money from MJ.

- Gavin Arvizo
Already covered. He never slept in the same bed with Michael Jackson, MJ slept on the floor. Michael Jackson thought something was up and wanted someone else to be in the room while the Arvizo brothers sleept in the same room with MJ.

- Wade Robson & James Safechuck.

These have already been covered now more evidence is coming out that they're lying about their alleged dates.

- Jacobshagen

Lied about events, changed his story, allegedly only met Michael once. Sold fake memorabilia, claimed to have a close relationship with the Jacksons when it was a complete lie.

Him being exposed on TV.

https://www.(bleep).com/video/9EpoE5b1euuw/?fbclid=IwAR34yZj_9VNR_U7vgFPkH2U6WLapCyAyQFS-lkkyNeSB7uV_1Dso0_27skA

- Youth Pastor (not sure which person this is)

Says he was touched inappropriately (tickled) above his jeans around his private area and needed therapy. In this therapy session, he admitted that him and his family wanted money.


So, where is this credible witness that makes their circumstantial evidence so overwhelming?

Child porn? No, never had any. Only some books that had a few images of naked children.
Book from a pedophile? That book was given to him by a fan "Boys will be boys" is what it's called.
Hush money? No, never paid hush money as the civil suit did not interfere with them testifying in a criminal case.
Alarm system? He had that installed after someone broke into his house and he saw her wandering around his house.


He allegedly slept in the same bed with other kids and they claimed no abuse happened. He wouldn't even talk about porn around them.


If you're a true victim of child abuse, there's no reason for you to lie about so many events that took place. They're caught in lies because the story they're telling is false and they're unable to create the perfect timeline in which these lies exist.

Yes, i'm looking at it objectively. I can't ignore the fact that these accusers are lying and then say to myself, "MJ slept in the bed so I'm going to ignore their lies and believe sleeping in the bed makes it very likely that he molested them."

You're set in your beliefs. If all presented hasn't caused you to change your mind I don't think anything will. With that said I'm going to disengage. Have a blessed evening.
_________________
Be who you are and say what you feel because those who mind don't matter and those who matter don't mind.

America will never be destroyed from the outside. If we falter and lose our freedoms, it will be because we destroyed ourselves.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Reply with quote
RetroNikes
Star Player
Star Player


Joined: 06 Jun 2005
Posts: 6376

PostPosted: Wed Apr 03, 2019 8:25 pm    Post subject:

JerryMagicKobe wrote:
RetroNikes wrote:
JerryMagicKobe wrote:
RetroNikes wrote:
JerryMagicKobe wrote:

The Earth is flat.


You ignored every single post that shows James and Wade have lied, changed their story etc. So this doesn't surprise me.

I didn't ignore your posts about James and Wade. I am not surprised that there are inconsistencies, and my opinion of Michael Jackson relies very little upon their statements.

I am interested in discussing Michael Jackson, but I have yet to hear anything to make me disagree with Dan Reed's assessment.


It relies heavily on the accusers who have lied.

Dan knows they have lied and that's why he keeps changing his story, too about what these accusers have said.
My opinion does not rely heavily on the accusers or Dan Reed who I never heard of until mentioned by you.
I am interested in discussing Michael Jackson.
Do you want to start with his formative years?


Your posts show differently

Quote:
Leaving Neverland is quite compelling. I don’t know how you can watch that and not take them seriously.


Quote:
"But as a child predator he is wholly ordinary. He used the same lies, the same manipulation, the same secretive games with the same veiled threats. He used the same basic lures, just camouflaged with money and fame. He used the same tactics of isolation, the same coercion with drugs and alcohol. He used the same inappropriate sexual images to arouse and desensitize. He even used the same justification of 'equality' between he as a man-child and the children blessed with wisdom beyond their years.

And he wove his elaborate web so that he could do terrible things to male children, just like every other child predator."



Quote:
Can you imagine pain severe enough to compel someone to do that to their own face?

Robbed of his childhood, cursed to grow up without a true friend, so detached from society and humanity as to create a literal Neverland to attract children upon whom he would use intoxicants, sexual imagery and a pronounced home court advantage to arrange sleepovers with male children in his bedroom, secluded from all others and protected by an 'adult alarm'.
Repeatedly.
with lots of kids,
well, just the boys.

why would he do that?


You believe their stories. So it's clear that your opinion on this documentary influenced you on how MJ "preyed" on children.


A lot of what you have said in these posts were taken straight from the accuser's mouth, many of which have been proven to be lies.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Reply with quote
JerryMagicKobe
Moderator
Moderator


Joined: 28 Jul 2005
Posts: 15100

PostPosted: Wed Apr 03, 2019 11:30 pm    Post subject:

My posts do not contradict my opinion.
How many times are you going to tell me my own opinion before you realize your world is flat?
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Reply with quote
RetroNikes
Star Player
Star Player


Joined: 06 Jun 2005
Posts: 6376

PostPosted: Thu Apr 04, 2019 12:03 am    Post subject:

JerryMagicKobe wrote:
My posts do not contradict my opinion.
How many times are you going to tell me my own opinion before you realize your world is flat?



Quote:
as to create a literal Neverland to attract children upon whom he would use intoxicants, sexual imagery


Then show me proof of this.

Quote:
He used the same basic lures, just camouflaged with money and fame.


And this.

I'm here backing up my claims with facts.

People who keep calling MJ a pedophile are using using stories from accusers and then claiming that's actually what happened.

So yes, I need facts to prove these claims you were making and that you did not get them from the documentary or any of his accusers.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Reply with quote
slavavov
Star Player
Star Player


Joined: 03 Oct 2003
Posts: 8288
Location: Santa Monica

PostPosted: Thu Apr 04, 2019 1:12 am    Post subject:

I'm of the opinion that there seems to be plenty of evidence to suggest that Michael was turned on by the sight of naked little boys, but there's reasonable doubt as to whether he actually touched their private parts when he shared a bed with them.

Besides the credibility of the victims' testimony, there's two things I'm struggling with. (BTW, I haven't watched Leaving Neverland yet, I wonder if/how I can watch it for free)

1. At least one psychologist testified in the trial that Michael was a regressed 10-year-old. Child abuse causes developmental delays and arrests, and 10 year olds have slumber parties and sleep in the same bed together. Maybe that was why Michael slept in the same bed with his accusers.

2. Is it possible that Michael was sexually turned on by the sight of naked boys, and that he jacked off to child porn while in bed with these kids, then encouraged the kids to (bleep) themselves but never actually brought himself to touch their private parts himself?
_________________
Lakers 49ers Chargers Dodgers
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Reply with quote
splashmtn
Star Player
Star Player


Joined: 30 Aug 2016
Posts: 3961

PostPosted: Thu Apr 04, 2019 5:10 am    Post subject:

jodeke wrote:
RetroNikes wrote:
jodeke wrote:
RetroNikes wrote:
jodeke wrote:
Circumstantial evidence is so overwhelming in the case of Michael it's difficult to believe he's not a pedophile. If you can name another person, celebrity or other that sleeps with young children not his own and is not considered a pedophile I'll revisit my position on Michael.


It's not.

He stated that he has slept in the same bed with a few while many other kids were jammed in the bed.

Only accusers that have "come forward" have lied. It's not just one or two lies, there were many.

The reasons for lying is obvious, but I've seen people excuse their lies due to foggy memory and a result of child abuse.


IMO you are not looking at the evidence objectively, you're being subjective. You evidence Michael not sleeping with some children and eliminate his sleeping some children. It only takes 1 to be a pedophile.


I'm looking at it objectively.

Not a single accuser is credible.

Not a single one.

- Jordan Chandler

Geraldine Hughes claims she was present when he tried to set up Michael Jackson. These accusations didn't come forward until his father demanded money. And these accusations allegedly happen when he was drugged up by his father. His father was caught on tape trying to extort money from MJ.

- Gavin Arvizo
Already covered. He never slept in the same bed with Michael Jackson, MJ slept on the floor. Michael Jackson thought something was up and wanted someone else to be in the room while the Arvizo brothers sleept in the same room with MJ.

- Wade Robson & James Safechuck.

These have already been covered now more evidence is coming out that they're lying about their alleged dates.

- Jacobshagen

Lied about events, changed his story, allegedly only met Michael once. Sold fake memorabilia, claimed to have a close relationship with the Jacksons when it was a complete lie.

Him being exposed on TV.

https://www.(bleep).com/video/9EpoE5b1euuw/?fbclid=IwAR34yZj_9VNR_U7vgFPkH2U6WLapCyAyQFS-lkkyNeSB7uV_1Dso0_27skA

- Youth Pastor (not sure which person this is)

Says he was touched inappropriately (tickled) above his jeans around his private area and needed therapy. In this therapy session, he admitted that him and his family wanted money.


So, where is this credible witness that makes their circumstantial evidence so overwhelming?

Child porn? No, never had any. Only some books that had a few images of naked children.
Book from a pedophile? That book was given to him by a fan "Boys will be boys" is what it's called.
Hush money? No, never paid hush money as the civil suit did not interfere with them testifying in a criminal case.
Alarm system? He had that installed after someone broke into his house and he saw her wandering around his house.


He allegedly slept in the same bed with other kids and they claimed no abuse happened. He wouldn't even talk about porn around them.


If you're a true victim of child abuse, there's no reason for you to lie about so many events that took place. They're caught in lies because the story they're telling is false and they're unable to create the perfect timeline in which these lies exist.

Yes, i'm looking at it objectively. I can't ignore the fact that these accusers are lying and then say to myself, "MJ slept in the bed so I'm going to ignore their lies and believe sleeping in the bed makes it very likely that he molested them."

You're set in your beliefs. If all presented hasn't caused you to change your mind I don't think anything will. With that said I'm going to disengage. Have a blessed evening.
you guys are something else. these people giving you so called receipts, actual facts and things you can look up to find out if they are true are just "set in their ways" wow.

I know there has to be a name for this in some psychology book some where. There has to be. What do you call it, when people refuse to let go of a story they were told that has been proven to be a lie? what do you call it when people have an idea about someone and refuse to let go of that idea when pretty much everything that made them have that idea has been debunked?

again, we dont know if mike molested or didnt molest anyone. just like we dont know if you have molested or have not molested anyone. just like we dont know if anyone on earth has or hasnt molested some kid at sometime at some place. we dont know in most occasions looking in from the outside. but that aint a reason to believe that everyone you have no idea about means they did it. that doesnt make sense either.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Reply with quote
splashmtn
Star Player
Star Player


Joined: 30 Aug 2016
Posts: 3961

PostPosted: Thu Apr 04, 2019 5:22 am    Post subject:

JerryMagicKobe wrote:
My posts do not contradict my opinion.
How many times are you going to tell me my own opinion before you realize your world is flat?
So you're saying you always thought mj was a weirdo, especially for sleeping in the bed with kids correct?

When in reality when you heard that you thought about him sleeping in bed with one kid alone didnt you?

when in fact based on other kids..now adults...accounts of what actually took place was a giant slumber party where he fell asleep in the bed with a bunch of kids and usually he would give his bed up to sleep on the floor.

thats not the same scene in your head that you first saw. you and i both know this. does it still seem a bit weirdo-ish? YEP.

we think its weird because thats not what normal grown men would do right? or so we think.

but then when you bring in the other truth that mj never had a childhood but then had all the means to recreate it. why would he not attempt to? we can also say most people didnt/wont live the life of a MJ. The guy was a superstar before he reached the 7th grade. and he didnt even have the luxury of becoming a disney star or a Nickelodeon star where you're constantly around kids your own age. he had non of that. it was him and his older siblings doing grown up stuff. This sets the table for his weirdness when it comes to him acting like a kid and him loving to be around kids. without their being some desire to be sexually involved with children.

you can desire to be a child, desire to relive some of the things you missed(slumber parties) and have no desire to be a pedo. yes, those things can all be true.

i'll say it one more time. just because you're a weirdo does not make you a pedo. especially when we know there are tons of normal people that have been found out for being actual pedos.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Reply with quote
splashmtn
Star Player
Star Player


Joined: 30 Aug 2016
Posts: 3961

PostPosted: Thu Apr 04, 2019 6:12 am    Post subject:

Great One wrote:
Would any of you let your 7 year old sleep in any full grown mans bed, let alone MJ?


you do realize 7 yr olds are victimized by their own parents, aunts and uncles, grandparents, baby sitters, camp counselors, priests, pastors, etc. without never once sleeping in these adults beds.

so that question has zero to do with anything in relation to if mike did it or not. what it does is talk about our paranoia of the possibility of something happening.

my point is this. you ask that question so you can get the "heck no i wouldnt leave my kid with MJ over night in his bed."

But then i would ask you would you allow your child to spend the night over his uncles house?

If so, you are leaving your child space to be molested by said uncle. this happens a lot.

So where you think one thing is clearly inappropriate due to what you imagine could happen. the other thing is known to happen often and yet you still allow your kids to hang out with their uncle.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Reply with quote
splashmtn
Star Player
Star Player


Joined: 30 Aug 2016
Posts: 3961

PostPosted: Thu Apr 04, 2019 6:16 am    Post subject:

slavavov wrote:
I'm of the opinion that there seems to be plenty of evidence to suggest that Michael was turned on by the sight of naked little boys, but there's reasonable doubt as to whether he actually touched their private parts when he shared a bed with them.

Besides the credibility of the victims' testimony, there's two things I'm struggling with. (BTW, I haven't watched Leaving Neverland yet, I wonder if/how I can watch it for free)

1. At least one psychologist testified in the trial that Michael was a regressed 10-year-old. Child abuse causes developmental delays and arrests, and 10 year olds have slumber parties and sleep in the same bed together. Maybe that was why Michael slept in the same bed with his accusers.

2. Is it possible that Michael was sexually turned on by the sight of naked boys, and that he jacked off to child porn while in bed with these kids, then encouraged the kids to (bleep) themselves but never actually brought himself to touch their private parts himself?


we've already clarified where MJ lost his childhood it was not due to being abused. even if he was abuse by joe. he lost his childhood because he was a star before he turned 10 years old. and we're not talking about a kid star of some kid tv show singing kid songs, to other kids acting with other children. no, he was singing adult R&B songs as a little boy, hanging with his older siblings. Not having bdays and christmas due to his parents affiliation with Jehovahs Witness.

to your #2. anything is possible. but even that isnt probably based on the facts. now you're just making up stuff as you go along. the truth is ANYTHING IS POSSIBLE. that doesnt make it true. or even probable.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Reply with quote
RetroNikes
Star Player
Star Player


Joined: 06 Jun 2005
Posts: 6376

PostPosted: Thu Apr 04, 2019 6:22 am    Post subject:

Here are some false stories that I've read all over the internet.

1. Jackson only wanted company with these alleged victims
2. Jackson didn't like being around people his own age.
3. He wasn't physically into women.

If you look at old photos of Jordan Chandler and James Safechuck, then you would always see their mother. I believe he also had a crush on one of them.


In this phone conversation, Michael Jackson


Quote:
MJ: I know, I never had a relationship, my brothers have been married... My brothers had girlfriends. I really haven't had that.

G: How long did it take you to get over Diana?

MJ: Years... A hell of along time. I just wanna know what it's like, girl, to have a real relationship with someone who doesn't want me for me. That I don't, I don't have to look over my shoulder all the time.

G: That doesn't have an ulterior motive?

MJ: Yeah
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Reply with quote
jodeke
Retired Number
Retired Number


Joined: 17 Nov 2007
Posts: 67317
Location: In a world where admitting to not knowing something is considered a great way to learn.

PostPosted: Thu Apr 04, 2019 1:17 pm    Post subject:

RetroNikes wrote:
jodeke wrote:
RetroNikes wrote:
jodeke wrote:
Circumstantial evidence is so overwhelming in the case of Michael it's difficult to believe he's not a pedophile. If you can name another person, celebrity or other that sleeps with young children not his own and is not considered a pedophile I'll revisit my position on Michael.


It's not.

He stated that he has slept in the same bed with a few while many other kids were jammed in the bed.

Only accusers that have "come forward" have lied. It's not just one or two lies, there were many.

The reasons for lying is obvious, but I've seen people excuse their lies due to foggy memory and a result of child abuse.


IMO you are not looking at the evidence objectively, you're being subjective. You evidence Michael not sleeping with some children and eliminate his sleeping some children. It only takes 1 to be a pedophile.


I'm looking at it objectively.

Not a single accuser is credible.

Not a single one.

- Jordan Chandler

Geraldine Hughes claims she was present when he tried to set up Michael Jackson. These accusations didn't come forward until his father demanded money. And these accusations allegedly happen when he was drugged up by his father. His father was caught on tape trying to extort money from MJ.

- Gavin Arvizo
Already covered. He never slept in the same bed with Michael Jackson, MJ slept on the floor. Michael Jackson thought something was up and wanted someone else to be in the room while the Arvizo brothers sleept in the same room with MJ.

- Wade Robson & James Safechuck.

These have already been covered now more evidence is coming out that they're lying about their alleged dates.

- Jacobshagen

Lied about events, changed his story, allegedly only met Michael once. Sold fake memorabilia, claimed to have a close relationship with the Jacksons when it was a complete lie.

Him being exposed on TV.

https://www.(bleep).com/video/9EpoE5b1euuw/?fbclid=IwAR34yZj_9VNR_U7vgFPkH2U6WLapCyAyQFS-lkkyNeSB7uV_1Dso0_27skA

- Youth Pastor (not sure which person this is)

Says he was touched inappropriately (tickled) above his jeans around his private area and needed therapy. In this therapy session, he admitted that him and his family wanted money.


So, where is this credible witness that makes their circumstantial evidence so overwhelming?

Child porn? No, never had any. Only some books that had a few images of naked children.
Book from a pedophile? That book was given to him by a fan "Boys will be boys" is what it's called.
Hush money? No, never paid hush money as the civil suit did not interfere with them testifying in a criminal case.
Alarm system? He had that installed after someone broke into his house and he saw her wandering around his house.


He allegedly slept in the same bed with other kids and they claimed no abuse happened. He wouldn't even talk about porn around them.


If you're a true victim of child abuse, there's no reason for you to lie about so many events that took place. They're caught in lies because the story they're telling is false and they're unable to create the perfect timeline in which these lies exist.

Yes, i'm looking at it objectively. I can't ignore the fact that these accusers are lying and then say to myself, "MJ slept in the bed so I'm going to ignore their lies and believe sleeping in the bed makes it very likely that he molested them."


I'm not disputing or giving credibility to the accusers. My position is Michael is a pedophile.

How do you explain these items taken from Michael's home? I list a few.

A List of Every Item Discovered by Police In Michael Jackson’s Residence

LINK

Quote:
Evidence Item #509. Book with pictures of nude children.

The hard cover book is titled Cronos, by author Pere Formigeura, contains images of nude children of both sexes, as well as adults. Same location as item #508.


Quote:
Evidence Item #505. Books with pictures of nude children.

Three books, containing ‘photographs of nude and partially clothed children’. The investigator noted that the books contained images of partially clothed or naked children, as well as images of nude adults with children’s faces morphed on top. This technique may be used to sexualize and lower the inhibitions of a victim, according to the report.


Quote:
Evidence Item #365: Pornographic books, including images of naked children.

‘The Christy Report’, nude images from the 1940s, some described as sadomasochistic.

‘Robert Maxwell Photographs,’ various images, including those of children.

_________________
Be who you are and say what you feel because those who mind don't matter and those who matter don't mind.

America will never be destroyed from the outside. If we falter and lose our freedoms, it will be because we destroyed ourselves.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Reply with quote
RetroNikes
Star Player
Star Player


Joined: 06 Jun 2005
Posts: 6376

PostPosted: Thu Apr 04, 2019 1:41 pm    Post subject:

jodeke wrote:


I'm not disputing or giving credibility to the accusers. My position is Michael is a pedophile.

How do you explain these items taken from Michael's home? I list a few.

A List of Every Item Discovered by Police In Michael Jackson’s Residence

LINK

Quote:
Evidence Item #509. Book with pictures of nude children.

The hard cover book is titled Cronos, by author Pere Formigeura, contains images of nude children of both sexes, as well as adults. Same location as item #508.


Quote:
Evidence Item #505. Books with pictures of nude children.

Three books, containing ‘photographs of nude and partially clothed children’. The investigator noted that the books contained images of partially clothed or naked children, as well as images of nude adults with children’s faces morphed on top. This technique may be used to sexualize and lower the inhibitions of a victim, according to the report.


Quote:
Evidence Item #365: Pornographic books, including images of naked children.

‘The Christy Report’, nude images from the 1940s, some described as sadomasochistic.

‘Robert Maxwell Photographs,’ various images, including those of children.


I think it's obvious that you're only reading the "pictures of nude children" part WITHOUT looking at the actual title of the book.

Pere Formiguera – Cronos
The Christy Report
Simen Johan – Room to Play
Boys will be Boys (which was given to him by a fan)



These BOOKS are available in book stores.



Simen Johan – Room to Play
https://www.amazon.com/Room-Play-Simen-Johan/dp/1931885214

The Christy Report
https://www.amazon.com/Christy-Report-John-Quinn/dp/3822831654

Cronos
https://www.amazon.com/Cronos-Pere-Formiguera/dp/8495273349


Jackson had over 10,000 books and to say these books prove he had kiddy porn is a HUGE reach.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Reply with quote
jodeke
Retired Number
Retired Number


Joined: 17 Nov 2007
Posts: 67317
Location: In a world where admitting to not knowing something is considered a great way to learn.

PostPosted: Thu Apr 04, 2019 2:31 pm    Post subject:

RetroNikes wrote:
jodeke wrote:


I'm not disputing or giving credibility to the accusers. My position is Michael is a pedophile.

How do you explain these items taken from Michael's home? I list a few.

A List of Every Item Discovered by Police In Michael Jackson’s Residence

LINK

Quote:
Evidence Item #509. Book with pictures of nude children.

The hard cover book is titled Cronos, by author Pere Formigeura, contains images of nude children of both sexes, as well as adults. Same location as item #508.


Quote:
Evidence Item #505. Books with pictures of nude children.

Three books, containing ‘photographs of nude and partially clothed children’. The investigator noted that the books contained images of partially clothed or naked children, as well as images of nude adults with children’s faces morphed on top. This technique may be used to sexualize and lower the inhibitions of a victim, according to the report.


Quote:
Evidence Item #365: Pornographic books, including images of naked children.

‘The Christy Report’, nude images from the 1940s, some described as sadomasochistic.

‘Robert Maxwell Photographs,’ various images, including those of children.


I think it's obvious that you're only reading the "pictures of nude children" part WITHOUT looking at the actual title of the book.

Pere Formiguera – Cronos
The Christy Report
Simen Johan – Room to Play
Boys will be Boys (which was given to him by a fan)



These BOOKS are available in book stores.



Simen Johan – Room to Play
https://www.amazon.com/Room-Play-Simen-Johan/dp/1931885214

The Christy Report
https://www.amazon.com/Christy-Report-John-Quinn/dp/3822831654

Cronos
https://www.amazon.com/Cronos-Pere-Formiguera/dp/8495273349


Jackson had over 10,000 books and to say these books prove he had kiddy porn is a HUGE reach.

I gather you think having books and photos bold green is normal. They don't have titles. They're red flags for me.

Do you have any in your library? Do you know anyone who does? If you do, do you consider them normal? Again, what I've read about Michael leads me to believe he was a pedophile.

IMO his accusers are seeking a monetary gain.
_________________
Be who you are and say what you feel because those who mind don't matter and those who matter don't mind.

America will never be destroyed from the outside. If we falter and lose our freedoms, it will be because we destroyed ourselves.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Reply with quote
RetroNikes
Star Player
Star Player


Joined: 06 Jun 2005
Posts: 6376

PostPosted: Thu Apr 04, 2019 2:59 pm    Post subject:

jodeke wrote:

I gather you think having books and photos bold green is normal. They don't have titles. They're red flags for me.

Do you have any in your library? Do you know anyone who does? If you do, do you consider them normal? Again, what I've read about Michael leads me to believe he was a pedophile.


And you're talking about me not looking at this objectively.

Quote:
Pornographic books, including images of naked children.


See how it says, INCLUDING images of naked children?

This means the images are not all of children, but of adults, too.

He had MANY art books, magazines that contained images of naked people, only a few pages contained an few image of a naked child.

This happens in a lot in art photography books where people are naked.

That's like saying someone who has a tape of an African village has child porn video because a baby child from Africa is naked.

Do I have any in my library? No, because these were sold in stores.

If you want a list of the books Jackson books they took from his possession, then here it is.

You can find the list of all the books at:
(images NSFW)
https://themichaeljacksonallegations.com

They're not red flags. You strongly want to believe he had these books because he was a pedophile.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Reply with quote
jodeke
Retired Number
Retired Number


Joined: 17 Nov 2007
Posts: 67317
Location: In a world where admitting to not knowing something is considered a great way to learn.

PostPosted: Thu Apr 04, 2019 3:34 pm    Post subject:

RetroNikes wrote:
jodeke wrote:

I gather you think having books and photos bold green is normal. They don't have titles. They're red flags for me.

Do you have any in your library? Do you know anyone who does? If you do, do you consider them normal? Again, what I've read about Michael leads me to believe he was a pedophile.


And you're talking about me not looking at this objectively.

Quote:
Pornographic books, including images of naked children.


See how it says, INCLUDING images of naked children?

This means the images are not all of children, but of adults, too.

He had MANY art books, magazines that contained images of naked people, only a few pages contained an few image of a naked child.

This happens in a lot in art photography books where people are naked.

That's like saying someone who has a tape of an African village has child porn video because a baby child from Africa is naked.

Do I have any in my library? No, because these were sold in stores.

If you want a list of the books Jackson books they took from his possession, then here it is.

You can find the list of all the books at:
(images NSFW)
https://themichaeljacksonallegations.com

They're not red flags. You strongly want to believe he had these books because he was a pedophile.

Thanks for the links. I did assume. I also still believe Michael was a pedophile. The red flags still exist for me. I can't blot his sleeping with children.
_________________
Be who you are and say what you feel because those who mind don't matter and those who matter don't mind.

America will never be destroyed from the outside. If we falter and lose our freedoms, it will be because we destroyed ourselves.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Reply with quote
splashmtn
Star Player
Star Player


Joined: 30 Aug 2016
Posts: 3961

PostPosted: Thu Apr 04, 2019 7:38 pm    Post subject:

jodeke wrote:
RetroNikes wrote:
jodeke wrote:

I gather you think having books and photos bold green is normal. They don't have titles. They're red flags for me.

Do you have any in your library? Do you know anyone who does? If you do, do you consider them normal? Again, what I've read about Michael leads me to believe he was a pedophile.


And you're talking about me not looking at this objectively.

Quote:
Pornographic books, including images of naked children.


See how it says, INCLUDING images of naked children?

This means the images are not all of children, but of adults, too.

He had MANY art books, magazines that contained images of naked people, only a few pages contained an few image of a naked child.

This happens in a lot in art photography books where people are naked.

That's like saying someone who has a tape of an African village has child porn video because a baby child from Africa is naked.

Do I have any in my library? No, because these were sold in stores.

If you want a list of the books Jackson books they took from his possession, then here it is.

You can find the list of all the books at:
(images NSFW)
https://themichaeljacksonallegations.com

They're not red flags. You strongly want to believe he had these books because he was a pedophile.

Thanks for the links. I did assume. I also still believe Michael was a pedophile. The red flags still exist for me. I can't blot his sleeping with children.

sleeping with children. or slumber party sleeping in the same room with a bunch of children? or being smashed together in the bed with a bunch of kids after watching movies.

that doesnt say pedo. that says a big kid that could possibly be a pedo. then you ask the kids" did he touch you?" they all say no. two of them corey and mj's nephew were molested by different people but they never named mike. i wonder why? the nephew has no reason to lie on mike when he had an uncle on the other side of his family that he told on. might as well tell on this uncle too.

but lets get back to the documentary.

after all the evidence presented. i'm not asking you about MJ. please stick to the question I'm asking for the sake of a non convoluted answer.

Do you believe Safechuck and Robson?

Yes or No. If Yes, why?
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Reply with quote
splashmtn
Star Player
Star Player


Joined: 30 Aug 2016
Posts: 3961

PostPosted: Thu Apr 04, 2019 7:57 pm    Post subject:

I see why some of you guys are having such a hard time with the actual facts vs the fiction. and it's because some of you always felt mike was a pedo even before this came out. you havent thought about it in awhile because you were probably not sitting around thinking about mj. but since this dropped. it just confirmed what you already thought was true. now that you know the doc was probably not true. you dont care because you had those thoughts prior regardless of any actual facts.

Quote:
Confirmation bias, also called confirmatory bias or myside bias, is the tendency to search for, interpret, favor, and recall information in a way that confirms one's beliefs or hypotheses, while giving disproportionately less consideration to alternative possibilities. It is a type of cognitive bias and a systematic error of inductive reasoning

Now the rest of you just can't admit that as grown men you got duped. again, it can happen to any of us. there's a reason i didnt watch. i knew it wasnt nothing new that was TRUE. since we've been thru the trials and testimonies before. so i knew i didnt want to be dramataized to death into believing something i knew wasnt true. not that MJ isnt a pedo but that these two were not liars when we all know they are.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Reply with quote
slavavov
Star Player
Star Player


Joined: 03 Oct 2003
Posts: 8288
Location: Santa Monica

PostPosted: Thu Apr 04, 2019 11:09 pm    Post subject:

splashmtn wrote:
slavavov wrote:
I'm of the opinion that there seems to be plenty of evidence to suggest that Michael was turned on by the sight of naked little boys, but there's reasonable doubt as to whether he actually touched their private parts when he shared a bed with them.

Besides the credibility of the victims' testimony, there's two things I'm struggling with. (BTW, I haven't watched Leaving Neverland yet, I wonder if/how I can watch it for free)

1. At least one psychologist testified in the trial that Michael was a regressed 10-year-old. Child abuse causes developmental delays and arrests, and 10 year olds have slumber parties and sleep in the same bed together. Maybe that was why Michael slept in the same bed with his accusers.

2. Is it possible that Michael was sexually turned on by the sight of naked boys, and that he jacked off to child porn while in bed with these kids, then encouraged the kids to (bleep) themselves but never actually brought himself to touch their private parts himself?


we've already clarified where MJ lost his childhood it was not due to being abused. even if he was abuse by joe. he lost his childhood because he was a star before he turned 10 years old. and we're not talking about a kid star of some kid tv show singing kid songs, to other kids acting with other children. no, he was singing adult R&B songs as a little boy, hanging with his older siblings. Not having bdays and christmas due to his parents affiliation with Jehovahs Witness.

You're right when you say Michael lost his childhood because he was a huge child star. But there is also ample evidence that he was abused. When combined, both will have serious psychological consequences. Most child stars don't spend their entire adulthood trying to relive their lost early childhood, especially by building a zoo/amusement park they live in. It was likely the child abuse that triggered Michael's massive weirdness as an adult.

I used to listen to Loveline when Adam Carolla was on it, and every time a high school or college chick called in who had a "little girl" voice, they would put her on hold and speculate that she was sexually abused as a kid. Once Dr. Drew explained that they did it because child abuse causes developmental delays and arrests, especially in the subconscious mind. Michael's subconscious was probably a gnarly swirling mass of gobbledygook and elephant caca from getting whooped with a belt and his dad calling him ugly because he supposedly had a "big nose".
Quote:

to your #2. anything is possible. but even that isnt probably based on the facts. now you're just making up stuff as you go along. the truth is ANYTHING IS POSSIBLE. that doesnt make it true. or even probable.

You're right, anything is possible, which is why I asked that question. This was a really serious charge, and although many of us are suspicious that he may have been a pedophile, circumstantial evidence like child porn doesn't automatically place him at the scene of the crime fondling his accusers.

Then again, like I said I haven't watched Leaving Neverland yet, so maybe there's additional evidence that I'm not aware of yet that would personally convince me that he did it.
_________________
Lakers 49ers Chargers Dodgers
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Reply with quote
Display posts from previous:   
Post new topic    LakersGround.net Forum Index -> Off Topic All times are GMT - 8 Hours
Goto page Previous  1, 2, 3 ... 13, 14, 15, 16  Next
Page 14 of 16
Jump to:  

 
You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum






Graphics by uberzev
© 1995-2018 LakersGround.net. All Rights Reserved. Privacy Policy. Terms of Use.
LakersGround is an unofficial news source serving the fan community since 1995.
We are in no way associated with the Los Angeles Lakers or the National Basketball Association.


Powered by phpBB