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Captain America
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Joined: 20 Oct 2014
Posts: 720
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 Posted: Sun Feb 24, 2019 3:26 pm Post subject: If Lonzo is so Expendable, why are the Lakers so bad without him? |
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I feel like there is a major lack of appreciation for what Zo brings to the table for us on this board. I played college basketball myself and when I watch Lakers games, I think it is pretty evident that Zo is one of, if not the best player on the Lakers at this stage of Bron's career. I was curious if the W/L splits with and without Zo backed up this claim and i was actually a little surprised by the results.
17-18:
With Zo: 24-28 (46.2% win rate) Without Zo: 11-19 (36.7% win rate)
18-19
With Zo: 25-22 (53.2% win rate) Without Zo: 4-8 (33.3% win rate)
Overall:
With Zo: 49-50 (49.5% win rate) Without Zo: 15-27 (35.7%)
Any game where Zo played at least 1 minute was included as "With Zo" so a couple games where Zo got injured and we ended up losing like the Rockets game recently are still being held against Zo. Therefore, these stats probably mildly understate Zo's impact on the W/L column.
A lot of casual basketball fans look at simple stats like points scored fg% etc. and assume this automatically helps the team. However, points are actually the least impactful thing you can do on the basketball court. The most important question for players is how many games did you actually win? So glad the AD trade didn't go through |
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Inspector Gadget
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Joined: 18 Apr 2016
Posts: 46739
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| Posted: Sun Feb 24, 2019 3:32 pm Post subject: |
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| Because fans prefer AD if Lonzo is expendable, I can see your arguement being valid because he is a Impact player. |
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LakerSD
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Joined: 10 Nov 2016
Posts: 23794
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| Posted: Sun Feb 24, 2019 3:39 pm Post subject: |
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Lonzo is not really expendable. He is good at what he does.
The issue is if he is this injury prone, you cannot rely on him.
Availability is just as big as being an impact player. |
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Beir32
Star Player
Joined: 16 Feb 2016
Posts: 1710
Location: Western PA
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| Posted: Sun Feb 24, 2019 3:39 pm Post subject: Re: If Lonzo is so Expendable, why are the Lakers so bad without him? |
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| Captain America wrote: | I feel like there is a major lack of appreciation for what Zo brings to the table for us on this board. I played college basketball myself and when I watch Lakers games, I think it is pretty evident that Zo is one of, if not the best player on the Lakers at this stage of Bron's career. I was curious if the W/L splits with and without Zo backed up this claim and i was actually a little surprised by the results.
17-18:
With Zo: 24-28 (46.2% win rate) Without Zo: 11-19 (36.7% win rate)
18-19
With Zo: 25-22 (53.2% win rate) Without Zo: 4-8 (33.3% win rate)
Overall:
With Zo: 49-50 (49.5% win rate) Without Zo: 15-27 (35.7%)
Any game where Zo played at least 1 minute was included as "With Zo" so a couple games where Zo got injured and we ended up losing like the Rockets game recently are still being held against Zo. Therefore, these stats probably mildly understate Zo's impact on the W/L column.
A lot of casual basketball fans look at simple stats like points scored fg% etc. and assume this automatically helps the team. However, points are actually the least impactful thing you can do on the basketball court. The most important question for players is how many games did you actually win? So glad the AD trade didn't go through |
No. Everything else I agree with though. |
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PHILosophize
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Joined: 05 Nov 2012
Posts: 10758
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| Posted: Sun Feb 24, 2019 3:51 pm Post subject: |
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he's expendable because he's always injured due in part to our poor medical and coaching staffs
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LKA
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Joined: 06 Oct 2018
Posts: 5181
Location: Sin City
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| Posted: Sun Feb 24, 2019 4:45 pm Post subject: |
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| He’s expendable because he’s arguably the worst shooter in the history of the league |
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KobeDunk
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Joined: 23 Sep 2004
Posts: 26849
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| Posted: Sun Feb 24, 2019 4:47 pm Post subject: |
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| They’re bad with or without him. Problem is lonzo has missed major time in both of his first 2 seasons. He seems injury prone and more of a bust than a star. |
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Outspoken
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Joined: 11 Feb 2015
Posts: 8465
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| Posted: Sun Feb 24, 2019 4:48 pm Post subject: |
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| LakerSD wrote: | Lonzo is not really expendable. He is good at what he does.
The issue is if he is this injury prone, you cannot rely on him.
Availability is just as big as being an impact player. |
Yet we want AD... |
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LakerSD
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Joined: 10 Nov 2016
Posts: 23794
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| Posted: Sun Feb 24, 2019 4:52 pm Post subject: |
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| Outspoken wrote: | | LakerSD wrote: | Lonzo is not really expendable. He is good at what he does.
The issue is if he is this injury prone, you cannot rely on him.
Availability is just as big as being an impact player. |
Yet we want AD... |
AD has injury issues himself but he is nowhere near the level that Lonzo is at.
Lonzo has missed most of his NBA career to date. Lonzo is Embiid level on the injury scale and might surpass Joel with 1 or 2 more short seasons. |
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audioaxes
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Joined: 26 Apr 2004
Posts: 12573
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| Posted: Sun Feb 24, 2019 4:52 pm Post subject: |
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Lonzo has some very good positives but you cant ignore how often he killed us with absolutely horrible shooting as well. I'd prefer to keep him but if you can get an elite player like AD then yes he's very expendable
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AQuestSupreme
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Joined: 01 Nov 2007
Posts: 82
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| Posted: Sun Feb 24, 2019 5:33 pm Post subject: |
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Dude, these Lonzo Ball takes are side-splitting.
When the Lakers were fourth in the West, Lebron was play excellent basketball, and Lonzo was inconsistent.
When Lebron was out, Lonzo started playing well, but it ain't like they were some formidable team.
Lonzo fans are going to the extreme to make this guy seem valuable. Yes, he plays very good defense, but this Lakers team without Lebron was not making the playoffs.
Remember, when Lebron went down, they FELL from the 4th spot. |
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al242
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Joined: 28 Sep 2012
Posts: 3137
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| Posted: Sun Feb 24, 2019 6:11 pm Post subject: |
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BREAKING NEWS: The Lakers were bad with Lonzo too
#TradeHisAss |
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LakesGnrLake
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Joined: 07 Apr 2011
Posts: 1300
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| Posted: Sun Feb 24, 2019 6:14 pm Post subject: |
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| al242 wrote: | <b>BREAKING NEWS</b>: The Lakers were bad with Lonzo too
#TradeHisAss |
Lakers were 4th in the west when Lonzo and Bron were healthy. How people still refuse to see Lonzo's value is beyond me |
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adkindo
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Joined: 16 Jun 2005
Posts: 40345
Location: Dirty South
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| Posted: Sun Feb 24, 2019 6:30 pm Post subject: Re: If Lonzo is so Expendable, why are the Lakers so bad without him? |
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| Captain America wrote: | | A lot of casual basketball fans look at simple stats like points scored fg% etc. and assume this automatically helps the team. However, points are actually the least impactful thing you can do on the basketball court. |
in a game where the ultimate goal is to score more points than your opponent....points are actually the least impactful thing you can do on a basketball court? |
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NBALakerLegends
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Joined: 06 Aug 2007
Posts: 1026
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| Posted: Sun Feb 24, 2019 6:36 pm Post subject: Re: If Lonzo is so Expendable, why are the Lakers so bad without him? |
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| adkindo wrote: | | Captain America wrote: | | A lot of casual basketball fans look at simple stats like points scored fg% etc. and assume this automatically helps the team. However, points are actually the least impactful thing you can do on the basketball court. |
in a game where the ultimate goal is to score more points than your opponent....points are actually the least impactful thing you can do on a basketball court? |
Most of the guys in the NBA are in the league due to their scoring. Lonzo was helping us win games mostly on the defensive end. The biggest fact that shows Zo’s impact is the Lakers defensive rating at 7th place when he’s healthy to 27th when he’s out. That’s 2018 Andre Roberson level, but he does pretty much everything else better than Roberson. |
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Ziggy
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Joined: 10 Feb 2005
Posts: 12723
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| Posted: Sun Feb 24, 2019 6:48 pm Post subject: |
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| During the AD fiasco, Lonzo was really the one young guy I wanted to keep. He's such a unique player and I honestly can't wait to see how he develops. He's a lot like a younger Draymond. He elevates the play of everyone around him at the expense of his own numbers. I remember Luke saying that he leads the team in deflections, so even if he's not getting the steal himself, he's a disruptor on defense and creates opportunities for teammates to make a play. These are little things that don't show in his statline. |
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lakersfever714
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Joined: 05 Jan 2016
Posts: 11944
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| Posted: Sun Feb 24, 2019 6:48 pm Post subject: |
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The worst shooter in the league deserves a second thread. Must be slow day. If the Lakers are only a .500 team with him, then I don't know if that's good because .500 doesn't make the playoffs in the West. .500 is good enough to be just out of the playoffs while potentially getting the worst pick out of all non-playoff teams.
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Playoffs is good enough. - Jeanie Buss 2024 |
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splashmtn
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Joined: 30 Aug 2016
Posts: 3961
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| Posted: Sun Feb 24, 2019 7:11 pm Post subject: |
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| PHILosophize wrote: | | he's expendable because he's always injured due in part to our poor medical and coaching staffs |
if its about health then look at AD. mr unhealthy. and if you say its our poor staff. then ad shouldnt come here right? he's already mr injury prone. |
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splashmtn
Star Player
Joined: 30 Aug 2016
Posts: 3961
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| Posted: Sun Feb 24, 2019 7:13 pm Post subject: |
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| lakersfever714 wrote: | | The worst shooter in the league deserves a second thread. Must be slow day. If the Lakers are only a .500 team with him, then I don't know if that's good because .500 doesn't make the playoffs in the West. .500 is good enough to be just out of the playoffs while potentially getting the worst pick out of all non-playoff teams. |
.500 with him and not having a great bad of vet teammates who are really good.
here's a crazy question.
What would happen if OKC had Zo too. and they moved westbrick to sg? how good would they be?
if the rockets had zo right now how good would they be?
if the bucks had zo how good would they be?
if utah had zo how good would they be? |
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activeverb
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Joined: 17 Jun 2006
Posts: 37470
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| Posted: Sun Feb 24, 2019 7:15 pm Post subject: Re: If Lonzo is so Expendable, why are the Lakers so bad without him? |
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| Captain America wrote: | I feel like there is a major lack of appreciation for what Zo brings to the table for us on this board. I played college basketball myself and when I watch Lakers games, I think it is pretty evident that Zo is one of, if not the best player on the Lakers at this stage of Bron's career. I was curious if the W/L splits with and without Zo backed up this claim and i was actually a little surprised by the results.
17-18:
With Zo: 24-28 (46.2% win rate) Without Zo: 11-19 (36.7% win rate)
18-19
With Zo: 25-22 (53.2% win rate) Without Zo: 4-8 (33.3% win rate)
Overall:
With Zo: 49-50 (49.5% win rate) Without Zo: 15-27 (35.7%)
Any game where Zo played at least 1 minute was included as "With Zo" so a couple games where Zo got injured and we ended up losing like the Rockets game recently are still being held against Zo. Therefore, these stats probably mildly understate Zo's impact on the W/L column.
A lot of casual basketball fans look at simple stats like points scored fg% etc. and assume this automatically helps the team. However, points are actually the least impactful thing you can do on the basketball court. The most important question for players is how many games did you actually win? So glad the AD trade didn't go through |
1. Sure, Lonzo is one of the better Lakers. However, that says as much about our poor talent as anything. We're bad with him, but we're also bad with him.
2. Lonzo is a solid NBA starter, who is excellent on defense and rebounding. He also is a terrible shooter and misses a lot of games, so he's a mixed bag.
3. I don't think the Lakers are looking to sent him off for nothing, a la Zu. But they want an MVP-level talent like AD, and they will certainly part with him for that, |
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Practice
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Joined: 14 Apr 2015
Posts: 4551
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| Posted: Sun Feb 24, 2019 7:17 pm Post subject: |
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Because facts aren't allowed when talking about Lonzo only hot takes and hyperbole. If it's for Anthony Davis you obviously move anyone on the roster though.
Last edited by Practice on Sun Feb 24, 2019 7:21 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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Practice
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Joined: 14 Apr 2015
Posts: 4551
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| Posted: Sun Feb 24, 2019 7:18 pm Post subject: |
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| LakerSD wrote: | | Outspoken wrote: | | LakerSD wrote: | Lonzo is not really expendable. He is good at what he does.
The issue is if he is this injury prone, you cannot rely on him.
Availability is just as big as being an impact player. |
Yet we want AD... |
AD has injury issues himself but he is nowhere near the level that Lonzo is at.
Lonzo has missed most of his NBA career to date. Lonzo is Embiid level on the injury scale and might surpass Joel with 1 or 2 more short seasons. |
Embiid missed the first two seasons of his career, played 31 games in his third, and 63 in his fourth. Please stop. |
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adkindo
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Posts: 40345
Location: Dirty South
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| Posted: Sun Feb 24, 2019 7:19 pm Post subject: Re: If Lonzo is so Expendable, why are the Lakers so bad without him? |
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| NBALakerLegends wrote: | | adkindo wrote: | | Captain America wrote: | | A lot of casual basketball fans look at simple stats like points scored fg% etc. and assume this automatically helps the team. However, points are actually the least impactful thing you can do on the basketball court. |
in a game where the ultimate goal is to score more points than your opponent....points are actually the least impactful thing you can do on a basketball court? |
Most of the guys in the NBA are in the league due to their scoring. Lonzo was helping us win games mostly on the defensive end. The biggest fact that shows Zo’s impact is the Lakers defensive rating at 7th place when he’s healthy to 27th when he’s out. That’s 2018 Andre Roberson level, but he does pretty much everything else better than Roberson. |
whether I or anyone agrees or disagrees with your thoughts, they do not explain how "points are actually the least impactful thing you can do on a basketball court". |
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VocabuLaker
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Joined: 04 Mar 2006
Posts: 1035
Location: Venice Beach
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| Posted: Sun Feb 24, 2019 7:21 pm Post subject: |
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| LakesGnrLake wrote: | | al242 wrote: | <b><b>BREAKING NEWS</b></b>: The Lakers were bad with Lonzo too
#TradeHisAss |
Lakers were 4th in the west when Lonzo and Bron were healthy. How people still refuse to see Lonzo's value is beyond me |
 4th in the west was just 2 games out of 10th at the time.
4th in the west was NO major accomplishment at all |
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Practice
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Joined: 14 Apr 2015
Posts: 4551
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| Posted: Sun Feb 24, 2019 7:22 pm Post subject: |
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| VocabuLaker wrote: | | LakesGnrLake wrote: | | al242 wrote: | <b><b><b>BREAKING NEWS</b></b></b>: The Lakers were bad with Lonzo too
#TradeHisAss |
Lakers were 4th in the west when Lonzo and Bron were healthy. How people still refuse to see Lonzo's value is beyond me |
4th in the west was just 2 games out of 10th at the time.
4th in the west was NO major accomplishment at all |
All that tells us is that the west was/is extremely competitive. Being fourth was an accomplishment. |
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