Would our 'young core' players do better in another market?
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jg77
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PostPosted: Fri Feb 15, 2019 1:33 pm    Post subject:

saetarubia wrote:
BadGuy wrote:
The God Particle wrote:
BadGuy wrote:
Kuzma would fit anywhere. He's self-motivated and a great shooter. While Lakers, BI, Randle, and DLo seem(ed) to think they're much better than they actually are. If/when they get traded, these guys somehow manage to find the motivation that they should have had in the first place while on the Lakers. Difficult to say whether this is due to their age while on the Lakers or not.


Another poster fooled by Kuzma's summer league his rookie year.

In what planet is Kuzma a great shooter when in his career (1.75 years) he's shooting lower than the league average from 3. Because he gets hot every 7th game?

KYLE KUZMA IS NOT A GREAT SHOOTER!

I'd be absolutely ecstatic if Kyle Kuzma at his peak became Cedric Ceballos. First however, he needs to rebound and pass it a little better.


No need to have an aneurysm. I meant scorer. Regardless, you're arguing semantics about someone that has proven to be the best player we have outside of LeBron thus far.


If poor defense, tunnel vision, below average 3P shooting can be overlooked to make you the 2nd best player, I guess. But that don't usually impact to wins. Hence we miss certain other players more when they are out.


LeBron is the only player on the team who impacts the W/L column. We were losing plenty of games when Lonzo, Kuz, and BI were playing.
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Beir32
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PostPosted: Fri Feb 15, 2019 1:38 pm    Post subject:

Dlo didn't change teams this year. He changed teams last year and he didn't exactly have some sort of basketball awakening under the expert tutelage of the Brooklyn Nets at that time. This year everything just clicked.

All of our youngsters were projects to a certain degree and projects take time.
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The Juggernaut
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PostPosted: Fri Feb 15, 2019 1:47 pm    Post subject:

They'd do better with a competent COACH. Someone like Atkinson
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PostPosted: Fri Feb 15, 2019 1:50 pm    Post subject:

Randle is putting up almost the same numbers he did last year after the all-star break. The difference is we barely played him early in the year. Russell actually regressed last year. They're not better because they left. They're better because they're older. They'd be doing the same thing here. We just don't have the patience to wait for that and wanted to go all-in on cap space so needed guys whose rookie contracts weren't expiring or one-year rentals. It sucks to see them doing well elsewhere, but whether it was worth it or not depends entirely on what we do with the cap space, not the results we get this year.
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PostPosted: Fri Feb 15, 2019 2:51 pm    Post subject:

I'm beginning to feel like Walton is just spreading the minutes around more than he should have. Seems like our ex players are thrown into the game and left there. They are given the chance to sink or swim. Here it is all about learning and Luke just can't seem to pick a lineup and stick with it. His lineups are all situational and can change on a day to day basis.

At this point I would definitely like to see another coach.
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PostPosted: Sat Feb 16, 2019 10:51 am    Post subject:

I tend to think that John Wooden was right.

"It's tempting to think that what one sees a man do in within given circumstance as a part of a specific team is indicative of what he may do in another. Who really knows what is possible for a young man, given a different coach, an alternate set of team mates, or even with one key change of a companion player ? I try to judge a player on what I see him do, and what I imagine he may be able to do in the circumstances available to me. I don't spend time wondering what he may do elsewhere. That is another man's duty."
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AFireInside619
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PostPosted: Sat Feb 16, 2019 10:59 am    Post subject:

This shouldn’t even be a question. The answer is a resounding “Yes, they would do better elsewhere.”

Our front office is (bleep) because we want big stars and box office.

Our fans are (bleep) because they expect everyone young guy to be Kobe or bust.

Our last two coaches have been (bleep) because they rather play terrible journeymen than give our young guys a chance on the court.

Our player development is (bleep) (obviously).

Our scouting is excellent!!!
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KindCrippler2000
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PostPosted: Sat Feb 16, 2019 3:38 pm    Post subject:

Yes. I think BI would be Kawhi'd on the Spurs. He needs a guy like Chip to take his shooting to another level.
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Kobesystem
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PostPosted: Sat Feb 16, 2019 4:07 pm    Post subject:

KindCrippler2000 wrote:
Yes. I think BI would be Kawhi'd on the Spurs. He needs a guy like Chip to take his shooting to another level.


nah. SPurs were always a system team and Brandon would have even less freedom under Pop....
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PostPosted: Sat Feb 16, 2019 4:21 pm    Post subject:

KindCrippler2000 wrote:
Yes. I think BI would be Kawhi'd on the Spurs. He needs a guy like Chip to take his shooting to another level.
No way.
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PostPosted: Sat Feb 16, 2019 4:22 pm    Post subject:

Wilkes52 wrote:
I tend to think that John Wooden was right.

"It's tempting to think that what one sees a man do in within given circumstance as a part of a specific team is indicative of what he may do in another. Who really knows what is possible for a young man, given a different coach, an alternate set of team mates, or even with one key change of a companion player ? I try to judge a player on what I see him do, and what I imagine he may be able to do in the circumstances available to me. I don't spend time wondering what he may do elsewhere. That is another man's duty."
Love me some John Wooden.
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Practice
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PostPosted: Sat Feb 16, 2019 4:46 pm    Post subject:

LA is a tough place to play, so probably.
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hcbball
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PostPosted: Sat Feb 16, 2019 4:55 pm    Post subject:

The God Particle wrote:
BadGuy wrote:
Kuzma would fit anywhere. He's self-motivated and a great shooter. While Lakers, BI, Randle, and DLo seem(ed) to think they're much better than they actually are. If/when they get traded, these guys somehow manage to find the motivation that they should have had in the first place while on the Lakers. Difficult to say whether this is due to their age while on the Lakers or not.


Another poster fooled by Kuzma's summer league his rookie year.

In what planet is Kuzma a great shooter when in his career (1.75 years) he's shooting lower than the league average from 3. Because he gets hot every 7th game?

KYLE KUZMA IS NOT A GREAT SHOOTER!

I'd be absolutely ecstatic if Kyle Kuzma at his peak became Cedric Ceballos. First however, he needs to rebound and pass it a little better.

True. He is not a great shooter, and probably will never be in his career. On the other hand, his stock is rising in the league, not necessarily because of just his skills, as is the case often. Lebron is also not a great shooter and considered one of the greatest players in the league. I think it's incompatible personally to not be a great shooter and be considered like that, but that is not the common perception, where most people look at the numbers and stats solely for ther conclusions. From this angle, Kuzma is more valuable than his shooting suggests. First, let's admit that his floater is quite good; almost elite I'd say (and the rest of his shooting, not so much).

His stock around the league with other teams and fans is high now, probably higher than anyone but Lebron for us. That is valuable for trade bait, and also if we keep him for our team. That kind of respect can actually translate to on court success; again, look at Lebron. Nike is considering him for a signature show, which is shocking to me, because that is usually only for like MVP caliber players. But it's that weird electronic shoe, so a little different. But that's a big deal; another indication of his quickly rising stock.

Also, despite the bad average, it's also possible he can become like an Horry type where he hits it when it counts. It remains to be seens, but he is a optimistic character in this year that has seen the stock of the other young guys fall a little.
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PostPosted: Sat Feb 16, 2019 6:42 pm    Post subject:

It’s way too early to say Kuzma won’t improve as a shooter. Just look at how guys like Tobias Harris have improved.

Last edited by Practice on Sat Feb 16, 2019 11:28 pm; edited 1 time in total
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PostPosted: Sat Feb 16, 2019 9:02 pm    Post subject:

I guess it depends on your definition of “doing better” is. If “doing better” simply means that they are allowed to chuck and put up better offensive numbers, then yeah. Brooklyn and New Orleans really have nothing going on, they never really have. I don’t think either DLO or Randle have improved dramatically, it’s just that last time I checked DLO was throwing up the 2nd most shots per 36 in the league behind Harden. Randle is shooting a ton as well at about the same rate (lower I think).

Go tell ZO that he HAS to shoot 25 times a game and shoot at least 10 3s and his averages tell you he will average like 22–25 points a game, it doesn’t mean that he’s improved, he’s just shooting more.

I’m sure if you send Kuzma to Atlanta and let him shoot as much as he wants he’d average 25+
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PostPosted: Sun Feb 17, 2019 4:59 am    Post subject:

Fortysixn2 wrote:
I guess it depends on your definition of “doing better” is. If “doing better” simply means that they are allowed to chuck and put up better offensive numbers, then yeah. Brooklyn and New Orleans really have nothing going on, they never really have. I don’t think either DLO or Randle have improved dramatically, it’s just that last time I checked DLO was throwing up the 2nd most shots per 36 in the league behind Harden. Randle is shooting a ton as well at about the same rate (lower I think).

Go tell ZO that he HAS to shoot 25 times a game and shoot at least 10 3s and his averages tell you he will average like 22–25 points a game, it doesn’t mean that he’s improved, he’s just shooting more.

I’m sure if you send Kuzma to Atlanta and let him shoot as much as he wants he’d average 25+


Nets have a better record than us.... Their starting lineup minus DLO consists of a second year one and done player (allen, pick after Kuzma), 2 second round players ( Joe Harris and Kurucs) and an undrafted player (Treveon Graham)
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Kobesystem
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PostPosted: Sun Feb 17, 2019 5:02 am    Post subject:

Practice wrote:
It’s way too early to say Kuzma won’t improve as a shooter. Just look at how guys like Tobias Harris have improved.


I see Kuzma absolutely peak being what Tobias Harris is this season (before the trade)...
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Daphanabe
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PostPosted: Sun Feb 17, 2019 6:10 am    Post subject:

One word: Luke Walton
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governator
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PostPosted: Sun Feb 17, 2019 7:02 am    Post subject:

Daphanabe wrote:
One word: Luke Walton


Not defending Luke but how would say Pop utilize LeBron, BI, Kuz and Lonzo differently this season (I think their stats would still be similar)?
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Ziggy
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PostPosted: Sun Feb 17, 2019 7:28 am    Post subject:

They'd do better on any team that values player development, which this one does not.
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Lakesh0wtime
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PostPosted: Sun Feb 17, 2019 8:22 am    Post subject:

Kobesystem wrote:
KindCrippler2000 wrote:
Yes. I think BI would be Kawhi'd on the Spurs. He needs a guy like Chip to take his shooting to another level.


nah. SPurs were always a system team and Brandon would have even less freedom under Pop....


Idk if he’d be as great but if BI was utilized as how PG and Kawhi were their first few years I think he’d be a lot better off now.

They were 3&D and then developed an iso game.

Luke and magic made BI go straight to iso.
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Fortysixn2
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PostPosted: Sun Feb 17, 2019 9:43 am    Post subject:

Kobesystem wrote:
Fortysixn2 wrote:
I guess it depends on your definition of “doing better” is. If “doing better” simply means that they are allowed to chuck and put up better offensive numbers, then yeah. Brooklyn and New Orleans really have nothing going on, they never really have. I don’t think either DLO or Randle have improved dramatically, it’s just that last time I checked DLO was throwing up the 2nd most shots per 36 in the league behind Harden. Randle is shooting a ton as well at about the same rate (lower I think).

Go tell ZO that he HAS to shoot 25 times a game and shoot at least 10 3s and his averages tell you he will average like 22–25 points a game, it doesn’t mean that he’s improved, he’s just shooting more.

I’m sure if you send Kuzma to Atlanta and let him shoot as much as he wants he’d average 25+


Nets have a better record than us.... Their starting lineup minus DLO consists of a second year one and done player (allen, pick after Kuzma), 2 second round players ( Joe Harris and Kurucs) and an undrafted player (Treveon Graham)


Maybe they are a better constructed team than us and have better coaching and better schemes and have fewer injuries? The Twolves have a better record than the Pels, that means KAT is better than AD? I don’t get your argument here.
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Beir32
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PostPosted: Sun Feb 17, 2019 12:30 pm    Post subject:

We haven't drafted a guy who's game was close to NBA ready in a long time. The answer is probably yes for all the reasons already discussed but they were always gonna take time.
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PostPosted: Sun Feb 17, 2019 1:09 pm    Post subject:

Fortysixn2 wrote:
Kobesystem wrote:
Fortysixn2 wrote:
I guess it depends on your definition of “doing better” is. If “doing better” simply means that they are allowed to chuck and put up better offensive numbers, then yeah. Brooklyn and New Orleans really have nothing going on, they never really have. I don’t think either DLO or Randle have improved dramatically, it’s just that last time I checked DLO was throwing up the 2nd most shots per 36 in the league behind Harden. Randle is shooting a ton as well at about the same rate (lower I think).

Go tell ZO that he HAS to shoot 25 times a game and shoot at least 10 3s and his averages tell you he will average like 22–25 points a game, it doesn’t mean that he’s improved, he’s just shooting more.

I’m sure if you send Kuzma to Atlanta and let him shoot as much as he wants he’d average 25+


Nets have a better record than us.... Their starting lineup minus DLO consists of a second year one and done player (allen, pick after Kuzma), 2 second round players ( Joe Harris and Kurucs) and an undrafted player (Treveon Graham)


Maybe they are a better constructed team than us and have better coaching and better schemes and have fewer injuries? The Twolves have a better record than the Pels, that means KAT is better than AD? I don’t get your argument here.



Allen Crabbe
Trade with Portland - Nicholson for Crabbe (July 2017)

DeMarre Carroll
Trade with Toronto - Justin Hamilton for Carroll, 2018 first and 2018 second

Jared Dudley
Trade with Phoenix - Arthur for Dudley and 2021 second`

Joe Harris
Signed as a free agent (July 2016)

D'Angelo Russell
Traded Lopez + Kuzma for Mozgov and Russell

Ed Davis
Signed as a free agent

Rondae Hollis-Jefferson
Drafted by Portland and then traded - Pat Connaughton and Mason Plumlee for RHJ and Steve Blake

Jarrett Allen
Drafted #22 in 2017

Shabazz Napier
Signed as a free agent

Caris LeVert
Drafted by Indiana and then traded - Thaddeus Young for LeVert and a second round pick

Spencer Dinwiddie
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Dzanan Musa
Drafted #29 in 2018

Rodions Kurucs
Drafted #40 in 2018

Treveon Graham
Signed as a free agent


The combo of Marks and Atkinson is really good. It is true that veterans LeBron and Rondo have missed games, but the Brooklyn veterans (Dudley and Carroll) are more key for the locker room and mentality parts than actually carrying the Nets on the court.
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Kobesystem
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PostPosted: Sun Feb 17, 2019 1:32 pm    Post subject:

Fortysixn2 wrote:
Kobesystem wrote:
Fortysixn2 wrote:
I guess it depends on your definition of “doing better” is. If “doing better” simply means that they are allowed to chuck and put up better offensive numbers, then yeah. Brooklyn and New Orleans really have nothing going on, they never really have. I don’t think either DLO or Randle have improved dramatically, it’s just that last time I checked DLO was throwing up the 2nd most shots per 36 in the league behind Harden. Randle is shooting a ton as well at about the same rate (lower I think).

Go tell ZO that he HAS to shoot 25 times a game and shoot at least 10 3s and his averages tell you he will average like 22–25 points a game, it doesn’t mean that he’s improved, he’s just shooting more.

I’m sure if you send Kuzma to Atlanta and let him shoot as much as he wants he’d average 25+


Nets have a better record than us.... Their starting lineup minus DLO consists of a second year one and done player (allen, pick after Kuzma), 2 second round players ( Joe Harris and Kurucs) and an undrafted player (Treveon Graham)


Maybe they are a better constructed team than us and have better coaching and better schemes and have fewer injuries? The Twolves have a better record than the Pels, that means KAT is better than AD? I don’t get your argument here.


Point is the Nets are doing better than us.

You say the Nets have nothing going on, besides a potential postseason run, max cap space and draft picks....

Nets also have just as much injuries or even more to key players.
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