White Male Sports Privilege
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Dr. Laker
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PostPosted: Wed Feb 13, 2019 10:41 pm    Post subject: White Male Sports Privilege

Magic gets dumped on when the one year, eleven months and 358 days of his tenure have been DEMONSTRABLY better than the three seasons which preceded his hiring.

Jeanie gets crap despite having been in the family business at a high level since she was 19 years old, has been universally acknowledged as a genius in monetizing the team since becoming EVP in 99 and was HANDPICKED BY HER DAD to take over the team. While her brothers were chasing waves and snorting coke with porn stars, she was graduating from USC with honors & learning/honing her craft and has been a key team member since the mid 90s. Jeanie has had spectacular success for 38 years, but is given the dumb blonde treatment on this board.

Of course, no one in any public position is immune from examination and criticism - they come with the territory. But reviewing the commentary on this board makes it clear that for many posters, the issues are not merely basketball related.

To wit (re: Magic), there is a general refrain amongst some that, while he was a transformational player, Magic the Team President is just a smiling buffoon who gets in the way of the capable (white) guys like Rob, Ryan & Jesse who work for him.

NOTWITHSTANDING THE FACT that Magic has a net worth well north of half a billion dollars (clearly the white guys around him made it happen), Earvin Johnson is basically just some freak of nature who, if he hadn't grown to be 6' 9", would be at best, a postal worker and at worst, in prison. I saw this POV all the time in business and academia, from conservatives, moderates and liberals, particularly towards black athletes. "They're great repping our (city/alma mater/park) on the field or court, but they lack the necessities to succeed as an owner/executive/head coach."

AND IT'S NOT JUST MAGIC-SPECIFIC: when names are brought up to replace Luke, any of the African-Americans who are brought up are instantly derided. Mark Jackson? Ty Lue? Jason Kidd? HELLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLL NO. Plug in any retread whose never won jack (Thibs/JVG/ random guy) will have his camp of supporters.

DITTO JEANIE: "Too emotional," "Wants the hype and drama of Magic," "Needs to stay on her side of the operation," "Lacks the balls/toughness," "Won't let go of her boy toy," etc. The most sexist and demeaning comments about a woman who has won awards for her business acumen and had the huevos to crush a corporate coup d'etat and force her older brothers out of the management/oversight of not only the Lakers, but of the family trust and its billions of dollars in assets.

No one had a problem with her dad - who knew jack squat about hoops - getting involved on the hoops side. It was his asset and he had every right to exert his will as the owner - and he was not perfect . Pat Riley, Jerry West, Phil Jackson & Shaq all left the team not for basketball reasons, but because of money. He was notoriously cheap and the team lost out on players because he "didn't think he was allowed to exceed the salary cap," [i.e., he didn't want to spend the money, hence Cuban's "Merry Men of Minimum" crack]. But the Doc - a notorious womanizer, gambler, drug addict and cheapskate - gets a pass, as do sons Jimmy & Johnny, who've basically failed at everything they've done that was outside of Daddy's control.

"I'M NOT A RACIST OR SEXIST - MY CONCERNS ARE LEGITIMATE!" Uh, yeah. Magic has been on the job less than 2 years. In that time, he's signed the premiere free agent available and has the team in position to get another one. In the previous 35 years of the salary cap era, the Lakers had only signed one premiere free agent - Shaq - and it took 4 years to win with him (just like it did with Wilt & Kareem). Magic's time limit, however, is yesterday. Get his ass out, he's an abject failure!

Jeanie became Team President & Governor in 2013. With an abundance of caution & compassion, she gave her brother a free hand - and the team went 124-270. She made a bold & decisive move, ran her brother and Mitch out and brought in a new brain trust. So far, the team is 40-43 in its new iteration. Not world beating - but not pathetic like it was, and it has the pieces t get better. Moreover, she has kept the franchise thriving financially and has spent money where her dad would not - analytics, new facilities, added support staff, etc. But she still gets examined through the lens of having too many hormones to succeed in a man's world.

SOME OF THE PEOPLE WHO DISLIKE MAGIC/JEANIE ARE BLACK,AND/OR WOMEN! Being of a particular race or gender doesn't indemnify you from racism or genderism. There are Asians who discriminate against other Asians, LGBTQ people who despise LGBTQ people - Angelinos who hate people from Los Angeles.

BOTTOM LINE - The Lakers are logarithmically better than they were 2 years ago - and are on an ascending curve - under Jeanie & Magic. To hate their regime for basketball reasons is a stretch - but OK. Everyone's milage varies. But to discount Magic or Jeanie because you doubt their acumen or ability when both have pretty much 4 decades of spectacular success behind them is either abject idiocy or racism/genderism.
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PostPosted: Wed Feb 13, 2019 10:48 pm    Post subject:

Until he offered 7 to 10 assets for Anthony Davis I trusted Magic.

This has zero to do with race or gender.

It would be the same if I saw my child's preschool teacher standing on the ledge of ten story building... holding a child like Michael Jackson did many years ago.

I'd no longer trust that teacher.

Still my favorite player... no longer a trusted executive in my book.
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levon
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PostPosted: Wed Feb 13, 2019 10:54 pm    Post subject:

I was kind of debating bringing this up with some of Luke's media coverage. I think the coach/player race disparity is definitely a thing (even though it's less of a thing in the NBA). That said, I didn't read all of this, but skimming over it I feel like I'd disagree with most of it.

Side note: Growing logarithmically isn't impressive. You taper off the further you go. Did you mean exponentially?
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Do it Mitch!
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PostPosted: Wed Feb 13, 2019 10:55 pm    Post subject:

Good post, and I agree. Even the site staff here (mods) hate on Jeanie and Magic. Want the team sold, and the front office fired. Not even 2 years in. People want another championship yesterday.
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drae
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PostPosted: Wed Feb 13, 2019 10:58 pm    Post subject:

Because people assign "racism" and "sexism" to everything, these words have lost a lot of power. To the point where I just can't be bothered reading these types of posts.
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PostPosted: Wed Feb 13, 2019 10:58 pm    Post subject:

levon wrote:
I was kind of debating bringing this up with some of Luke's media coverage. I think the coach/player race disparity is definitely a thing (even though it's less of a thing in the NBA). That said, I didn't read all of this, but skimming over it I feel like I'd disagree with most of it.

Side note: Growing logarithmically isn't impressive. You taper off the further you go. Did you mean exponentially?


Glad you know math and I did mean logarithmically - there are only 82 games, so you can't square your previous win total!
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PostPosted: Wed Feb 13, 2019 10:59 pm    Post subject:

drae wrote:
Because people assign "racism" and "sexism" to everything, these words have lost a lot of power. To the point where I just can't be bothered reading these types of posts.


Typical and underlines the point.
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drae
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PostPosted: Wed Feb 13, 2019 11:00 pm    Post subject:

Dr. Laker wrote:
drae wrote:
Because people assign "racism" and "sexism" to everything, these words have lost a lot of power. To the point where I just can't be bothered reading these types of posts.


Typical and underlines the point.


It doesn't
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PostPosted: Wed Feb 13, 2019 11:12 pm    Post subject:

drae wrote:
Dr. Laker wrote:
drae wrote:
Because people assign "racism" and "sexism" to everything, these words have lost a lot of power. To the point where I just can't be bothered reading these types of posts.


Typical and underlines the point.


It doesn't


Yeah, yeah - it's the old "that's not my dog, he didn't bite you plus you kicked him, first" dodge.
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PostPosted: Wed Feb 13, 2019 11:15 pm    Post subject:

Dr. Laker wrote:
drae wrote:
Dr. Laker wrote:
drae wrote:
Because people assign "racism" and "sexism" to everything, these words have lost a lot of power. To the point where I just can't be bothered reading these types of posts.


Typical and underlines the point.


It doesn't


Yeah, yeah - it's the old "that's not my dog, he didn't bite you plus you kicked him, first" dodge.


It isn't. You, through use of copious amounts of dubious analyses, drew a conclusion that is patently false. Including that Magic now has the best player in the world who came because he wanted to come to Los Angeles, not because of Magic, as a way to say the team's doing better. Sure, they now have the best player in the world, congratulations. That he's now doing better in the short term than when he had a bunch of young prospects looking toward the future is a given, but I notice you didn't bring that up because it would ruin your "racism" wail.

Your analysis is garbage and your conclusion is stupid. Congratulations
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PostPosted: Wed Feb 13, 2019 11:17 pm    Post subject:

Sentient Meat wrote:
Until he offered 7 to 10 assets for Anthony Davis I trusted Magic.

This has zero to do with race or gender.

It would be the same if I saw my child's preschool teacher standing on the ledge of ten story building... holding a child like Michael Jackson did many years ago.

I'd no longer trust that teacher.

Still my favorite player... no longer a trusted executive in my book.


How many assets where traded to get Jabbar?
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drae
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PostPosted: Wed Feb 13, 2019 11:20 pm    Post subject:

Wino wrote:
Sentient Meat wrote:
Until he offered 7 to 10 assets for Anthony Davis I trusted Magic.

This has zero to do with race or gender.

It would be the same if I saw my child's preschool teacher standing on the ledge of ten story building... holding a child like Michael Jackson did many years ago.

I'd no longer trust that teacher.

Still my favorite player... no longer a trusted executive in my book.


How many assets where traded to get Jabbar?


Elmore Smith, Brian Winters, Dave Myers, Junior Bridgeman for Jabbar and Walt Wesley
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PostPosted: Wed Feb 13, 2019 11:30 pm    Post subject:

Dr. Laker wrote:
drae wrote:
Dr. Laker wrote:
drae wrote:
Because people assign "racism" and "sexism" to everything, these words have lost a lot of power. To the point where I just can't be bothered reading these types of posts.


Typical and underlines the point.


It doesn't


Yeah, yeah - it's the old "that's not my dog, he didn't bite you plus you kicked him, first" dodge.


IMHO, your post and thinking is a bit overwrought and offpoint regarding the Lakers, though generally sound with respect to the world at-large (that is, agreed, racism and sexism are very real and worrisome) .

I'm not going to argue your point (in terms of the details) but I would say that Jeannie and Magic share a sort-of Mr. Magoo quality. Their specific thinking and comments about basketball, the Lakers and the NBA are often simple-minded, optimistic and out of touch with real resource contstraints and rules. And I think some of this is assoiciated with Southern California and being rich and lucky in a place where it is often sunny. And some of it stems from the LA tension between "dedicating" yourself to living your dreams/creating entertainment product and the more traditional notion of actually mastering a real craft and working hard to do a job. By analogy, the Khardashians have been wildly successful, but I don't think it is sexist or racist to question whether they have really mastered a craft, or have any real expertise, or really work hard or really have any clear idea about how to add value to oiur society.
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PostPosted: Wed Feb 13, 2019 11:36 pm    Post subject:

Where does my disdain for Rob fit in here
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drae
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PostPosted: Wed Feb 13, 2019 11:38 pm    Post subject:

tox wrote:
Where does my disdain for Rob fit in here


It gets pushed out of sight the same way everybody's disdain for Luke does.
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PostPosted: Wed Feb 13, 2019 11:41 pm    Post subject:

Kareem is way better than AD. When he entered the league his team improved 29 games from 27 wins to 56 wins.

The following year, the Bucks won the title.

AD although great, has never gotten further than the first round... and is about to miss the playoffs 5 of 7 years.

Yet, we offered double the assets that we offered for Kareem.

I'm weary of listening to people repeat oversimplified slogans about how superstars wins championships... that's usually all they write.

Well, as we know... superstars win championships... end of argument.

Superstars do win championships when they are signed as free agents or acquired in reasonable trades.

I have yet to think of one where a team gave up four years worth of tanking assets... plus future picks and won a title from giving up that much.

KD? Nope... free agent

Kawhi? Nope Green and Kawhi for DDR and Poeltl.

LBJ? Nope... free agent

Giannis? Nope... draft

Harden? Nope... free agent

PG13? Nope... Oladipo and Sabonis... 2 assets only

Did I forget anyone?

Remind me of the other superstars acquired in bonehead 8 asset trades.

I'll wait...
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PostPosted: Wed Feb 13, 2019 11:41 pm    Post subject:

I'm a white guy and I'm not exactly sure I don't believe you.

Honestly, I'm just not sure what drives it. Sometimes I think it is a sports phenomenon where people just love to bag on everyone.

That being said, too many people like to hear themselves yap about things. It they throw enough sh*t at the wall, some of it is bound to stick.

I have to say, as a white guy in southern California, I have zero friends here who would say anything obviously racist. I know it's out there, but I rarely see it and have never seen it with a friend.

If you want to get into all this white privilege stuff, no white person can ever be innocent of it because all you to do is go back a generation or two within any white family and you will find racism. That said, before my father died, he loved the Lakers, had a very high opinion of Jabbar and Magic. Never heard him say anything bad about any of the athletes I knew about that indicated any kind of racial disrespect.

Magic has my unwavering support. He will leave before I think he should, if it comes down to that. Like you say, every single winning team we have had took a few years to build.

I have said many times around here, that it is the journey that matters, it is the journey that builds the character. Very little happens in this league over night.

How long did it take the Lakers to win with Jabbar, with West, with Kobe and Shaq. Man, it takes a number of years.

With the team Magic inherited, we didn't start at the bottom, we started in a hole, had to dig out of that hole, just to start at the bottom.

I think the Lakers can head in a couple of directions. If I was in charge of the FO, I would still go after AD. Boston is really going to be stupid if they force the trade and then lose him. And they would deserve to lose him. For a team that is so close to going for a ring, to take that kind of risk, just seems like a really egotistical attempt to win it all against the wishes of the player.

This will be an interesting thread.
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Last edited by Wino on Wed Feb 13, 2019 11:45 pm; edited 1 time in total
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PostPosted: Wed Feb 13, 2019 11:44 pm    Post subject:

Wino wrote:
How long did it take the Lakers to win with Jabbar, with West, with Kobe and Shaq. Man, it takes a number of years.


The timeline Magic put us on is next year. And if you think that's unfair remember it's the timeline Magic himself put us on.
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PostPosted: Wed Feb 13, 2019 11:47 pm    Post subject:

drae wrote:
Wino wrote:
How long did it take the Lakers to win with Jabbar, with West, with Kobe and Shaq. Man, it takes a number of years.


The timeline Magic put us on is next year. And if you think that's unfair remember it's the timeline Magic himself put us on.


Who F'ing cares? I don't!!

All I care is if he can turn us into a winning team. If it doesn't happen in a few years then he will quit.

In the meantime I find your comments completely bothersome. You, and others like you, are like little bugs that make me itch. Blech!!
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PostPosted: Wed Feb 13, 2019 11:51 pm    Post subject:

Wino wrote:
drae wrote:
Wino wrote:
How long did it take the Lakers to win with Jabbar, with West, with Kobe and Shaq. Man, it takes a number of years.


The timeline Magic put us on is next year. And if you think that's unfair remember it's the timeline Magic himself put us on.


Who F'ing cares? I don't!!

All I care is if he can turn us into a winning team. If it doesn't happen in a few years then he will quit.

In the meantime I find your comments completely bothersome. You, and others like you, are like little bugs that make me itch. Blech!!


I don't (bleep) care if you find my comments bothersome.

But if you want to complain about the timeline Magic is on with fans without accepting that he put himself on that timeline, then you're just absolving the man of all responsibility for his actions. Good for you
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PostPosted: Thu Feb 14, 2019 12:09 am    Post subject:

drae wrote:
tox wrote:
Where does my disdain for Rob fit in here


It gets pushed out of sight the same way everybody's disdain for Luke does.


/thread
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PostPosted: Thu Feb 14, 2019 12:11 am    Post subject:

lol you using PC card now? I know you like Magic alot but this is to far brother.
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PostPosted: Thu Feb 14, 2019 12:21 am    Post subject:

This drew a big "eh" from me.

Magic was a great player and successful businessman. But he was a crappy coach and he says a lot of stupid things. How good of an executive he'll be is still an open question.

Jeanie has never had a job her dad didn't give her. How good has she been in those jobs over the past decades? I have no idea; most of his career has been spent doing things that can't be judged by anyone outside the organization.

The notion that she "has been universally acknowledged as a genius in monetizing the team" has my eyes rolling. So did the notion that Jimmy got a pass around here. So did the notion that you are a racist or sexist if you are not utterly impressed with everything Jeanie and Magic have done over the past couple of years. So did ...

You get the point. Another post like this and I'm going to need to go to an opthamologist to get my eyes re-centered.
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PostPosted: Thu Feb 14, 2019 12:54 am    Post subject:

Palin wrote:
lol you using PC card now? I know you like Magic alot but this is to far brother.


Business as usual.

Bob: "Hank, are you a racist or a sexist?"
Hank: "Nope. Are you, Bob?"
Bob: "Nope. Must be some chick on her period or one of 'Those people' whining again."
Hank: "Yep. 'Those people' see racism & sexism everywhere. That's why I'm glad none of them live in this neighborhood."

Let's refute the premise but not the argument. Hey, what this team REALLY needs is an 80-year old white male who got fired from his last gig . . .
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PostPosted: Thu Feb 14, 2019 1:04 am    Post subject:

Dr. Laker wrote:
Palin wrote:
lol you using PC card now? I know you like Magic alot but this is to far brother.


Business as usual.

Bob: "Hank, are you a racist or a sexist?"
Hank: "Nope. Are you, Bob?"
Bob: "Nope. Must be some chick on her period or one of 'Those people' whining again."
Hank: "Yep. 'Those people' see racism & sexism everywhere. That's why I'm glad none of them live in this neighborhood."

Let's refute the premise but not the argument. Hey, what this team REALLY needs is an 80-year old white male who got fired from his last gig . . .


No twisting of facts here. So contract running out is fired? Not to mention West has brought several championships as GM. Got us Kobe and Shaq as FA which led to another 4 after he left(was part of 2000 one).

Those who bash Magic doesn't rate Luke or Pelinka either. Let's not also forget Phil got killed by NY media when he was doing a terrible job just like Zeke.
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