Muscala is gonna prove everyone wrong
Goto page Previous  1, 2, 3, 4
 
Post new topic    LakersGround.net Forum Index -> LA Lakers Lounge Reply to topic
View previous topic :: View next topic  
Author Message
lakersfan8
Star Player
Star Player


Joined: 27 May 2014
Posts: 2991

PostPosted: Fri Feb 08, 2019 12:02 am    Post subject:

Judah wrote:
MJST wrote:
The Lakers did it because Zubac was the next in a long list of young talent that plays better than the Lakers want to pay them for their 'max plans' and so they got rid of him for somebody they have no intention of bringing back next year.

That's all the Lakers care about whether it makes sense or not.

"You'll see! All this will equal a max this off-season you'll see!!" is their mentality.

The mentality that we crucified Jim and Mitch for sticking to for so long.

Is now the mentality that people relentlessly defend the current FO for having even when it costs us good players that we didn't have to get rid of.

I certainly wouldn't say that I've agreed with every decision they've made so far or how they've gone about it. And though shooting was an urgent need that had to be shored up before the deadline, I think they could've fetched more for Zubac than this in a trade. But at the same time, I don't think they were intent on trading him just to avoid the complicated decisions surrounding his future with the team and how much they should pay him. I think they simply knew that they needed to address the shooting woes in order to give themselves a better shot at making the playoffs, and to do that, someone with decent/good value had to be sacrificed, and it ended up being Zubac. It sucks, but it is what it is.

But part of the reason why you're so upset about this is because you simply refuse to accept that the rebuild is over. You’ve been in a very deliberate denial about it ever since July 1. This is not about building around the young core and rolling with the youth movement anymore. This would have stung a lot less for you if you had come to terms with that. They're not going miss out on an opportunity to sign another star to join LeBron just so they could pay a non-star like Zubac. Frankly, now that LeBron is here, it would actually be pretty stupid to not position themselves for another star. It's about winning now, not development. Again, whether or not you accept that is up to you, but you're doing yourself no favors by wallowing in the decisions they made that you don't agree with. No one wants to hear you whine about Russell, Randle, and Zubac for the next three years. Just get over it, man, and accept that this is not a rebuild anymore, and it's impossible at this point to reverse course. It's over with.

Even if we don’t want to rebuild, it is a different argument to trade a prospect for less value in return. Knicks traded Porzingis for unprotected picks. I’m not saying Zubac has equal value but at least Magic need to evaluate Zubac’s trade value. It seems to me once Magic decides a player is redundant, he is satisfied with any value in return. Few days ago we used Zubac as a core piece in AD’s trade and then now he became worthless. What happens if no max free agent comes this summer? Extending Zubac could be a plan B and we can trade him for good value via trade later.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Reply with quote
MJST
Retired Number
Retired Number


Joined: 06 Jul 2014
Posts: 26091

PostPosted: Fri Feb 08, 2019 12:06 am    Post subject:

Precisely. Like if we traded Kyle Kuzma for Stanley Johnson and someone went "that was stupid, why the heck did we do that?"

Are they just being negative? or do they think we didn't get solid value back or made a dumb move in general?

Calling a spade a spade doesn't mean there's some 'deep seeded reason for it.' Sometimes it's as basic as 'that was a very dumb idea/bad trade'.


lakersfan8 wrote:

Even if we don’t want to rebuild, it is a different argument to trade a prospect for less value in return. Knicks traded Porzingis for unprotected picks. I’m not saying Zubac has equal value but at least Magic need to evaluate Zubac’s trade value. It seems to me once Magic decides a player is redundant, he is satisfied with any value in return. Few days ago we used Zubac as a core piece in AD’s trade and then now he became worthless. What happens if no max free agent comes this summer? Extending Zubac could be a plan B and we can trade him for good value via trade later.


Yep, but they don't keep options open for if a max free agent doesn't come because they assume it's written. And that's the biggest problem
_________________
How NBA 2K18 failed the All-Time Lakers:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kxMBYm3wwxk
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Reply with quote
Coppertop
Starting Rotation
Starting Rotation


Joined: 24 Apr 2005
Posts: 354

PostPosted: Fri Feb 08, 2019 12:11 am    Post subject:

I’ll miss Zu, and it seems like we sold low on him, but...

What’s most frustrating to me is that Zu and his unique contract situation could’ve been helpful in getting AD or a third star.

Scenario:

-Lakers renounce all free agents but Zu’s super low $1.9M caphold
-Lakers sign a star free agent at max OR sign several players, using up cap space.
-Lakers then resign Zu (or match an offer on him) for any amount they want. Let’s say $8-10M for kicks.
-Fast forward to Dec, Zu is now a useful trade chip (both potential and contract) to include in a deal for AD (wherever he is).

That scenario is dead. Boo. Hiss.

Best of luck, Zu!
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Reply with quote
Coppertop
Starting Rotation
Starting Rotation


Joined: 24 Apr 2005
Posts: 354

PostPosted: Fri Feb 08, 2019 12:13 am    Post subject:

Oops, sorry Lakersfan8! Didn’t see you had said the same exact thing 😐!
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Reply with quote
Judah
Star Player
Star Player


Joined: 23 Jun 2015
Posts: 4759

PostPosted: Fri Feb 08, 2019 12:15 am    Post subject:

MJST wrote:
Judah wrote:


But part of the reason why you're so upset about this is because you simply refuse to accept that the rebuild is over.


It has nothing to do with that and everything to do with it being a bad decision and a terrible trade off of talent.

Trading Zubac for Muscala is upsetting for every logical reason and you don't need to put "cause we're not rebuilding" as any of them.

the Qualifying offer for Zubac wasn't gonna knock us out of our "max contract" chances this off-season, trying to act like Zubac was about to get a big contract on the market will just put you further off the mark. We were positioned just fine.

If that statement wasn't intended to be hyperbole, it only illustrates my point. Zubac was one of your favorite players. I get it. But to say there was no logic to this whatsoever is difficult to take seriously. This team needed shooting, like badly. Bringing in these two guys is going to be a big help. It isn't totally unreasonable to trade one role player for another if there was an area that desperately needed to be upgraded. And there's no doubt that Zubac is a much better player than MM is, but there is still logic to this move. I don't know if MM will be able to contribute consistently as a shooter, but if does and the team significantly improves in their shooting and it gets them to the playoffs, I would say it was worth it.
_________________
“Christ did not die to forgive sinners who go on treasuring anything above seeing and savoring God. And people who would be happy in heaven if Christ were not there, will not be there."
- John Piper
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Reply with quote
lakersfan8
Star Player
Star Player


Joined: 27 May 2014
Posts: 2991

PostPosted: Fri Feb 08, 2019 12:18 am    Post subject:

CervantesRises wrote:
MJST wrote:
Judah wrote:


But part of the reason why you're so upset about this is because you simply refuse to accept that the rebuild is over.


It has nothing to do with that and everything to do with it being a bad decision and a terrible trade off of talent.

Trading Zubac for Muscala is upsetting for every logical reason and you don't need to put "cause we're not rebuilding" as any of them.

the Qualifying offer for Zubac wasn't gonna knock us out of our "max contract" chances this off-season, trying to act like Zubac was about to get a big contract on the market will just put you further off the mark. We were positioned just fine.


Let's see what Zu gets this offseason...I think he's going to do very well, like 8 to 10 mil on a 3 year deal range...we weren't going to give him

Do you think Muscala can get that kind of offer? If not, why couldn’t we get something more in return? Why did we let the Clippers took advantage of us and clearly get a better player in this trade?
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Reply with quote
Judah
Star Player
Star Player


Joined: 23 Jun 2015
Posts: 4759

PostPosted: Fri Feb 08, 2019 12:32 am    Post subject:

lakersfan8 wrote:
Judah wrote:
MJST wrote:
The Lakers did it because Zubac was the next in a long list of young talent that plays better than the Lakers want to pay them for their 'max plans' and so they got rid of him for somebody they have no intention of bringing back next year.

That's all the Lakers care about whether it makes sense or not.

"You'll see! All this will equal a max this off-season you'll see!!" is their mentality.

The mentality that we crucified Jim and Mitch for sticking to for so long.

Is now the mentality that people relentlessly defend the current FO for having even when it costs us good players that we didn't have to get rid of.

I certainly wouldn't say that I've agreed with every decision they've made so far or how they've gone about it. And though shooting was an urgent need that had to be shored up before the deadline, I think they could've fetched more for Zubac than this in a trade. But at the same time, I don't think they were intent on trading him just to avoid the complicated decisions surrounding his future with the team and how much they should pay him. I think they simply knew that they needed to address the shooting woes in order to give themselves a better shot at making the playoffs, and to do that, someone with decent/good value had to be sacrificed, and it ended up being Zubac. It sucks, but it is what it is.

But part of the reason why you're so upset about this is because you simply refuse to accept that the rebuild is over. You’ve been in a very deliberate denial about it ever since July 1. This is not about building around the young core and rolling with the youth movement anymore. This would have stung a lot less for you if you had come to terms with that. They're not going miss out on an opportunity to sign another star to join LeBron just so they could pay a non-star like Zubac. Frankly, now that LeBron is here, it would actually be pretty stupid to not position themselves for another star. It's about winning now, not development. Again, whether or not you accept that is up to you, but you're doing yourself no favors by wallowing in the decisions they made that you don't agree with. No one wants to hear you whine about Russell, Randle, and Zubac for the next three years. Just get over it, man, and accept that this is not a rebuild anymore, and it's impossible at this point to reverse course. It's over with.

Even if we don’t want to rebuild, it is a different argument to trade a prospect for less value in return. Knicks traded Porzingis for unprotected picks. I’m not saying Zubac has equal value but at least Magic need to evaluate Zubac’s trade value. It seems to me once Magic decides a player is redundant, he is satisfied with any value in return. Few days ago we used Zubac as a core piece in AD’s trade and then now he became worthless. What happens if no max free agent comes this summer? Extending Zubac could be a plan B and we can trade him for good value via trade later.

I acknowledged at the very beginning of my post that I believe Zubac’s trade value was better than what this deal represents. Nothing I said was inconsistent with that. What I said about accepting that the rebuild is over was not my attempt at rationalizing this move. That's not the basis I was using to understand it at all. The point I was making about the rebuild being over was only directed at MJST because of the way he reasons. He hasn't accepted that the rebuild is over. Thus, he incessantly criticizes the FO for pursuing the stars instead of holding onto his favorite young players and letting them develop.
_________________
“Christ did not die to forgive sinners who go on treasuring anything above seeing and savoring God. And people who would be happy in heaven if Christ were not there, will not be there."
- John Piper
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Reply with quote
miggz23
Star Player
Star Player


Joined: 29 Nov 2018
Posts: 6566

PostPosted: Fri Feb 08, 2019 1:10 am    Post subject:

Decent guy off the bench... His a hustle guy and does some dirty work. Stretches the floor and can knock down shots. A lot more mobile on defense.





Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Reply with quote
lakersfan8
Star Player
Star Player


Joined: 27 May 2014
Posts: 2991

PostPosted: Fri Feb 08, 2019 1:28 am    Post subject:

Judah wrote:
lakersfan8 wrote:
Judah wrote:
MJST wrote:
The Lakers did it because Zubac was the next in a long list of young talent that plays better than the Lakers want to pay them for their 'max plans' and so they got rid of him for somebody they have no intention of bringing back next year.

That's all the Lakers care about whether it makes sense or not.

"You'll see! All this will equal a max this off-season you'll see!!" is their mentality.

The mentality that we crucified Jim and Mitch for sticking to for so long.

Is now the mentality that people relentlessly defend the current FO for having even when it costs us good players that we didn't have to get rid of.

I certainly wouldn't say that I've agreed with every decision they've made so far or how they've gone about it. And though shooting was an urgent need that had to be shored up before the deadline, I think they could've fetched more for Zubac than this in a trade. But at the same time, I don't think they were intent on trading him just to avoid the complicated decisions surrounding his future with the team and how much they should pay him. I think they simply knew that they needed to address the shooting woes in order to give themselves a better shot at making the playoffs, and to do that, someone with decent/good value had to be sacrificed, and it ended up being Zubac. It sucks, but it is what it is.

But part of the reason why you're so upset about this is because you simply refuse to accept that the rebuild is over. You’ve been in a very deliberate denial about it ever since July 1. This is not about building around the young core and rolling with the youth movement anymore. This would have stung a lot less for you if you had come to terms with that. They're not going miss out on an opportunity to sign another star to join LeBron just so they could pay a non-star like Zubac. Frankly, now that LeBron is here, it would actually be pretty stupid to not position themselves for another star. It's about winning now, not development. Again, whether or not you accept that is up to you, but you're doing yourself no favors by wallowing in the decisions they made that you don't agree with. No one wants to hear you whine about Russell, Randle, and Zubac for the next three years. Just get over it, man, and accept that this is not a rebuild anymore, and it's impossible at this point to reverse course. It's over with.

Even if we don’t want to rebuild, it is a different argument to trade a prospect for less value in return. Knicks traded Porzingis for unprotected picks. I’m not saying Zubac has equal value but at least Magic need to evaluate Zubac’s trade value. It seems to me once Magic decides a player is redundant, he is satisfied with any value in return. Few days ago we used Zubac as a core piece in AD’s trade and then now he became worthless. What happens if no max free agent comes this summer? Extending Zubac could be a plan B and we can trade him for good value via trade later.

I acknowledged at the very beginning of my post that I believe Zubac’s trade value was better than what this deal represents. Nothing I said was inconsistent with that. What I said about accepting that the rebuild is over was not my attempt at rationalizing this move. That's not the basis I was using to understand it at all. The point I was making about the rebuild being over was only directed at MJST because of the way he reasons. He hasn't accepted that the rebuild is over. Thus, he incessantly criticizes the FO for pursuing the stars instead of holding onto his favorite young players and letting them develop.

Yes you did. Just realised that. Sorry my bad.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Reply with quote
CervantesRises
Star Player
Star Player


Joined: 18 Jun 2016
Posts: 3914

PostPosted: Fri Feb 08, 2019 1:29 am    Post subject:

lakersfan8 wrote:
CervantesRises wrote:
MJST wrote:
Judah wrote:


But part of the reason why you're so upset about this is because you simply refuse to accept that the rebuild is over.


It has nothing to do with that and everything to do with it being a bad decision and a terrible trade off of talent.

Trading Zubac for Muscala is upsetting for every logical reason and you don't need to put "cause we're not rebuilding" as any of them.

the Qualifying offer for Zubac wasn't gonna knock us out of our "max contract" chances this off-season, trying to act like Zubac was about to get a big contract on the market will just put you further off the mark. We were positioned just fine.


Let's see what Zu gets this offseason...I think he's going to do very well, like 8 to 10 mil on a 3 year deal range...we weren't going to give him

Do you think Muscala can get that kind of offer? If not, why couldn’t we get something more in return? Why did we let the Clippers took advantage of us and clearly get a better player in this trade?


I think the move was to eject Beas after that last locker room altercation, but to do it with class personally. Guy goes off on the HC...can't let that stand for a bench guy that isn't always in the rotation after we gave him unlimited time off for his mom and he's on a 1 year deal. You don't address that and the rest of the team falls apart.

Now you could make the argument that we could have just let him go, but this way both guys get to play in LA and they will get a lot of playing time. Zu is going to make some money that we were not going to pay him.

We are one of the worst 3 point shooting teams in the nba and we got 2 guys that have a history of shooting it well. One as a potential starter and one to absorb some back up minutes. It is a short term move to make the playoffs and get everyone some much needed PO run.

We will also add a player with the open roster spot so if you look at the net of RB, MM, and player added vs Zu, Beas, Svi and a 2021 2nd...it's a wash that is short term to improve our 3pt shooting and FTs...nothing to get bent out of shape over.

We have to make the playoffs and make up a lot of games in a short period of time. That means more minutes for TC and JM...we weren't playing 3 centers that all have the same 10 ft and in offensive game.

before Zu had a good stretch of about 25 games would any of us really care about this?
_________________
"If You're Afraid To Fail...Then You're Probably Going To Fail."
- Kobe

#BannersOverBillboards
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Reply with quote
lakersfan8
Star Player
Star Player


Joined: 27 May 2014
Posts: 2991

PostPosted: Fri Feb 08, 2019 2:56 am    Post subject:

CervantesRises wrote:
lakersfan8 wrote:
CervantesRises wrote:
MJST wrote:
Judah wrote:


But part of the reason why you're so upset about this is because you simply refuse to accept that the rebuild is over.


It has nothing to do with that and everything to do with it being a bad decision and a terrible trade off of talent.

Trading Zubac for Muscala is upsetting for every logical reason and you don't need to put "cause we're not rebuilding" as any of them.

the Qualifying offer for Zubac wasn't gonna knock us out of our "max contract" chances this off-season, trying to act like Zubac was about to get a big contract on the market will just put you further off the mark. We were positioned just fine.


Let's see what Zu gets this offseason...I think he's going to do very well, like 8 to 10 mil on a 3 year deal range...we weren't going to give him

Do you think Muscala can get that kind of offer? If not, why couldn’t we get something more in return? Why did we let the Clippers took advantage of us and clearly get a better player in this trade?


I think the move was to eject Beas after that last locker room altercation, but to do it with class personally. Guy goes off on the HC...can't let that stand for a bench guy that isn't always in the rotation after we gave him unlimited time off for his mom and he's on a 1 year deal. You don't address that and the rest of the team falls apart.

Now you could make the argument that we could have just let him go, but this way both guys get to play in LA and they will get a lot of playing time. Zu is going to make some money that we were not going to pay him.

We are one of the worst 3 point shooting teams in the nba and we got 2 guys that have a history of shooting it well. One as a potential starter and one to absorb some back up minutes. It is a short term move to make the playoffs and get everyone some much needed PO run.

We will also add a player with the open roster spot so if you look at the net of RB, MM, and player added vs Zu, Beas, Svi and a 2021 2nd...it's a wash that is short term to improve our 3pt shooting and FTs...nothing to get bent out of shape over.

We have to make the playoffs and make up a lot of games in a short period of time. That means more minutes for TC and JM...we weren't playing 3 centers that all have the same 10 ft and in offensive game.

before Zu had a good stretch of about 25 games would any of us really care about this?

So Magic sighed the wrong fee agent in the summer and has to correct that mistake by sacrificing a young prospect? Beasley only makes veteran minimum and he deserves to be reaieased after going off on Luke. I would just release him if that means I can get something else in return from Zubac. I know we need shooters because Magic neglect that issue in the summer and I am not against trading Zubac but at least we should get something equal value in return.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Reply with quote
Display posts from previous:   
Post new topic    LakersGround.net Forum Index -> LA Lakers Lounge All times are GMT - 8 Hours
Goto page Previous  1, 2, 3, 4
Page 4 of 4
Jump to:  

 
You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum






Graphics by uberzev
© 1995-2018 LakersGround.net. All Rights Reserved. Privacy Policy. Terms of Use.
LakersGround is an unofficial news source serving the fan community since 1995.
We are in no way associated with the Los Angeles Lakers or the National Basketball Association.


Powered by phpBB