|
| View previous topic :: View next topic |
| Author |
Message |
WindyCityLakerFan
Star Player
Joined: 18 Jul 2002
Posts: 1537
Location: Chicago
|
 Posted: Tue Feb 05, 2019 1:05 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| drae wrote: | | Why would you deal Ingram for a Cousins who possible would never have returned the same? It's stupid. GSW could afford to take the risk because they have a stable of all stars |
The trade was with the kings before he was traded to New Orleans |
|
| Back to top |
|
 |
Aeneas Hunter
Retired Number
Joined: 12 Jul 2005
Posts: 31763
|
| Posted: Tue Feb 05, 2019 1:06 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| yinoma2001 wrote: | | Aeneas Hunter wrote: | Lesson #1: If you engage in tampering -- whether technically illegal or just deep into the gray area -- you are not going to make friends with other teams. As I said about a week ago, it is one thing to unsettle a player through tampering. It is another thing to persuade his team to trade him to you right after you screwed them.
Lesson #2: If we want to trade for a superstar, we must either (1) have a great relationship with the other front office, as Mitch and Dr. Buss did with Memphis, or (2) have an actual star quality player in our package going back, even if he is a lesser star. If any of our kids had emerged to the extent of Russell with the Nets (an all-star, albeit marginal), this would have been a different negotiation. |
Good and fair points. But I also do think there is resentment against the team that clouds good faith deals.
I'm sure teams that have competed in small markets and methodically built up their teams are not eager to deal with Magic/Rob who are basically NBA front office carpetbaggers who nabbed LBJ. |
That is a corollary to Lesson #1. When you do the things that Magic has been doing, you are going to offend even the people who you haven't screwed yet. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
The Juggernaut
Star Player
Joined: 24 Aug 2017
Posts: 4572
|
| Posted: Tue Feb 05, 2019 1:07 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| WindyCityLakerFan wrote: | | The Juggernaut wrote: | | yinoma2001 wrote: | | The Juggernaut wrote: | | yinoma2001 wrote: | | Quote: | | It actually is. Look at the Kevin Love trade. BI's rookie season was comparable to Anthony Bennett's rookie year. Wiggins was the #1 pick that year, we had the #2 pick. Also, PG>Love |
I think by the time Bennett was included, he wasn't considered a top pick and widely panned as a bust. BI had strong value as the Kings wanted him for Boogie. |
Eh, it was close. They both had atrocious rookie seasons. Wiggins was the freaking HIGHLY touted #1 pick that was way more hyped than Zo. They would have been very similar trades value wise. |
Right but I'm talking about BI + 2nd pick. In no way is Bennett valued (and Boogie set a value for BI) comparably with BI at the time. |
No, you're wrong about the value. Please show me the Kings would do BI for Boogie.
Bennett was a former #1 pick coming off a terrible rookie season. Wiggins was the clear cut current #1 pick who was valued around the league way above Zo and BI were coming out
Ingram was the #2 pick coming off a bad rookie year. Zo was floating around top 4 in the mock drafts. Not nearly at Wiggins level coming out.
Both trades were evenly matched for what they would net: Prime All NBA talent. |
https://www.cbssports.com/nba/news/report-lakers-had-shot-at-demarcus-cousins-but-wouldnt-part-with-brandon-ingram/
Before the mammoth trade that paired Cousins with New Orleans Pelicans All-Star Anthony Davis, Sacramento Kings GM Vlade Divac reached out to Johnson to gauge the team’s interest in acquiring its three-time All-Star.
Johnson, who was only a team consultant at the time, referred Divac to Kupchak, according to Shelburne, since he did not have the authority to discuss trades with opposing executives.
Divac had ownership approval to trade Cousins in a deal that landed Lakers’ rookie Brandon Ingram or New Orleans Pelicans rookie Buddy Hield, per Shelburne. Johnson never heard back from Lakers management regarding a Cousins trade.
Writes Shelburne:
But by the time the Lakers got involved, Divac and Pelicans general manager Dell Demps, both in New Orleans for the All-Star Game, had met four or five times in person to discuss a deal, sources told ESPN's Marc Stein. He was negotiating over the phone with Buss and Kupchak — despite the fact that Magic was in New Orleans that weekend for ESPN.
Los Angeles did, in fact, discuss a trade for Cousins, but would not include the rookie Ingram in their offer, according to The Vertical’s Adrian Wojnarowski. Sacramento then shifted its focus to getting a deal done with New Orleans — they received Hield, Tyreke Evans, Langston Galloway, and a 2017 first- and second-round pick. |
The trade wouldn't have been for just Ingram straight up though. It would have been a combination of BI, JR, Dlo, and picks. Sounds like the value of BI was similar to what Indy assessed. Should have given up BI +#2 pick for PG. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
PhiberOptik
Star Player
Joined: 25 Aug 2003
Posts: 4255
Location: San Francisco, CA
|
| Posted: Tue Feb 05, 2019 1:10 pm Post subject: |
|
|
Moral of the story: Don't force things. Let chemistry build organically. Team chemistry is the foundation of a championship team, hence "The Journey".
Now we are -100 in chemistry and it will be a rough going forward. LBJ lost a lot of confidence points from the men he is trying to lead (or trade).
_________________
Let's Go Lakers!!! |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
WindyCityLakerFan
Star Player
Joined: 18 Jul 2002
Posts: 1537
Location: Chicago
|
| Posted: Tue Feb 05, 2019 1:19 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| The Juggernaut wrote: | | WindyCityLakerFan wrote: | | The Juggernaut wrote: | | yinoma2001 wrote: | | The Juggernaut wrote: | | yinoma2001 wrote: | | Quote: | | It actually is. Look at the Kevin Love trade. BI's rookie season was comparable to Anthony Bennett's rookie year. Wiggins was the #1 pick that year, we had the #2 pick. Also, PG>Love |
I think by the time Bennett was included, he wasn't considered a top pick and widely panned as a bust. BI had strong value as the Kings wanted him for Boogie. |
Eh, it was close. They both had atrocious rookie seasons. Wiggins was the freaking HIGHLY touted #1 pick that was way more hyped than Zo. They would have been very similar trades value wise. |
Right but I'm talking about BI + 2nd pick. In no way is Bennett valued (and Boogie set a value for BI) comparably with BI at the time. |
No, you're wrong about the value. Please show me the Kings would do BI for Boogie.
Bennett was a former #1 pick coming off a terrible rookie season. Wiggins was the clear cut current #1 pick who was valued around the league way above Zo and BI were coming out
Ingram was the #2 pick coming off a bad rookie year. Zo was floating around top 4 in the mock drafts. Not nearly at Wiggins level coming out.
Both trades were evenly matched for what they would net: Prime All NBA talent. |
https://www.cbssports.com/nba/news/report-lakers-had-shot-at-demarcus-cousins-but-wouldnt-part-with-brandon-ingram/
Before the mammoth trade that paired Cousins with New Orleans Pelicans All-Star Anthony Davis, Sacramento Kings GM Vlade Divac reached out to Johnson to gauge the team’s interest in acquiring its three-time All-Star.
Johnson, who was only a team consultant at the time, referred Divac to Kupchak, according to Shelburne, since he did not have the authority to discuss trades with opposing executives.
Divac had ownership approval to trade Cousins in a deal that landed Lakers’ rookie Brandon Ingram or New Orleans Pelicans rookie Buddy Hield, per Shelburne. Johnson never heard back from Lakers management regarding a Cousins trade.
Writes Shelburne:
But by the time the Lakers got involved, Divac and Pelicans general manager Dell Demps, both in New Orleans for the All-Star Game, had met four or five times in person to discuss a deal, sources told ESPN's Marc Stein. He was negotiating over the phone with Buss and Kupchak — despite the fact that Magic was in New Orleans that weekend for ESPN.
Los Angeles did, in fact, discuss a trade for Cousins, but would not include the rookie Ingram in their offer, according to The Vertical’s Adrian Wojnarowski. Sacramento then shifted its focus to getting a deal done with New Orleans — they received Hield, Tyreke Evans, Langston Galloway, and a 2017 first- and second-round pick. |
The trade wouldn't have been for just Ingram straight up though. It would have been a combination of BI, JR, Dlo, and picks. Sounds like the value of BI was similar to what Indy assessed. Should have given up BI +#2 pick for PG. |
Rumor was jimbo and Mitch offered Randle and clarkson. You could have did Clarkson and Ingram |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
The Lebrons
Star Player
Joined: 30 Mar 2009
Posts: 4778
|
| Posted: Tue Feb 05, 2019 1:19 pm Post subject: |
|
|
Moral of the story: stars need to demand a trade to a non-Laker team and state they will not sign an extension with anyone else. Insert Lakers.  |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
LakerLanny
Retired Number
Joined: 24 Oct 2001
Posts: 47589
|
| Posted: Tue Feb 05, 2019 1:21 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| PhiberOptik wrote: | Moral of the story: Don't force things. Let chemistry build organically. Team chemistry is the foundation of a championship team, hence "The Journey".
Now we are -100 in chemistry and it will be a rough going forward. LBJ lost a lot of confidence points from the men he is trying to lead (or trade). |
Sorry, but this is professional sports. If our guys are so weak minded that trade rumors impact their play, it tells me what I need to know.
_________________
Love, Laker Lanny |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
The Juggernaut
Star Player
Joined: 24 Aug 2017
Posts: 4572
|
| Posted: Tue Feb 05, 2019 1:22 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| WindyCityLakerFan wrote: | | The Juggernaut wrote: | | WindyCityLakerFan wrote: | | The Juggernaut wrote: | | yinoma2001 wrote: | | The Juggernaut wrote: | | yinoma2001 wrote: | | Quote: | | It actually is. Look at the Kevin Love trade. BI's rookie season was comparable to Anthony Bennett's rookie year. Wiggins was the #1 pick that year, we had the #2 pick. Also, PG>Love |
I think by the time Bennett was included, he wasn't considered a top pick and widely panned as a bust. BI had strong value as the Kings wanted him for Boogie. |
Eh, it was close. They both had atrocious rookie seasons. Wiggins was the freaking HIGHLY touted #1 pick that was way more hyped than Zo. They would have been very similar trades value wise. |
Right but I'm talking about BI + 2nd pick. In no way is Bennett valued (and Boogie set a value for BI) comparably with BI at the time. |
No, you're wrong about the value. Please show me the Kings would do BI for Boogie.
Bennett was a former #1 pick coming off a terrible rookie season. Wiggins was the clear cut current #1 pick who was valued around the league way above Zo and BI were coming out
Ingram was the #2 pick coming off a bad rookie year. Zo was floating around top 4 in the mock drafts. Not nearly at Wiggins level coming out.
Both trades were evenly matched for what they would net: Prime All NBA talent. |
https://www.cbssports.com/nba/news/report-lakers-had-shot-at-demarcus-cousins-but-wouldnt-part-with-brandon-ingram/
Before the mammoth trade that paired Cousins with New Orleans Pelicans All-Star Anthony Davis, Sacramento Kings GM Vlade Divac reached out to Johnson to gauge the team’s interest in acquiring its three-time All-Star.
Johnson, who was only a team consultant at the time, referred Divac to Kupchak, according to Shelburne, since he did not have the authority to discuss trades with opposing executives.
Divac had ownership approval to trade Cousins in a deal that landed Lakers’ rookie Brandon Ingram or New Orleans Pelicans rookie Buddy Hield, per Shelburne. Johnson never heard back from Lakers management regarding a Cousins trade.
Writes Shelburne:
But by the time the Lakers got involved, Divac and Pelicans general manager Dell Demps, both in New Orleans for the All-Star Game, had met four or five times in person to discuss a deal, sources told ESPN's Marc Stein. He was negotiating over the phone with Buss and Kupchak — despite the fact that Magic was in New Orleans that weekend for ESPN.
Los Angeles did, in fact, discuss a trade for Cousins, but would not include the rookie Ingram in their offer, according to The Vertical’s Adrian Wojnarowski. Sacramento then shifted its focus to getting a deal done with New Orleans — they received Hield, Tyreke Evans, Langston Galloway, and a 2017 first- and second-round pick. |
The trade wouldn't have been for just Ingram straight up though. It would have been a combination of BI, JR, Dlo, and picks. Sounds like the value of BI was similar to what Indy assessed. Should have given up BI +#2 pick for PG. |
Rumor was jimbo and Mitch offered Randle and clarkson. You could have did Clarkson and Ingram |
Rumor was they offered Dlo & Randle but Kings wanted BI + one of Dlo/JR + picks.
https://www.silverscreenandroll.com/2017/3/8/14857890/la-lakers-trade-rumors-demarcus-cousins-dangelo-russell-julius-randle-brandon-ingram |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
activeverb
Retired Number
Joined: 17 Jun 2006
Posts: 37470
|
| Posted: Tue Feb 05, 2019 1:48 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| yinoma2001 wrote: |
But the sentiment exists, most recently with Sarver apparently saying he wouldn't trade Ariza to the Lakers b/c...they're the Lakers. |
There was one report that Sarver refused to trade Ariza to the Lakers. That was followed by other reports that the Suns were were happy to make a trade but they simply didn't want the Lakers offer of KCP and were asking for Hart. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
lakers4life78
Star Player
Joined: 09 Apr 2012
Posts: 1971
Location: Southern California
|
| Posted: Tue Feb 05, 2019 1:55 pm Post subject: |
|
|
Moral of the story is you have no control over what another franchise will or won't do with a player. That's why these trade demands are a pile of garbage. Teams will do what they deem best for them. So far none of these guys (Butler, George, Leonard) have gone to any of the teams on their preferred lists.
You have your 38 million in cap space, some assets, some picks. Play the summer card and move the f on.
_________________
17 time World Champions |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
yinoma2001
Retired Number
Joined: 19 Jun 2010
Posts: 119487
|
| Posted: Tue Feb 05, 2019 1:57 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| activeverb wrote: | | yinoma2001 wrote: |
But the sentiment exists, most recently with Sarver apparently saying he wouldn't trade Ariza to the Lakers b/c...they're the Lakers. |
There was one report that Sarver refused to trade Ariza to the Lakers. That was followed by other reports that the Suns were were happy to make a trade but they simply didn't want the Lakers offer of KCP and were asking for Hart. |
Of course they'd add that b/c it's a terrible look for Sarver (who is already a garbage owner).
_________________
From 2-10 to the Western Conference Finals |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
activeverb
Retired Number
Joined: 17 Jun 2006
Posts: 37470
|
| Posted: Tue Feb 05, 2019 2:02 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| LakerLanny wrote: | | PhiberOptik wrote: | Moral of the story: Don't force things. Let chemistry build organically. Team chemistry is the foundation of a championship team, hence "The Journey".
Now we are -100 in chemistry and it will be a rough going forward. LBJ lost a lot of confidence points from the men he is trying to lead (or trade). |
Sorry, but this is professional sports. If our guys are so weak minded that trade rumors impact their play, it tells me what I need to know. |
Yeah, I don't know where this is coming from. People seem to think the NBA is a park league where you have to protect kids feeling from being hurt by being picked last.
Players come and players go. That's the nature of the league. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
numero-ocho
Franchise Player
Joined: 27 Jul 2004
Posts: 18225
Location: Los Angeles, CA
|
| Posted: Tue Feb 05, 2019 2:05 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| sogood. wrote: | Real moral of the story:
Draft better. |
_________________
"Suck it up. Don't be a baby. Do your job." - Kobe Bryant |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Runway8
Franchise Player
Joined: 19 Apr 2003
Posts: 22857
Location: La Jolla, San Diego
|
| Posted: Tue Feb 05, 2019 2:11 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| The age of technology has actually hurt the Lakers. So easy to leak, spin and have the entire NBA hearing in, persuade, influence, collude, giving their unsolicited opinions, etc. Now the Davids of the league are afraid to deal with Goliath, unless they get consensus approval. It's like buying product nowadays, most of us can't make a purchase unless Amazon reviews says it's good. LOL! |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
yinoma2001
Retired Number
Joined: 19 Jun 2010
Posts: 119487
|
| Posted: Tue Feb 05, 2019 2:13 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| numero-ocho wrote: | | sogood. wrote: | Real moral of the story:
Draft better. |
|
We won't have 3 #2s again...probably ever.
So far:
DLO-all star
BI-?
Lonzo-?
_________________
From 2-10 to the Western Conference Finals |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
danzag
Franchise Player
Joined: 28 Apr 2013
Posts: 22385
Location: Brazil
|
| Posted: Tue Feb 05, 2019 2:15 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| yinoma2001 wrote: | | numero-ocho wrote: | | sogood. wrote: | Real moral of the story:
Draft better. |
|
We won't have 3 #2s again...probably ever.
So far:
DLO-all star
BI-?
Lonzo-? |
I still think BI and Lonzo will be All-stars someday |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
activeverb
Retired Number
Joined: 17 Jun 2006
Posts: 37470
|
| Posted: Tue Feb 05, 2019 2:20 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| yinoma2001 wrote: | | activeverb wrote: | | yinoma2001 wrote: |
But the sentiment exists, most recently with Sarver apparently saying he wouldn't trade Ariza to the Lakers b/c...they're the Lakers. |
There was one report that Sarver refused to trade Ariza to the Lakers. That was followed by other reports that the Suns were were happy to make a trade but they simply didn't want the Lakers offer of KCP and were asking for Hart. |
Of course they'd add that b/c it's a terrible look for Sarver (who is already a garbage owner). |
The point is there are always a bunch of anonymous, and often contradictory rumors, and we don't know what the real truth is. So just picking the rumor you like, and ignoring the rumor you don't like, doesn't make a strong case. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
activeverb
Retired Number
Joined: 17 Jun 2006
Posts: 37470
|
| Posted: Tue Feb 05, 2019 2:58 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| Runway8 wrote: | | The age of technology has actually hurt the Lakers. So easy to leak, spin and have the entire NBA hearing in, persuade, influence, collude, giving their unsolicited opinions, etc. Now the Davids of the league are afraid to deal with Goliath, unless they get consensus approval. It's like buying product nowadays, most of us can't make a purchase unless Amazon reviews says it's good. LOL! |
Or it may simply make Lakers fans feel better to believe that teams won't trade with us on principle rather than think they would trade with us but aren't impressed with the players we have to offer. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Lakeshow323
Star Player
Joined: 17 Nov 2016
Posts: 1277
Location: LA
|
| Posted: Tue Feb 05, 2019 3:28 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| The Juggernaut wrote: | Pacers were down to trade PG here for BI and our #2 pick. Magic wouldnt budge on including Ingram in the deal because he thought PG was 100% signing with us. That was a big mistake looking back on it.
| Quote: | Although George's feelings could change, especially if he is traded to a team he likes, the Lakers aren't willing to part with too much to trade for him. Second-year forward Brandon Ingram, a favorite of the Lakers' coaching staff, has caught Indiana's eye, but is off limits. Without the help of a third team, the Lakers weren't willing to part with the No. 2 overall pick before the draft — the pick they used to take former UCLA star Lonzo Ball.
|
https://www.latimes.com/sports/lakers/la-sp-lakers-free-agency-20170629-story.html
Spurs and NOP were definitely stringing us along though. |
Considering what OKC gave them, that's way too high of a price, good on Magic. Pacers didn't even get a pick in the trade, let alone a #2! |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Sentient Meat
Franchise Player
Joined: 04 Jul 2014
Posts: 12978
|
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Runway8
Franchise Player
Joined: 19 Apr 2003
Posts: 22857
Location: La Jolla, San Diego
|
| Posted: Tue Feb 05, 2019 3:31 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| LOL at all these hindsight articles today. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
The Juggernaut
Star Player
Joined: 24 Aug 2017
Posts: 4572
|
| Posted: Tue Feb 05, 2019 4:01 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| Lakeshow323 wrote: | | The Juggernaut wrote: | Pacers were down to trade PG here for BI and our #2 pick. Magic wouldnt budge on including Ingram in the deal because he thought PG was 100% signing with us. That was a big mistake looking back on it.
| Quote: | Although George's feelings could change, especially if he is traded to a team he likes, the Lakers aren't willing to part with too much to trade for him. Second-year forward Brandon Ingram, a favorite of the Lakers' coaching staff, has caught Indiana's eye, but is off limits. Without the help of a third team, the Lakers weren't willing to part with the No. 2 overall pick before the draft — the pick they used to take former UCLA star Lonzo Ball.
|
https://www.latimes.com/sports/lakers/la-sp-lakers-free-agency-20170629-story.html
Spurs and NOP were definitely stringing us along though. |
Considering what OKC gave them, that's way too high of a price, good on Magic. Pacers didn't even get a pick in the trade, let alone a #2! |
Sabonas>Ingram
Oladipo>Zo |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
ringfinger
Retired Number
Joined: 08 Oct 2013
Posts: 29418
|
| Posted: Tue Feb 05, 2019 4:10 pm Post subject: |
|
|
Not the moral of the story.
We traded for Pau and it worked out finez
I think the moral of the story is leverage and we had none. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
activeverb
Retired Number
Joined: 17 Jun 2006
Posts: 37470
|
| Posted: Tue Feb 05, 2019 4:17 pm Post subject: |
|
|
I'd say you're focusing on the wrong things.
The Spurs and Celtics were two of the best defensive teams in history.
To me, the morale isn't that you can win with one single big scorer. It's that (1) you need a lot of talent, particularly talent that goes together well; (2) it needs to be talent that plays both ends of the court. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
TDRock
Retired Number
Joined: 27 May 2010
Posts: 49285
Location: LA to the Bay
|
| Posted: Tue Feb 05, 2019 4:25 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| I wish we wouldn’t but I know we will. Every now and then we’ll hit a homerun like LeBron I suppose... |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
|
|
You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum
|
|
