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scooterp10
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Joined: 04 Oct 2016
Posts: 961
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 Posted: Sun Feb 03, 2019 9:47 pm Post subject: Team fans vs player fans |
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| I never understood why anybody would be a fan of a player vs being a fan of a team until now because I have let myself get emotionally invested in our young guys. I’ve been a Lakers fan since I was a kid, and I enjoyed the process of watching the kids grow and develop. It is going to be strange for me to watch for a squad of hired mercenaries on one year contracts. I have a feeling I’ll see just as many Suns and Pelicans games in the near future. |
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TEEGUNN
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Joined: 12 Dec 2002
Posts: 18086
Location: rocky mountain high
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| Posted: Sun Feb 03, 2019 9:48 pm Post subject: |
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Well..... bye.
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"Why do you think bad things happen, anyway???" "So we have something good to look forward to."
Jake Speed, 1986 |
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VicXLakers
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Joined: 08 Feb 2006
Posts: 11823
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| Posted: Sun Feb 03, 2019 9:51 pm Post subject: |
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| the Melo syndrome... |
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epak
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Joined: 30 Aug 2005
Posts: 34147
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| Posted: Sun Feb 03, 2019 9:54 pm Post subject: |
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We'll miss you scooter  |
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€H£M£$TR¥
Star Player
Joined: 03 Apr 2017
Posts: 3782
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| Posted: Sun Feb 03, 2019 10:02 pm Post subject: |
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I have been a Lakers since birth, and we always go after superstars. We are the originators of the super team concept.
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DEAR BASKETBALL |
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Fortysixn2
Star Player
Joined: 22 Jun 2016
Posts: 2849
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| Posted: Sun Feb 03, 2019 10:02 pm Post subject: |
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| Eh, you are either a lakers fan or not. I like Lonzo, when he’s not a laker anymore then I’m not down with Zo. |
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818fan
Star Player
Joined: 08 Jan 2011
Posts: 4702
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| Posted: Sun Feb 03, 2019 10:06 pm Post subject: |
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| I'm a fan of the players but it's always team first |
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Dr. Laker
Franchise Player
Joined: 12 Apr 2002
Posts: 17105
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| Posted: Sun Feb 03, 2019 10:09 pm Post subject: |
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I joined my 1st fan forum in 1998 (the old CNN/SI boards) and the "Team 1st Fan vs Player 1st Fan" threads were nauseating. I joined whatever the precursor to this version of LG was in 99 or 2000, and have been on this board since Day One.
The "T1FvP1F" threads have (mercifully) lessened, but they're still nauseating.
I move that the TOS be amended to ban the creation of "Team 1st Fan vs Player 1st Fan" threads.
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On Lakersground, a concern troll is someone who is a fan of another team, but pretends to be a Lakers fan with "concerns". |
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Chronicle
Retired Number
Joined: 21 Jul 2012
Posts: 31935
Location: Manhattan
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| Posted: Sun Feb 03, 2019 11:00 pm Post subject: |
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after they rip your heart out a couple times you get used to it
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Kobe |
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blackmamba08
Star Player
Joined: 09 Jun 2015
Posts: 2608
Location: Croatia
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| Posted: Sun Feb 03, 2019 11:17 pm Post subject: |
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| First of all I am the fan of Lakers, and basically dont care that much about the players if we are winning. Only player who was above all other players was Kobe and when he left it was not easy to watch first few games of the new season after he retired. For the players at the moment I don't really care because they didn't show me so far they even deserve to wear Laker uniform. Yes that include LBJ also. |
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Laker_Town
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Joined: 26 Jun 2006
Posts: 25604
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| Posted: Sun Feb 03, 2019 11:19 pm Post subject: |
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| I'm too old for this ish |
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J.C. Smith
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Joined: 23 Jun 2005
Posts: 12670
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| Posted: Sun Feb 03, 2019 11:19 pm Post subject: |
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Why can't you be both? I certainly cheer for a lot of ex-Lakers because of their time here. At the end of the day though the goal has to be to win titles. I loved guys Nick Van Exel, Eddie Jones, Norm Nixon, A.C. Green, Lamar Odom, Pau Gasol, etc. Sometimes those guys become the cost to improve the team. It stinks when it backfires, sometimes gambles don't pay off (Kwame, Nash) and they look really bad, other times (Peeler, Lynch in salary dumps for example) they pay off.
I'd certainly like to see the Lakers establish a core though instead of the mercenary contracts. Until they find takers for their cap space though it's an unfortunate byproduct. It sucks to see Russell and Randle thriving elsewhere. It will suck to lose guys like Lonzo, Kuzma, or Ingram if they wind up being the cost to bring in Davis. But if the Lakers manage to land Davis and then find a taker for their remaining cap space this summer (or make a second trade for a star) I won't lose sleep over it. Even if it doesn't pan out and it winds up in a Nash/Howard summer situation. Every move is a calculated risk. If it's a risk worth taking, you live with the consequences.
The main thing that disturbs me though are fans who turn on players after the fact and then hope for them to fail because it justifies the move. That makes no sense to me. I hope any of these guys who gets moved goes on to have a nice career. There isn't anyone in our young core who I dislike. |
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scooterp10
Starting Rotation
Joined: 04 Oct 2016
Posts: 961
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| Posted: Sun Feb 03, 2019 11:28 pm Post subject: |
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| J.C. Smith wrote: | Why can't you be both? I certainly cheer for a lot of ex-Lakers because of their time here. At the end of the day though the goal has to be to win titles. I loved guys Nick Van Exel, Eddie Jones, Norm Nixon, A.C. Green, Lamar Odom, Pau Gasol, etc. Sometimes those guys become the cost to improve the team. It stinks when it backfires, sometimes gambles don't pay off (Kwame, Nash) and they look really bad, other times (Peeler, Lynch in salary dumps for example) they pay off.
I'd certainly like to see the Lakers establish a core though instead of the mercenary contracts. Until they find takers for their cap space though it's an unfortunate byproduct. It sucks to see Russell and Randle thriving elsewhere. It will suck to lose guys like Lonzo, Kuzma, or Ingram if they wind up being the cost to bring in Davis. But if the Lakers manage to land Davis and then find a taker for their remaining cap space this summer (or make a second trade for a star) I won't lose sleep over it. Even if it doesn't pan out and it winds up in a Nash/Howard summer situation. Every move is a calculated risk. So long as it's a smart gamble, you live with the consequences. |
This is basically what I was trying to say. I’m not saying I’m not going to be a Lakers fan if we trade away all the kids and get AD. 😂
I’m just saying for the first time on my life I understand why people say, “I’m not really a fan of the Lakers, but I’m a fan of LeBron”. I won’t be a fan of the Suns, but I’ll watch a bunch of Suns games if Lonzo is on that team. |
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activeverb
Retired Number
Joined: 17 Jun 2006
Posts: 37470
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| Posted: Sun Feb 03, 2019 11:28 pm Post subject: Re: Team fans vs player fans |
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| scooterp10 wrote: | | I never understood why anybody would be a fan of a player vs being a fan of a team until now because I have let myself get emotionally invested in our young guys. I’ve been a Lakers fan since I was a kid, and I enjoyed the process of watching the kids grow and develop. It is going to be strange for me to watch for a squad of hired mercenaries on one year contracts. I have a feeling I’ll see just as many Suns and Pelicans games in the near future. |
I can understand how someone would be a Kobe fan more than a Laker fan, or a Lebron fan more than a Cavs fan, or a Jordan fan more than a Bulls fan. The players are the ones playing the game; not the team jerseys.
That said, it would be hard for me to get overly invested in a bunch of young guys who really haven't done much. If Lonzo, Ingram, etc. are traded they will just be other players in the league who I won't give a second thought to. |
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OCWA
Star Player
Joined: 23 Jan 2006
Posts: 3660
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| Posted: Sun Feb 03, 2019 11:34 pm Post subject: |
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| €H£M£$TR¥ wrote: | | I have been a Lakers since birth, and we always go after superstars. We are the originators of the super team concept. |
Wilt, Kareem and Shaq all made it to the finals with their previous teams before signing with the Lakers. AD has been the leader of mediocre teams his entire career. He's an all-star but not a superstar. Also, many of the players on our super teams were drafted/homegrown players. West, Baylor, Magic, Worthy, Cooper, Nixon, Goodrich.
What we are about to do isn't analogous to our previous super teams. We will be building a team the LeBron way, not the Lakers way.
Last edited by OCWA on Sun Feb 03, 2019 11:36 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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Sentient Meat
Franchise Player
Joined: 04 Jul 2014
Posts: 12978
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| Posted: Sun Feb 03, 2019 11:34 pm Post subject: |
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When we traded for Kareem we improved, but nothing really happened until the serendipitous drafting of Magic.
When we signed Shaq we improved, but nothing really happened until Kobe blossomed and Phil became the coach.
When we signed LBJ we improved, but planned to sign our 2nd agent and hope for the evolution of our core. We were well on that path before injuries sidetracked our plan
We are now in the process of destroying the natural space time continuum by trying to force an alternate reality by trading everyone away for AD.
No kismet, or happy accident... but using pure cynical, player management force.
And Kareem and Shaq are way better than AD.
This narrative of you need superstars to win championships never happened the way some of you remember.
We planted two trees... Kareem and Shaq... and nature took care of the rest.
We planted LBJ... but instead of nature... we are using this genetically modified fertilizer called Klutch to speed up the growth of our new tree.
It will kill all our young sprouts... and leave a new frankenstein plant in their place that supposedly will dominate the NBA.
No more natural, organic process like we used the first two times.
Kind of happened the first time with West, Baylor, and Chamberlain too.
Baylor needed to be sacrificed to the anti frankenstein tampering gods before nature would allow our team to start our 33 game winning streak and finally win a title in Los Angeles.
Just kidding... (But there is some truth to what I'm saying...) |
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Sentient Meat
Franchise Player
Joined: 04 Jul 2014
Posts: 12978
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| Posted: Sun Feb 03, 2019 11:35 pm Post subject: |
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| OCWA wrote: | | €H£M£$TR¥ wrote: | | I have been a Lakers since birth, and we always go after superstars. We are the originators of the super team concept. |
Wilt, Kareem and Shaq all made it to the finals with their previous teams before signing with the Lakers. AD has been the leader of mediocre teams his entire career. He's an all-star but not a superstar. Also, many of the players on our super teams were drafted/homegrown players. West, Baylor, Magic, Worthy, Cooper, Nixon, Goodrich.
What we are about to do isn't analogous to are previous super teams. We will be building a team the LeBron way, not the Lakers way. |
Jinx! |
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OCWA
Star Player
Joined: 23 Jan 2006
Posts: 3660
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| Posted: Sun Feb 03, 2019 11:37 pm Post subject: |
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| Sentient Meat wrote: | | OCWA wrote: | | €H£M£$TR¥ wrote: | | I have been a Lakers since birth, and we always go after superstars. We are the originators of the super team concept. |
Wilt, Kareem and Shaq all made it to the finals with their previous teams before signing with the Lakers. AD has been the leader of mediocre teams his entire career. He's an all-star but not a superstar. Also, many of the players on our super teams were drafted/homegrown players. West, Baylor, Magic, Worthy, Cooper, Nixon, Goodrich.
What we are about to do isn't analogous to are previous super teams. We will be building a team the LeBron way, not the Lakers way. |
Jinx! |
Do I get points for being more concise?  |
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drae
Franchise Player
Joined: 13 Nov 2018
Posts: 16144
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| Posted: Sun Feb 03, 2019 11:47 pm Post subject: |
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| OCWA wrote: | | €H£M£$TR¥ wrote: | | I have been a Lakers since birth, and we always go after superstars. We are the originators of the super team concept. |
We will be building a team the LeBron way, not the Lakers way. |
We will be building a team Magic's way. Lebron colluded with 3 superstars then went back to Cleveland in free agency to join Kyrie. His plan for Cleveland revolved around joining Kyrie in FA, and staying with Kyrie for a number of years. A plan that was upended.
Magic, on the other hand, always planned to get multiple superstars anyway possible |
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Sentient Meat
Franchise Player
Joined: 04 Jul 2014
Posts: 12978
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| Posted: Sun Feb 03, 2019 11:50 pm Post subject: |
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| OCWA wrote: | | Sentient Meat wrote: | | OCWA wrote: | | €H£M£$TR¥ wrote: | | I have been a Lakers since birth, and we always go after superstars. We are the originators of the super team concept. |
Wilt, Kareem and Shaq all made it to the finals with their previous teams before signing with the Lakers. AD has been the leader of mediocre teams his entire career. He's an all-star but not a superstar. Also, many of the players on our super teams were drafted/homegrown players. West, Baylor, Magic, Worthy, Cooper, Nixon, Goodrich.
What we are about to do isn't analogous to are previous super teams. We will be building a team the LeBron way, not the Lakers way. |
Jinx! |
Do I get points for being more concise? |
Yep, but I'm just hoping one day it will sink in for some of them.
Malone/Payton superteam = fail
Dwight/Nash superteam = fail
Natural evolution through draft... West, Baylor, Goodrich, Jim McMillian all our draft picks.
Magic, Worthy, Cooper... our picks
Kobe and Fisher... our picks
Kobe and Bynum... our picks
Every time we won a championship, we had key players who were homegrown.
If we execute this trade the way some want... we may have a team with no important players that were Laker picks. |
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drae
Franchise Player
Joined: 13 Nov 2018
Posts: 16144
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| Posted: Sun Feb 03, 2019 11:50 pm Post subject: |
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| Anyway, I will be following Ingram for the rest of his career no matter where he goes. I'll always be Lakers first and foremost though |
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activeverb
Retired Number
Joined: 17 Jun 2006
Posts: 37470
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| Posted: Sun Feb 03, 2019 11:54 pm Post subject: |
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| Sentient Meat wrote: | When we traded for Kareem we improved, but nothing really happened until the serendipitous drafting of Magic.
When we signed Shaq we improved, but nothing really happened until Kobe blossomed and Phil became the coach.
When we signed LBJ we improved, but planned to sign our 2nd agent and hope for the evolution of our core. We were well on that path before injuries sidetracked our plan
We are now in the process of destroying the natural space time continuum by trying to force an alternate reality by trading everyone away for AD.
No kismet, or happy accident... but using pure cynical, player management force.
And Kareem and Shaq are way better than AD.
This narrative of you need superstars to win championships never happened the way some of you remember.
We planted two trees... Kareem and Shaq... and nature took care of the rest.
We planted LBJ... but instead of nature... we are using this genetically modified fertilizer called Klutch to speed up the growth of our new tree.
It will kill all our young sprouts... and leave a new frankenstein plant in their place that supposedly will dominate the NBA.
No more natural, organic process like we used the first two times.
Kind of happened the first time with West, Baylor, and Chamberlain too.
Baylor needed to be sacrificed to the anti frankenstein tampering gods before nature would allow our team to start our 33 game winning streak and finally win a title in Los Angeles.
Just kidding... (But there is some truth to what I'm saying...) |
There are three ways to acquire players -- draft them, trade for them, sign them as free agents.
Championship teams have used every possible permutation of those three ways.
There isn't a right or wrong way to build a team. There isn't a Lakers way to build a team.
You just make a decision, roll the dice, and see what happens. |
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Sentient Meat
Franchise Player
Joined: 04 Jul 2014
Posts: 12978
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| Posted: Sun Feb 03, 2019 11:59 pm Post subject: |
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| activeverb wrote: | | Sentient Meat wrote: | When we traded for Kareem we improved, but nothing really happened until the serendipitous drafting of Magic.
When we signed Shaq we improved, but nothing really happened until Kobe blossomed and Phil became the coach.
When we signed LBJ we improved, but planned to sign our 2nd agent and hope for the evolution of our core. We were well on that path before injuries sidetracked our plan
We are now in the process of destroying the natural space time continuum by trying to force an alternate reality by trading everyone away for AD.
No kismet, or happy accident... but using pure cynical, player management force.
And Kareem and Shaq are way better than AD.
This narrative of you need superstars to win championships never happened the way some of you remember.
We planted two trees... Kareem and Shaq... and nature took care of the rest.
We planted LBJ... but instead of nature... we are using this genetically modified fertilizer called Klutch to speed up the growth of our new tree.
It will kill all our young sprouts... and leave a new frankenstein plant in their place that supposedly will dominate the NBA.
No more natural, organic process like we used the first two times.
Kind of happened the first time with West, Baylor, and Chamberlain too.
Baylor needed to be sacrificed to the anti frankenstein tampering gods before nature would allow our team to start our 33 game winning streak and finally win a title in Los Angeles.
Just kidding... (But there is some truth to what I'm saying...) |
There are three ways to acquire players -- draft them, trade for them, sign them as free agents.
Championship teams have used every possible permutation of those three ways.
There isn't a right or wrong way to build a team. There isn't a Lakers way to build a team.
You just make a decision, roll the dice, and see what happens. |
I'm only refuting those who are saying that you only win titles by acquiring superstars.
I get that it's a new NBA... so we do need to find one more... but it's simply not true that we got all of our titles this way.
Boston, Lakers, Spurs... all used homegrown talent to win titles.
At least Boston's big three had Pierce... and Miami's had Wade.
The Warriors did for the most part, but you can't blame them for not turning down KD and Boogie. Still mostly homegrown.
This team if it comes into existence... will be the only one I can think of that is pure Frankenstein in nature. |
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AirKobe8
Star Player
Joined: 30 Jan 2005
Posts: 8586
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| Posted: Mon Feb 04, 2019 1:12 am Post subject: |
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| Sentient Meat wrote: | When we traded for Kareem we improved, but nothing really happened until the serendipitous drafting of Magic.
When we signed Shaq we improved, but nothing really happened until Kobe blossomed and Phil became the coach.
When we signed LBJ we improved, but planned to sign our 2nd agent and hope for the evolution of our core. We were well on that path before injuries sidetracked our plan
We are now in the process of destroying the natural space time continuum by trying to force an alternate reality by trading everyone away for AD.
No kismet, or happy accident... but using pure cynical, player management force.
And Kareem and Shaq are way better than AD.
This narrative of you need superstars to win championships never happened the way some of you remember.
We planted two trees... Kareem and Shaq... and nature took care of the rest.
We planted LBJ... but instead of nature... we are using this genetically modified fertilizer called Klutch to speed up the growth of our new tree.
It will kill all our young sprouts... and leave a new frankenstein plant in their place that supposedly will dominate the NBA.
No more natural, organic process like we used the first two times.
Kind of happened the first time with West, Baylor, and Chamberlain too.
Baylor needed to be sacrificed to the anti frankenstein tampering gods before nature would allow our team to start our 33 game winning streak and finally win a title in Los Angeles.
Just kidding... (But there is some truth to what I'm saying...) |
Kareem was 32 when we got Magic and Magic was an instant contributor. If we waited 3-4 years for him to blossom, we wouldn't have won 1980 and 1982 for sure.
Shaq was 24 when he signed with us and we got Kobe, so there was time to wait.
LeBron is 34, so the situation is more similar to Kareem. Guys can have a good future ahead of them, I don't argue that. But the fact is the Lakers just can't wait for that right now.
I'm not saying I think this is right or wrong, it's just the reality of facts when you sign a 34 year old LeBron.
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www.lakersbrasil.com
Fan site made by me and others, dedicated to posting Laker news and articles in portuguese. |
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scooterp10
Starting Rotation
Joined: 04 Oct 2016
Posts: 961
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| Posted: Mon Feb 04, 2019 1:19 am Post subject: Re: Team fans vs player fans |
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| activeverb wrote: | | scooterp10 wrote: | | I never understood why anybody would be a fan of a player vs being a fan of a team until now because I have let myself get emotionally invested in our young guys. I’ve been a Lakers fan since I was a kid, and I enjoyed the process of watching the kids grow and develop. It is going to be strange for me to watch for a squad of hired mercenaries on one year contracts. I have a feeling I’ll see just as many Suns and Pelicans games in the near future. |
I can understand how someone would be a Kobe fan more than a Laker fan, or a Lebron fan more than a Cavs fan, or a Jordan fan more than a Bulls fan. The players are the ones playing the game; not the team jerseys.
That said, it would be hard for me to get overly invested in a bunch of young guys who really haven't done much. If Lonzo, Ingram, etc. are traded they will just be other players in the league who I won't give a second thought to. |
I followed Lonzo in high school and college before he became a Laker so it has been a build up of more then just his season and a half in P&G. From the beginning I thoroughly enjoyed the way he plays the game on both ends and I have no doubt that he’ll be given the reigns run the team in Phoenix and take that team to another level. I imagine they will be on TV a lot too. |
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