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adkindo
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 Posted: Wed Mar 27, 2019 11:15 am Post subject: |
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| DaMuleRules wrote: | | adkindo wrote: | | DaMuleRules wrote: | | adkindo wrote: | | DaMuleRules wrote: | | I think was less about class or race and much more of a case where the CPD and the city gained themselves so really horrible publicity based on the way they proceeded with the investigation. It was more about making that go away than Smollet's "connections". Had the CPD not made themselves look so bad, I don't believe you'd see this result. |
I truly find it fascinating that you could take the information as it was presented today, and formulate that opinion. Actually, I find it a little scary. |
Why? It's pretty clear. The moment the CPD went on their public campaign to try their case in the media they opened themselves up to a ton of criticism and controversy. It put the prosecutor in a tough spot. Sure, there were some other factors and pressures. But I don't think you see this resolution without the PD and the mayors office stepping in it the way they did. |
I try really hard to not bring partisan politics into these threads, but I have to this time to avoid talking around the issue. |
The issue at hand was that the CPD and the Mayor's office severely overplayed their hand. They went on the offensive before they had a true sense of the evidence they had. As a result, they crucified Smollet and then had nothing to back it up with.
Was there some politicking going on as well? Sure, but in circumstances such as those it was just back chatter. There was no reason for "partisan politics"
If the CPD and Chicago city officials hadn't gone off the rails, and had there been more solid evidence of the alleged scam, there might have been enough to pursue a trial, but ultimately, even if guilty, given all the circumstances it was unlikely to amount to any jail time. So there was no reason for partisanship to play a role. That's the point.
I think it is very telling to note that you were one of the people saying Smollet shouldn't go to jail even if he faked the attack. But now suddenly you bring politics into because it conveniences you. |
the only thing telling is your tired habit of attacking those who do not share you opinion, instead of the opinion itself. I still do not think he should serve jail time....that has never changed....but the bs of Chicago power players working behind the scenes to dismiss charges....expunge his record completely, and seal the case before the defense even makes the request to assure nobody can look into it.....not this illogical narrative you are trying to spin.
you keep bringing up how the CPD "went off the rails", and trust me, I get you are simply repeating talking points.....but it is total bs. Police departments do this all of the time whether you feel it is right is irrelevant, but it is not the least bit unusual for police departments to be aggressive in their statements about an investigation before a trial.
| Quote: | | more solid evidence of the alleged scam, there might have been enough to pursue a trial, but ultimately, even if guilty, given all the circumstances it was unlikely to amount to any jail time. |
how many fabrications can you repeat in one statement? You have zero idea how much evidence the police had, but they claim they had 100% open and shut case. Even he prosecutor's statement did not question the evidence. You find me a single case where someone was convicted of 16 felonies, and did not serve time. Where do you come up with this stuff? Who is telling you that 16 felony convictions often does not serve jail time?
You have David Axelrod speaking out about how this does not pass the smell test. Harvey Levin who has literally covered celebrity judicial proceedings his entire adult life has point out the same, even claiming he has never witnessed a prosecutor acting in the manner Foxx did in this case.
This is not about Smollett to me at this point.....I want Foxx and Watkins investigated. I am not going to blame Smollett for jumping at this opportunity, and he simply does not have the power to corrupt the system....but Foxx and Watkins do. |
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ringfinger
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| Posted: Wed Mar 27, 2019 12:01 pm Post subject: |
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Yeah, there is something amiss with this whole thing. And you can't really have a discussion about this with the tribal type folks because they'll really just issue the party line which is going to either be "nothing to see here" or "see this proves there's no such thing as white privilege".
Casting those aside, does anyone else find the myriad of justifications for the decisions, from people on the same side to be a little ... unusual? If it was say, insufficient evidence, you usually hear that from all parties involved. Why are we hearing widely different reasons for the decision?
His legal team said it was because the CPD tried to prove their case in public so charges had to be dismissed when that happens. OK.
The prosecuting attorney, Magats, said it was because he has effectively been punished for the crime already via community service hours and bond forfeiture.
On ACS today, Mark Geragos (Smollett's attorney) was on and he said it was because of the discovery they had sent over to the prosecutors and they had no case so they had to drop it. He also said he believes the two Nigerian brothers attacked Smollett on their own, because they didn't like him.
Well -- which is it? They're all on the same team yet not at all consistent in the reasoning behind the charges being dropped.
Also, if the prosecution believes Smollett did fabricate this (which Magats said), why did they not just press him to plead guilty and then say, you're free to go as you did your community service and forfeited bond? Why did they expunge it from his record?! |
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jodeke
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| Posted: Wed Mar 27, 2019 12:10 pm Post subject: |
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Prosecution said even if Smollett had been found guilty he would have only done community service.
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ringfinger
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| Posted: Wed Mar 27, 2019 12:31 pm Post subject: |
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| jodeke wrote: | | Prosecution said even if Smollett had been found guilty he would have only done community service. |
Which means he was given, and completed, his punishment so why not allow him to plead guilty and call it time served?
But what I'm pointing out is that folks on the same side (Jussie's side), aren't saying the same thing.
Smollet Legal Team Official Statement: “Jussie and many others were hurt by these unfair and unwarranted actions. This entire situation is a reminder that there should never be an attempt to prove a case in the court of public opinion. That is wrong.”
And then Smollett's attorney was on ACS today, and said he thinks they dropped it because the discovery they handed over to the prosecution was so strong they had to drop it.
So which is it? Charges dropped due to insufficient evidence, bad behavior by CPD, or time served?! |
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DaMuleRules
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| Posted: Wed Mar 27, 2019 12:53 pm Post subject: |
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| adkindo wrote: | | DaMuleRules wrote: |
I think it is very telling to note that you were one of the people saying Smollet shouldn't go to jail even if he faked the attack. But now suddenly you bring politics into because it conveniences you. |
the only thing telling is your tired habit of attacking those who do not share you opinion, instead of the opinion itself. |
I'm not "attacking" you. I am simply pointing out that you said you hesitate to bring politics into it, yet that's what you did, and did so in a way that contradicted your previous stance on the story. Previously youwere fine with treating Smollet with restraint, but once you saw an opportunity to politicize it, you are suddenly indignant about how politics have subverted justice. It's not "attacking" to point that inconsistency out.
And I did address the opinion itself, quite clearly and reasonably. You just don't like that I pointed out that there is a very good, non-political, reason that the case would be dropped under these circumstances. So please, save the self-righteous indignation.
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You thought God was an architect, now you know
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And everything you built that’s all for show
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24Legend007
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| Posted: Wed Mar 27, 2019 9:31 pm Post subject: |
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| LakesGnrLake wrote: | | 24Legend007 wrote: | | He paid someone to fake beat him up, who cares. He has to live with this for the rest of his life, that is punishment enough. |
Yes he a gay black man just hired some people to fake beat him up and then said it was white trump supporters who beat him and wrapped a noose around his neck saying this is trumps america now. Nothing to see here. Move along |
I'm not saying this isn't vile and dangerous. But what can you really do? Nobody was really physically harmed hear.
I think community service is a justifiable punishment according to the law. But yes extremely dangerous and yes I'm sure he is a lefty nut. Even though the lefties on here will attack me for this because he didnt say exactly who he is voting for. |
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numero-ocho
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| Posted: Thu Mar 28, 2019 7:01 am Post subject: |
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| 24Legend007 wrote: | | LakesGnrLake wrote: | | 24Legend007 wrote: | | He paid someone to fake beat him up, who cares. He has to live with this for the rest of his life, that is punishment enough. |
Yes he a gay black man just hired some people to fake beat him up and then said it was white trump supporters who beat him and wrapped a noose around his neck saying this is trumps america now. Nothing to see here. Move along |
I'm not saying this isn't vile and dangerous. But what can you really do? Nobody was really physically harmed hear.
I think community service is a justifiable punishment according to the law. But yes extremely dangerous and yes I'm sure he is a lefty nut. Even though the lefties on here will attack me for this because he didnt say exactly who he is voting for. |
It's the lack of an admission or conviction of guilt where it fell short. Since Smollett gets to walk away from all of this saying he was wrongfully accused the punishment did not fit the crime.
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numero-ocho
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| Posted: Thu Mar 28, 2019 7:07 am Post subject: |
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I guess no one should be surprised if a DOJ review of this case happens.
There's a bunch of articles out today how Foxx and her office are under fire. I watched one interview where she said all of Smollett's records weren't supposed to be sealed but due to a clerical error this occurred. I can't find the full interview any more but it's the same ones making the news cycle.
I'm not familiar with this news site but if they can start digging into Foxx's claims this type of handling of similar cases is not the norm then I'm sure others will.
http://www.cwbchicago.com/2019/03/kim-foxx-says-smolletts-sweetheart-deal.html
This former Cook County Prosecutor also says he's seen this type of case handled this way.
https://www.npr.org/2019/03/27/707358069/former-cook-county-prosecutor-reacts-to-jussie-smolletts-case
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Last edited by numero-ocho on Thu Mar 28, 2019 7:08 am; edited 1 time in total |
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governator
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| Posted: Thu Mar 28, 2019 7:07 am Post subject: |
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| numero-ocho wrote: | | 24Legend007 wrote: | | LakesGnrLake wrote: | | 24Legend007 wrote: | | He paid someone to fake beat him up, who cares. He has to live with this for the rest of his life, that is punishment enough. |
Yes he a gay black man just hired some people to fake beat him up and then said it was white trump supporters who beat him and wrapped a noose around his neck saying this is trumps america now. Nothing to see here. Move along |
I'm not saying this isn't vile and dangerous. But what can you really do? Nobody was really physically harmed hear.
I think community service is a justifiable punishment according to the law. But yes extremely dangerous and yes I'm sure he is a lefty nut. Even though the lefties on here will attack me for this because he didnt say exactly who he is voting for. |
It's the lack of an admission or conviction of guilt where it fell short. Since Smollett gets to walk away from all of this saying he was wrongfully accused the punishment did not fit the crime. |
Trump getting involve (a POTUS shouldn't be involved in this) |
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Aussiesuede
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| Posted: Thu Mar 28, 2019 7:29 am Post subject: |
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Well the aggrieved party can still come forward and file a civil suit. Now just need to find the aggrieved party... 
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numero-ocho
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| Posted: Thu Mar 28, 2019 8:29 am Post subject: |
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| Aussiesuede wrote: | | Well the aggrieved party can still come forward and file a civil suit. Now just need to find the aggrieved party... |
We may have one.
https://chicago.cbslocal.com/video/4054384-chicago-mayor-considering-suing-jussie-smollett-after-charges-dropped/
| Quote: | On Thursday, the mayor told WGN Radio that the city is planning to bill Smollett for what the he calls a "hoax."
"The police are right now finalizing the cost that was used -- police resources -- to come to the understanding that, in fact, this was a hoax," |
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DaMuleRules
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| Posted: Thu Mar 28, 2019 8:44 am Post subject: |
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And this is reason number 4,987 that the Smollet case was not like your typical "high-profile case".
_________________
You thought God was an architect, now you know
He’s something like a pipe bomb ready to blow
And everything you built that’s all for show
goes up in flames
In 24 frames
Jason Isbell
Man, do those lyrics resonate right now |
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Cutheon
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| Posted: Thu Mar 28, 2019 9:04 am Post subject: |
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Corruption in Chicago? Nah, I don't buy it. |
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ContagiousInspiration
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| Posted: Thu Mar 28, 2019 9:28 am Post subject: |
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There is a headline out there saying FBI seeking to investigate the decision to drop charges...
Trump
| Quote: | | FBI & DOJ to review the outrageous Jussie Smollett case in Chicago. It is an embarrassment to our Nation! |
Tried to insult the whole MAGA tribe... hope Bannon doesn't seek to use it for the base? I still think Bannon is in on things |
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DaMuleRules
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| Posted: Thu Mar 28, 2019 9:44 am Post subject: |
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| ContagiousInspiration wrote: | There is a headline out there saying FBI seeking to investigate the decision to drop charges...
Trump
| Quote: | | FBI & DOJ to review the outrageous Jussie Smollett case in Chicago. It is an embarrassment to our Nation! |
Tried to insult the whole MAGA tribe... hope Bannon doesn't seek to use it for the base? I still think Bannon is in on things |
No. The headline is that Trump wants them to. Whether it actually happens remains to be seen.
_________________
You thought God was an architect, now you know
He’s something like a pipe bomb ready to blow
And everything you built that’s all for show
goes up in flames
In 24 frames
Jason Isbell
Man, do those lyrics resonate right now |
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Aussiesuede
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| Posted: Thu Mar 28, 2019 9:50 am Post subject: |
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Brings up an interesting conundrum. Do citizens also get to sue the Police Dept for damages when they do something stupid like raid the wrong house because someone was too lazy to do proper research and surveillance? Or when they rely on simply the words of a confidential informant, is that informant now guilty of a hoax? If the Police kill a baby like they did in that botched Detroit raid, would the confidential informant, and Officers, now be guilty of manslaughter? Wouldn't all involved then be guilty of a misuse of city resources? 
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I'm On point, On task, On message, and Off drugs. A Streetwise Smart Bomb, Out of rehab and In denial. Over the Top, On the edge, Under the Radar, and In Control. Behind the 8 ball, Ahead of the Curve and I've got a Love Child who sends me Hate mail. |
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ContagiousInspiration
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| Posted: Thu Mar 28, 2019 10:04 am Post subject: |
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| DaMuleRules wrote: | | ContagiousInspiration wrote: | There is a headline out there saying FBI seeking to investigate the decision to drop charges...
Trump
| Quote: | | FBI & DOJ to review the outrageous Jussie Smollett case in Chicago. It is an embarrassment to our Nation! |
Tried to insult the whole MAGA tribe... hope Bannon doesn't seek to use it for the base? I still think Bannon is in on things |
No. The headline is that Trump wants them to. Whether it actually happens remains to be seen. |
Thank you. That is true. They were investigating the letter he sent to himself. Not sure if closed files
https://www.goodmorningamerica.com/culture/story/feds-investigating-jussie-smollett-played-role-sending-threatening-61161589 |
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jodeke
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| Posted: Thu Mar 28, 2019 10:23 am Post subject: |
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| 24Legend007 wrote: | | LakesGnrLake wrote: | | 24Legend007 wrote: | | He paid someone to fake beat him up, who cares. He has to live with this for the rest of his life, that is punishment enough. |
Yes he a gay black man just hired some people to fake beat him up and then said it was white trump supporters who beat him and wrapped a noose around his neck saying this is trumps america now. Nothing to see here. Move along |
I'm not saying this isn't vile and dangerous. But what can you really do? Nobody was really physically harmed hear.
I think community service is a justifiable punishment according to the law. But yes extremely dangerous and yes I'm sure he is a lefty nut. Even though the lefties on here will attack me for this because he didnt say exactly who he is voting for. |
There was no physical harm done but the affects on the communities is immeasurable. He gave MAGA another talking point, LBGT a black mark. IMO community service and forfeiture is not harsh enough.
I watched Empire last night, Smollett was in the episode.I thought the ratings would spike for that episode but they continue to decline. If Jussie was trying to bring audience to the show he failed. I think Empire is on it's last leg. 5 seasons is good for any series.
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Be who you are and say what you feel because those who mind don't matter and those who matter don't mind.
America will never be destroyed from the outside. If we falter and lose our freedoms, it will be because we destroyed ourselves.
Last edited by jodeke on Thu Mar 28, 2019 11:25 am; edited 1 time in total |
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ContagiousInspiration
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| Posted: Thu Mar 28, 2019 10:36 am Post subject: |
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One silver lining in this all
He didn't commit suicide to seek attention
He is deeply suffering from something
How else could he be so unkind and careless
HE PLANNED this.. for attention
Did he hope he would get to watch people beat up
MAGA hat wearers on the nightly news
I'm happy he didn't enact something that took longer to investigate
Or caused real terrified fear
Really smug and (bleep) thing to do
He needs psych help. Probational demand with suspended sentence so he follows through |
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ringfinger
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| Posted: Thu Mar 28, 2019 10:43 am Post subject: |
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| DaMuleRules wrote: | | ContagiousInspiration wrote: | There is a headline out there saying FBI seeking to investigate the decision to drop charges...
Trump
| Quote: | | FBI & DOJ to review the outrageous Jussie Smollett case in Chicago. It is an embarrassment to our Nation! |
Tried to insult the whole MAGA tribe... hope Bannon doesn't seek to use it for the base? I still think Bannon is in on things |
No. The headline is that Trump wants them to. Whether it actually happens remains to be seen. |
https://abc7news.com/fbi-reviewing-circumstances-of-jussie-smolletts-charges-being-dropped-sources/5219838/
| Quote: | | The FBI is reviewing the circumstances surrounding the dismissal of criminal charges against "Empire" actor Jussie Smollett, two law enforcement officials confirmed. |
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ringfinger
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| Posted: Thu Mar 28, 2019 11:22 am Post subject: |
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It is so odd, how different people on the same side are saying different things as far as why the charges were dropped.
Tina Glandian, one of Smollett’s lawyers said this:
| Quote: | | ”I think if they [prosecutors] believed the charges, they never would have dismissed the case." |
https://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-news/jussie-smollett-case-empire-actor-s-lawyer-says-brothers-are-n987901
But Kim Foxx, in the link in the previous post, said...
| Quote: | | "Based on the facts and the evidence that was presented in the charging decision that was made by this office, this office believed that they could prove him guilty." |
How can they not be on the same page about this? |
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jodeke
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| Posted: Thu Mar 28, 2019 11:30 am Post subject: |
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| ringfinger wrote: | It is so odd, how different people on the same side are saying different things as far as why the charges were dropped.
Tina Glandian, one of Smollett’s lawyers said this:
| Quote: | | ”I think if they [prosecutors] believed the charges, they never would have dismissed the case." |
https://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-news/jussie-smollett-case-empire-actor-s-lawyer-says-brothers-are-n987901
But Kim Foxx, in the link in the previous post, said...
| Quote: | | "Based on the facts and the evidence that was presented in the charging decision that was made by this office, this office believed that they could prove him guilty." |
How can they not be on the same page about this? |
Doesn't community service and forfeiture of bail say he's guilty and this is his punishment? I thought that was a plea deal.
_________________
Be who you are and say what you feel because those who mind don't matter and those who matter don't mind.
America will never be destroyed from the outside. If we falter and lose our freedoms, it will be because we destroyed ourselves. |
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ringfinger
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| Posted: Thu Mar 28, 2019 11:55 am Post subject: |
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| jodeke wrote: | | ringfinger wrote: | It is so odd, how different people on the same side are saying different things as far as why the charges were dropped.
Tina Glandian, one of Smollett’s lawyers said this:
| Quote: | | ”I think if they [prosecutors] believed the charges, they never would have dismissed the case." |
https://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-news/jussie-smollett-case-empire-actor-s-lawyer-says-brothers-are-n987901
But Kim Foxx, in the link in the previous post, said...
| Quote: | | "Based on the facts and the evidence that was presented in the charging decision that was made by this office, this office believed that they could prove him guilty." |
How can they not be on the same page about this? |
Doesn't community service and forfeiture of bail say he's guilty and this is his punishment? I thought that was a plea deal. |
Wasn’t a plea deal. I’m not an attorney but doesnt a plea deal require an actual plea of guilty? The charges were just dropped, court files sealed, and the community service he did was not ordered, he did it on his own time before the deal was made they just said they would count that. Lol. They essentially made it like nothing happened, effectively, which is why it is so odd. |
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jodeke
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| Posted: Thu Mar 28, 2019 12:23 pm Post subject: |
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| ringfinger wrote: | | jodeke wrote: | | ringfinger wrote: | It is so odd, how different people on the same side are saying different things as far as why the charges were dropped.
Tina Glandian, one of Smollett’s lawyers said this:
| Quote: | | ”I think if they [prosecutors] believed the charges, they never would have dismissed the case." |
https://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-news/jussie-smollett-case-empire-actor-s-lawyer-says-brothers-are-n987901
But Kim Foxx, in the link in the previous post, said...
| Quote: | | "Based on the facts and the evidence that was presented in the charging decision that was made by this office, this office believed that they could prove him guilty." |
How can they not be on the same page about this? |
Doesn't community service and forfeiture of bail say he's guilty and this is his punishment? I thought that was a plea deal. |
Wasn’t a plea deal. I’m not an attorney but doesnt a plea deal require an actual plea of guilty? The charges were just dropped, court files sealed, and the community service he did was not ordered, he did it on his own time before the deal was made they just said they would count that. Lol. They essentially made it like nothing happened, effectively, which is why it is so odd. |
Correctamundo! Lets rephrase, a Backroom plea deal.
_________________
Be who you are and say what you feel because those who mind don't matter and those who matter don't mind.
America will never be destroyed from the outside. If we falter and lose our freedoms, it will be because we destroyed ourselves. |
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ringfinger
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| Posted: Thu Mar 28, 2019 12:35 pm Post subject: |
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| I have a feeling Kim Foxx is in some deep doo doo. |
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