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LongBeachPoly
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 Posted: Thu Jan 17, 2019 1:48 pm Post subject: |
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| ringfinger wrote: | | LongBeachPoly wrote: | | nickuku wrote: | | I'm tapping out. Its (bleep) borderline crazy you're losing your (bleep) over this. |
One last question - would you approve of Lakersground.net sticky-ing a thread on the main page reminding everyone that it's not ok to be a sexual predator? |
I think this is missing the point LBP.
The main issue with the ad, IMO, is that it lumps masculinity in with toxic masculinity.
And so now, you can't separate them from each other. You can't denounce it from doing that, without also denouncing the very toxic stuff that happens. |
That's your issue with it. My issue with it is different.
I don't know why Kevin Spacey did what he did. I don't know why Bill Cosby chose to go assault all those women. Or Harvey Weinstein. Most men don't do that kind of stuff.
They are the few. Go make an ad targeting them, make them watch it so they can fix their behaviors.
If the issue is "boys will be boys" then they should be targeting parents. Single moms, all types of parents.
If the issue is sexual assault, then it should apply to both men AND women.
But to just single out all men as the problem AND the solution, I don't agree with.
You have an issue with the message. I have an issue with the target audience. |
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ringfinger
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| Posted: Thu Jan 17, 2019 2:18 pm Post subject: |
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| LongBeachPoly wrote: | | ringfinger wrote: | | LongBeachPoly wrote: | | nickuku wrote: | | I'm tapping out. Its (bleep) borderline crazy you're losing your (bleep) over this. |
One last question - would you approve of Lakersground.net sticky-ing a thread on the main page reminding everyone that it's not ok to be a sexual predator? |
I think this is missing the point LBP.
The main issue with the ad, IMO, is that it lumps masculinity in with toxic masculinity.
And so now, you can't separate them from each other. You can't denounce it from doing that, without also denouncing the very toxic stuff that happens. |
That's your issue with it. My issue with it is different.
I don't know why Kevin Spacey did what he did. I don't know why Bill Cosby chose to go assault all those women. Or Harvey Weinstein. Most men don't do that kind of stuff.
They are the few. Go make an ad targeting them, make them watch it so they can fix their behaviors.
If the issue is "boys will be boys" then they should be targeting parents. Single moms, all types of parents.
If the issue is sexual assault, then it should apply to both men AND women.
But to just single out all men as the problem AND the solution, I don't agree with.
You have an issue with the message. I have an issue with the target audience. |
Well, I think there are issues with both. Regarding the audience -- the audience on this IMO is not entirely clear but there is a chance it is actually female, not male. Hear me out...
I do know that in recent earnings reports, the business unit in which Gillette resides was the worst performing of the entire Proctor & Gamble portfolio of CPG products. I'm thinking this has a lot to do with the rise of internet/startup brands like DSC and Harrys which cater to men and are selling at a lower price. So it's possible that they are trying to make up for that market share loss by broadening their appeal to women.
Where the execution side comes into play, is they didn't need to alienate their target demographic in order to do that but what's done is done. Now Harry's has started deleting old tweets about masculinity (prior to this ad coming out) in order to appeal to angry Gilletters. |
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LongBeachPoly
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| Posted: Thu Jan 17, 2019 2:28 pm Post subject: |
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| ringfinger wrote: | | LongBeachPoly wrote: | | ringfinger wrote: | | LongBeachPoly wrote: | | nickuku wrote: | | I'm tapping out. Its (bleep) borderline crazy you're losing your (bleep) over this. |
One last question - would you approve of Lakersground.net sticky-ing a thread on the main page reminding everyone that it's not ok to be a sexual predator? |
I think this is missing the point LBP.
The main issue with the ad, IMO, is that it lumps masculinity in with toxic masculinity.
And so now, you can't separate them from each other. You can't denounce it from doing that, without also denouncing the very toxic stuff that happens. |
That's your issue with it. My issue with it is different.
I don't know why Kevin Spacey did what he did. I don't know why Bill Cosby chose to go assault all those women. Or Harvey Weinstein. Most men don't do that kind of stuff.
They are the few. Go make an ad targeting them, make them watch it so they can fix their behaviors.
If the issue is "boys will be boys" then they should be targeting parents. Single moms, all types of parents.
If the issue is sexual assault, then it should apply to both men AND women.
But to just single out all men as the problem AND the solution, I don't agree with.
You have an issue with the message. I have an issue with the target audience. |
Well, I think there are issues with both. Regarding the audience -- the audience on this IMO is not entirely clear but there is a chance it is actually female, not male. Hear me out...
I do know that in recent earnings reports, the business unit in which Gillette resides was the worst performing of the entire Proctor & Gamble portfolio of CPG products. I'm thinking this has a lot to do with the rise of internet/startup brands like DSC and Harrys which cater to men and are selling at a lower price. So it's possible that they are trying to make up for that market share loss by broadening their appeal to women.
Where the execution side comes into play, is they didn't need to alienate their target demographic in order to do that but what's done is done. Now Harry's has started deleting old tweets about masculinity (prior to this ad coming out) in order to appeal to angry Gilletters. |
Yeah, that's not what I mean by target. Of course, they are trying to appeal to women with this ad.
When I say target, I mean, who is it that they are trying to lecture?
If it's a "boys will be boys" message then the target should be geared towards parents.
If they are trying to solve sexual assault/harassment, then the target should be everyone, because sexual harassment/assaults occur in both men and women.
But their slogan is "The Best a Man can Be" - so that's their angle. They're basically lecturing all men for the actions of a few men. And they're not lecturing any women because they want the women to buy their products.
Basically, they're painting a picture that all sexual harassment/assaults are by men. And, the only solution is that all men must stop it. Women play no role in helping to stop this (as parents/friends/family for instance). And women commit no sexual assaults/harassment. |
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ringfinger
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| Posted: Thu Jan 17, 2019 2:30 pm Post subject: |
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UPDATE: The Gillette ad, at just 3 days old, has just slipped into the top 50 most disliked videos ever made in Youtube's history. There is no other video released this year that has accrued enough dislikes to make the top 50 all-time.
Of the 50 most disliked videos, the Gillette ad currently ranks 15th with a dislike ratio of 67%. (Anything over 50% is disliked more than liked) |
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Aussiesuede
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| Posted: Thu Jan 17, 2019 2:52 pm Post subject: |
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Boys will be girls, dammit.
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DaMuleRules
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| Posted: Thu Jan 17, 2019 3:31 pm Post subject: |
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| Aussiesuede wrote: | | Boys will be girls, dammit. |
Yep . . .
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Hector the Pup
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| Posted: Thu Jan 17, 2019 3:51 pm Post subject: |
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| DaMuleRules wrote: | | Aussiesuede wrote: | | Boys will be girls, dammit. |
Yep . . . |
It's a shame, because they're usually so good at destroying things they already paid for in protest. |
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Aeneas Hunter
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| Posted: Thu Jan 17, 2019 4:17 pm Post subject: |
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| It’s a shame that they couldn’t get Colin Kaepernick and Kendall Jenner into that commercial. Jenner could have given him a Pepsi. What’s up with this stuff? |
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ringfinger
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| Posted: Thu Jan 17, 2019 4:23 pm Post subject: |
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| Hector the Pup wrote: | | DaMuleRules wrote: | | Aussiesuede wrote: | | Boys will be girls, dammit. |
Yep . . . |
It's a shame, because they're usually so good at destroying things they already paid for in protest. |
Haha that link is pretty funny actually. Good old social media protestors. They really think someone gives a bleep. |
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non-player zealot
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| Posted: Thu Jan 17, 2019 4:45 pm Post subject: |
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| nickuku wrote: | Maybe men SHOULD stop acting that way?
The ad is neither offensive nor stupid giving the current climate of things. |
But won't, that's why high woke concepts are fluff when the purveyors are people selling sh. Imagine that coming from Ford's line of pickups, a company that also uses steel and one that sells most of its products to men. You'd be asking yourself, wth is Ford talking about toxic masculinity? Do I have even the slightest pause to think that maybe a 100+ million dollar company gives a crap about this? No. They'd let this immediately sink if it drew backlash a la Kendall and Pepsi making light of police brutality marches. There was a comical scene in that ad above where a guy immediately recognizes that he needs to vouch for an attractive, well-chested woman by stopping another guy from ogling her. What world is that? If that even happens, the first guy is gonna run up to her to take the place of the guy he convinced not to do it. And, if he recognizes the same thing as the prior guy (D-sized bra), why is he all that much better? Woke stuff is only meant to tap into younger consumers, which are the holy grail for most companies selling any kind of product outside of catheter supplies and Ensure. If their woke concepts mean nothing underneath, it's even worse when they pretend that they do. No two ways about it. Gillette can't be a man cuz he doesn't use the same razor heads as me.
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nickuku
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| Posted: Thu Jan 17, 2019 4:53 pm Post subject: |
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| non-player zealot wrote: | | nickuku wrote: | Maybe men SHOULD stop acting that way?
The ad is neither offensive nor stupid giving the current climate of things. |
But won't, that's why high woke concepts are fluff when the purveyors are people selling sh. Imagine that coming from Ford's line of pickups, a company that also uses steel and one that sells most of its products to men. You'd be asking yourself, wth is Ford talking about toxic masculinity? Do I have even the slightest pause to think that maybe a 100+ million dollar company gives a crap about this? No. They'd let this immediately sink if it drew backlash a la Kendall and Pepsi making light of police brutality marches. There was a comical scene in that ad above where a guy immediately recognizes that he needs to vouch for an attractive, well-chested woman by stopping another guy from ogling her. What world is that? If that even happens, the first guy is gonna run up to her to take the place of the guy he convinced not to do it. And, if he recognizes the same thing as the prior guy (D-sized bra), why is he all that much better? Woke stuff is only meant to tap into younger consumers, which are the holy grail for most companies selling any kind of product outside of catheter supplies and Ensure. If their woke concepts mean nothing underneath, it's even worse when they pretend that they do. No two ways about it. Gillette can't be a man cuz he doesn't use the same razor heads as me. |
So take the ad at face value. People are literally upset over nothing.
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DaMuleRules
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| Posted: Thu Jan 17, 2019 5:19 pm Post subject: |
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| nickuku wrote: |
So take the ad at face value. People are literally upset over nothing. |
Here's the funny thing. The type of people who throw the "snowflake" stuff around are typically the first to lose their $#!† over the smallest of things that tweak them.
_________________
You thought God was an architect, now you know
He’s something like a pipe bomb ready to blow
And everything you built that’s all for show
goes up in flames
In 24 frames
Jason Isbell
Man, do those lyrics resonate right now |
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Aeneas Hunter
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| Posted: Thu Jan 17, 2019 6:24 pm Post subject: |
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| ringfinger wrote: | UPDATE: The Gillette ad, at just 3 days old, has just slipped into the top 50 most disliked videos ever made in Youtube's history. There is no other video released this year that has accrued enough dislikes to make the top 50 all-time.
Of the 50 most disliked videos, the Gillette ad currently ranks 15th with a dislike ratio of 67%. (Anything over 50% is disliked more than liked) |
I can't say that I dislike it. I do find it annoying, though. When I watch TV, I want to relax in front of the TV with my rump on the sofa. I quit watching political stuff, like Rachel Maddow, because we all get enough of that stuff without trying. I don't want a commercial to preach to me. |
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LongBeachPoly
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| Posted: Thu Jan 17, 2019 6:29 pm Post subject: |
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| Aeneas Hunter wrote: | | I don't want a commercial to preach to me. |
Yup.
Just like if they stickied that message on the front page of Lakersground.net - reminding people that it's not ok to sexually harass/assault. Just some positive reinforcement for all us men before we engage in some Lakers talk. |
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DaMuleRules
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| Posted: Thu Jan 17, 2019 6:37 pm Post subject: |
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| LongBeachPoly wrote: | | Aeneas Hunter wrote: | | I don't want a commercial to preach to me. |
Yup.
Just like if they stickied that message on the front page of Lakersground.net - reminding people that it's not ok to sexually harass/assault. Just some positive reinforcement for all us men before we engage in some Lakers talk. |
I can't see why anyone would have an issue with that.
_________________
You thought God was an architect, now you know
He’s something like a pipe bomb ready to blow
And everything you built that’s all for show
goes up in flames
In 24 frames
Jason Isbell
Man, do those lyrics resonate right now |
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nickuku
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| Posted: Thu Jan 17, 2019 6:44 pm Post subject: |
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| DaMuleRules wrote: | | LongBeachPoly wrote: | | Aeneas Hunter wrote: | | I don't want a commercial to preach to me. |
Yup.
Just like if they stickied that message on the front page of Lakersground.net - reminding people that it's not ok to sexually harass/assault. Just some positive reinforcement for all us men before we engage in some Lakers talk. |
I can't see why anyone would have an issue with that. |
Yup. What LBP said is ludicrous. Sticky 100 behavioral threads. I would not care.
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non-player zealot
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| Posted: Thu Jan 17, 2019 6:46 pm Post subject: |
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| nickuku wrote: |
So take the ad at face value. People are literally upset over nothing. |
I'm not upset. That kind of message is lost imo when in the vain of hocking razorblades. Not my fault.
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Last edited by non-player zealot on Thu Jan 17, 2019 6:50 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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LongBeachPoly
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| Posted: Thu Jan 17, 2019 6:48 pm Post subject: |
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| nickuku wrote: | | DaMuleRules wrote: | | LongBeachPoly wrote: | | Aeneas Hunter wrote: | | I don't want a commercial to preach to me. |
Yup.
Just like if they stickied that message on the front page of Lakersground.net - reminding people that it's not ok to sexually harass/assault. Just some positive reinforcement for all us men before we engage in some Lakers talk. |
I can't see why anyone would have an issue with that. |
Yup. What LBP said is ludicrous. Sticky 100 behavioral threads. I would not care. |
When's the last time either both of you participated in the main discussion board?
The fact that you want 100 behavioral threads on the main page says it all.
That would be like Gillette buying up all the commercial airtime out there and playing these commercials nonstop on a loop, just to get this message across.
Any of you 2 feel enlightened/awakened by this commercial? |
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Aussiesuede
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| Posted: Thu Jan 17, 2019 6:57 pm Post subject: |
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Come on guys. What's good for the goose is good for the gander. If women have to be burdoned with watching those Anti-Hypergamy adverts during an episode of Oprah or The View, then shouldn't men be subject to the same level of nuisance?  Oh Wait...
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I'm On point, On task, On message, and Off drugs. A Streetwise Smart Bomb, Out of rehab and In denial. Over the Top, On the edge, Under the Radar, and In Control. Behind the 8 ball, Ahead of the Curve and I've got a Love Child who sends me Hate mail. |
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DaMuleRules
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| Posted: Thu Jan 17, 2019 7:07 pm Post subject: |
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| LongBeachPoly wrote: | | nickuku wrote: | | DaMuleRules wrote: | | LongBeachPoly wrote: | | Aeneas Hunter wrote: | | I don't want a commercial to preach to me. |
Yup.
Just like if they stickied that message on the front page of Lakersground.net - reminding people that it's not ok to sexually harass/assault. Just some positive reinforcement for all us men before we engage in some Lakers talk. |
I can't see why anyone would have an issue with that. |
Yup. What LBP said is ludicrous. Sticky 100 behavioral threads. I would not care. |
When's the last time either both of you participated in the main discussion board? |
I can't remember the exact date it turned into a untenable (bleep)hole of over-merged "OFFICAL" threads and over the top, juvenile (bleep), moaning and finger pointing.
What does that have to do with anything?
| Quote: | | The fact that you want 100 behavioral threads on the main page says it all. |
There's a vast difference between wanting something and being well adjusted enough to not be put off by something that is nothing. Again, can't see why it would bother anyone.
| Quote: | | That would be like Gillette buying up all the commercial airtime out there and playing these commercials nonstop on a loop, just to get this message across. |
No, it's not like that at all. And the fact that you try to make it analogous to that is what "says it all".
_________________
You thought God was an architect, now you know
He’s something like a pipe bomb ready to blow
And everything you built that’s all for show
goes up in flames
In 24 frames
Jason Isbell
Man, do those lyrics resonate right now |
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LongBeachPoly
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| Posted: Thu Jan 17, 2019 7:10 pm Post subject: |
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| DaMuleRules wrote: |
What does that have to do with anything?
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Yeah, I would imagine someone who doesn't visit the main page to not care |
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LongBeachPoly
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| Posted: Thu Jan 17, 2019 7:14 pm Post subject: |
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| DaMuleRules wrote: |
No, it's not like that at all. And the fact that you try to make it analogous to that is what "says it all". |
That actually makes no sense. It is analogous to wanting 100 threads on the main page.
And the 2 people who are proponents of this are the ones I've never seen participate on the main page.
But here, let me give you another example - let's say you're just eating your dinner out with your family.
Someone comes up to you, pulls up a chair and says to you - oh, I see you there. Just wanted to remind you that it's not ok to sexually assault/harass women. Ok, anyways, enjoy your dinner ok? |
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DaMuleRules
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| Posted: Thu Jan 17, 2019 7:19 pm Post subject: |
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| LongBeachPoly wrote: | | DaMuleRules wrote: |
What does that have to do with anything?
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Yeah, I would imagine someone who doesn't visit the main page to not care |
There's no advertising that could go on in the Lounge that disrupts it more than the content off the last several years.
_________________
You thought God was an architect, now you know
He’s something like a pipe bomb ready to blow
And everything you built that’s all for show
goes up in flames
In 24 frames
Jason Isbell
Man, do those lyrics resonate right now |
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DaMuleRules
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| Posted: Thu Jan 17, 2019 7:32 pm Post subject: |
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| LongBeachPoly wrote: | | DaMuleRules wrote: |
No, it's not like that at all. And the fact that you try to make it analogous to that is what "says it all". |
That actually makes no sense. It is analogous to wanting 100 threads on the main page.
And the 2 people who are proponents of this are the ones I've never seen participate on the main page.
But here, let me give you another example - let's say you're just eating your dinner out with your family.
Someone comes up to you, pulls up a chair and says to you - oh, I see you there. Just wanted to remind you that it's not ok to sexually assault/harass women. Ok, anyways, enjoy your dinner ok? |
What makes no sense is your attempts to paint the Gillette ad as any of those events. The Gillette ad essentially exists as a short film on YouTube that isn't forced on anyone. There may be a shortened version that is actually airing on TV, but I certainly haven't seen that.
So let's get back to the actual issue. Why are you so bothered by something that expresses a positive message and is absolutely easily avoidable?
_________________
You thought God was an architect, now you know
He’s something like a pipe bomb ready to blow
And everything you built that’s all for show
goes up in flames
In 24 frames
Jason Isbell
Man, do those lyrics resonate right now |
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LongBeachPoly
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| Posted: Thu Jan 17, 2019 7:53 pm Post subject: |
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| DaMuleRules wrote: | | LongBeachPoly wrote: | | DaMuleRules wrote: |
No, it's not like that at all. And the fact that you try to make it analogous to that is what "says it all". |
That actually makes no sense. It is analogous to wanting 100 threads on the main page.
And the 2 people who are proponents of this are the ones I've never seen participate on the main page.
But here, let me give you another example - let's say you're just eating your dinner out with your family.
Someone comes up to you, pulls up a chair and says to you - oh, I see you there. Just wanted to remind you that it's not ok to sexually assault/harass women. Ok, anyways, enjoy your dinner ok? |
What makes no sense is your attempts to paint the Gillette ad as any of those events. The Gillette ad essentially exists as a short film on YouTube that isn't forced on anyone. There may be a shortened version that is actually airing on TV, but I certainly haven't seen that.
So let's get back to the actual issue. Why are you so bothered by something that expresses a positive message and is absolutely easily avoidable? |
Yeah, if it's a youtube video only, I have less of a problem with it. All this time I was thinking it was an ad.
You're right, a youtube video is not being forced on anyone.
It doesn't bother me so much as the principal of the entire thing. I don't like preachiness. I don't like segregation. I don't like blanket generalizations and finger pointing.
I'm not debating that it's actually a bad message. I just don't like the principal of it. When you send out a message, you have to be careful how you phrase it/ or target it. Because then, it comes off as blaming.
So, if you're only targeting men, then you're only blaming men. So the principal of that is what I'm against. Like I said earlier, my biggest gripe is not the message, it's the target. Make the target of the message gender neutral. Stop sexual assault/harassment, period. Once you only target men, now you're saying - only men are doing it. We only need to solve the problems that men have with this issue. Women don't have issues relating to sexual assault/harassment. Women don't do these things. Teachers and students? Nah, we're not worried about those kinds of assaults. Just the kinds that men do.
And I'll give you an example. Let's say a teacher gave a speech in class that we need to respect each other and get along. We need to be nice to each other and not call each other names. That's a pretty good message. But, let's say, while giving that speech, that teacher was only staring at one student and no one else. That one student will be like, why are you looking at me?
So the message - stop sexual assaults/harassment --> good message
Only shining the light on men --> I don't like.
And you have people defending that aspect of the ad "well, it's because ONLY men do it." And I'm sure that's not the point the ad was trying to get across. That this is SOLELY a male problem.
If you really think about it - it's pretty much all these powerful men in Hollywood that are doing these acts.
And Gillette's solution to this? Let's send an ad out to the common man. All common men for the acts of these few Hollywood men.
But if it's only a youtube video, then it was my choice to click on it. It wasn't forced upon me like a TV ad.
Last edited by LongBeachPoly on Thu Jan 17, 2019 8:17 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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