paying a gardener
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Omar Little
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PostPosted: Mon Jan 14, 2019 9:04 am    Post subject:

Both guys said that when something extra comes up, most of their clients expect them to just do it for free.
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LarryCoon
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PostPosted: Mon Jan 14, 2019 11:13 am    Post subject:

Omar Little wrote:
Both guys said that when something extra comes up, most of their clients expect them to just do it for free.


Auto mechanics have a shop rate, with charges that are based on industry averages for the service being performed. If a stubborn bolt refuses to come out and it takes then an extra hour, you don't pay any more for it -- only if a new type of service is being performed.

Again, I think it gets back to there being a normal curve describing all of the work given enough visits -- sometimes it's more, sometimes it's less, and most of the time it's around average. If you're going to adopt a pricing model that's based on the service, then you take responsibility for the curve.

Another more direct example, if we're entertaining, then we might order an additional housekeeping service, even though the house had just been cleaned three days ago. They don't charge less when that happens.
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Don Draper
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PostPosted: Tue Jan 15, 2019 12:09 am    Post subject:

LarryCoon wrote:
Same topic in a different context -- we had our house re-piped last year, and re-scheduled our housekeeper visit, because it was on the same day. They wanted to charge us a surcharge for the following visit, for "extra dusting." Note that this is when we told them what we were doing and asked to reschedule, not when they came to do the work and saw the house.

My wife's response was, "On the weeks when there's less dust, do we get to pay you less?"

She told them they were using lots of plastic to prevent dust, and cleaning up carefully afterward, to avoid any issues, so there wouldn't be more dust anyway. But she would have stood firm on principle.


Of course, that's a slippery slope. Eventually you get to the point where you ask yourself, "why aren't I just dusting these things off myself?"
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Huey Lewis & The News
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PostPosted: Tue Jan 15, 2019 12:41 am    Post subject:

splashmtn wrote:
Huey Lewis & The News wrote:
I make a payment once a month but the monthly payment is a just a total of the charges for the weekly visits.

Your gardener wants to do 50% of the work but still take 100% of your money.

Fire his ass.
maybe or maybe not.

if i come cut your grass once per week. the following week will leave me with a lot less grass to cut. now all i need to do really is trim and run the mower over the grass once and quickly, then call it a day.

if i take off a week and do it every other week. I will have a full 2 weeks worth of growth to cut/mow, trim. its much harder and takes longer to cut higher grass and longer bushes/plants,flowers, etc. this is probably why he wants the same pay. in essence if he was charging you by the grass inch cut. he would cut the exact same amt of grass per inch doing it weekly or bi weekly or once per month.

Once per week - I cut 2 inches of grass for 4 weeks = 8 inches
Once every other week - 4 inches for one months time = 8 inches
Once per month - 8 inches


I would fire you twice. Once for simply being you, once more for trying to tell me you are smart enough to use math in a lawn mowing estimate. For god's sake, look at that bollocks you just wrote.
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LarryCoon
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PostPosted: Tue Jan 15, 2019 8:26 am    Post subject:

Don Draper wrote:
Of course, that's a slippery slope. Eventually you get to the point where you ask yourself, "why aren't I just dusting these things off myself?"


That's not a slippery slope -- there's always a cost/benefit to the two alternatives: doing it ourselves or hiring someone else to do it, and it further boils down to the opportunity cost of our time vs. money (there are other factors, of course, but that's the core of it). That doesn't change, i.e., there's no slope to slip on.
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ringfinger
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PostPosted: Tue Jan 15, 2019 9:05 am    Post subject:

I think once you get down to the point where the service is a math equation, it's time to find a new service provider for something like this.

I have a very basic agreement with my provider with some unwritten understandings. I pay $60/month, for a weekly visit to mow the lawn. That's it.

But they do more than that. They trim my shrubs when needed. Prune roses when necessary. If my patio is dirty, I leave out a broom and they sweep it. None of this is in the agreement.

On the flip side, if it is raining, they don't come. On weeks with major holidays, they don't come. In the winter, they don't always come every week which is fine since the grass grows much slower in that time.

Anyway, there's a give/take there that so far, for the last 8 years, has worked for us. It's not about coming here more or less often or cutting X percent inches of grass. I'd try to find someone like that, rather than someone who has 17 pages of contract agreement and rules and while they never break any of them, never exceed them either.
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LarryCoon
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PostPosted: Tue Jan 15, 2019 10:24 am    Post subject:

ringfinger wrote:
I think once you get down to the point where the service is a math equation, it's time to find a new service provider for something like this.

I have a very basic agreement with my provider with some unwritten understandings. I pay $60/month, for a weekly visit to mow the lawn. That's it.

But they do more than that. They trim my shrubs when needed. Prune roses when necessary. If my patio is dirty, I leave out a broom and they sweep it. None of this is in the agreement.

On the flip side, if it is raining, they don't come. On weeks with major holidays, they don't come. In the winter, they don't always come every week which is fine since the grass grows much slower in that time.

Anyway, there's a give/take there that so far, for the last 8 years, has worked for us. It's not about coming here more or less often or cutting X percent inches of grass. I'd try to find someone like that, rather than someone who has 17 pages of contract agreement and rules and while they never break any of them, never exceed them either.


Agreed. I just don't want it to be based on specific service, but on result. This sounds like what you have, in essence if not in specifics. You're paying $60/mo for them to keep your landscaping looking good. Sometimes that's just mowing the lawn; sometimes it's trimming the bushes and sweeping the patio. There's a natural variance of work to achieve the result you're paying for, and they don't charge extra if it's a little more work on a given visit, nor do they charge less if it's a little less work. And if something's needed beyond the standard service (e.g., tree needs to be cut down), then that's outside the scope of the agreement and a separate conversation.
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audioaxes
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PostPosted: Tue Jan 15, 2019 11:08 am    Post subject:

ringfinger wrote:
I think once you get down to the point where the service is a math equation, it's time to find a new service provider for something like this.

I have a very basic agreement with my provider with some unwritten understandings. I pay $60/month, for a weekly visit to mow the lawn. That's it.

But they do more than that. They trim my shrubs when needed. Prune roses when necessary. If my patio is dirty, I leave out a broom and they sweep it. None of this is in the agreement.

On the flip side, if it is raining, they don't come. On weeks with major holidays, they don't come. In the winter, they don't always come every week which is fine since the grass grows much slower in that time.

Anyway, there's a give/take there that so far, for the last 8 years, has worked for us. It's not about coming here more or less often or cutting X percent inches of grass. I'd try to find someone like that, rather than someone who has 17 pages of contract agreement and rules and while they never break any of them, never exceed them either.

I'd be okay with that if i was paying $60/month. But at $120/month Im less tolerant.
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splashmtn
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PostPosted: Tue Jan 15, 2019 11:17 am    Post subject:

ringfinger wrote:
I think once you get down to the point where the service is a math equation, it's time to find a new service provider for something like this.

I have a very basic agreement with my provider with some unwritten understandings. I pay $60/month, for a weekly visit to mow the lawn. That's it.

But they do more than that. They trim my shrubs when needed. Prune roses when necessary. If my patio is dirty, I leave out a broom and they sweep it. None of this is in the agreement.

On the flip side, if it is raining, they don't come. On weeks with major holidays, they don't come. In the winter, they don't always come every week which is fine since the grass grows much slower in that time.

Anyway, there's a give/take there that so far, for the last 8 years, has worked for us. It's not about coming here more or less often or cutting X percent inches of grass. I'd try to find someone like that, rather than someone who has 17 pages of contract agreement and rules and while they never break any of them, never exceed them either.
i pay 30 every 2 weeks. same deal you have going.
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splashmtn
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PostPosted: Tue Jan 15, 2019 11:17 am    Post subject:

ringfinger wrote:
I think once you get down to the point where the service is a math equation, it's time to find a new service provider for something like this.

I have a very basic agreement with my provider with some unwritten understandings. I pay $60/month, for a weekly visit to mow the lawn. That's it.

But they do more than that. They trim my shrubs when needed. Prune roses when necessary. If my patio is dirty, I leave out a broom and they sweep it. None of this is in the agreement.

On the flip side, if it is raining, they don't come. On weeks with major holidays, they don't come. In the winter, they don't always come every week which is fine since the grass grows much slower in that time.

Anyway, there's a give/take there that so far, for the last 8 years, has worked for us. It's not about coming here more or less often or cutting X percent inches of grass. I'd try to find someone like that, rather than someone who has 17 pages of contract agreement and rules and while they never break any of them, never exceed them either.
i pay 30 every 2 weeks. same deal you have going.
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ringfinger
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PostPosted: Tue Jan 15, 2019 11:24 am    Post subject:

LarryCoon wrote:
ringfinger wrote:
I think once you get down to the point where the service is a math equation, it's time to find a new service provider for something like this.

I have a very basic agreement with my provider with some unwritten understandings. I pay $60/month, for a weekly visit to mow the lawn. That's it.

But they do more than that. They trim my shrubs when needed. Prune roses when necessary. If my patio is dirty, I leave out a broom and they sweep it. None of this is in the agreement.

On the flip side, if it is raining, they don't come. On weeks with major holidays, they don't come. In the winter, they don't always come every week which is fine since the grass grows much slower in that time.

Anyway, there's a give/take there that so far, for the last 8 years, has worked for us. It's not about coming here more or less often or cutting X percent inches of grass. I'd try to find someone like that, rather than someone who has 17 pages of contract agreement and rules and while they never break any of them, never exceed them either.


Agreed. I just don't want it to be based on specific service, but on result. This sounds like what you have, in essence if not in specifics. You're paying $60/mo for them to keep your landscaping looking good. Sometimes that's just mowing the lawn; sometimes it's trimming the bushes and sweeping the patio. There's a natural variance of work to achieve the result you're paying for, and they don't charge extra if it's a little more work on a given visit, nor do they charge less if it's a little less work. And if something's needed beyond the standard service (e.g., tree needs to be cut down), then that's outside the scope of the agreement and a separate conversation.


Yeah. There's definitely somewhat of a dance to it, like with any relationship. I'm with you -- the moment you have to detail everything out and you are now going to hold each other accountable to each and every contractual detail, that's just not a good way to maintain a relationship, business or otherwise.
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PostPosted: Tue Jan 15, 2019 11:59 am    Post subject:

ringfinger wrote:
LarryCoon wrote:
ringfinger wrote:
I think once you get down to the point where the service is a math equation, it's time to find a new service provider for something like this.

I have a very basic agreement with my provider with some unwritten understandings. I pay $60/month, for a weekly visit to mow the lawn. That's it.

But they do more than that. They trim my shrubs when needed. Prune roses when necessary. If my patio is dirty, I leave out a broom and they sweep it. None of this is in the agreement.

On the flip side, if it is raining, they don't come. On weeks with major holidays, they don't come. In the winter, they don't always come every week which is fine since the grass grows much slower in that time.

Anyway, there's a give/take there that so far, for the last 8 years, has worked for us. It's not about coming here more or less often or cutting X percent inches of grass. I'd try to find someone like that, rather than someone who has 17 pages of contract agreement and rules and while they never break any of them, never exceed them either.


Agreed. I just don't want it to be based on specific service, but on result. This sounds like what you have, in essence if not in specifics. You're paying $60/mo for them to keep your landscaping looking good. Sometimes that's just mowing the lawn; sometimes it's trimming the bushes and sweeping the patio. There's a natural variance of work to achieve the result you're paying for, and they don't charge extra if it's a little more work on a given visit, nor do they charge less if it's a little less work. And if something's needed beyond the standard service (e.g., tree needs to be cut down), then that's outside the scope of the agreement and a separate conversation.


Yeah. There's definitely somewhat of a dance to it, like with any relationship. I'm with you -- the moment you have to detail everything out and you are now going to hold each other accountable to each and every contractual detail, that's just not a good way to maintain a relationship, business or otherwise.

I feel like if it's a business transaction then every single detail should be ironed out otherwise you end up on Judge Judy with her belittling you
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ringfinger
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PostPosted: Tue Jan 15, 2019 12:27 pm    Post subject:

Raijin wrote:
ringfinger wrote:
LarryCoon wrote:
ringfinger wrote:
I think once you get down to the point where the service is a math equation, it's time to find a new service provider for something like this.

I have a very basic agreement with my provider with some unwritten understandings. I pay $60/month, for a weekly visit to mow the lawn. That's it.

But they do more than that. They trim my shrubs when needed. Prune roses when necessary. If my patio is dirty, I leave out a broom and they sweep it. None of this is in the agreement.

On the flip side, if it is raining, they don't come. On weeks with major holidays, they don't come. In the winter, they don't always come every week which is fine since the grass grows much slower in that time.

Anyway, there's a give/take there that so far, for the last 8 years, has worked for us. It's not about coming here more or less often or cutting X percent inches of grass. I'd try to find someone like that, rather than someone who has 17 pages of contract agreement and rules and while they never break any of them, never exceed them either.


Agreed. I just don't want it to be based on specific service, but on result. This sounds like what you have, in essence if not in specifics. You're paying $60/mo for them to keep your landscaping looking good. Sometimes that's just mowing the lawn; sometimes it's trimming the bushes and sweeping the patio. There's a natural variance of work to achieve the result you're paying for, and they don't charge extra if it's a little more work on a given visit, nor do they charge less if it's a little less work. And if something's needed beyond the standard service (e.g., tree needs to be cut down), then that's outside the scope of the agreement and a separate conversation.


Yeah. There's definitely somewhat of a dance to it, like with any relationship. I'm with you -- the moment you have to detail everything out and you are now going to hold each other accountable to each and every contractual detail, that's just not a good way to maintain a relationship, business or otherwise.

I feel like if it's a business transaction then every single detail should be ironed out otherwise you end up on Judge Judy with her belittling you


Haha. Yes, there is certainly a minimal level of service that needs to be agreed on. But if you have to detail out every single item/interaction, that doesn't make for a better relationship than not having to.

Are these two things the same?

1) A vet that calls to check on the health of your dog after a procedure.

2) A vet that calls to check on the health of your dog after a procedure because they are contractually obligated to do X follow-up calls and say an agreed upon set of words.
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PostPosted: Tue Jan 15, 2019 2:58 pm    Post subject:

LarryCoon wrote:
Don Draper wrote:
Of course, that's a slippery slope. Eventually you get to the point where you ask yourself, "why aren't I just dusting these things off myself?"


That's not a slippery slope -- there's always a cost/benefit to the two alternatives: doing it ourselves or hiring someone else to do it, and it further boils down to the opportunity cost of our time vs. money (there are other factors, of course, but that's the core of it). That doesn't change, i.e., there's no slope to slip on.


Right. It’s only slippery if you’re completely unwilling to perform that labor.

Either way, I’ve never completely trusted house cleaning services. Good ones are rare.
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