The Myth of Kobe never being able to attract free agents
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LongBeachPoly
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PostPosted: Fri Dec 07, 2018 8:44 am    Post subject:

joeblow wrote:
LongBeachPoly wrote:
joeblow wrote:
Isn't Tim Duncan a contemporary of Kobe's? Don't they both have five rings? So how many all star free agents in their prime did Duncan attract? But no one in the media gets on his case.

I mean, even Magic "couldn't attract free agents". He also had five rings, but Worthy was drafted, Byron came in a trade, and Kareem was already there when he arrived. It's a ridiculous argument that they only apply to Kobe.


I think the distinction is - once you have a championship core, you don't need to attract any major free agents.

Tim Duncan never went through a period of needing to build his team into a championship core. He pretty much had a championship core throughout his whole career. Same with Magic.

Kobe and LeBron went through periods of needing to attract more talent to build up a championship core. I think that's where the distinction lies.

Kobe had the period between Shaq and Gasol where the Lakers weren't championship contenders. Then after the Kobe-Gasol Lakers weren't contenders anymore, he needed to attract more free agents.

LeBron had his first 7 years in Cleveland where he couldn't attract any top level free agents. I think the highest profile player they signed was Larry Hughes. (Not saying this is valid criticism of LeBron, just saying that's the narrative).

Magic was always on a contender from his rookie year until his last year. Plus, there wasn't free agency back then. Wasn't Tom Chambers the first NBA unrestricted free agent in 1988? Magic retired after the 1990-91 season.

All three ended their careers with five rings and not one was helped by a significant free agent signing to make it happen. That's the end result that shows it is still a ridiculous argument.


But to dispute the argument, you have to first understand the stem of the criticism.

It’s about attracting free agents when you need to build your team into a contender. If you whole career you never need to attract any major free agents, then the criticism won’t apply to you. It has nothing to do with 5 rings.

And why continually lump Magic into the conversation when unrestricted free agency didn’t start until 1988? Wouldn’t you say this statement is also ridiculous?

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even Magic "couldn't attract free agents”
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PostPosted: Fri Dec 07, 2018 9:17 am    Post subject:

yinoma2001 wrote:
It's funny b/c no one in the national media criticized LBJ about not being able to attract max FAs (let's not forget he never had that cap space with Kyrie/Love already there or the fact 3 FAs teamed up in Miami) UNTIL he became a Laker.

It's more of a Laker hater thing IMO than LBJ hating.


Has anyone in the national media actually criticized Lebron for this, or are we just talking about Durant running his mouth (and some pundits commenting on what Durant said)? I think this is 99% Durant, maybe 1% Lakers.

Anyway, the current scenario is actually fairly analogous to the 2007 plan. We announced to the world that we were going to have lots of cap space available for a free agent to play with Kobe, then we waited for someone to take the bait. I think Amare even talked about it in the media, but I could be confusing him with someone else. It has been a long time. Anyway, no one took the bait, which is what led to the narrative that no one wanted to play with Kobe. We wound up with Kobe and the seven dwarves, which in turn led to Kobe announcing that he would rather play on Pluto.

Magic is essentially doing the same thing right now. All he can do is put the bait out there and hope that someone bites. This is one of the reasons why I don't like the two max FA plan -- I remember the failure of the 2007 plan. Maybe Magic will have better luck than Mitch.
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PostPosted: Fri Dec 07, 2018 10:30 am    Post subject:

Aeneas Hunter wrote:
yinoma2001 wrote:
It's funny b/c no one in the national media criticized LBJ about not being able to attract max FAs (let's not forget he never had that cap space with Kyrie/Love already there or the fact 3 FAs teamed up in Miami) UNTIL he became a Laker.

It's more of a Laker hater thing IMO than LBJ hating.


Has anyone in the national media actually criticized Lebron for this, or are we just talking about Durant running his mouth (and some pundits commenting on what Durant said)? I think this is 99% Durant, maybe 1% Lakers.

Anyway, the current scenario is actually fairly analogous to the 2007 plan. We announced to the world that we were going to have lots of cap space available for a free agent to play with Kobe, then we waited for someone to take the bait. I think Amare even talked about it in the media, but I could be confusing him with someone else. It has been a long time. Anyway, no one took the bait, which is what led to the narrative that no one wanted to play with Kobe. We wound up with Kobe and the seven dwarves, which in turn led to Kobe announcing that he would rather play on Pluto.

Magic is essentially doing the same thing right now. All he can do is put the bait out there and hope that someone bites. This is one of the reasons why I don't like the two max FA plan -- I remember the failure of the 2007 plan. Maybe Magic will have better luck than Mitch.


National media has started doing so off the back of KD's non-contextualized comments. Even Lakers fans here on LG have (but the anti-LBJ bias might have already existed in those instances).

Magic is in a different position. B/c Mitch was part of the team that helped put together the Shaq/Kobe teams (though he was an assistant).

When it broke up it, it wasn't as if Mitch had 5 years of no stars in place. He still had Kobe.

Magic had a perennially lottery bound team that was a longshot, on paper, to get the #1 FA. And we got him. So whether Magic can get the 2nd max is very much up for question but under different circumstances than Mitch. Maybe you're referring to post 2009-10, but he got a then-all star Nash (albeit older) to sign in a S&T. Pau re-upped too.
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PostPosted: Fri Dec 07, 2018 11:10 am    Post subject:

Aeneas Hunter wrote:


Anyway, the current scenario is actually fairly analogous to the 2007 plan. We announced to the world that we were going to have lots of cap space available for a free agent to play with Kobe, then we waited for someone to take the bait. I think Amare even talked about it in the media, but I could be confusing him with someone else. It has been a long time. Anyway, no one took the bait, which is what led to the narrative that no one wanted to play with Kobe. We wound up with Kobe and the seven dwarves, which in turn led to Kobe announcing that he would rather play on Pluto.

Magic is essentially doing the same thing right now. All he can do is put the bait out there and hope that someone bites. This is one of the reasons why I don't like the two max FA plan -- I remember the failure of the 2007 plan. Maybe Magic will have better luck than Mitch.
Mitch took the 'failure' of the 2007 FA plan, rolled the cap room into Kwame's expiring K and traded him and some youth/picks for Pau.
Magic should be so fortunate.
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PostPosted: Fri Dec 07, 2018 11:14 am    Post subject:

JerryMagicKobe wrote:
Aeneas Hunter wrote:


Anyway, the current scenario is actually fairly analogous to the 2007 plan. We announced to the world that we were going to have lots of cap space available for a free agent to play with Kobe, then we waited for someone to take the bait. I think Amare even talked about it in the media, but I could be confusing him with someone else. It has been a long time. Anyway, no one took the bait, which is what led to the narrative that no one wanted to play with Kobe. We wound up with Kobe and the seven dwarves, which in turn led to Kobe announcing that he would rather play on Pluto.

Magic is essentially doing the same thing right now. All he can do is put the bait out there and hope that someone bites. This is one of the reasons why I don't like the two max FA plan -- I remember the failure of the 2007 plan. Maybe Magic will have better luck than Mitch.
Mitch took the 'failure' of the 2007 FA plan, rolled the cap room into Kwame's expiring K and traded him and some youth/picks for Pau.
Magic should be so fortunate.


Right. But I think there are ample plan Bs if we don't get KL/KD. Plus, we will likely be entering the fray as a playoff team showing promise with a young core getting better by the month.
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PostPosted: Fri Dec 07, 2018 11:39 am    Post subject:

yinoma2001 wrote:
JerryMagicKobe wrote:
Aeneas Hunter wrote:


Anyway, the current scenario is actually fairly analogous to the 2007 plan. We announced to the world that we were going to have lots of cap space available for a free agent to play with Kobe, then we waited for someone to take the bait. I think Amare even talked about it in the media, but I could be confusing him with someone else. It has been a long time. Anyway, no one took the bait, which is what led to the narrative that no one wanted to play with Kobe. We wound up with Kobe and the seven dwarves, which in turn led to Kobe announcing that he would rather play on Pluto.

Magic is essentially doing the same thing right now. All he can do is put the bait out there and hope that someone bites. This is one of the reasons why I don't like the two max FA plan -- I remember the failure of the 2007 plan. Maybe Magic will have better luck than Mitch.
Mitch took the 'failure' of the 2007 FA plan, rolled the cap room into Kwame's expiring K and traded him and some youth/picks for Pau.
Magic should be so fortunate.


Right. But I think there are ample plan Bs if we don't get KL/KD. Plus, we will likely be entering the fray as a playoff team showing promise with a young core getting better by the month.
Agree. We are in a much better position now to add that second star through free agency (KD/KL), trade (cough-cough Ingram), or developing the talent already on the roster.
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PostPosted: Fri Dec 07, 2018 12:06 pm    Post subject:

JamaalWilkes wrote:
Are Topics about former Lakers allowed in the Lounge?

Why wouldn't they be if they never played for anther team in their career?
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PostPosted: Fri Dec 07, 2018 12:20 pm    Post subject:

LongBeachPoly wrote:
joeblow wrote:
LongBeachPoly wrote:
joeblow wrote:
Isn't Tim Duncan a contemporary of Kobe's? Don't they both have five rings? So how many all star free agents in their prime did Duncan attract? But no one in the media gets on his case.

I mean, even Magic "couldn't attract free agents". He also had five rings, but Worthy was drafted, Byron came in a trade, and Kareem was already there when he arrived. It's a ridiculous argument that they only apply to Kobe.


I think the distinction is - once you have a championship core, you don't need to attract any major free agents.

Tim Duncan never went through a period of needing to build his team into a championship core. He pretty much had a championship core throughout his whole career. Same with Magic.

Kobe and LeBron went through periods of needing to attract more talent to build up a championship core. I think that's where the distinction lies.

Kobe had the period between Shaq and Gasol where the Lakers weren't championship contenders. Then after the Kobe-Gasol Lakers weren't contenders anymore, he needed to attract more free agents.

LeBron had his first 7 years in Cleveland where he couldn't attract any top level free agents. I think the highest profile player they signed was Larry Hughes. (Not saying this is valid criticism of LeBron, just saying that's the narrative).

Magic was always on a contender from his rookie year until his last year. Plus, there wasn't free agency back then. Wasn't Tom Chambers the first NBA unrestricted free agent in 1988? Magic retired after the 1990-91 season.

All three ended their careers with five rings and not one was helped by a significant free agent signing to make it happen. That's the end result that shows it is still a ridiculous argument.


But to dispute the argument, you have to first understand the stem of the criticism.

It’s about attracting free agents when you need to build your team into a contender. If you whole career you never need to attract any major free agents, then the criticism won’t apply to you. It has nothing to do with 5 rings.

And why continually lump Magic into the conversation when unrestricted free agency didn’t start until 1988? Wouldn’t you say this statement is also ridiculous?

Quote:

even Magic "couldn't attract free agents”

I understand the stem of their criticism all too well, which is precisely what I am calling ridiculous. What I continue to point towards as a way of backing up MY criticism of the critics themselves is this:

When all is said and done, a legendary player convincing free agents to come to his team is not the end-all/be-all solution to the single most important goal in that legendary player's career - winning championship rings. I am not saying getting high level free agents to come is not helpful, but that it is just ONE path towards getting said championships.

There are other paths available! Magic, Timmay, and the Mamba all followed those alternative paths to achieve the end goal in question, five times each to be exact. Lebron followed the free-agent-acquisition path and has only three rings in 15 years to show for it (counting himself as the sole free agent going back to the Cavs). Now that's good, but it isn't five rings good. So that solution isn't necessarily the greatest path out there.

Hopefully he wins more in the purple 'n gold, but one may ask, what path should be used to get there? Honestly, I don't care. But just like I complain that Kobe should not be criticized for the non-free agent path he followed to get five rings (because getting championships is the main goal, not the method to do it), people should not criticize LeBron for getting more if it does come by way of snagging another all-star or two on the free market.

Some in the sports media, by comparison, have come up with the idea that Kobe should be criticized because THEIR chosen path for his success wasn't followed. Who cares what their or my or your narrow path defines success is? As long as he succeeded (like Duncan and Magic) is my point, by whichever path(s) were used to do it.
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PostPosted: Fri Dec 07, 2018 1:48 pm    Post subject:

joeblow wrote:
I understand the stem of their criticism all too well, which is precisely what I am calling ridiculous. What I continue to point towards as a way of backing up MY criticism of the critics themselves is this:

When all is said and done, a legendary player convincing free agents to come to his team is not the end-all/be-all solution to the single most important goal in that legendary player's career - winning championship rings. I am not saying getting high level free agents to come is not helpful, but that it is just ONE path towards getting said championships.

There are other paths available! Magic, Timmay, and the Mamba all followed those alternative paths to achieve the end goal in question, five times each to be exact. Lebron followed the free-agent-acquisition path and has only three rings in 15 years to show for it (counting himself as the sole free agent going back to the Cavs). Now that's good, but it isn't five rings good. So that solution isn't necessarily the greatest path out there.

Hopefully he wins more in the purple 'n gold, but one may ask, what path should be used to get there? Honestly, I don't care. But just like I complain that Kobe should not be criticized for the non-free agent path he followed to get five rings (because getting championships is the main goal, not the method to do it), people should not criticize LeBron for getting more if it does come by way of snagging another all-star or two on the free market.

Some in the sports media, by comparison, have come up with the idea that Kobe should be criticized because THEIR chosen path for his success wasn't followed. Who cares what their or my or your narrow path defines success is? As long as he succeeded (like Duncan and Magic) is my point, by whichever path(s) were used to do it.


Yeah, you're making the argument about things it's not even about. The question is simple - was Kobe able to recruit free agents to come play for him. It's not an indictment on his legacy, or his greatness.

The question isn't - must a great player also be able to recruit free agents to come play with him?

It's none of that. You're the one making it about things it's not about.

The question is simple - was Kobe able to recruit free agents to come play with him? There's only 3 answers - yes, no, or not enough information.

You think the question is a ridiculous one, so be it. But that's still the question. Nothing more, nothing less.

By the way, what's your answer? I don't know if you've given your answer yet? Was Kobe able to recruit free agents to come play with him during his career?
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PostPosted: Fri Dec 07, 2018 2:38 pm    Post subject:

There's plenty of commentary from agents who said players didn't want to play with Kobe:

https://deadspin.com/anonymous-nba-agents-nobody-wants-to-play-with-kobe-br-1648725291

This isn't rocket science guys, he was on the decline but always needed to be the center of the Lakers universe. I remember when Lou Williams was hot and couldn't miss and Kobe was ice cold, Kobe would start jacking up contested shots instead of getting Lou the ball. Kobe ALWAYS and WOULD ALWAYS feel like he had something to prove to everyone. It was not in his genetic makeup to age gracefully like Vince Carter, Nowitzky, Duncan. He would have 100% gone out in a spectacular supernova of destruction like Iverson (same mentality) if he didn't decide to retire when he did.

You can still be a Kobe fan and not deny reality. Does all this mean 100% of the reason we didn't get free agents was because of him? No. But to pretend every superstar FA would love to be on a team with a declining Kobe Bryant is just silly. You live by the Kobe and you die by the Kobe. It was a ride.
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PostPosted: Fri Dec 07, 2018 7:01 pm    Post subject:

Hellspawn wrote:
There's plenty of commentary from agents who said players didn't want to play with Kobe:

https://deadspin.com/anonymous-nba-agents-nobody-wants-to-play-with-kobe-br-1648725291

This isn't rocket science guys, he was on the decline but always needed to be the center of the Lakers universe. I remember when Lou Williams was hot and couldn't miss and Kobe was ice cold, Kobe would start jacking up contested shots instead of getting Lou the ball. Kobe ALWAYS and WOULD ALWAYS feel like he had something to prove to everyone. It was not in his genetic makeup to age gracefully like Vince Carter, Nowitzky, Duncan. He would have 100% gone out in a spectacular supernova of destruction like Iverson (same mentality) if he didn't decide to retire when he did.

You can still be a Kobe fan and not deny reality. Does all this mean 100% of the reason we didn't get free agents was because of him? No. But to pretend every superstar FA would love to be on a team with a declining Kobe Bryant is just silly. You live by the Kobe and you die by the Kobe. It was a ride.

this article was and has been a ridiculous smear piece. first its not even clear if the guy is insinuating that players dont want to play with him POST or PRE injury. Probably post. and why they dont want to play? if its personal, who cares? Some players are not about winning and are fine losing on another team. If thats the reason, no big deal. But someone who is trying to win a ring doesn't want to play with kobe? i don't think so.

WIth Lebron its different. Because he is not like kobe where you know youre going to win. he just robs you of all your stats and good rep, and you become 2nd fiddle without rings. People dont want to play with lebron because they will look bad AND lose. People dont' want to play with kobe because hes too crazy about trying to win. big difference.
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PostPosted: Fri Dec 07, 2018 7:29 pm    Post subject:

One of the most ridiculous hit jobs by the media committed against a future 1st ballot Hall of Famer was done to Kobe Bryant. What Kobe was able to accomplish with a lack of surrounding All Star talent in the post Shaq years was simply amazing. Gasol is the ONLY player playing at an All Star level that Kobe ever had to play with during the last dozen years of his career.

Duncan had Parker, Bowen, Ginobli, & Kawaii.

Lebron had Bosh, Wade, Kyrie, & Love

Garnett had Pierce & Ray Allen & Rondo

Durant had Westbrook, Steph, Draymond, & Klay

Kobes only All Star teammate post Shaq was Pau Gasol, and the media tried to sell it that Kobe had a lot of help to get his rings when he didn't have near the help the other Superstars have had over the past dozen years.
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PostPosted: Fri Dec 07, 2018 7:39 pm    Post subject:

SuperboyReformed wrote:
he just robs you of all your stats and good rep, and you become 2nd fiddle without rings. People dont want to play with lebron because they will look bad AND lose. People dont' want to play with kobe because hes too crazy about trying to win. big difference.



That's interesting, I didn't know Wade, Bosh and Ray Allen were ringless playing with Lebron. Oh wait they're not. BTW Bosh and Allen were free agents when they signed up to play with Lebron.

And BTW this upcoming off-season, assuming the Lakers don't jeopardize they're cap space by making a trade mid-season, the Lakers WILL land another all-star to play alongside Lebron.

And the one thing you won't see is a player leaving $30 million on the table just to get away from LeBron like Dwight did with Kobe.


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PostPosted: Fri Dec 07, 2018 7:39 pm    Post subject:

KOBE
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PostPosted: Fri Dec 07, 2018 9:29 pm    Post subject:

The Laker club essentially paralyzed itself in the FA market IMO after the last championship run. The nutsy-cuckoo signing of Dwight, the painful Steve Nash deal gutting the club of draft picks, letting Pau walk for nothing, and the circus merry-go-round of coaching ineptness combined to make a picture of a franchise tumbling hard. No one of great merit would consider coming here first to begin a rebuild with a hobbled, old Kobe. It would have to be a rebuild initially from the draft, and not only does that take time, it's no straight line to success, is it?

I don't think that it was Kobe keeping FAs from coming here, except perhaps for that final campaign.
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PostPosted: Fri Dec 07, 2018 9:36 pm    Post subject:

george w kush wrote:
SuperboyReformed wrote:
he just robs you of all your stats and good rep, and you become 2nd fiddle without rings. People dont want to play with lebron because they will look bad AND lose. People dont' want to play with kobe because hes too crazy about trying to win. big difference.



That's interesting, I didn't know Wade, Bosh and Ray Allen were ringless playing with Lebron. Oh wait they're not. BTW Bosh and Allen were free agents when they signed up to play with Lebron.

And BTW this upcoming off-season, assuming the Lakers don't jeopardize they're cap space by making a trade mid-season, the Lakers WILL land another all-star to play alongside Lebron.

And the one thing you won't see is a player leaving $30 million on the table just to get away from LeBron like Dwight did with Kobe.


Bosh signed with Miami before it was even known if LeBron was going to join them or not.
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PostPosted: Sat Dec 08, 2018 12:51 am    Post subject:

Aussiesuede wrote:
One of the most ridiculous hit jobs by the media committed against a future 1st ballot Hall of Famer was done to Kobe Bryant. What Kobe was able to accomplish with a lack of surrounding All Star talent in the post Shaq years was simply amazing. Gasol is the ONLY player playing at an All Star level that Kobe ever had to play with during the last dozen years of his career.

Duncan had Parker, Bowen, Ginobli, & Kawaii.

Lebron had Bosh, Wade, Kyrie, & Love

Garnett had Pierce & Ray Allen & Rondo

Durant had Westbrook, Steph, Draymond, & Klay

Kobes only All Star teammate post Shaq was Pau Gasol, and the media tried to sell it that Kobe had a lot of help to get his rings when he didn't have near the help the other Superstars have had over the past dozen years.


Andrew Bynum was an All Star in 2012.
Bruce Bowen never made an All Star team.
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PostPosted: Sat Dec 08, 2018 9:44 am    Post subject:

Batguano wrote:
george w kush wrote:
SuperboyReformed wrote:
he just robs you of all your stats and good rep, and you become 2nd fiddle without rings. People dont want to play with lebron because they will look bad AND lose. People dont' want to play with kobe because hes too crazy about trying to win. big difference.



That's interesting, I didn't know Wade, Bosh and Ray Allen were ringless playing with Lebron. Oh wait they're not. BTW Bosh and Allen were free agents when they signed up to play with Lebron.

And BTW this upcoming off-season, assuming the Lakers don't jeopardize they're cap space by making a trade mid-season, the Lakers WILL land another all-star to play alongside Lebron.

And the one thing you won't see is a player leaving $30 million on the table just to get away from LeBron like Dwight did with Kobe.


Bosh signed with Miami before it was even known if LeBron was going to join them or not.


Is this true? Bc the three of them conspired in the 2008 olympics apparently.
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PostPosted: Sat Dec 08, 2018 10:00 am    Post subject:

yinoma2001 wrote:
Batguano wrote:
george w kush wrote:
SuperboyReformed wrote:
he just robs you of all your stats and good rep, and you become 2nd fiddle without rings. People dont want to play with lebron because they will look bad AND lose. People dont' want to play with kobe because hes too crazy about trying to win. big difference.



That's interesting, I didn't know Wade, Bosh and Ray Allen were ringless playing with Lebron. Oh wait they're not. BTW Bosh and Allen were free agents when they signed up to play with Lebron.

And BTW this upcoming off-season, assuming the Lakers don't jeopardize they're cap space by making a trade mid-season, the Lakers WILL land another all-star to play alongside Lebron.

And the one thing you won't see is a player leaving $30 million on the table just to get away from LeBron like Dwight did with Kobe.


Bosh signed with Miami before it was even known if LeBron was going to join them or not.


Is this true? Bc the three of them conspired in the 2008 olympics apparently.


I remember Bosh and Wade posted a pic of the two of them at a table with the seat in the middle empty, and they were clearly inviting Lebron to join them. At that time, Lebron was trying to recruit Bosh to join him in Cleveland. I don't think he was 100% decided on joining them in Miami.
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PostPosted: Sat Dec 08, 2018 11:41 am    Post subject:

70sdude wrote:
The Laker club essentially paralyzed itself in the FA market IMO after the last championship run. The nutsy-cuckoo signing of Dwight, the painful Steve Nash deal gutting the club of draft picks, letting Pau walk for nothing, and the circus merry-go-round of coaching ineptness combined to make a picture of a franchise tumbling hard. No one of great merit would consider coming here first to begin a rebuild with a hobbled, old Kobe. It would have to be a rebuild initially from the draft, and not only does that take time, it's no straight line to success, is it?

I don't think that it was Kobe keeping FAs from coming here, except perhaps for that final campaign.

1. The CP3 move was fantastic but it screwed us up for at least the next 5 years.

2. Trading Bynum for Dwight was 100% the right move to make.

Other than that your post is correct.
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ringfinger
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PostPosted: Sat Dec 08, 2018 11:53 am    Post subject:

That players didn't come to play with Kobe has nothing to do with Kobe and everything to do with:

Circumstances not lining up (i.e. availability of the right player, cap space, etc)

Most stars have egos and don't want to become a Robin when they can be a Batman. They'd also be concerned about getting labeled with the "can't beat em, join em" card.

A good portion of the players we brought here to play with Kobe liked playing with him. Some didn't. And that's ok. It's not for everybody.
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SuperboyReformed
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PostPosted: Sat Dec 08, 2018 12:21 pm    Post subject:

trablos wrote:
70sdude wrote:
The Laker club essentially paralyzed itself in the FA market IMO after the last championship run. The nutsy-cuckoo signing of Dwight, the painful Steve Nash deal gutting the club of draft picks, letting Pau walk for nothing, and the circus merry-go-round of coaching ineptness combined to make a picture of a franchise tumbling hard. No one of great merit would consider coming here first to begin a rebuild with a hobbled, old Kobe. It would have to be a rebuild initially from the draft, and not only does that take time, it's no straight line to success, is it?

I don't think that it was Kobe keeping FAs from coming here, except perhaps for that final campaign.

1. The CP3 move was fantastic but it screwed us up for at least the next 5 years.

2. Trading Bynum for Dwight was 100% the right move to make.

Other than that your post is correct.

dantoni recently has said the veto set the Lakers back 15-20 years. Very severe, and I agree. THere would be no talk of players not wanting to play with kobe without the veto. What if CP3 and DWight came and they won 2 rings?
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GOODRICH25
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PostPosted: Sat Dec 08, 2018 12:28 pm    Post subject:

yinoma2001 wrote:
Batguano wrote:
george w kush wrote:
SuperboyReformed wrote:
he just robs you of all your stats and good rep, and you become 2nd fiddle without rings. People dont want to play with lebron because they will look bad AND lose. People dont' want to play with kobe because hes too crazy about trying to win. big difference.



That's interesting, I didn't know Wade, Bosh and Ray Allen were ringless playing with Lebron. Oh wait they're not. BTW Bosh and Allen were free agents when they signed up to play with Lebron.

And BTW this upcoming off-season, assuming the Lakers don't jeopardize they're cap space by making a trade mid-season, the Lakers WILL land another all-star to play alongside Lebron.

And the one thing you won't see is a player leaving $30 million on the table just to get away from LeBron like Dwight did with Kobe.


Bosh signed with Miami before it was even known if LeBron was going to join them or not.


Is this true? Bc the three of them conspired in the 2008 olympics apparently.


some say the original plan was Wade and James to team up with Melo, but then Melo signed a longer deal than the other 2 opening up the space for Bosh.
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Ujah's Goat
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PostPosted: Sat Dec 08, 2018 12:31 pm    Post subject:

70sdude wrote:
The Laker club essentially paralyzed itself in the FA market IMO after the last championship run. The nutsy-cuckoo signing of Dwight, the painful Steve Nash deal gutting the club of draft picks, letting Pau walk for nothing, and the circus merry-go-round of coaching ineptness combined to make a picture of a franchise tumbling hard. No one of great merit would consider coming here first to begin a rebuild with a hobbled, old Kobe. It would have to be a rebuild initially from the draft, and not only does that take time, it's no straight line to success, is it?

I don't think that it was Kobe keeping FAs from coming here, except perhaps for that final campaign.


+1

However, this further validates the fact that no star FA chose to play with Kobe. And that’s perfectly fine: Kobe still has his 5.
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SuperboyReformed
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PostPosted: Sat Dec 08, 2018 12:43 pm    Post subject:

Ujah's Goat wrote:
70sdude wrote:
The Laker club essentially paralyzed itself in the FA market IMO after the last championship run. The nutsy-cuckoo signing of Dwight, the painful Steve Nash deal gutting the club of draft picks, letting Pau walk for nothing, and the circus merry-go-round of coaching ineptness combined to make a picture of a franchise tumbling hard. No one of great merit would consider coming here first to begin a rebuild with a hobbled, old Kobe. It would have to be a rebuild initially from the draft, and not only does that take time, it's no straight line to success, is it?

I don't think that it was Kobe keeping FAs from coming here, except perhaps for that final campaign.


+1

However, this further validates the fact that no star FA chose to play with Kobe. And that’s perfectly fine: Kobe still has his 5.

again , this statement makes it sounds like they dont want to play with kobe. its not like that. Lebron wade and bosh planned to do what they did in advance, and it was a new idea, so there was a lot to do. lebron had to want to do something crazy like that. kobe didn't want to do anything like that, so he didn't try. Its not that players didnt want to come play, but how? if kobe is not pushing for it, and its not the norm, what do you do?
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