From game 1 til now. is Lonzo the best Defensive PG in the NBA?
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splashmtn
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PostPosted: Wed Dec 05, 2018 11:50 am    Post subject: From game 1 til now. is Lonzo the best Defensive PG in the NBA?

I'm not talking about his horrible free throws or his air balled 3's or his blown layups.

This is a defensive conversation. I Know we made some statements early on about how good he was on defense. So since the season started til now. with a straight face could someone argue that Lonzo is the best defensive point guard in the nba?
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Aeneas Hunter
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PostPosted: Wed Dec 05, 2018 11:54 am    Post subject:

Sure. There's a good case to be made for it. The point guard position is at a low ebb in terms of defense, and Ball is as good or better than anyone else.
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PostPosted: Wed Dec 05, 2018 12:11 pm    Post subject:

Conley, Westbrook, Lowry, Beverley, CP3 are pretty good defensive PGs.
Is Lonzo really better than those guys?
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epak
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PostPosted: Wed Dec 05, 2018 12:14 pm    Post subject:

kenkoy wrote:
Conley, Westbrook, Lowry, Beverley, CP3 are pretty good defensive PGs.
Is Lonzo really better than those guys?


In 2018, I think Lonzo is better than Conley, Westbrook (effort), CP3 (age). Haven't seen enough of Lowry though.
Beverley might be the one that has Lonzo. But PB is dirty. I hate that guy
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PostPosted: Wed Dec 05, 2018 12:21 pm    Post subject:

epak wrote:
kenkoy wrote:
Conley, Westbrook, Lowry, Beverley, CP3 are pretty good defensive PGs.
Is Lonzo really better than those guys?


In 2018, I think Lonzo is better than Conley, Westbrook (effort), CP3 (age). Haven't seen enough of Lowry though.
Beverley might be the one that has Lonzo. But PB is dirty. I hate that guy


PB is great on ball but doesn't do as well in a switching defense when he has to guard bigger guys like Lonzo can.
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PostPosted: Wed Dec 05, 2018 12:24 pm    Post subject:

Not sure if #1, but promising signs.

Only guy on our current team that I think can make an all-NBA defense team.
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PostPosted: Wed Dec 05, 2018 12:24 pm    Post subject:

If they ever deal this kid, watch the floodgates open. They are going to regret it, and miss his first line of defense.
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epak
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PostPosted: Wed Dec 05, 2018 12:27 pm    Post subject:

socalsp3 wrote:
epak wrote:
kenkoy wrote:
Conley, Westbrook, Lowry, Beverley, CP3 are pretty good defensive PGs.
Is Lonzo really better than those guys?


In 2018, I think Lonzo is better than Conley, Westbrook (effort), CP3 (age). Haven't seen enough of Lowry though.
Beverley might be the one that has Lonzo. But PB is dirty. I hate that guy


PB is great on ball but doesn't do as well in a switching defense when he has to guard bigger guys like Lonzo can.


Good point.
But PB has Lonzo on tearing opponents menisci. So it might be a wash
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PostPosted: Wed Dec 05, 2018 12:32 pm    Post subject:

epak wrote:
socalsp3 wrote:
epak wrote:
kenkoy wrote:
Conley, Westbrook, Lowry, Beverley, CP3 are pretty good defensive PGs.
Is Lonzo really better than those guys?


In 2018, I think Lonzo is better than Conley, Westbrook (effort), CP3 (age). Haven't seen enough of Lowry though.
Beverley might be the one that has Lonzo. But PB is dirty. I hate that guy


PB is great on ball but doesn't do as well in a switching defense when he has to guard bigger guys like Lonzo can.


Good point.
But PB has Lonzo on tearing opponents menisci. So it might be a wash


Lonzo's bigger than all those guys, so that's a plus...
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AY2043
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PostPosted: Wed Dec 05, 2018 12:36 pm    Post subject:

Throw Ben Simmons in there too, if you want to consider him a PG.

Lonzoโ€™s definitely right up there though
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ringfinger
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PostPosted: Wed Dec 05, 2018 12:46 pm    Post subject:

He has to do it for longer, but heโ€™s up there.
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PostPosted: Wed Dec 05, 2018 1:13 pm    Post subject:

Runway8 wrote:
If they ever deal this kid, watch the floodgates open. They are going to regret it, and miss his first line of defense.


Totally agree
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splashmtn
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PostPosted: Wed Dec 05, 2018 1:19 pm    Post subject:

socalsp3 wrote:
epak wrote:
kenkoy wrote:
Conley, Westbrook, Lowry, Beverley, CP3 are pretty good defensive PGs.
Is Lonzo really better than those guys?


In 2018, I think Lonzo is better than Conley, Westbrook (effort), CP3 (age). Haven't seen enough of Lowry though.
Beverley might be the one that has Lonzo. But PB is dirty. I hate that guy


PB is great on ball but doesn't do as well in a switching defense when he has to guard bigger guys like Lonzo can.
you beat me to it.
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CervantesRises
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PostPosted: Wed Dec 05, 2018 1:20 pm    Post subject:

danzag wrote:
Runway8 wrote:
If they ever deal this kid, watch the floodgates open. They are going to regret it, and miss his first line of defense.


Totally agree


+1

Zo plays the best on ball defense I've ever seen, can switch and hold his own 1 to 3, rebounds, starts the break, and I can't think of a guy with faster hands in 40 years of watching the game.

He gets his feet set properly behind the 3 and I think he becomes a consistent threat from behind the line too.
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splashmtn
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PostPosted: Wed Dec 05, 2018 1:22 pm    Post subject:

Runway8 wrote:
If they ever deal this kid, watch the floodgates open. They are going to regret it, and miss his first line of defense.
worse case scenario. he remains horrible in shooting, layups, mid range, and ft's. but he gets better and excels at passing and defense.

What do you call a patrick beverly with dimes?

patrick bev can't run a team if his life depended on it. But zo can.

RUBIO has insanely quick hands and is a steals machine. but overall defense was always just ok.

I mean if i go back maybe nate mcmillian but he could score better. but i can't think of many PG's that play darn near lock down defense, excellent team/help defense, while also having the ability to Run a team without being able to score really.

again this is WORSE case scenario.
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splashmtn
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PostPosted: Wed Dec 05, 2018 1:23 pm    Post subject:

ringfinger wrote:
He has to do it for longer, but heโ€™s up there.
thats not the question ring. the question is RIGHT NOW based one these first 20 something games. is he the best PG in the nba? simple yes or no will suffice lol.
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PostPosted: Wed Dec 05, 2018 1:24 pm    Post subject:

From what I have seen so far this season, Lonzo is one of the top 3 best defenders at the PG position. Marcus Smart and CP3 are the only PGs I'd say are better defenders still
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splashmtn
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PostPosted: Wed Dec 05, 2018 1:24 pm    Post subject:

yinoma2001 wrote:
Not sure if #1, but promising signs.

Only guy on our current team that I think can make an all-NBA defense team.
So who's better at both the combination of on ball defense, off ball team defense, as well as securing the defensive rebound?
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PostPosted: Wed Dec 05, 2018 1:44 pm    Post subject: Re: From game 1 til now. is Lonzo the best Defensive PG in the NBA?

splashmtn wrote:
I'm not talking about his horrible free throws or his air balled 3's or his blown layups.

This is a defensive conversation. I Know we made some statements early on about how good he was on defense. So since the season started til now. with a straight face could someone argue that Lonzo is the best defensive point guard in the nba?



If you go be defensive rating, he is #8 among point guards behind Russell Westbrook, Dennis Schroder, Kyrie Irving, Cory Joseph, Ben Simmons, Darren Collison, and Eric Bledsoe.

He is #12 among all guards.
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PostPosted: Wed Dec 05, 2018 1:56 pm    Post subject:

ratings aside, he is clearly one of the best, if not the best, perimeter defender in the league, his technique is similar to artest, who i believe was the best perimeter defender of the 2000s.

lonzo is very disruptive. other guys may get the steal numbers, and blocks, ratings, etc., but they dont do what lonzo does as far as disruption. if our team can stabilize offensively (big IF) his defensive displays will be much more obvious.
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PostPosted: Wed Dec 05, 2018 1:57 pm    Post subject: Re: From game 1 til now. is Lonzo the best Defensive PG in the NBA?

activeverb wrote:
splashmtn wrote:
I'm not talking about his horrible free throws or his air balled 3's or his blown layups.

This is a defensive conversation. I Know we made some statements early on about how good he was on defense. So since the season started til now. with a straight face could someone argue that Lonzo is the best defensive point guard in the nba?



If you go be defensive rating, he is #8 among point guards behind Russell Westbrook, Dennis Schroder, Kyrie Irving, Cory Joseph, Ben Simmons, Darren Collison, and Eric Bledsoe.

He is #12 among all guards.


Darren Collison and Kyrie are ahead of Zo?

Marcus Smart should be ahead of almost all those guys though but I guess he's more of a combo guard.
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epak
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PostPosted: Wed Dec 05, 2018 2:35 pm    Post subject: Re: From game 1 til now. is Lonzo the best Defensive PG in the NBA?

LakerMania wrote:
activeverb wrote:
splashmtn wrote:
I'm not talking about his horrible free throws or his air balled 3's or his blown layups.

This is a defensive conversation. I Know we made some statements early on about how good he was on defense. So since the season started til now. with a straight face could someone argue that Lonzo is the best defensive point guard in the nba?



If you go be defensive rating, he is #8 among point guards behind Russell Westbrook, Dennis Schroder, Kyrie Irving, Cory Joseph, Ben Simmons, Darren Collison, and Eric Bledsoe.

He is #12 among all guards.


Darren Collison and Kyrie are ahead of Zo?

Marcus Smart should be ahead of almost all those guys though but I guess he's more of a combo guard.


Is DRTG based on team defense?
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PostPosted: Wed Dec 05, 2018 2:50 pm    Post subject:

He is one of the best, if you include defensive rebounding as part of it...it probably between him and Ben Simmons.

Iโ€™ve never seen hands as quick as his.
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splashmtn
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PostPosted: Wed Dec 05, 2018 3:16 pm    Post subject:

SuperboyReformed wrote:
ratings aside, he is clearly one of the best, if not the best, perimeter defender in the league, his technique is similar to artest, who i believe was the best perimeter defender of the 2000s.

lonzo is very disruptive. other guys may get the steal numbers, and blocks, ratings, etc., but they dont do what lonzo does as far as disruption. if our team can stabilize offensively (big IF) his defensive displays will be much more obvious.
i agree. he does both things well. some players only get the steals or the blocks aka the splash plays. but he gets those while also wreaking havoc on a teams offense and can still force a TO where he isnt rewarded with either a steal nor block. Very unique.

This is why they need to start hitting their FT's. When you have a team where you are lucky enough to have a player that can cut the head off the snake on most current nba teams(pg) in spurts. you have gold come playoff time. its hard to stop anyone these days. so all you can hope for is a few KEY stops. if you hit your Ft's, all you will need is a handful of key stops from qtr 1 to qtr 4 and bam you can pretty much beat anyone.
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PostPosted: Wed Dec 05, 2018 3:28 pm    Post subject:

splashmtn wrote:
ringfinger wrote:
He has to do it for longer, but heโ€™s up there.
thats not the question ring. the question is RIGHT NOW based one these first 20 something games. is he the best PG in the nba? simple yes or no will suffice lol.


Alright. Then, no, heโ€™s not the best. Has a long way to go. Too many games where he was simply not engaged by his own admission.

To be the best, you have to be engaged every game.
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