Magic speaking the truth....
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PostPosted: Sat Dec 01, 2018 8:11 am    Post subject:

lakerdynasty5.0 wrote:
24Legend007 wrote:
Popovich speaking the truth though.

https://sports.yahoo.com/spurs-president-coach-gregg-popovich-172143356.html

I could not agree more. The NBA and its analytics has destroyed the game imo. There is no heart and soul anymore, it's all calculations.

It's like music these days. Just because it is more efficient and faster to make music purely digitally does not make it better. The game is probably more efficient these days, but for sure it is more boring to watch then ever imo.


Hey Pops, where dat "Make Hoops Great Again" hat?


Play real music and basketball again

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PostPosted: Sat Dec 01, 2018 8:22 am    Post subject:

Again, when Magic is popping off in the media it's time for people to start worrying. i.e. Luke

Walton slowing things down, if that's really his intent, is the correct move. The defense will be better by default when the offense is not playing hysterical silly ball. Popovich is 100% correct about the league today. Get back to me when a team not named Golden State wins a title by launching deep 3s all game, every game.

There's nothing wrong with LeBron dominating the ball, he's the best player in the league and the defense can't do anything with him. He scores with relative ease and his jumper looks like it gets better all the time. Why did we go out and get the guy? To watch Ingram and Lonzo run the offense? They're not ready for that, IF they ever will be. Who else on this team do we want with the ball in his hands? Rondo returning will help, but he probably can't go big minutes every night anymore.

LeBron will inevitably decline with age, like every player in the history of the sport. If we were using him to grind it out against bigs on the low block, that would be a different story. The guy is a monster. He's doing what the org is paying him to do, make us a good team. That's his job.
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PostPosted: Sat Dec 01, 2018 9:22 am    Post subject:

24Legend007 wrote:
Popovich speaking the truth though.

https://sports.yahoo.com/spurs-president-coach-gregg-popovich-172143356.html

I could not agree more. The NBA and its analytics has destroyed the game imo. There is no heart and soul anymore, it's all calculations.

It's like music these days. Just because it is more efficient and faster to make music purely digitally does not make it better. The game is probably more efficient these days, but for sure it is more boring to watch then ever imo.


I have to throw the BS flag on the notion that analytics is responsible for the rise of three point shooting. As the graph in that article shows, the rate of three point shooting has been rising for years. When became apparent that the rule changes made it hard to defend on the perimeter, the boom in three point shooting became inevitable. Analytics may have fueled the boom, but analytics did not cause it. Three point shooting is winning basketball, and the league was going to head that direction regardless. D’Antoni’s Suns were the pioneers, and eventually the Warriors buried the old schoolers who insisted that it would never work in the playoffs.

The real question — which is rarely asked — is why the league has made only minor changes to counter this trend. The league cracked down on the leg kick, but the league could have made many other changes, such as allowing more physical defense on the perimeter or changing the three point line to eliminate the short corner three. But the league has done nothing. Evidently, the league has concluded that fans like the way that the game is played. This is an entertainment product, not a performing art. The freedom of movement rules tell us that the league wants more run and gun offense, not a shift back to old school offense. This is driven by fan preferences, not by analytics.
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PostPosted: Sat Dec 01, 2018 9:39 am    Post subject:

RI Laker wrote:
The hate towards Magic by some on this board is MIND BOGGLING. The man has put us on the map for the 2nd time in his career (once as a player, and now as an executive).


I don’t think anyone hates Magic, though there may be an outlier on a board this big. We want Magic to succeed in building us into a contender. However, Magic is not immune from criticism just because he was a great player once.

In this particular case, I don’t have a problem with what Magic said. I reacted to the fact that someone was acting like he said something profound. And frankly, some of us are still a little annoyed by the things he used to say when he was a commentator. Don’t mistake the lingering annoyance for hatred of Magic.
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PostPosted: Sat Dec 01, 2018 9:51 am    Post subject:

Having the best coach in the NBA (who’s front office is considered calculated) take a shot at analytics is funny to me. Analytics works, but some people here act like it’s the end all be all. Like some nerd from MIT will know more basketball than Magic (bleep) Johnson. GTFOH. How’s Morey looking these days? His analytics worked well when he got rid of good defenders and went after Melo.

I talked to an old coach who supposedly knew Kawhi as a kid last night. I asked him his thoughts on the current NBA. Of course he hates all these kids trying to be Steph Curry (no surprise there). But then I asked his thoughts on analytics and he basically felt it was a way for “folks” to make money off of the NBA. Since there’s no cap on how much the front office can spend on non-players, he may not be wrong.

Look at the Dodgers. Analytics can only take you so far. Sometimes you need to go with common rather what the numbers say. It cost them at least one World Series.
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PostPosted: Sat Dec 01, 2018 9:54 am    Post subject:

RI Laker wrote:
The hate towards Magic by some on this board is MIND BOGGLING. The man has put us on the map for the 2nd time in his career (once as a player, and now as an executive). He wants to make sure of a few things. Keep LJ's minutes down. He saw what happens (a la KB) when an older player is overused which opens them up to injuries. Magic also does not want LJ to work as hard for scores (we know he doesn't work hard on D). Both the Lakers and LJ said they did not want to run the offense through him as much as teams have in the past. I 100% agree with this. There are a ton of challenges for both the players and Luke as they have to alter their game or coaching because of LJ. The last things we need is a ball dominant LJ who will take the flow out of the game and stifle our kids. We have all played ball with a ball dominant player. It blows and takes everyone out of the game.



yup.

the man deserves all the credit in the world.... while there have been some better moves he could and should have made in filling out the roster, he got us the best player in the world and looks to have set the path to get another.

again, some of the smaller moves were a little but troubling, but he and rob have changed the entire course of this franchise and I will continue to give him the credit he deserves and trust he'll keep it going.
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PostPosted: Sat Dec 01, 2018 11:00 am    Post subject:

RI Laker wrote:
The hate towards Magic by some on this board is MIND BOGGLING. The man has put us on the map for the 2nd time in his career (once as a player, and now as an executive). He wants to make sure of a few things. Keep LJ's minutes down. He saw what happens (a la KB) when an older player is overused which opens them up to injuries. Magic also does not want LJ to work as hard for scores (we know he doesn't work hard on D). Both the Lakers and LJ said they did not want to run the offense through him as much as teams have in the past. I 100% agree with this. There are a ton of challenges for both the players and Luke as they have to alter their game or coaching because of LJ. The last things we need is a ball dominant LJ who will take the flow out of the game and stifle our kids. We have all played ball with a ball dominant player. It blows and takes everyone out of the game.


The hate toward Magic on this board is a figment of your imagination
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PostPosted: Sat Dec 01, 2018 11:05 am    Post subject:

venturalakersfan wrote:
RI Laker wrote:
The hate towards Magic by some on this board is MIND BOGGLING. The man has put us on the map for the 2nd time in his career (once as a player, and now as an executive). He wants to make sure of a few things. Keep LJ's minutes down. He saw what happens (a la KB) when an older player is overused which opens them up to injuries. Magic also does not want LJ to work as hard for scores (we know he doesn't work hard on D). Both the Lakers and LJ said they did not want to run the offense through him as much as teams have in the past. I 100% agree with this. There are a ton of challenges for both the players and Luke as they have to alter their game or coaching because of LJ. The last things we need is a ball dominant LJ who will take the flow out of the game and stifle our kids. We have all played ball with a ball dominant player. It blows and takes everyone out of the game.


The hate toward Magic on this board is a figment of your imagination

Naw, he’s telling the truth. He may be painting with a broad bruh, but there were posters after the Denver game calling for his resignation. It’s nit imaginary.
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PostPosted: Sat Dec 01, 2018 1:43 pm    Post subject:

Aeneas Hunter wrote:
24Legend007 wrote:
Popovich speaking the truth though.

https://sports.yahoo.com/spurs-president-coach-gregg-popovich-172143356.html

I could not agree more. The NBA and its analytics has destroyed the game imo. There is no heart and soul anymore, it's all calculations.

It's like music these days. Just because it is more efficient and faster to make music purely digitally does not make it better. The game is probably more efficient these days, but for sure it is more boring to watch then ever imo.


I have to throw the BS flag on the notion that analytics is responsible for the rise of three point shooting. As the graph in that article shows, the rate of three point shooting has been rising for years. When became apparent that the rule changes made it hard to defend on the perimeter, the boom in three point shooting became inevitable. Analytics may have fueled the boom, but analytics did not cause it. Three point shooting is winning basketball, and the league was going to head that direction regardless. D’Antoni’s Suns were the pioneers, and eventually the Warriors buried the old schoolers who insisted that it would never work in the playoffs.

The real question — which is rarely asked — is why the league has made only minor changes to counter this trend. The league cracked down on the leg kick, but the league could have made many other changes, such as allowing more physical defense on the perimeter or changing the three point line to eliminate the short corner three. But the league has done nothing. Evidently, the league has concluded that fans like the way that the game is played. This is an entertainment product, not a performing art. The freedom of movement rules tell us that the league wants more run and gun offense, not a shift back to old school offense. This is driven by fan preferences, not by analytics.

I wonder if the people who are complaining about three point shooting and the fact that no contact is allowed on the perimeter want to go back to the way the game was in the 90s or early 2000s when most teams walked the ball upcourt all game and scored less than 100 points a game. Back then just as many people, if not more, were complaining about that.
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PostPosted: Sat Dec 01, 2018 1:43 pm    Post subject:

AFireInside619 wrote:
Having the best coach in the NBA (who’s front office is considered calculated) take a shot at analytics is funny to me. Analytics works, but some people here act like it’s the end all be all. Like some nerd from MIT will know more basketball than Magic (bleep) Johnson. GTFOH. How’s Morey looking these days? His analytics worked well when he got rid of good defenders and went after Melo.

I talked to an old coach who supposedly knew Kawhi as a kid last night. I asked him his thoughts on the current NBA. Of course he hates all these kids trying to be Steph Curry (no surprise there). But then I asked his thoughts on analytics and he basically felt it was a way for “folks” to make money off of the NBA. Since there’s no cap on how much the front office can spend on non-players, he may not be wrong.

Look at the Dodgers. Analytics can only take you so far. Sometimes you need to go with common rather what the numbers say. It cost them at least one World Series.


Thanks for that. I had successfully blocked this out over the past month.
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PostPosted: Sat Dec 01, 2018 2:39 pm    Post subject:

Aeneas Hunter wrote:
How is this different from any of the other meaningless rhetoric that occasionally spews out of his mouth? "We'll be better once we get better." "We're going to avoid overworking Lebron by not overworking him."


I mean didn't he say this at the start of last season too? We were a completely different team around January that would hang with anyone.
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PostPosted: Sat Dec 01, 2018 2:45 pm    Post subject:

Joe Pesci wrote:
Naw, he’s telling the truth. He may be painting with a broad bruh, but there were posters after the Denver game calling for his resignation. It’s nit imaginary.


People vent on message boards. We all have some degree of emotional investment. For some people, it can cause a short term loss of perspective.
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PostPosted: Sat Dec 01, 2018 3:08 pm    Post subject:

RI Laker wrote:
The hate towards Magic by some on this board is MIND BOGGLING. The man has put us on the map for the 2nd time in his career (once as a player, and now as an executive). He wants to make sure of a few things. Keep LJ's minutes down. He saw what happens (a la KB) when an older player is overused which opens them up to injuries. Magic also does not want LJ to work as hard for scores (we know he doesn't work hard on D). Both the Lakers and LJ said they did not want to run the offense through him as much as teams have in the past. I 100% agree with this. There are a ton of challenges for both the players and Luke as they have to alter their game or coaching because of LJ. The last things we need is a ball dominant LJ who will take the flow out of the game and stifle our kids. We have all played ball with a ball dominant player. It blows and takes everyone out of the game.


If he's able to get another big fish this offseason, then I think he'll be appreciated more for a year of not having wasted money on PG or blown the plan by re-upping Randle. Of course, I always appreciate Magic, I'm not one of the problem, but this is the hard time. At best, this season's team reminds me of one of Kobe's solo-star seasons. Is what it is. I liked that he got on Luke when he did because the winning increased one way or another. We can still lose to any team in the league (and I mean Dallas or Phx, too), and yes, the coaching annoys the sh out of me sometimes, but we're gonna have to be content with riding Brawn hard to keep this group on the right side of .500.
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PostPosted: Sat Dec 01, 2018 3:29 pm    Post subject:

Aeneas Hunter wrote:
24Legend007 wrote:
Popovich speaking the truth though.

https://sports.yahoo.com/spurs-president-coach-gregg-popovich-172143356.html

I could not agree more. The NBA and its analytics has destroyed the game imo. There is no heart and soul anymore, it's all calculations.

It's like music these days. Just because it is more efficient and faster to make music purely digitally does not make it better. The game is probably more efficient these days, but for sure it is more boring to watch then ever imo.


I have to throw the BS flag on the notion that analytics is responsible for the rise of three point shooting. As the graph in that article shows, the rate of three point shooting has been rising for years. When became apparent that the rule changes made it hard to defend on the perimeter, the boom in three point shooting became inevitable. Analytics may have fueled the boom, but analytics did not cause it. Three point shooting is winning basketball, and the league was going to head that direction regardless. D’Antoni’s Suns were the pioneers, and eventually the Warriors buried the old schoolers who insisted that it would never work in the playoffs.

The real question — which is rarely asked — is why the league has made only minor changes to counter this trend. The league cracked down on the leg kick, but the league could have made many other changes, such as allowing more physical defense on the perimeter or changing the three point line to eliminate the short corner three. But the league has done nothing. Evidently, the league has concluded that fans like the way that the game is played. This is an entertainment product, not a performing art. The freedom of movement rules tell us that the league wants more run and gun offense, not a shift back to old school offense. This is driven by fan preferences, not by analytics.


I don't think analytics led to the emergence of more three point shooting, but it probably hastened it. Two truths in basketball that the purists will alway agree with. One, an open shot is generally a good shot, and two, the NBA is a possession game (at least over a broad enough sample). The new rules made it impossible to prevent open 3pt shots if you have a competent high PnR combo. Secondly, the offense gets a higher percentage of rebounds the farther out you shoot. Analytics helped the league understand those value propositions around the floor pretty fast.
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PostPosted: Sat Dec 01, 2018 6:00 pm    Post subject:

Anthony Davis is a lock.
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PostPosted: Sat Dec 01, 2018 11:05 pm    Post subject:

Aeneas Hunter wrote:
24Legend007 wrote:
Popovich speaking the truth though.

https://sports.yahoo.com/spurs-president-coach-gregg-popovich-172143356.html

I could not agree more. The NBA and its analytics has destroyed the game imo. There is no heart and soul anymore, it's all calculations.

It's like music these days. Just because it is more efficient and faster to make music purely digitally does not make it better. The game is probably more efficient these days, but for sure it is more boring to watch then ever imo.


I have to throw the BS flag on the notion that analytics is responsible for the rise of three point shooting. As the graph in that article shows, the rate of three point shooting has been rising for years. When became apparent that the rule changes made it hard to defend on the perimeter, the boom in three point shooting became inevitable. Analytics may have fueled the boom, but analytics did not cause it. Three point shooting is winning basketball, and the league was going to head that direction regardless. D’Antoni’s Suns were the pioneers, and eventually the Warriors buried the old schoolers who insisted that it would never work in the playoffs.

The real question — which is rarely asked — is why the league has made only minor changes to counter this trend. The league cracked down on the leg kick, but the league could have made many other changes, such as allowing more physical defense on the perimeter or changing the three point line to eliminate the short corner three. But the league has done nothing. Evidently, the league has concluded that fans like the way that the game is played. This is an entertainment product, not a performing art. The freedom of movement rules tell us that the league wants more run and gun offense, not a shift back to old school offense. This is driven by fan preferences, not by analytics.


Probably should of worded that better. Didn't mean to put analytics under the microscope

I will say I don't like football anymore, and dont watch it at all. Mainly for all the same reasons. I do understand the safety aspect, but it makes the game less appealing to me. I miss low scoring defensive slugfests in the NFL. I do want people to be safe though, so I just don't watch anymore.
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PostPosted: Sat Dec 01, 2018 11:14 pm    Post subject:

I agree with Pop. I think the NBA has gone overboard with this three pt thing. Just because the Warriors happen to have two all time greats in the back court flinging away and winning titles, they have somehow changed the league. You can't duplicate those shooters on another team with the same accuracy and efficiency. When they're done, so will the fad. The Currys of the world hasn't dominated the NBA long enough for me to forget this is a dominant 6'6 wing player's game. The next super mega star after Lebron and Durant will most likely also be 6'6 and above, who won't be launching threes galore like Curry.
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PostPosted: Sat Dec 01, 2018 11:46 pm    Post subject:

Runway8 wrote:
I agree with Pop. I think the NBA has gone overboard with this three pt thing. Just because the Warriors happen to have two all time greats in the back court flinging away and winning titles, they have somehow changed the league. You can't duplicate those shooters on another team with the same accuracy and efficiency. When they're done, so will the fad. The Currys of the world hasn't dominated the NBA long enough for me to forget this is a dominant 6'6 wing player's game. The next super mega star after Lebron and Durant will most likely also be 6'6 and above, who won't be launching threes galore like Curry.

Hopefully, that would be Ingram with his midrange shots.
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PostPosted: Sat Dec 01, 2018 11:53 pm    Post subject:

Just bring back 1980s defensive rules and this will sort out.
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PostPosted: Sun Dec 02, 2018 4:24 pm    Post subject:

venturalakersfan wrote:
What does he expect, we are playing at a 50 win pace. Looks like they are on track to me.


I'm going to be thrilled if we end out at 50 wins this season. I expect more around 47-48 at this point, but dang who knows.

I'm not disappointed with the team much at this point but when they have these totally krappy first quarters, I find myself crawling back under my rock for a few minutes.

We have a deep team that only has one superstar. We seem to be able to play well enough to stay in games, usually have 6-8 guys in double figures and have 3 or 4 guys that can break out on any given day to score 25 or more.

Then we have one goto guy in Lebron that can take a game over in the fourth quarter.

The only problem with all this is that we have no other guy who can be a sure fire goto offensive scorer. This is a problem because Lebron plays soft for much of some games, he waits until the last 15 minutes to really turn things on. That's OK, I suspect he feels like he needs it to last through the playoffs in this league. Lebron has a lot of mileage on his legs, if he was a rookie I would give him total grief for the times he doesn't even try to play defense. He can be scary bad when it doesn't concern him. That being said, he may have a point. He sure can dominate late in games and as long as our other guys can keep us close, then OK, I can run with it.

I honestly believe if we sign one more superstar to this squad, we are going to be a load to deal with for the rest of the league.

While I would love to sign two more superstars, I know to do that, we will have to gut the team, and then that will require starting from scratch again to build team chemistry. That means two years of Lebron is out the door. We only have him unconditionally for another year, two if he wants. My guess is he won't resign with us after that. If he signs another deal, he will go back home and end his career. And he might not even do that.

If we can sign Kawhi or Durant as a FA, we are in good shape. Then combine everyone for AD, or simply make a run with what we have.
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PostPosted: Sun Dec 02, 2018 4:30 pm    Post subject:

Popps just seems to be whining that the type of basketball he finds most aesthetically pleasing isn't what's most condusive to winning. Theres nothing new in this. People have been complaining how the "purity" of basketball was ruined since players started dribbling with their offhand. (Another irony is the Spurs brand of basketball, while successful, is generally unpopular with fans.)

This isn't really about analytics. All analytics does is make correlations among different types of data to guide you in what actions are provide the highest probability of success.
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PostPosted: Sun Dec 02, 2018 5:44 pm    Post subject:

24Legend007 wrote:
Popovich speaking the truth though.

https://sports.yahoo.com/spurs-president-coach-gregg-popovich-172143356.html

I could not agree more. The NBA and its analytics has destroyed the game imo. There is no heart and soul anymore, it's all calculations.



Actually, there is 17.2% more heart and 9.2% more soul.
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PostPosted: Mon Dec 03, 2018 10:31 am    Post subject:

Aeneas Hunter wrote:
24Legend007 wrote:
Popovich speaking the truth though.

https://sports.yahoo.com/spurs-president-coach-gregg-popovich-172143356.html

I could not agree more. The NBA and its analytics has destroyed the game imo. There is no heart and soul anymore, it's all calculations.

It's like music these days. Just because it is more efficient and faster to make music purely digitally does not make it better. The game is probably more efficient these days, but for sure it is more boring to watch then ever imo.


I have to throw the BS flag on the notion that analytics is responsible for the rise of three point shooting. As the graph in that article shows, the rate of three point shooting has been rising for years. When became apparent that the rule changes made it hard to defend on the perimeter, the boom in three point shooting became inevitable. Analytics may have fueled the boom, but analytics did not cause it. Three point shooting is winning basketball, and the league was going to head that direction regardless. D’Antoni’s Suns were the pioneers, and eventually the Warriors buried the old schoolers who insisted that it would never work in the playoffs.

The real question — which is rarely asked — is why the league has made only minor changes to counter this trend. The league cracked down on the leg kick, but the league could have made many other changes, such as allowing more physical defense on the perimeter or changing the three point line to eliminate the short corner three. But the league has done nothing. Evidently, the league has concluded that fans like the way that the game is played. This is an entertainment product, not a performing art. The freedom of movement rules tell us that the league wants more run and gun offense, not a shift back to old school offense. This is driven by fan preferences, not by analytics.
its driven by both. and lets break the fan word up into groups. there's the casual fan, and the knowledgeable fan. the casual fan wants the high scores by any means necessary. just score. the knowledgeable fan wants people to score as well but in a variety of ways. also in the paint and in the post with bigs who can utilize the post properly. these fans also would like to see better defense being allowed to be played.

I love basketball. but I know for afact even with these high scores it is no where near as fun to watch when you had some guys shooting 3's, while others were killing you in the post.

It may be entertainment. but like music. it is an art form. and there is hopefully some integrity that comes with that. Dont auto tune me to death. SING.
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PostPosted: Mon Dec 03, 2018 11:58 am    Post subject:

splashmtn wrote:
its driven by both. and lets break the fan word up into groups. there's the casual fan, and the knowledgeable fan. the casual fan wants the high scores by any means necessary. just score. the knowledgeable fan wants people to score as well but in a variety of ways. also in the paint and in the post with bigs who can utilize the post properly. these fans also would like to see better defense being allowed to be played.


Presumably, you consider yourself to be a "knowledgeable" fan. So people who think like you are the "knowledgeable" fans. Funny how that works.
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Omar Little
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PostPosted: Mon Dec 03, 2018 12:05 pm    Post subject:

Aeneas Hunter wrote:
splashmtn wrote:
its driven by both. and lets break the fan word up into groups. there's the casual fan, and the knowledgeable fan. the casual fan wants the high scores by any means necessary. just score. the knowledgeable fan wants people to score as well but in a variety of ways. also in the paint and in the post with bigs who can utilize the post properly. these fans also would like to see better defense being allowed to be played.


Presumably, you consider yourself to be a "knowledgeable" fan. So people who think like you are the "knowledgeable" fans. Funny how that works.


And why would the bold portion be anything but a matter of (old school) taste?
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