We don’t know that. Some players, rondo is an example, are better in the playoffs. Lonzo could be one of those players, hell Kuzma could be a playoff monster...or either of them could be a Clarkson and put up historically bad numbers. Have to wait and see.
Lonzo- best defender, best rebounder, best passer, best screener, second best spot up shooter.
Yea sounds like a playoff player on a LeBron team. He’s got holes but the obsession with ppg is so out of control.
It really is
Donovan Mitchell is shooting 41/29 and playing terrible D but taking 19 shots a game for 20 points with a -1.6 BPM with 3r 3a per 36.
Lonzo is 38/34 playing good D and only taking 7 shots a game for 7 points with a 0.4 BPM with 7r 7a per 36.
And Mitchell is a stud and Lonzo a bust? I don’t like low efficiency no d chuckers, seems like I’m in the minority tho.
basketball stats dont scale linearly. Mitchell is in a position where he is trusted to carry the load. Ball is not. Big difference.
None of them, yet. Still way too much inconsistency and flat out dumb plays from our young guys. Still along time left in the regular season, I'm hopeful they'll more ready by April.
Offensively? Not really any of them. because I can't count on any of them to take and or make the wide open big shot. not that i think any of them are afraid of the moment. which is a good thing. no scary cats on this team.
But all of their offenses are so inconsistent at the moment you have no idea if the shot will drop. they're just too raw at the moment.
if i had to put my money on someone, it would be on Josh hart to make a wide open 3, or for him to go to the rack and create contact(no will he get the call if he misses the shot? Probably not)
2nd is kuz, a close 3rd is BI, then Zo in that order.
Defensively this matters. you need specific stops at specific times in the playoffs. especially if the nba is really serious about keeping with this current scoring frenzy and barely allowing guys to play defense. you need to get 2 or 3 key stops down the stretch. with that said.
Zo is my #2 guy on the team only 2nd to Bron for this job. because I know bron KNOWs how to do it if need be. and has the body and ability to do so at any position on the court. Zo is right there. he will help you get a stop and possibly cause a Turnover. comes sometimes just staying in front of your guy isnt good enough. the time is running out and you need to tip a pass, poke a ball loose, get a block. something.
then i have Chandler right there with Zo as well. But we're talking about the kids. so ZO.
Then Josh(only on big men after a switch. the way the current nba is officiated has almost killed a guy like hart's ability to guard his man without fouling. But if its on a switch. I have confidence that josh may actually be able to make a big guy take a tough shot. now will this work vs Denver's prime big? probably not, will this work vs Embid? probably not. But as long as it isnt those two. josh could hold it down for 2 or 3 key possessions in that scenario.
THen BI is a close 3rd, since he can lock his man up on the perimeter.
I will say this about kuz. when the game is on the line. Kuz's defense gets better not worse. thats a good thing.
None of them, yet. Still way too much inconsistency and flat out dumb plays from our young guys. Still along time left in the regular season, I'm hopeful they'll more ready by April.
Remember, I'm asking "showing signs," not necessarily whether they can replace KD in a Game 7.
I think we have 4 guys showing signs. I think Hart could fit in any team's playoff rotation right now.
BI is inconsistent but has some things to offer. Kuz is a defensive liability and Lonzo is not ready now. _________________ From 2-10 to the Western Conference Finals
None of them, yet. Still way too much inconsistency and flat out dumb plays from our young guys. Still along time left in the regular season, I'm hopeful they'll more ready by April.
Remember, I'm asking "showing signs," not necessarily whether they can replace KD in a Game 7.
I think we have 4 guys showing signs. I think Hart could fit in any team's playoff rotation right now.
BI is inconsistent but has some things to offer. Kuz is a defensive liability and Lonzo is not ready now.
but you're only thinking about offense.
Zo isnt ready to score or hit that FT. thats true. but zo right now, tonight is ready to get 3 stops in the 4th quarter and get you two loose balls to help win a playoff game. tell me i'm wrong? tell me that doesnt matter?
kuz isnt as much of a liability defensively when the game is on the line watch him when games are tight. he's a much better defender and rebounder in those moments. but no he aint ready yet. josh can maybe hit an open shot in that scenario. but he can't guard a perimeter player in that scenario without fouling(thanks to the new rules). he can guard a big though. which is weird but still useful on a switch.
BI can play solid defense too in that scenario but i cant count on his touch to make an open jumper or finish at the rim if the foul isnt called.
Obviously you want 2 way players, but they don't always exist. Guys like Roberson become a major liability in the playoffs b/c he has 0 offensive game. _________________ From 2-10 to the Western Conference Finals
Obviously you want 2 way players, but they don't always exist. Guys like Roberson become a major liability in the playoffs b/c he has 0 offensive game.
Strongly disagree. The Thunder think his absence really hurt them last year. I think defense ends up being more important if you aren’t a superstar in the playoffs. Obviously you’d rather the guy not be a liability on offense but I’m taking an offensive liability over a defensive one every time.
Lonzo- best defender, best rebounder, best passer, best screener, second best spot up shooter.
Yea sounds like a playoff player on a LeBron team. He’s got holes but the obsession with ppg is so out of control.
It really is
Donovan Mitchell is shooting 41/29 and playing terrible D but taking 19 shots a game for 20 points with a -1.6 BPM with 3r 3a per 36.
Lonzo is 38/34 playing good D and only taking 7 shots a game for 7 points with a 0.4 BPM with 7r 7a per 36.
And Mitchell is a stud and Lonzo a bust? I don’t like low efficiency no d chuckers, seems like I’m in the minority tho.
basketball stats dont scale linearly. Mitchell is in a position where he is trusted to carry the load. Ball is not. Big difference.
That's true, but you really don't need to go that deep.
Mitchell: +1.62 ORPM, +0.12 DRPM, +1.74 Total RPM
Ball: -0.34 ORPM, -0.19 DRPM, -0.53 Total RPM
So Mitchell is a positive on both ends of the court even though his shooting is off this year. Ball isn't. But Mitchell is a "low efficiency no d chucker" who can't match Ball's intangibles? Yeah, right.
Ball may end up as a better player than Mitchell, Fox, or whoever else. But right now, he's basically a replacement level NBA player. Ball needs to start making some progress, or he'll be filler for a trade.
Obviously you want 2 way players, but they don't always exist. Guys like Roberson become a major liability in the playoffs b/c he has 0 offensive game.
Strongly disagree. The Thunder think his absence really hurt them last year. I think defense ends up being more important if you aren’t a superstar in the playoffs. Obviously you’d rather the guy not be a liability on offense but I’m taking an offensive liability over a defensive one every time.
Roberson has been a liability in the playoffs though. But so too was Korver. I'm not making a blanket statement per se as it's an individual analysis. But our players right now seem to lean one-way (better offense or better defense but not both). _________________ From 2-10 to the Western Conference Finals
I don't feel like they are but there is a long way left on the season for them to grow.
Lonzo hasn't been as good as he was last season. He needs to find confidence in his ability to score at some point or he will be a liability in the playoffs when he has an off game. The biggest thing I think that will help him is improving his ability to finish off drives. He isn't keeping the defense honest right now. On his rare drives he often doesn't score or gets blocked. As a result he tends to pass the ball before the defense commits fully. If he can solve that problem and be a bit more consistent with his jumper he'll be okay.
Ingram has the tools he just needs to stop settling for jumpers. Get to the hole. If you can't get by your guy move the ball quickly and stop pounding the dribble. Also would like to see him more willing to shoot the three.
Kuzma has made some shots in late game situations. He needs to his jumpers to start falling again though. Shooting under 30% from three. He also needs to improve his defense or he will be a liability.
Hart seems the most ready to me. Hasn't panicked under pressure. Has delivered some consistently and made some clutch free throws. Largest complaint I have with him is that his perimeter defense hasn't been as good as billing, though he has done a nice job as a post defender.
It seems to me also that Ingram and Ball have the longest way to go to find a role and fit with Lebron.
Nice thread. The young core member with the most to prove in the payoffs is Walton. In the tournament it becomes about execution and adjustment. He's green in that area and his staff isn't especially experienced there either.
Lonzo should do well because he can impact a game defensively. You can pass up a shot but you can't hide on defense in the playoffs. Hart has been pretty consistent and has developed a nice shot. He should contribute. Ingram's shaky shot and lack of strength, and Kuzma's porous defense might make for some difficult games when opposing coaches of good teams have a chance to pick on those issues.
I actually just went and asked my dad the same question, which of the Lakers young core are showing they're playoff ready to help LeBron.
He turned away from his episode of Blue Bloods and said "The ones they sent to other teams."
I'm now enjoying an Outshine Popsicle whilst staring into the distance. _________________ How NBA 2K18 failed the All-Time Lakers:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kxMBYm3wwxk
Last edited by MJST on Wed Nov 21, 2018 10:05 am; edited 1 time in total
Joined: 16 Jun 2005 Posts: 40345 Location: Dirty South
Posted: Wed Nov 21, 2018 10:16 am Post subject:
Why are we continuing to claim Lonzo is a great defender....he has just not been good on defense this year. I do not need any stats to know that. Watching the Magic game and their broadcasters, they were pointing out how the Lakers were trying to hide him, and the Magic was searching for him in matchups. D.J. Augustin looked like an All NBA player against Ball....then Hart, and was only slowed when we put Ingram on him. Ball then began defending Fournier who began to heat up.
He has some defensive ability.....he has the size and IQ to jump passing lanes, and knows when to often double down on bigs.....but overall, he is an average at best defender. I hate DRPM, so pointing it out means nothing to me.....but for those that treated it as biblical last season, it is painting a different picture this year.
Why are we continuing to claim Lonzo is a great defender....he has just not been good on defense this year. I do not need any stats to know that. Watching the Magic game and their broadcasters, they were pointing out how the Lakers were trying to hide him, and the Magic was searching for him in matchups. D.J. Augustin looked like an All NBA player against Ball....then Hart, and was only slowed when we put Ingram on him. Ball then began defending Fournier who began to heat up.
He has some defensive ability.....he has the size and IQ to jump passing lanes, and knows when to often double down on bigs.....but overall, he is an average at best defender. I hate DRPM, so pointing it out means nothing to me.....but for those that treated it as biblical last season, it is painting a different picture this year.
Because we disagree and believe your evaluation is way off.
I know both Randle and DLO have look a bit better offensively to begin the season, but for the record Randles DRPM is 88th out of 91 PFs and DlOs is 79th out of 90 PGs. Not to say that aren’t having better seasons then BI or Kuzma, but who knows what they’d look like next to Lebron. I don’t think any of the 4 guys I mentioned above look particularly ready for playoff basketball.
Joined: 16 Jun 2005 Posts: 40345 Location: Dirty South
Posted: Wed Nov 21, 2018 10:24 am Post subject:
BigGameHames wrote:
adkindo wrote:
Why are we continuing to claim Lonzo is a great defender....he has just not been good on defense this year. I do not need any stats to know that. Watching the Magic game and their broadcasters, they were pointing out how the Lakers were trying to hide him, and the Magic was searching for him in matchups. D.J. Augustin looked like an All NBA player against Ball....then Hart, and was only slowed when we put Ingram on him. Ball then began defending Fournier who began to heat up.
He has some defensive ability.....he has the size and IQ to jump passing lanes, and knows when to often double down on bigs.....but overall, he is an average at best defender. I hate DRPM, so pointing it out means nothing to me.....but for those that treated it as biblical last season, it is painting a different picture this year.
Because we disagree and believe your evaluation is way off.
we do disagree, but how is my evaluation way off? Everything I said happened.....the stats that I mentioned are what they are if you value them. Just saying my evaluation is "way off" is saying nothing at all.
None of them are ready for the playoffs now. That's why you play them to develop them.
They also need to learn a system, which I guess would be whatever Luke and his coaching staff eventually comes up with.
They are young but their extensions will be coming up in the next couple of years. The only wrong moves would be to overpay them based on some unseen "potential" or trade them too early and they develop as stars somewhere else.
If they turn into solid, sub-star players... great. Pay them as such, team-friendly contracts if possible. If one turns into a superstar (extremely unlikely at this point) even better. Don't have a problem paying a star a star contract.
Again don't overpay for mediocre.
For those that want to trade the young players: If YOU want to get rid of them, why do you think an NBA GM would want them for their star player???
Why are we continuing to claim Lonzo is a great defender....he has just not been good on defense this year. I do not need any stats to know that. Watching the Magic game and their broadcasters, they were pointing out how the Lakers were trying to hide him, and the Magic was searching for him in matchups. D.J. Augustin looked like an All NBA player against Ball....then Hart, and was only slowed when we put Ingram on him. Ball then began defending Fournier who began to heat up.
He has some defensive ability.....he has the size and IQ to jump passing lanes, and knows when to often double down on bigs.....but overall, he is an average at best defender. I hate DRPM, so pointing it out means nothing to me.....but for those that treated it as biblical last season, it is painting a different picture this year.
Because we disagree and believe your evaluation is way off.
we do disagree, but how is my evaluation way off? Everything I said happened.....the stats that I mentioned are what they are if you value them. Just saying my evaluation is "way off" is saying nothing at all.
I’ve heard you use the “they are hiding Zo on defense” thing before. It’s never been based in reality. I didn’t see the Magic game but talked to people I trust about basketball who watched the game and they said a majority of Augustine’s damage was done on Hart who couldn’t keep him out of the paint. They could be wrong and you could be right but at this point I’m going to treat your “they are hiding Zo on defense” argument like the boy who cried wolf especially considering it came after a game where he was matched up with Lillard and did a good job. But maybe it was that last time and there really was a wolf. I’m not gonna take the time to rewatch a Magic regular season game to find out.
I think your assessment that he just hasn’t been good on defense is way off and if givin an opportunity to watch film with you I could explain why.
Obviously you want 2 way players, but they don't always exist. Guys like Roberson become a major liability in the playoffs b/c he has 0 offensive game.
this is true. and roberson's defensive length always catapulted the thunder past the hall of fame team warriors. Dont forget that. and by the way roberson can only do one thing, defend. ball can defend, rebound very well and also setup his teammates. I would take ball over roberson on any day on any team.
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