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LakerLogic
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Joined: 27 Mar 2005
Posts: 17886
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 Posted: Sun Nov 18, 2018 9:46 pm Post subject: |
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| unleasHell wrote: | | I'm growing extremely weary of Zo's continuing lack of offense, every game there is a air-ball, I mean it's embarassing, Fox would have been a much better pick and I've never heard a peep from his dad... |
No airball this game, watch out. |
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Nash Vegas
Star Player
Joined: 01 Sep 2012
Posts: 7239
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| Posted: Sun Nov 18, 2018 10:19 pm Post subject: |
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| Vancouver Fan wrote: | | venturalakersfan wrote: | | Russell is doing pretty well, even playing decent defense. |
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Would Dlo have been a good fit on this current team with LeBron? Haven’t been keeping track of any Nets games.
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dcarter4kobe
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Joined: 30 Jul 2005
Posts: 17674
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| Posted: Sun Nov 18, 2018 10:26 pm Post subject: |
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In a nutshell, you would like more consistent production from your 2nd and 3rd year 2nd picks.
The 2016 draft doesnt look too hot right now. Brown, Bender, Dunn was drafted directly behind Ingram and havent did much this season either. Buddy Hield is having a break out year, but he is also 25. Prince and LeVert (Mike@LG called this one) look to be legit
The 2017 draft obviously had more options. Tatum, Mitchell, Fox.
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"He's a Zen master, so he can speak to you, and he doesn't need a microphone; you can hear him in your head, 'Ron, don't shoot, don't shoot.' Whatever, pow, three. I love the Zen, though." |
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dcarter4kobe
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Joined: 30 Jul 2005
Posts: 17674
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| Posted: Sun Nov 18, 2018 10:30 pm Post subject: |
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| Nash Vegas wrote: | | Vancouver Fan wrote: | | venturalakersfan wrote: | | Russell is doing pretty well, even playing decent defense. |
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Would Dlo have been a good fit on this current team with LeBron? Haven’t been keeping track of any Nets games. |
I saw some where he has one of the highest catch and shoot percentages from 3.....
Dlo and Randle both would have been great fits on this current team.
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"He's a Zen master, so he can speak to you, and he doesn't need a microphone; you can hear him in your head, 'Ron, don't shoot, don't shoot.' Whatever, pow, three. I love the Zen, though." |
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Arbitrary
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Joined: 01 Feb 2009
Posts: 5788
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| Posted: Sun Nov 18, 2018 10:34 pm Post subject: |
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| I think they were all solid project players. "Year 3" is the common theme among most people when it comes to player development, but I usually hold my reservations until after the year they get out of their rookie contracts. |
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tj24
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Joined: 28 May 2010
Posts: 651
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| Posted: Sun Nov 18, 2018 10:51 pm Post subject: |
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Russell and Lonzo were/are massive busts here. Especially lonzo considering the hype.
Ingram is mediocre and from a weak class but nobody is losing sleep for not drafting Murray or brown. |
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Villain6Activated
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Joined: 22 Dec 2011
Posts: 6697
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| Posted: Sun Nov 18, 2018 11:00 pm Post subject: |
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| tj24 wrote: | Russell and Lonzo were/are massive busts here. Especially lonzo considering the hype.
Ingram is mediocre and from a weak class but nobody is losing sleep for not drafting Murray or brown. |
Ingram is still going to turn out to be the second best player in 2016.
DLO has no chance of being #2 in 2015
Ball with 2017 has alot of competition but I wouldn't rule it out. Tatum is 100% ahead of him and fox is outplaying him so far. Mitchell is overrated and I don't think anyone else really matters.
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Vancouver Fan
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Joined: 17 Apr 2006
Posts: 17740
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| Posted: Mon Nov 19, 2018 12:08 am Post subject: |
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| Nash Vegas wrote: | | Vancouver Fan wrote: | | venturalakersfan wrote: | | Russell is doing pretty well, even playing decent defense. |
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Would Dlo have been a good fit on this current team with LeBron? Haven’t been keeping track of any Nets games. |
imo, without question he'd be flourishing with Bron. His game would fit perfectly.
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Vancouver Fan
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Joined: 17 Apr 2006
Posts: 17740
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| Posted: Mon Nov 19, 2018 12:09 am Post subject: |
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| dcarter4kobe wrote: | | Nash Vegas wrote: | | Vancouver Fan wrote: | | venturalakersfan wrote: | | Russell is doing pretty well, even playing decent defense. |
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Would Dlo have been a good fit on this current team with LeBron? Haven’t been keeping track of any Nets games. |
I saw some where he has one of the highest catch and shoot percentages from 3.....
Dlo and Randle both would have been great fits on this current team. |
100%.
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DA1
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| Posted: Mon Nov 19, 2018 12:32 am Post subject: |
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| 1ngr4m wrote: | If you feel that D'Angelo Russell is doing pretty well, hopefully you didn't complain about his play at all his sophomore year. And we're expecting him to get better since his sophomore year.
Cause he's the same player. Same inconsistency. Same type of efficiency. Same type of passing game. Same type of minutes. |
Guys who are saying DLo is doing well are guys who still had faith in DLo through tough times during his Laker tenure.
& you saying he is the same player lets me know you just looked at his stats & haven't actually watched him as of late LMAO. 
It's okay to admit we made a mistake by trading him away so early. |
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PassTheBooze
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Joined: 18 Jul 2014
Posts: 517
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| Posted: Mon Nov 19, 2018 12:46 am Post subject: |
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They haven't been that bad. DLO was traded too early, infuriating that Magic gave up on him this early. Ingram is having a down year but he's still only 21, give him more time to develop and hope he makes the jump next season. As for Ball, I honestly have no idea why people are so down on him. Like Ingram, he's struggling a bit to start the season but he showed a lot of promise in his rookie year. You'd like to see his shooting percentages go up, obviously, but the dude averaged 10/7/7 while playing elite defense. Just because he doesn't have the look of an elite scorer yall are ready to give up on him. Give me a break.
When you look at the prospects drafted after our picks in 15, 16, and 17, the drafting hasn't been that bad. Really the only ones that stick out are from the 2017 class. Tatum, Fox, & Mitchell. Like Ball, Tatum & Mitchell aren't doing so well to start the season. Does that make them busts too? |
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VicXLakers
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Joined: 08 Feb 2006
Posts: 11823
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| Posted: Mon Nov 19, 2018 1:31 am Post subject: |
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I've seen enough ish on the board tonight to last me until Wednesday ...I'm outta here  |
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Villain6Activated
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Joined: 22 Dec 2011
Posts: 6697
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| Posted: Mon Nov 19, 2018 2:03 am Post subject: |
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| DA1 wrote: | | 1ngr4m wrote: | If you feel that D'Angelo Russell is doing pretty well, hopefully you didn't complain about his play at all his sophomore year. And we're expecting him to get better since his sophomore year.
Cause he's the same player. Same inconsistency. Same type of efficiency. Same type of passing game. Same type of minutes. |
Guys who are saying DLo is doing well are guys who still had faith in DLo through tough times during his Laker tenure.
& you saying he is the same player lets me know you just looked at his stats & haven't actually watched him as of late LMAO.
It's okay to admit we made a mistake by trading him away so early. |
He's better, but not by much. He's the same or worse defensively which was a huge concern and a little better offensively but still not great. You can accuse me of not watching games, but the nets reddit said the same things before the past couple of games. I went through the sub for a while and everything about DLO is the same as what we were saying. They were talking about him being wildly inconsistent, him looked half asleep during games, him making jaw dropping passes yet not being a consistently good passer. Defense is still a problem.
His advanced stats are the around the same across the board, a bit better on offense yet someone worse on defense then the 20 year old version of himself. So we'd have all the same concerns about him getting destroyed by point guards. He'd be paired with Lebron and Kuzma which would make for an absolute disaster on defense. But his offense is better right, that should make up for it right?
17 points but on 52% TS which is below league average, even Ingram whose shot selection frustrates this forum to dead is at 52% TS and that's with him barely making threes. 5.5 assists to 2.3 turnovers, better but that's still not good for a starting point guard.
So a point guard that scores inefficiently with bad ass/to ratio whose a defensive liability is the big mistake we made? Lonzo Ball sucking right now doesn't magically make D'Angelo Russell that great.
He's in his 4th season, has legit injury concerns, hasn't improved one bit on one side of the floor which is half the game, still is inefficient in his scoring and still not great at running the offense.
You take that trade back right now, and we're still in the same exact position just with different types of suck. We'd still have an underwhelming young core, we still wouldn't have a sure fire allstar or star that we know will develop next to Lebron, we still would be counting on a max FA and our young core still would be brought up in trade scenarios.
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AFireInside619
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Joined: 11 Dec 2015
Posts: 11447
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| Posted: Mon Nov 19, 2018 2:59 am Post subject: |
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Has it ever occurred to people that maybe some stars may have said they would refuse to come to LA with DLO on the team? It can’t be that far-fetched.
Plus DLO needed to be traded to get off the Moz contract. How else could we have cleared enough space for Lebron? |
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King Randle
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Joined: 21 Jul 2014
Posts: 7313
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| Posted: Mon Nov 19, 2018 6:53 am Post subject: |
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| 1ngr4m wrote: | | tj24 wrote: | Russell and Lonzo were/are massive busts here. Especially lonzo considering the hype.
Ingram is mediocre and from a weak class but nobody is losing sleep for not drafting Murray or brown. |
Ingram is still going to turn out to be the second best player in 2016.
DLO has no chance of being #2 in 2015
Ball with 2017 has alot of competition but I wouldn't rule it out. Tatum is 100% ahead of him and fox is outplaying him so far. Mitchell is overrated and I don't think anyone else really matters. |
Mitchell is overrated? LMAO! If anyone is completely overrated it’s Lonzo...so far on this trip where the PG position is all his. 0 points against Magic...2 points against the Heat. Playing under 25 minutes. Unbelievable |
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Eindhoven
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Joined: 14 Jul 2015
Posts: 1930
Location: Zürich
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| Posted: Mon Nov 19, 2018 7:13 am Post subject: |
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I'm not here to discuss DLO trade, what is done is done, but not acknowledging his improvement, just for argument sake, is dumb.
I've seen some Nets games (easier to catch East Coast games here) and he's been playing well both on and off the ball, depending if he was sharing the backcourt with The Spencer or LeVert.
His shot has improved (40% from 3pt) and his TO numbers are remarkably lower, let alone dumb TOs. His defense is OK, which is a big improvement.
He's far from having a breakout year or running for MIP and he's still not playing as a #2, but he has improved.
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ringfinger
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Joined: 08 Oct 2013
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| Posted: Mon Nov 19, 2018 7:16 am Post subject: |
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Mike is right that all drafted players are projects. However, I do think it is reasonable to place difference expectations on players based on where they were drafted. After all, there is a reason we celebrate when we get a top pick in the draft lottery. If all draft picks were the same as projects, no one would ever tank.
So the way I see it is, at the top of the draft, you're expected to get players with high floors and high ceilings. As you move on down the draft, the floor gets lower and so does the ceiling.
I think it is fair for people to question Lonzo given that he thus far, has shown to have a pretty low floor for someone drafted so high.
Now of course, we should give all young players 4 years before drawing a conclusion. But to be concerned, is IMO, acceptable. |
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Nash Vegas
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Joined: 01 Sep 2012
Posts: 7239
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| Posted: Mon Nov 19, 2018 11:41 am Post subject: |
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If you do a re-do of last years draft, where does Lonzo end up?
Mitchell
Tatum
Fox
Markkenen
Smith
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HOF Rookie
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Joined: 09 Jun 2015
Posts: 1717
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| Posted: Mon Nov 19, 2018 11:53 am Post subject: |
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| Nash Vegas wrote: | If you do a re-do of last years draft, where does Lonzo end up?
Mitchell
Tatum
Fox
Markkenen
Smith |
Some people might put kuzma, hart, and OG in front too.
But if you’re considering age into this, I think your list is about right. |
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ringfinger
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Joined: 08 Oct 2013
Posts: 29418
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| Posted: Mon Nov 19, 2018 11:54 am Post subject: |
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| HOF Rookie wrote: | | Nash Vegas wrote: | If you do a re-do of last years draft, where does Lonzo end up?
Mitchell
Tatum
Fox
Markkenen
Smith |
Some people might put kuzma, hart, and OG in front too.
But if you’re considering age into this, I think your list is about right. |
John collins |
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Staccatos
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Joined: 16 Jul 2002
Posts: 2416
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| Posted: Mon Nov 19, 2018 12:02 pm Post subject: |
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| RG73 wrote: | Lets look at the other #2 picks over the last decade, shall we?
2009 Hasheem Thasbeet--out of the league, Memphis missed Curry and Harden
2010 Evan Turner Philly missed on Cousins, PG, and Hayward
2011 Derrick Williams out of the league Minny missed on Kawhi, Klay, Kemba, Butler
2012 Michael Kidd-Gilchrist Charlotte missed on Beal, Lillard
2013 #2 Oladipo, Orlando gave up on him too soon, missed on Giannis, Gobert, McCollum
2014 Jabari Parker, Bucks passed on Embiid
2015 DLO, passed on Porzingis, Booker
2016 Ingram, not necessarily any huge obvious misses so far, maybe Murray, Brown?
2017 Ball, passed on Tatum, Mitchell, maybe Fox
So if we look at the #2 pick over the last decade there's been one all-star selected. The #2 pick is almost always a miss.
Go back further....98 Bibby picked #2 over Vince, Dirk and Pierce, 99 Francis, but Ginobili, Lamar, Baron, AK47, hell even Metta could all be argued to have had better careers 00 Stormile Swift, 02 Jay Williams over Amare, 03 Darko over Wade, Bosh, Melo 04 Okafor over Ariza, Iggy 05 Marvin Williams over CP3, 06 they got it right with Aldridge, 07 Got it really right with Durant, 08 Major whiff with Beasely over Russ and Love....
The expectation then should be that the #2 pick is going to suck because historically this is almost always the case. If looked at through that lens, then Zo and BI are pretty typical #2 picks. |
This. Now, everyone needs to fired around the league for this travesty of #2 picks. |
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FreakofNature
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Joined: 28 Sep 2007
Posts: 9187
Location: Maui ...
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| Posted: Mon Nov 19, 2018 12:54 pm Post subject: |
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Mitchell and tatum over Ball.... I liked Ball over Fultz at draft time, tatum and Ball were toss ups.
Brown over Ingram, I was a toss up on them at there draft time.
Would anyone give up Kuz and Pope for Beal? At this point I would, but would the Wizards bite on that? |
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ringfinger
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| Posted: Mon Nov 19, 2018 1:09 pm Post subject: |
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| Staccatos wrote: | | RG73 wrote: | Lets look at the other #2 picks over the last decade, shall we?
2009 Hasheem Thasbeet--out of the league, Memphis missed Curry and Harden
2010 Evan Turner Philly missed on Cousins, PG, and Hayward
2011 Derrick Williams out of the league Minny missed on Kawhi, Klay, Kemba, Butler
2012 Michael Kidd-Gilchrist Charlotte missed on Beal, Lillard
2013 #2 Oladipo, Orlando gave up on him too soon, missed on Giannis, Gobert, McCollum
2014 Jabari Parker, Bucks passed on Embiid
2015 DLO, passed on Porzingis, Booker
2016 Ingram, not necessarily any huge obvious misses so far, maybe Murray, Brown?
2017 Ball, passed on Tatum, Mitchell, maybe Fox
So if we look at the #2 pick over the last decade there's been one all-star selected. The #2 pick is almost always a miss.
Go back further....98 Bibby picked #2 over Vince, Dirk and Pierce, 99 Francis, but Ginobili, Lamar, Baron, AK47, hell even Metta could all be argued to have had better careers 00 Stormile Swift, 02 Jay Williams over Amare, 03 Darko over Wade, Bosh, Melo 04 Okafor over Ariza, Iggy 05 Marvin Williams over CP3, 06 they got it right with Aldridge, 07 Got it really right with Durant, 08 Major whiff with Beasely over Russ and Love....
The expectation then should be that the #2 pick is going to suck because historically this is almost always the case. If looked at through that lens, then Zo and BI are pretty typical #2 picks. |
This. Now, everyone needs to fired around the league for this travesty of #2 picks. |
Too lazy to look it up, but something tells me RG73 was not bemoaning our getting the #2 pick.
But those posts are a great way to feel better about it if you think you drafted a bust since misery loves company. |
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MJST
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| Posted: Mon Nov 19, 2018 1:12 pm Post subject: |
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| Vancouver Fan wrote: | | Nash Vegas wrote: | | Vancouver Fan wrote: | | venturalakersfan wrote: | | Russell is doing pretty well, even playing decent defense. |
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Would Dlo have been a good fit on this current team with LeBron? Haven’t been keeping track of any Nets games. |
imo, without question he'd be flourishing with Bron. His game would fit perfectly. |
Russell's game fits next to both LeBron and Lonzo perfectly, just as Randle's game would have fit next to LeBron and everyone else, especially when the Lakers ran small with Randle at the 5 and LeBron at the 4. Imagine that on a fast break.
If the Lakers don't get a max free agent next off-season they can throw 15M contracts at both Randle and Russell in the off-season with post-it's attached saying "Our bad."
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activeverb
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| Posted: Mon Nov 19, 2018 1:18 pm Post subject: |
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| Nash Vegas wrote: | If you do a re-do of last years draft, where does Lonzo end up?
Mitchell
Tatum
Fox
Markkenen
Smith |
It's too early to worry about re-doing drafts. The way you reorder today could be different than how you'd do it next year, especially considering that it's looking like a fairly weak draft. |
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