Is Blake Griffin a HOFamer?
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LongBeachPoly
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PostPosted: Sat Nov 03, 2018 10:59 am    Post subject: Is Blake Griffin a HOFamer?

He's avg 21 pts, 9.2 reb for his career.
5x All Star
3x All NBA 2nd team
1x All NBA 1st team

One MVP type season, possibly a 2nd this year. Those look like HOF numbers. He doesn't feel like a HOF type player though. Wonder what he needs to do to make the HOF.
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PostPosted: Sat Nov 03, 2018 11:03 am    Post subject: Re: Is Blake Griffin a HOFamer?

LongBeachPoly wrote:
Wonder what he needs to do to make the HOF.

Grow up? Probably too late for that...
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PostPosted: Sat Nov 03, 2018 11:25 am    Post subject: Re: Is Blake Griffin a HOFamer?

cathy78 wrote:
LongBeachPoly wrote:
Wonder what he needs to do to make the HOF.

Grow up? Probably too late for that...


What do you mean? Become a better player?
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PostPosted: Sat Nov 03, 2018 11:29 am    Post subject:

Blake Griffin just seems like the most underwhelming #1 overall draft pick who wasn't a bust. That draft had Harden AND Curry (as well as DeRozan) and all the Clippers came away with was Griffin, who has never really seemed like a franchise changing player to me. He also never really seemed to improve much past his 22/12 rookie season.

I don't know how much impact the guy even has on his teams.
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LongBeachPoly
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PostPosted: Sat Nov 03, 2018 11:52 am    Post subject:

CandyCanes wrote:
Blake Griffin just seems like the most underwhelming #1 overall draft pick who wasn't a bust. That draft had Harden AND Curry (as well as DeRozan) and all the Clippers came away with was Griffin, who has never really seemed like a franchise changing player to me. He also never really seemed to improve much past his 22/12 rookie season.

I don't know how much impact the guy even has on his teams.


Yup. Then you look back on his numbers and they're very good. So, don't know what to think.
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PostPosted: Sat Nov 03, 2018 12:27 pm    Post subject:

My first reaction was "Hell no." Then I thought about the real world HoF standards and the fact that he does have a decent string of accolades. I looked at BR, and their algorithm put him at 27%. I'd say that's about right. He's the kind of player who might slip into the Hall after 10 or 20 years.
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PostPosted: Sat Nov 03, 2018 12:38 pm    Post subject:

Aeneas Hunter wrote:
My first reaction was "Hell no." Then I thought about the real world HoF standards and the fact that he does have a decent string of accolades. I looked at BR, and their algorithm put him at 27%. I'd say that's about right. He's the kind of player who might slip into the Hall after 10 or 20 years.


Chris Webber was way better and he didn't get it.

How about Kevin Love?
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LongBeachPoly
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PostPosted: Sat Nov 03, 2018 12:39 pm    Post subject:

Aeneas Hunter wrote:
My first reaction was "Hell no." Then I thought about the real world HoF standards and the fact that he does have a decent string of accolades. I looked at BR, and their algorithm put him at 27%. I'd say that's about right. He's the kind of player who might slip into the Hall after 10 or 20 years.


Yeah, before this year I would have said hell no. But, what he's doing this year - maybe he remade himself. If he puts together a few more like this, then he probably becomes a legit candidate.

But of course, it's only 10 games into the season.
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LongBeachPoly
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PostPosted: Sat Nov 03, 2018 12:41 pm    Post subject:

CandyCanes wrote:
Aeneas Hunter wrote:
My first reaction was "Hell no." Then I thought about the real world HoF standards and the fact that he does have a decent string of accolades. I looked at BR, and their algorithm put him at 27%. I'd say that's about right. He's the kind of player who might slip into the Hall after 10 or 20 years.


Chris Webber was way better and he didn't get it.

How about Kevin Love?


Yeah, that's a good point about Webber.

Kevin Love... he's fallen off so bad. He was on the HOF track before he came to Cleveland.

Kevin Love -

2x All NBA 2nd team
5x All Star
1x reb leader

Seems like his accolades fall short of Blake Griffin.
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dont_be_a_wuss
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PostPosted: Sat Nov 03, 2018 2:55 pm    Post subject:

By NBA standards I say yes since they don't seem to be overly selective like the NFL is.
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PostPosted: Sat Nov 03, 2018 4:01 pm    Post subject:

LongBeachPoly wrote:
CandyCanes wrote:
Aeneas Hunter wrote:
My first reaction was "Hell no." Then I thought about the real world HoF standards and the fact that he does have a decent string of accolades. I looked at BR, and their algorithm put him at 27%. I'd say that's about right. He's the kind of player who might slip into the Hall after 10 or 20 years.


Chris Webber was way better and he didn't get it.

How about Kevin Love?


Yeah, that's a good point about Webber.

Kevin Love... he's fallen off so bad. He was on the HOF track before he came to Cleveland.

Kevin Love -

2x All NBA 2nd team
5x All Star
1x reb leader

Seems like his accolades fall short of Blake Griffin.


How about Draymond Green?
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LongBeachPoly
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PostPosted: Sat Nov 03, 2018 5:29 pm    Post subject:

CandyCanes wrote:
LongBeachPoly wrote:
CandyCanes wrote:
Aeneas Hunter wrote:
My first reaction was "Hell no." Then I thought about the real world HoF standards and the fact that he does have a decent string of accolades. I looked at BR, and their algorithm put him at 27%. I'd say that's about right. He's the kind of player who might slip into the Hall after 10 or 20 years.


Chris Webber was way better and he didn't get it.

How about Kevin Love?


Yeah, that's a good point about Webber.

Kevin Love... he's fallen off so bad. He was on the HOF track before he came to Cleveland.

Kevin Love -

2x All NBA 2nd team
5x All Star
1x reb leader

Seems like his accolades fall short of Blake Griffin.


How about Draymond Green?


Draymond is automatic
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activeverb
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PostPosted: Sat Nov 03, 2018 8:35 pm    Post subject:

LongBeachPoly wrote:
CandyCanes wrote:
Aeneas Hunter wrote:
My first reaction was "Hell no." Then I thought about the real world HoF standards and the fact that he does have a decent string of accolades. I looked at BR, and their algorithm put him at 27%. I'd say that's about right. He's the kind of player who might slip into the Hall after 10 or 20 years.


Chris Webber was way better and he didn't get it.

How about Kevin Love?


Yeah, that's a good point about Webber.

Kevin Love... he's fallen off so bad. He was on the HOF track before he came to Cleveland.

Kevin Love -

2x All NBA 2nd team
5x All Star
1x reb leader

Seems like his accolades fall short of Blake Griffin.



1. Kevin Love has a good shot. He sacrificed personal stats to be the third banana on a ring team, and he still made a couple of all-star teams in Cleveland. That's a pretty common path to the Hall.

2. Griffin is an interesting case. He started off great, but then had a lot of injuries. It might be depend on how he finishes off his career at Detroit

3. Webber seems more like a Hall of Famer than the other too. I was surprised when I looked at the Basketball Reference algoritm and saw he only was 1t 17.6% probability of making the Hall.

For fun, the algoritm considers the most worthy PFs not in the Hall to be (not yet eligible with an *) in order:

Duncan*
Dirk*
Garnett*
Bosh*
Gasol*
Shawn Marion*
Love*
Anthony Davis*

--------------------
THIS IS ABOUT THE 50% probability mark, where most of the guys above are in the Hall and most below it are not. (Active players can still increase their probability)

Shawn Kemp
Draymond Green*
Jermaine O'Neal
Aldridge*
Blake Griffin*
Horace Grant
Chris Webber
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LongBeachPoly
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PostPosted: Sat Nov 03, 2018 10:10 pm    Post subject:

activeverb wrote:
LongBeachPoly wrote:
CandyCanes wrote:
Aeneas Hunter wrote:
My first reaction was "Hell no." Then I thought about the real world HoF standards and the fact that he does have a decent string of accolades. I looked at BR, and their algorithm put him at 27%. I'd say that's about right. He's the kind of player who might slip into the Hall after 10 or 20 years.


Chris Webber was way better and he didn't get it.

How about Kevin Love?


Yeah, that's a good point about Webber.

Kevin Love... he's fallen off so bad. He was on the HOF track before he came to Cleveland.

Kevin Love -

2x All NBA 2nd team
5x All Star
1x reb leader

Seems like his accolades fall short of Blake Griffin.



1. Kevin Love has a good shot. He sacrificed personal stats to be the third banana on a ring team, and he still made a couple of all-star teams in Cleveland. That's a pretty common path to the Hall.

2. Griffin is an interesting case. He started off great, but then had a lot of injuries. It might be depend on how he finishes off his career at Detroit

3. Webber seems more like a Hall of Famer than the other too. I was surprised when I looked at the Basketball Reference algoritm and saw he only was 1t 17.6% probability of making the Hall.

For fun, the algoritm considers the most worthy PFs not in the Hall to be (not yet eligible with an *) in order:

Duncan*
Dirk*
Garnett*
Bosh*
Gasol*
Shawn Marion*
Love*
Anthony Davis*

--------------------
THIS IS ABOUT THE 50% probability mark, where most of the guys above are in the Hall and most below it are not. (Active players can still increase their probability)

Shawn Kemp
Draymond Green*
Jermaine O'Neal
Aldridge*
Blake Griffin*
Horace Grant
Chris Webber


I interesting stats.

Love has fallen off alot this year w/o LeBron. In my eyes, this year hurts his HOF case. But that’s my eyes. I don’t know how the voters see him.
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PostPosted: Sat Nov 03, 2018 10:58 pm    Post subject:

LongBeachPoly wrote:


I interesting stats.

Love has fallen off alot this year w/o LeBron. In my eyes, this year hurts his HOF case. But that’s my eyes. I don’t know how the voters see him.



They've only played 7 games so you can't judge his season yet. He's putting up 19-14-4. He's shooting like crap, but I suspect that's going to rise and he'll end up with stats comparable to what he did in Minnesota.
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PostPosted: Sat Nov 03, 2018 11:11 pm    Post subject:

activeverb wrote:
LongBeachPoly wrote:
CandyCanes wrote:
Aeneas Hunter wrote:
My first reaction was "Hell no." Then I thought about the real world HoF standards and the fact that he does have a decent string of accolades. I looked at BR, and their algorithm put him at 27%. I'd say that's about right. He's the kind of player who might slip into the Hall after 10 or 20 years.


Chris Webber was way better and he didn't get it.

How about Kevin Love?


Yeah, that's a good point about Webber.

Kevin Love... he's fallen off so bad. He was on the HOF track before he came to Cleveland.

Kevin Love -

2x All NBA 2nd team
5x All Star
1x reb leader

Seems like his accolades fall short of Blake Griffin.



1. Kevin Love has a good shot. He sacrificed personal stats to be the third banana on a ring team, and he still made a couple of all-star teams in Cleveland. That's a pretty common path to the Hall.

2. Griffin is an interesting case. He started off great, but then had a lot of injuries. It might be depend on how he finishes off his career at Detroit

3. Webber seems more like a Hall of Famer than the other too. I was surprised when I looked at the Basketball Reference algoritm and saw he only was 1t 17.6% probability of making the Hall.

For fun, the algoritm considers the most worthy PFs not in the Hall to be (not yet eligible with an *) in order:

Duncan*
Dirk*
Garnett*
Bosh*
Gasol*
Shawn Marion*
Love*
Anthony Davis*

--------------------
THIS IS ABOUT THE 50% probability mark, where most of the guys above are in the Hall and most below it are not. (Active players can still increase their probability)

Shawn Kemp
Draymond Green*
Jermaine O'Neal
Aldridge*
Blake Griffin*
Horace Grant
Chris Webber


How is Shawn Marion so high? Am I missing something here?
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PostPosted: Sun Nov 04, 2018 12:05 am    Post subject:

Cwebb will go down as one of the most underrated ever.
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PostPosted: Sun Nov 04, 2018 3:23 am    Post subject:

If his career ended today, I don't think so. He showed he could be an elite rebounder as a rookie, and was then just an average rebounder for most of his career. Top top that off he only had one good rebounding post-season, and one decent one when he averaged 8.8 rebounds. He averaged between 5.5-7.4 rebounds in his other four post-seasons. He was never much of a defender. Never made it past the second round. Then you factor in the injury problems, I just can't see it.

He still can turn that around. If he makes it to the Finals, has some epic post-season performances things could change.
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PostPosted: Sun Nov 04, 2018 5:29 am    Post subject:

activeverb wrote:
LongBeachPoly wrote:


I interesting stats.

Love has fallen off alot this year w/o LeBron. In my eyes, this year hurts his HOF case. But that’s my eyes. I don’t know how the voters see him.



They've only played 7 games so you can't judge his season yet. He's putting up 19-14-4. He's shooting like crap, but I suspect that's going to rise and he'll end up with stats comparable to what he did in Minnesota.


Yes when talking about this yr - there is the caveat that it’s way early

I acknowledge that.

But, can you on the one hand tell me it’s way early and I can’t judge and then on the other hand - say you feel he’ll end up putting up Minny #s?
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PostPosted: Sun Nov 04, 2018 5:31 am    Post subject:

J.C. Smith wrote:
If his career ended today, I don't think so. He showed he could be an elite rebounder as a rookie, and was then just an average rebounder for most of his career. Top top that off he only had one good rebounding post-season, and one decent one when he averaged 8.8 rebounds. He averaged between 5.5-7.4 rebounds in his other four post-seasons. He was never much of a defender. Never made it past the second round. Then you factor in the injury problems, I just can't see it.

He still can turn that around. If he makes it to the Finals, has some epic post-season performances things could change.


Well I don’t think anyone’s making a case that Blake Griffin as of right now, has accomplished enough to be a HOFamer.
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PostPosted: Sun Nov 04, 2018 8:28 am    Post subject:

It will be a joke if Shawn Marion gets it. Also, do people even consider him a PF? I consider him a SF who played PF in small ball lineups.
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PostPosted: Sun Nov 04, 2018 12:22 pm    Post subject:

LongBeachPoly wrote:
activeverb wrote:
LongBeachPoly wrote:


I interesting stats.

Love has fallen off alot this year w/o LeBron. In my eyes, this year hurts his HOF case. But that’s my eyes. I don’t know how the voters see him.



They've only played 7 games so you can't judge his season yet. He's putting up 19-14-4. He's shooting like crap, but I suspect that's going to rise and he'll end up with stats comparable to what he did in Minnesota.


Yes when talking about this yr - there is the caveat that it’s way early

I acknowledge that.

But, can you on the one hand tell me it’s way early and I can’t judge and then on the other hand - say you feel he’ll end up putting up Minny #s?



Right now, it seems moot because he hurt his foot and may miss the whole season.

In the first seven games his 19-14-4 is actually pretty comparable to his time in Minn. The only thing that's off is his shooting percentages. Those are so low compared to his career norm that I predicted they would swing back to the norm over time.

Anyway, it's moot now.
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PostPosted: Sun Nov 04, 2018 12:32 pm    Post subject:

PRLakeShow wrote:


How is Shawn Marion so high? Am I missing something here?


It's a mystery to me. I think it's probably because their formula makes a big deal of win shares, and he's actually 44 on the all-time win share list. Webber gets killed on win share.

Marion win share throughout his career compares well to Scottie Pippen, Elton Brand, Adrien Dantley, Pau Gasol and John Havlicek.
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PostPosted: Sun Nov 04, 2018 2:00 pm    Post subject:

activeverb wrote:
LongBeachPoly wrote:
activeverb wrote:
LongBeachPoly wrote:


I interesting stats.

Love has fallen off alot this year w/o LeBron. In my eyes, this year hurts his HOF case. But that’s my eyes. I don’t know how the voters see him.



They've only played 7 games so you can't judge his season yet. He's putting up 19-14-4. He's shooting like crap, but I suspect that's going to rise and he'll end up with stats comparable to what he did in Minnesota.


Yes when talking about this yr - there is the caveat that it’s way early

I acknowledge that.

But, can you on the one hand tell me it’s way early and I can’t judge and then on the other hand - say you feel he’ll end up putting up Minny #s?



Right now, it seems moot because he hurt his foot and may miss the whole season.

In the first seven games his 19-14-4 is actually pretty comparable to his time in Minn. The only thing that's off is his shooting percentages. Those are so low compared to his career norm that I predicted they would swing back to the norm over time.

Anyway, it's moot now.


In other words, if you have a pessimistic view of how Love's season will turn out, it's way too early. However, if you have an optimistic view of how Love's season will turn out, then it's not too early.

Or, if I agree with your viewpoint, it's not too early; but, if I disagree with your outlook, then it's way too early.

That's interesting how you rationalized how some opinions are way too early but other opinions are not.
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PostPosted: Sun Nov 04, 2018 3:25 pm    Post subject:

LongBeachPoly wrote:
activeverb wrote:
LongBeachPoly wrote:
activeverb wrote:
LongBeachPoly wrote:


I interesting stats.

Love has fallen off alot this year w/o LeBron. In my eyes, this year hurts his HOF case. But that’s my eyes. I don’t know how the voters see him.



They've only played 7 games so you can't judge his season yet. He's putting up 19-14-4. He's shooting like crap, but I suspect that's going to rise and he'll end up with stats comparable to what he did in Minnesota.


Yes when talking about this yr - there is the caveat that it’s way early

I acknowledge that.

But, can you on the one hand tell me it’s way early and I can’t judge and then on the other hand - say you feel he’ll end up putting up Minny #s?



Right now, it seems moot because he hurt his foot and may miss the whole season.

In the first seven games his 19-14-4 is actually pretty comparable to his time in Minn. The only thing that's off is his shooting percentages. Those are so low compared to his career norm that I predicted they would swing back to the norm over time.

Anyway, it's moot now.


In other words, if you have a pessimistic view of how Love's season will turn out, it's way too early. However, if you have an optimistic view of how Love's season will turn out, then it's not too early.

Or, if I agree with your viewpoint, it's not too early; but, if I disagree with your outlook, then it's way too early.

That's interesting how you rationalized how some opinions are way too early but other opinions are not.


That's not quite it. If a long time veteran starts the season shooting either very hot or very cold, I don't expect him to continue to be very hot or very cold for the entire 82 games. Over the course of the season, I expect him to gravitate toward his career norms. So, my expectation is that if love had stayed healthy, his shooting would have improved more toward his normal level.

In the same way, I don't expect Rudy Gay to maintain the 56% three-point shooting that he's had to start the season. His career average from 3-point is 34.5%, so I expect overtime he'll gravitate toward his career normal as well
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