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James ‘Whitey’ Bulger, Boston Mob Kingpin, Found Dead In Federal Prison
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OregonLakerGuy
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Posted: Wed Oct 31, 2018 12:30 am Post subject:

Omar Little wrote:

ExPatLkrFan wrote:

Some people just deserve killing and he was one of them. Turn the page.

That’s not justice. That’s whitey Bulger thinking.

Yup. As his attorney said, Bulger "was sentenced to life in prison, but as a result of decisions by the Federal Bureau of Prisons, that sentence has been changed to the death penalty."

While he was a murderous lowlife and I shed no tears at his execution, officials have a duty to do what is legal. Beyond that, as a society we put humans in cages and while they are there, we have a moral responsibility to keep them reasonably safe. I hope the FBI figures out how this happened. This stinks of corruption and that can never be tolerated. Unfortunately, the prison system in this country is a hideous indecency /rant

DaMuleRules
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Posted: Wed Oct 31, 2018 5:31 am Post subject:

Omar Little wrote:

ExPatLkrFan wrote:

Some people just deserve killing and he was one of them. Turn the page.

That’s not justice. That’s whitey Bulger thinking.

It's the type of justice Whitey understood.
_________________
You thought God was an architect, now you know
He’s something like a pipe bomb ready to blow
And everything you built that’s all for show
goes up in flames
In 24 frames

Jason Isbell

Man, do those lyrics resonate right now

VicXLakers
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Posted: Wed Oct 31, 2018 6:02 am Post subject:

let's put it in perspective ... one less celtic fan

LakerLanny
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Posted: Wed Oct 31, 2018 6:41 am Post subject:

Live by the sword, die by the sword. Yes, prison is ugly. That is why it is a good idea to avoid doing things that place you there. The guy was a stone cold killer who ruined a lot of lives. He also violated his own criminal code by being an informant. Basically a piece of human waste who had a good run until the last five years when it caught up with him. I am fine having him off the public dole. _________________ Love, Laker Lanny

jodeke
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Posted: Wed Oct 31, 2018 7:28 am Post subject:

LongBeachPoly wrote:

Ted wrote:

LongBeachPoly wrote:

adkindo wrote:

I could care less about Bulger, and he likely deserved what he got as justice for the murders he was involved in decades ago. That said, I strongly believe that if the state is going to take someones freedom, they have an obligation for their food, shelter and safety. It is a large price, but one we have to accept as a civilized society. Although he may have deserved death, it was not the right of those that carried out the sentence to make the decision.....and the prison must make sure they do not have the opportunity.

Again, I do not know much about the prison system on a detailed level....but believe that if we as a society continue to lock people in cages for their crimes, we must incur the large cost to ensure that their basic life needs are met.

Is that realistic? Only way to ensure safety is to isolate every prisoner from each other.

Well in this specific case, he wasn't just any prisoner, so this shouldn't have happened unless someone wanted to or let it happen.

How do you make that determination though? Like Bill Cosby, how do you make the determination that ok, it's safe for him to go back to the general population. Or do you just keep him isolated for the entire time?

How does the prison system actually ensure that something like this never happens? Only way is to isolate everyone that might be a "special case" and isolate them for the duration of their life.

They have in the system prisons like
USP Coleman I and II that are built to house offenders like Cosby, Buger and high risk prisoners. Do they deserve special attention? Some may so no. We're supposed to be a civilized society that rid itself of vigilante justice. Bulger ordered the deaths of some using methods that took his life. Do we allow that to dismantle the system we've built?

We have in place a penal system that has levels of incarceration. Law breakers like Cosby, Bulger even Weinstein should be held in the supposed safety of places like USP Coleman, like it or not.

The people we placed in charge of the system need to held accountable for what happened to Bulger. Not for Bulger, for the sake of the system.
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Be who you are and say what you feel because those who mind don't matter and those who matter don't mind.

America will never be destroyed from the outside. If we falter and lose our freedoms, it will be because we destroyed ourselves.

Omar Little
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Posted: Wed Oct 31, 2018 7:59 am Post subject:

DaMuleRules wrote:

Omar Little wrote:

ExPatLkrFan wrote:

Some people just deserve killing and he was one of them. Turn the page.

That’s not justice. That’s whitey Bulger thinking.

It's the type of justice Whitey understood.

And that’s what makes it wrong. One of the things I’m coming to appreciate in these times is the differences between right and wrong, and the moral imperative to not slide into the abyss.
_________________
“We must always take sides. Neutrality helps the oppressor, never the victim. Silence encourages the tormentor, never the tormented.” ― Elie Wiesel

DaMuleRules
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Posted: Wed Oct 31, 2018 8:07 am Post subject:

Omar Little wrote:

DaMuleRules wrote:

Omar Little wrote:

ExPatLkrFan wrote:

Some people just deserve killing and he was one of them. Turn the page.

That’s not justice. That’s whitey Bulger thinking.

It's the type of justice Whitey understood.

And that’s what makes it wrong. One of the things I’m coming to appreciate in these times is the differences between right and wrong, and the moral imperative to not slide into the abyss.

Not a question of "right or wrong", just what "is". He chose to live in and perpetuate a violent, criminal world and that life caught up with him in the way that it inherently does. There's nothing more to it than that.
_________________
You thought God was an architect, now you know
He’s something like a pipe bomb ready to blow
And everything you built that’s all for show
goes up in flames
In 24 frames

Jason Isbell

Man, do those lyrics resonate right now

jodeke
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Posted: Wed Oct 31, 2018 8:37 am Post subject:

We can't allow the way Bulger lived his life dictate how we live ours. Two wrongs don't make a right. What some think he deserved shouldn't be the determining factor on what he should receive. _________________ Be who you are and say what you feel because those who mind don't matter and those who matter don't mind. America will never be destroyed from the outside. If we falter and lose our freedoms, it will be because we destroyed ourselves.

LongBeachPoly
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Posts: 16190

Posted: Wed Oct 31, 2018 8:42 am Post subject:

jodeke wrote:

That's my question though. You named off 3 names. Is it everyone famous /infamous that goes to jail?

I heard they transferred Whitey Bulger because of his declining health. Does that change your opinion?

Do they ensure the safety of every prisoner. What about the non famous prisoners that get shanked?

What are your thoughts on them? What about homosexual prisoners? Don't they deserve xtra protection as well?

I don't know where you draw the line; but it seems impossible to ensure the safety of all prisoners. But maybe this topic is only focused on the safety of famous/infamous prisoners.

Last edited by LongBeachPoly on Wed Oct 31, 2018 8:43 am; edited 1 time in total

DaMuleRules
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Posted: Wed Oct 31, 2018 8:43 am Post subject:

jodeke wrote:

We can't allow the way Bulger lived his life dictate how we live ours. Two wrongs don't make a right. What some think he deserved shouldn't be the determining factor on what he should receive.

Bulger chose to live within a counter-society with its own rules of justice and as a result he met a fate dictated by that society. The rules we apply to ourselves, who live outside of that society, in irrelevant to what happened to him.
_________________
You thought God was an architect, now you know
He’s something like a pipe bomb ready to blow
And everything you built that’s all for show
goes up in flames
In 24 frames

Jason Isbell

Man, do those lyrics resonate right now

LongBeachPoly
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Joined: 14 Jul 2012
Posts: 16190

Posted: Wed Oct 31, 2018 8:44 am Post subject:

jodeke wrote:

We can't allow the way Bulger lived his life dictate how we live ours. Two wrongs don't make a right. What some think he deserved shouldn't be the determining factor on what he should receive.

Thinking that he "deserved" his fate had no bearing on his actual fate though.

jodeke
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Posted: Wed Oct 31, 2018 9:13 am Post subject:

LongBeachPoly wrote:

jodeke wrote:

We can't allow the way Bulger lived his life dictate how we live ours. Two wrongs don't make a right. What some think he deserved shouldn't be the determining factor on what he should receive.

Thinking that he "deserved" his fate had no bearing on his actual fate though.

I know. That was the failing of our penal system.
_________________
Be who you are and say what you feel because those who mind don't matter and those who matter don't mind.

America will never be destroyed from the outside. If we falter and lose our freedoms, it will be because we destroyed ourselves.

adkindo
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Posted: Wed Oct 31, 2018 9:39 am Post subject:

jodeke wrote:

LongBeachPoly wrote:

jodeke wrote:

We can't allow the way Bulger lived his life dictate how we live ours. Two wrongs don't make a right. What some think he deserved shouldn't be the determining factor on what he should receive.

Thinking that he "deserved" his fate had no bearing on his actual fate though.

I know. That was the failing of our penal system.

My opinions are mostly not based on Bulger....he is just the variable in this story. This is not the first or last time this will take place, and that is the real problem. It goes well beyond despicable murderers also.....to many bad things happen to people that simply made one or several really bad decisions in life...people that will be released one day and have parents, children, siblings, etc. that love and care for them. I am not suggesting prison should be a place of tranquil peace....or anything close to it.....but fear of murder and rape on a daily basis is not acceptable for a human that is unable to escape the environment. Our prison system and those employed in them have too often not been held accountable to simple professional standards.

One of many similar stories.....the FBI and DOJ raided a Florida Women's Correctional Center this summer, and the entire facility is still under federal investigation. The stories that have came out of that place would cause any decent human extreme anger. It appears it was basic knowledge if an inmate wanted basic things like a toothbrush or soap (all supposed to be provided free of charge)....the cost was oral *** for a guard. Want anything more than something basic? Your imagination can probably figure out where that ends. Do not comply or do without? Well you may end up in cell with inmates that will earn their toothbrush by making you comply! The scary thing is there have been reports of this to the state and federal government going back decades about this facility, and nothing was ever done until this summer. How would you feel if your wife, daughter or niece.....or hell, even the young girl that works at the gas station screwed up and was sentenced to such a facility?

The prison system in the US needs to be rebuilt from the ground up.

LongBeachPoly
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Posts: 16190

Posted: Wed Oct 31, 2018 9:53 am Post subject:

adkindo wrote:

jodeke wrote:

LongBeachPoly wrote:

jodeke wrote:

We can't allow the way Bulger lived his life dictate how we live ours. Two wrongs don't make a right. What some think he deserved shouldn't be the determining factor on what he should receive.

Thinking that he "deserved" his fate had no bearing on his actual fate though.

I know. That was the failing of our penal system.

That's just corruption though. There's corruption in the private sector. There's corruption at every level. There's corruption in the police department. You can find similar stories in the military at female boot camps with male drill instructors.

We just saw a major scandal in the NCAA recruiting world. There's corruption everywhere.

How do you fight corruption without having to rebuild an entire system from the ground up? That's not realistic nor practical.

jodeke
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Location: In a world where admitting to not knowing something is considered a great way to learn.

Posted: Wed Oct 31, 2018 9:56 am Post subject:

LongBeachPoly wrote:

adkindo wrote:

jodeke wrote:

LongBeachPoly wrote:

jodeke wrote:

We can't allow the way Bulger lived his life dictate how we live ours. Two wrongs don't make a right. What some think he deserved shouldn't be the determining factor on what he should receive.

Thinking that he "deserved" his fate had no bearing on his actual fate though.

I know. That was the failing of our penal system.

That's just corruption though. There's corruption in the private sector. There's corruption at every level. There's corruption in the police department.

How do you fight corruption without having to rebuild an entire system from the ground up? That's not realistic nor practical.

That's a given. Lets stay on point. We're debating the right or wrong of Whitey Bulgers fate. Including every level is not the point.
_________________
Be who you are and say what you feel because those who mind don't matter and those who matter don't mind.

America will never be destroyed from the outside. If we falter and lose our freedoms, it will be because we destroyed ourselves.

LongBeachPoly
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Joined: 14 Jul 2012
Posts: 16190

Posted: Wed Oct 31, 2018 10:35 am Post subject:

jodeke wrote:

LongBeachPoly wrote:

adkindo wrote:

jodeke wrote:

LongBeachPoly wrote:

jodeke wrote:

We can't allow the way Bulger lived his life dictate how we live ours. Two wrongs don't make a right. What some think he deserved shouldn't be the determining factor on what he should receive.

Thinking that he "deserved" his fate had no bearing on his actual fate though.

I know. That was the failing of our penal system.

That's a given. Lets stay on point. We're debating the right or wrong of Whitey Bulgers fate. Including every level is not the point.

Ok. I'm lost then.

One person says:

Quote:

My opinions are mostly not based on Bulger

Whereas another person says:

Quote:

Lets stay on point. We're debating the right or wrong of Whitey Bulgers fate.

Personally, I thought the discussion was a dynamic one and it just flows. I didn't know there was this rigid structure.

Omar Little
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Joined: 02 May 2005
Posts: 90310
Location: Formerly Known As 24

Posted: Wed Oct 31, 2018 10:58 am Post subject:

DaMuleRules wrote:

Omar Little wrote:

DaMuleRules wrote:

Omar Little wrote:

ExPatLkrFan wrote:

Some people just deserve killing and he was one of them. Turn the page.

That’s not justice. That’s whitey Bulger thinking.

It's the type of justice Whitey understood.

And that’s what makes it wrong. One of the things I’m coming to appreciate in these times is the differences between right and wrong, and the moral imperative to not slide into the abyss.

Actually, there is more to it. He was murdered in the custody of the state, in significant part due to decisions made by those in charge of his wellbeing.
_________________
“We must always take sides. Neutrality helps the oppressor, never the victim. Silence encourages the tormentor, never the tormented.” ― Elie Wiesel

LongBeachPoly
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Joined: 14 Jul 2012
Posts: 16190

Posted: Wed Oct 31, 2018 11:10 am Post subject:

Omar Little wrote:

DaMuleRules wrote:

Omar Little wrote:

DaMuleRules wrote:

Omar Little wrote:

ExPatLkrFan wrote:

Some people just deserve killing and he was one of them. Turn the page.

That’s not justice. That’s whitey Bulger thinking.

It's the type of justice Whitey understood.

And that’s what makes it wrong. One of the things I’m coming to appreciate in these times is the differences between right and wrong, and the moral imperative to not slide into the abyss.

Actually, there is more to it. He was murdered in the custody of the state, in significant part due to decisions made by those in charge of his wellbeing.

Quote:

‘Whitey’ Bulger is moved out of Florida prison

Notorious gangster James “Whitey” Bulger, was recently moved from a federal prison in Florida to a transfer facility in Oklahoma, according to the US Bureau of Prisons website.

The agency declined to comment on the reason Bulger was moved or disclose where he will be incarcerated when he leaves the Federal Transfer Center in Oklahoma City.

“For safety, security, and privacy reasons, we can not disclose specifics regarding inmate movement or transfers,” a Bureau of Prisons spokesman said.

However, a person familiar with the situation said Bulger’s health has deteriorated and he is expected to be moved to a federal prison medical facility. Bulger, who turned 89 in September, has suffered from a heart condition for decades — even before he became a fugitive.

Quote:

Whitey Bulger, the notorious gangster, is dead at the age of 89. The New York Times has reported that his death was the result of an assault by two other inmates who had affiliations with organized crime. Bulger had just arrived at US Penitentiary Hazelton in Bruceton Mills, WV. According to information obtained by the Times, Bulger was transferred as a result of a threat he levied against a corrections officer at US Penitentiary Coleman (in Florida). To those who knew Bulger, he could not keep his mouth shut.

The Federal Bureau of Prisons has four levels of prison security facilities, Minimum, Low, Medium and High (there are also Administrative facilities that accommodate multiple security levels ... such as medical facilities and facilities located near federal courthouses). Minimum would be camps, and the other facilities will have higher levels of security and more staff oversight. Those security levels are determined by a point system based on a number of factors such as the crime, criminal history, whether or not the person was allowed to self surrender, etc. The points are added up and the higher the points, the higher the security. Bulger, despite his age, was in the highest security facility (High) and housed at a US Penitentiary (USP).

Bulger was set to serve the remainder of his life in USP Coleman, but the Boston Globe reported that he was transferred on October 25 to a facility in Oklahoma City, a waypoint for many in the BOP [Federal Bureau of Prisons]who are being moved between facilities. He recently arrived at USP Hazelton and would have gone through an evaluation from an administrator at the prison who would have asked if he felt threatened if he were released into general population. Bulger apparently felt no threat and was put into general population where he was killed after being there less than 24 hours.

Those who assaulted Bulger will eventually be charged. By now they will be put into special housing, away from general population. There are cameras and corrections officers all over USP's and, even without someone to snitch about the attack, there is likely a record of the assault.

USPs are noted for violent places with gangs and assaults. Jack Donson, who worked at the BOP for over 23 years, said that it is common for new inmates to be approached about their background upon arrival. "New inmates have their 'papers checked' to see if they were informants, sex offenders or members of law enforcement," Donson said, "but someone like Bulger everybody knows."

Even though Bulger had committed so many crimes, one has to wonder about the BOP's decision to place Bulger in such an environment. Inmates who have cooperated can sometimes qualify for the BOP's WITSEC [Witness Security Program] that puts those who cooperate in a special facility so as to avoid the likelihood of assault due to cooperation with authorities.

"There are six such facilities in the BOP," Donson told me in an interview, "and the identities of the inmates are a closely guarded secret." However, to get into those programs, where assaults are few, requires the sponsorship of someone in the US Attorneys Office and Bulger had pretty much burned that bridge.

According to Donson, the BOP had the discretion to place Bulger in WITSEC but for some reason chose not to do so.

While Bulger went to prison as one of the most heinous criminals of modern times, his death should shine a light on he violence that exists in federal penitentiaries. Each day there are assaults and corrections workers are often put in harms way.

Just last month, 27 year old inmate DeMario Porter was killed at the same prison where Bulger died. Porter was serving a 26 month (yes month) prison term for a probation violation. This is the third inmate death at USP Hazelton in the past 6 months. WV senator Joe Manchin has noted his past concern about understaffing that he believes has played a role in inmate deaths.

According to Richard Heldreth, president of American Federation of Government Employees Local 420, more violence a has taken place at USP Hazelton since staffing cuts were enacted.

“Our staffing complement for the complex was lowered from 880 to 796 staff, of which only 735 positions are currently filled,” Heldreth said. “Even under these new, lower staffing guidelines, the Correctional Services department, which includes the correctional officers, has 34 vacant positions, and the Health Services department that provides emergency medical care for the inmates is operating at just over 75 percent staffing.”

Last edited by LongBeachPoly on Wed Oct 31, 2018 1:01 pm; edited 1 time in total

jodeke
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Posted: Wed Oct 31, 2018 11:56 am Post subject:

LongBeachPoly wrote:

Quote:

However, a person familiar with the situation said Bulger’s health has deteriorated and he is expected to be moved to a federal prison medical facility. Bulger, who turned 89 in September, has suffered from a heart condition for decades — even before he became a fugitive.

United States Penitentiary Coleman 2 | USP Coleman 2

LINK

Quote:

Health Services: USP Coleman 2 provides sick-call, first-aid, dental care, eyeglasses, physical exams, emergency and routine treatment, and follow-up care. Prescription medications are available through the pharmacy. Over-the-counter medications are available through the commissary. Inmates are assigned a specific health services provider who treats them throughout their stay.

Even if the move was necessary Bulger was a at risk prisoner. He never should have been in the general population. I don't see how it can be viewed as anything other than a setup.
_________________
Be who you are and say what you feel because those who mind don't matter and those who matter don't mind.

America will never be destroyed from the outside. If we falter and lose our freedoms, it will be because we destroyed ourselves.

non-player zealot
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Posted: Wed Oct 31, 2018 11:59 am Post subject:

Ted wrote:

What a crazy life he had. The ending is quite fitting.

Also, definitely a set up. He gets killed the day after arriving at a new prison. It shouldn't be that easy to kill someone in prison and get away with it.

I wouldn't bet against the simple incompetence of the workers in any particular institution, but in this case, we won't know why he was transferred there and not somewhere else that could've provided more safety until we're told. In other cases, notorious perps like Dahmer were killed by inmates who weren't supposed to be around them, sometimes because they were wrongly classified into a lesser tier of inmate upon reception. Snafus like that don't need to be setups, those can happen thru incompetence.
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DaMuleRules
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Posted: Wed Oct 31, 2018 12:35 pm Post subject:

Omar Little wrote:

DaMuleRules wrote:

Omar Little wrote:

DaMuleRules wrote:

Omar Little wrote:

ExPatLkrFan wrote:

Some people just deserve killing and he was one of them. Turn the page.

That’s not justice. That’s whitey Bulger thinking.

It's the type of justice Whitey understood.

And that’s what makes it wrong. One of the things I’m coming to appreciate in these times is the differences between right and wrong, and the moral imperative to not slide into the abyss.

Actually, there is more to it. He was murdered in the custody of the state, in significant part due to decisions made by those in charge of his wellbeing.

And again, I'm talking about the realities of Bulger's world - not society's obligations.
_________________
You thought God was an architect, now you know
He’s something like a pipe bomb ready to blow
And everything you built that’s all for show
goes up in flames
In 24 frames

Jason Isbell

Man, do those lyrics resonate right now

Omar Little
Moderator

Joined: 02 May 2005
Posts: 90310
Location: Formerly Known As 24

Posted: Wed Oct 31, 2018 12:39 pm Post subject:

non-player zealot wrote:

Ted wrote:

With really famous guys like that, those aren't accidents. No one ever accidentally let Ted Bundy out of death row, or reclassified Charles Manson.
_________________
“We must always take sides. Neutrality helps the oppressor, never the victim. Silence encourages the tormentor, never the tormented.” ― Elie Wiesel

LongBeachPoly
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Joined: 14 Jul 2012
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Posted: Wed Oct 31, 2018 12:59 pm Post subject:

jodeke wrote:

LongBeachPoly wrote:

Quote:

United States Penitentiary Coleman 2 | USP Coleman 2

LINK

Quote:

Even if the move was necessary Bulger was a at risk prisoner. He never should have been in the general population. I don't see how it can be viewed as anything other than a setup.

The article I posted said that after they transfer him, an administrator would ask him how he feels and it would be his choice to be in general population.

jodeke
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Posted: Wed Oct 31, 2018 1:01 pm Post subject:

LongBeachPoly wrote:

jodeke wrote:

LongBeachPoly wrote:

adkindo wrote:

jodeke wrote:

LongBeachPoly wrote:

jodeke wrote:

We can't allow the way Bulger lived his life dictate how we live ours. Two wrongs don't make a right. What some think he deserved shouldn't be the determining factor on what he should receive.

Thinking that he "deserved" his fate had no bearing on his actual fate though.

I know. That was the failing of our penal system.

That's a given. Lets stay on point. We're debating the right or wrong of Whitey Bulgers fate. Including every level is not the point.

Ok. I'm lost then.

One person says:

Quote:

My opinions are mostly not based on Bulger

Whereas another person says:

Quote:

Lets stay on point. We're debating the right or wrong of Whitey Bulgers fate.

Personally, I thought the discussion was a dynamic one and it just flows. I didn't know there was this rigid structure.

Quoting partials dilutes the intent of the whole.

Quote:

My opinions are mostly not based on Bulger....he is just the variable in this story. This is not the first or last time this will take place, and that is the real problem.

_________________
Be who you are and say what you feel because those who mind don't matter and those who matter don't mind.

America will never be destroyed from the outside. If we falter and lose our freedoms, it will be because we destroyed ourselves.

Last edited by jodeke on Wed Oct 31, 2018 1:08 pm; edited 1 time in total

LongBeachPoly
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Joined: 14 Jul 2012
Posts: 16190

Posted: Wed Oct 31, 2018 1:04 pm Post subject:

jodeke wrote:

LongBeachPoly wrote:

jodeke wrote:

LongBeachPoly wrote:

adkindo wrote:

jodeke wrote:

LongBeachPoly wrote:

jodeke wrote:

We can't allow the way Bulger lived his life dictate how we live ours. Two wrongs don't make a right. What some think he deserved shouldn't be the determining factor on what he should receive.

Thinking that he "deserved" his fate had no bearing on his actual fate though.

I know. That was the failing of our penal system.

That's a given. Lets stay on point. We're debating the right or wrong of Whitey Bulgers fate. Including every level is not the point.

Ok. I'm lost then.

One person says:

Quote:

My opinions are mostly not based on Bulger

Whereas another person says:

Quote:

Lets stay on point. We're debating the right or wrong of Whitey Bulgers fate.

Personally, I thought the discussion was a dynamic one and it just flows. I didn't know there was this rigid structure.

Quoting partials dilutes the intent of the whole.

Quote:

My opinions are mostly not based on Bulger....he is just the variable in this story. This is not the first or last time this will take place, and that is the real problem.

ok. I don't get it.

If he says it's not based on Bulger, it's based on the real problem which is the entire penal system

And you say - stay on point, we're talking about Bulger.

Then I don't get it. What is it that you're pointing out?

You want him to stay on point or you want me to stay on point?

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