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ChickenStu
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 Posted: Thu Jan 24, 2019 1:20 pm Post subject: |
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| LongBeachPoly wrote: | | ChickenStu wrote: | | Even though Pollock has a higher WAR per game in his career than Harper does, I'm certainly not crazy enough to say that he's a better player than Harper. That would be foolish. However, people shouldn't dismiss that information, either, and when you consider that Pollock may end up costing about 1/6 of what Harper will cost, I really don't blame the Dodgers for not seriously pursuing Harper. If Harper's legs are going to be an issue for him going forward, who cares if he's 26? The fact is that he might be less of a hitter than JD Martinez is, who is basically a strict DH, and his defense has been a legitimate issue. And he might get $300+MM. I just don't think it would have been a sound investment. |
The way I see it is - why even talk to him at all? He’s not taking a 4-5 year deal. |
I guess you have to be prepared for every option, so I suppose the Dodgers probably told him, look, if you aren't getting the type of offers you wanted, if your market unexpectedly dries up somehow, we'd be interested in giving you a 5 year deal for big money. But yes, it doesn't seem like we were serious players in this. |
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SGV-Laker fan
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| Posted: Thu Jan 24, 2019 1:35 pm Post subject: |
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| if we can somehow get a frontline starting pitcher, i'd say we had a decent off season. not the big splash everyone was hoping for but i'd take it. |
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ChickenStu
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| Posted: Thu Jan 24, 2019 1:51 pm Post subject: |
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Ten of Harper's 27.4 career WAR came in one season. I mean, he has incredible potential, clearly. His OPS and wRC are great. But when you have put up 1.5 WAR or less in 3 of 7 seasons (and in 2 of the last 3), forgive me if I'm skeptical that you're worth a $300+MM investment.
It's possible that the Dodgers simply didn't like this free agent class. The top pitcher was Corbin, who is coming off a great year but is not a guy that I would call a proven ace. After Harper and Machado, there was a big drop-off in terms of talent among position players. Maybe they just thought it would be best to hold off on a major investment until the right player is there for them. |
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loslakersss
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| Posted: Thu Jan 24, 2019 1:51 pm Post subject: |
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I guess my issue with the off-season (so far) is that they've been trying to save money/get out of the luxury tax for years and we all thought it meant the same thing as the Lakers had planned: to make a splash in FA with hopes to get closer to a title.
But we're now finding out it was saving money simply to save money, which is disappointing considering the amount of money the team brings in being in the 2nd largest market in the country and having the highest attendance in the league for decades regardless of the ridiculous ticket/parking/concessions price hikes year after year.
At some point we start to think "why are we paying all this money when they team doesn't want to spend?" |
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nickuku
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| Posted: Thu Jan 24, 2019 1:52 pm Post subject: |
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| ChickenStu wrote: | Ten of Harper's 27.4 career WAR came in one season. I mean, he has incredible potential, clearly. His OPS and wRC are great. But when you have put up 1.5 WAR or less in 3 of 7 seasons (and in 2 of the last 3), forgive me if I'm skeptical that you're worth a $300+MM investment.
It's possible that the Dodgers simply didn't like this free agent class. The top pitcher was Corbin, who is coming off a great year but is not a guy that I would call a proven ace. After Harper and Machado, there was a big drop-off in terms of talent among position players. Maybe they just thought it would be best to hold off on a major investment until the right player is there for them. |
The only player of that caliber they've invested in long term is Kershaw. I think its time to open up the bank a little more.
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loslakersss
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| Posted: Thu Jan 24, 2019 1:55 pm Post subject: |
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| ChickenStu wrote: | Ten of Harper's 27.4 career WAR came in one season. I mean, he has incredible potential, clearly. His OPS and wRC are great. But when you have put up 1.5 WAR or less in 3 of 7 seasons (and in 2 of the last 3), forgive me if I'm skeptical that you're worth a $300+MM investment.
It's possible that the Dodgers simply didn't like this free agent class. The top pitcher was Corbin, who is coming off a great year but is not a guy that I would call a proven ace. After Harper and Machado, there was a big drop-off in terms of talent among position players. Maybe they just thought it would be best to hold off on a major investment until the right player is there for them. |
Fair point. I understand not re-signing Machado as well as being hesitant regarding Harper. But if no Harper we should have kept Puig and let him walk in a year when we can replace him with someone better. He's arguably our most clutch hitter in the postseason (Turner is the only other clutch hitter). |
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ribeye
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| Posted: Thu Jan 24, 2019 2:00 pm Post subject: |
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| loslakersss wrote: | I guess my issue with the off-season (so far) is that they've been trying to save money/get out of the luxury tax for years and we all thought it meant the same thing as the Lakers had planned: to make a splash in FA with hopes to get closer to a title.
But we're now finding out it was saving money simply to save money, which is disappointing considering the amount of money the team brings in being in the 2nd largest market in the country and having the highest attendance in the league for decades regardless of the ridiculous ticket/parking/concessions price hikes year after year.
At some point we start to think "why are we paying all this money when they team doesn't want to spend?" |
You make a good point, but sometimes the right guy is just not available, at least not for a fair price.
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ChickenStu
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| Posted: Thu Jan 24, 2019 2:19 pm Post subject: |
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| loslakersss wrote: | | ChickenStu wrote: | Ten of Harper's 27.4 career WAR came in one season. I mean, he has incredible potential, clearly. His OPS and wRC are great. But when you have put up 1.5 WAR or less in 3 of 7 seasons (and in 2 of the last 3), forgive me if I'm skeptical that you're worth a $300+MM investment.
It's possible that the Dodgers simply didn't like this free agent class. The top pitcher was Corbin, who is coming off a great year but is not a guy that I would call a proven ace. After Harper and Machado, there was a big drop-off in terms of talent among position players. Maybe they just thought it would be best to hold off on a major investment until the right player is there for them. |
Fair point. I understand not re-signing Machado as well as being hesitant regarding Harper. But if no Harper we should have kept Puig and let him walk in a year when we can replace him with someone better. He's arguably our most clutch hitter in the postseason (Turner is the only other clutch hitter). |
Perhaps they would rather have Pollock under contract for at least 3 seasons (he can opt out after 3 years) instead of Puig for just one more. It was never likely that Puig was going to be a Dodger once he hit free agency. Also, maybe they will use the prospects they got in the Puig deal. They can either be part of another deal, or, if the prospects we already had are part of a deal, then the Reds' former prospects help to replenish our system. |
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LongBeachPoly
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| Posted: Thu Jan 24, 2019 2:37 pm Post subject: |
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| ChickenStu wrote: | | loslakersss wrote: | | ChickenStu wrote: | Ten of Harper's 27.4 career WAR came in one season. I mean, he has incredible potential, clearly. His OPS and wRC are great. But when you have put up 1.5 WAR or less in 3 of 7 seasons (and in 2 of the last 3), forgive me if I'm skeptical that you're worth a $300+MM investment.
It's possible that the Dodgers simply didn't like this free agent class. The top pitcher was Corbin, who is coming off a great year but is not a guy that I would call a proven ace. After Harper and Machado, there was a big drop-off in terms of talent among position players. Maybe they just thought it would be best to hold off on a major investment until the right player is there for them. |
Fair point. I understand not re-signing Machado as well as being hesitant regarding Harper. But if no Harper we should have kept Puig and let him walk in a year when we can replace him with someone better. He's arguably our most clutch hitter in the postseason (Turner is the only other clutch hitter). |
Perhaps they would rather have Pollock under contract for at least 3 seasons (he can opt out after 3 years) instead of Puig for just one more. It was never likely that Puig was going to be a Dodger once he hit free agency. Also, maybe they will use the prospects they got in the Puig deal. They can either be part of another deal, or, if the prospects we already had are part of a deal, then the Reds' former prospects help to replenish our system. |
Yeah, but the problem with that theory is that - they traded Puig first w/o knowing if they can sign Pollock for 3 years at this price.
How much better are the prospects they got for Puig and Wood vs. the draft pick they lose for signing Pollock? |
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ExPatLkrFan
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| Posted: Thu Jan 24, 2019 4:55 pm Post subject: |
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| DuncanIdaho wrote: | | Also, Puig is 3 years younger than Pollock, has a career OPS+ of 127 to his 112, is better defensively and is healthier. Doesn't hit lefties as well, but you just know we'll be platooning Pollock all the time to try to keep him healthy. I just don't get it. |
I get iy. Puig has never been one of Doc's guys. He's tried twice to get rid of him. Puig wants to play everyday (and I think he's earned that right) but it's not happening with this team. When the Dodgers re-upped Roberts Puigs days were numbered like it or not. |
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ExPatLkrFan
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| Posted: Thu Jan 24, 2019 5:02 pm Post subject: |
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| loslakersss wrote: | | 32 wrote: | | Would Realmuto be the full time catcher? They already have Barnes and Martin. |
Is anyone a full time anything on this team? I'm surprised Dave Roberts doesn't get days off too. Maybe he should and he wouldn't have so many boneheaded moves from mental fatigue in the WS. |
One of the smartest things I've ever heard in this board. |
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ExPatLkrFan
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| Posted: Thu Jan 24, 2019 5:17 pm Post subject: |
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| ChickenStu wrote: | | loslakersss wrote: | | ChickenStu wrote: | Ten of Harper's 27.4 career WAR came in one season. I mean, he has incredible potential, clearly. His OPS and wRC are great. But when you have put up 1.5 WAR or less in 3 of 7 seasons (and in 2 of the last 3), forgive me if I'm skeptical that you're worth a $300+MM investment.
It's possible that the Dodgers simply didn't like this free agent class. The top pitcher was Corbin, who is coming off a great year but is not a guy that I would call a proven ace. After Harper and Machado, there was a big drop-off in terms of talent among position players. Maybe they just thought it would be best to hold off on a major investment until the right player is there for them. |
Fair point. I understand not re-signing Machado as well as being hesitant regarding Harper. But if no Harper we should have kept Puig and let him walk in a year when we can replace him with someone better. He's arguably our most clutch hitter in the postseason (Turner is the only other clutch hitter). |
Perhaps they would rather have Pollock under contract for at least 3 seasons (he can opt out after 3 years) instead of Puig for just one more. It was never likely that Puig was going to be a Dodger once he hit free agency. Also, maybe they will use the prospects they got in the Puig deal. They can either be part of another deal, or, if the prospects we already had are part of a deal, then the Reds' former prospects help to replenish our system. |
You also have to consider that Puig was part of the price of dumping Kemp's last 20 million. |
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LongBeachPoly
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| Posted: Thu Jan 24, 2019 5:21 pm Post subject: |
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| ExPatLkrFan wrote: | | You also have to consider that Puig was part of the price of dumping Kemp's last 20 million. |
Wouldn't the Reds have traded Homer Bailey for Kemp straight up?
The price of dumping Kemp's $21.5M this year was paid by taking on Homer Bailey's contract and including $7M cash. |
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ExPatLkrFan
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| Posted: Thu Jan 24, 2019 5:33 pm Post subject: |
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| LongBeachPoly wrote: | | ExPatLkrFan wrote: | | You also have to consider that Puig was part of the price of dumping Kemp's last 20 million. |
Wouldn't the Reds have traded Homer Bailey for Kemp straight up?
The price of dumping Kemp's $21.5M this year was paid by taking on Homer Bailey's contract and including $7M cash. |
That's true, too. Like I said above when they re upped Roberts I considered Puig gone. Also at least with Kemp they got a pinch hitter or a trade chip at the dead line that can go to a team needing a DH. Bailey was worth basically nothing. But I see your point. |
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LongBeachPoly
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LAkers 4 Life
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| Posted: Fri Jan 25, 2019 1:20 pm Post subject: |
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I really like Ruiz's potential and am sad to hear that he'd be involved in the trade for Realmuto. Hopefully the potential of Diego Cartaya will mitigate it and he lives up to the promise as the top international prospect signing from last year.
As for Pollock, I'm still not completely sold on signing him, especially with the injury history and the cost of a draft pick. The deal sounds too much like the Kazmir deal, i.e. get a guy on the cheap with a known injury history, except without the draft pick compensation and we all know how that turned out. |
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ribeye
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| Posted: Fri Jan 25, 2019 1:42 pm Post subject: |
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It makes sense that the Dodgers would include one of their many prospect catchers. If the stories are true, I'm sure we all hope Ruiz doesn't turn out to be some star, but you gotta give something to get something, and in going from a position of strength, this one time I agree with this front office--so long as the other part(s) of the package are reasonable.
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LongBeachPoly
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| Posted: Fri Jan 25, 2019 1:48 pm Post subject: |
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| ribeye wrote: |
It makes sense that the Dodgers would include one of their many prospect catchers. If the stories are true, I'm sure we all hope Ruiz doesn't turn out to be some star, but you gotta give something to get something, and in going from a position of strength, this one time I agree with this front office--so long as the other part(s) of the package are reasonable. |
yeah especially in a couple of years, we can let him go as a FA and get a draft pick compensation for him. |
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ribeye
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| Posted: Fri Jan 25, 2019 2:17 pm Post subject: |
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Since this is a concern for some of us, I thought I'd check Fangraphs for the clutch rating for AJ. He was .03, about average, but certainly better than Puig (-1.13), Joc (-1.39), or Yaz, (-2.42). So this is quite an improvement, and defensively, at least in the outfield, an upgrade as well. Defensively at catcher, by the numbers, seems to be about a wash, though the (very subjective and limited) eye test might not agree.
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Lamar's Bud
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| Posted: Fri Jan 25, 2019 2:58 pm Post subject: |
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Machado to the Padres? If so, seems like that will end well for both parties.  |
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ChickenStu
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| Posted: Fri Jan 25, 2019 3:02 pm Post subject: |
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| ribeye wrote: | | Since this is a concern for some of us, I thought I'd check Fangraphs for the clutch rating for AJ. He was .03, about average, but certainly better than Puig (-1.13), Joc (-1.39), or Yaz, (-2.42). So this is quite an improvement, and defensively, at least in the outfield, an upgrade as well. Defensively at catcher, by the numbers, seems to be about a wash, though the (very subjective and limited) eye test might not agree. |
I saw something on Twitter that basically said that he has one of the best batting lines against elite pitchers in baseball over the past few years. |
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Steve007
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| Posted: Fri Jan 25, 2019 5:42 pm Post subject: |
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| ChickenStu wrote: | | LongBeachPoly wrote: | | ChickenStu wrote: | | Even though Pollock has a higher WAR per game in his career than Harper does, I'm certainly not crazy enough to say that he's a better player than Harper. That would be foolish. However, people shouldn't dismiss that information, either, and when you consider that Pollock may end up costing about 1/6 of what Harper will cost, I really don't blame the Dodgers for not seriously pursuing Harper. If Harper's legs are going to be an issue for him going forward, who cares if he's 26? The fact is that he might be less of a hitter than JD Martinez is, who is basically a strict DH, and his defense has been a legitimate issue. And he might get $300+MM. I just don't think it would have been a sound investment. |
The way I see it is - why even talk to him at all? He’s not taking a 4-5 year deal. |
I guess you have to be prepared for every option, so I suppose the Dodgers probably told him, look, if you aren't getting the type of offers you wanted, if your market unexpectedly dries up somehow, we'd be interested in giving you a 5 year deal for big money. But yes, it doesn't seem like we were serious players in this. |
I would love to see Harper in the lineup but the amount and years he wants is so outrageous that I wouldn’t sign him either. It’s like someone asking for a billion dollars. And good luck trying to trade him when you don’t want him anymore. 10 years? I wouldn’t want to overpay him for years when he sucks.
You know that whoever does sign him to that deal (if he even gets anywhere near that) is making a big mistake. |
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h2omike
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| Posted: Fri Jan 25, 2019 6:07 pm Post subject: |
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| Dodgers seem to have made some reasonable attempts to improve, without going crazy. |
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32
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| Posted: Sat Jan 26, 2019 10:28 am Post subject: |
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| Quote: | | The Los Angeles Dodgers today announced the signing of free agent outfielder A.J. Pollock to a four-year contract with a player option for an additional year. |
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32
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| Posted: Sat Jan 26, 2019 11:26 am Post subject: |
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@alannarizzo
Kenley Jansen is here at #DodgersFF & looks terrific. He told me he lost 25 pounds by working out twice a day. Eating well & a lot of cardio.
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