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LongBeachPoly
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PostPosted: Sat Feb 15, 2020 10:56 am    Post subject:

Dreamshake wrote:
nickuku wrote:
Any of you guys had the stomach to listen to the Astros "apologies"?


The one from the press conference were pretty weak. The ones from the player interviews later weren’t. Correa seemed to be the most apologetic, but I don’t think any apology will suffice unless they forfeit their rings. So it really doesn’t matter....


It really doesn't matter in the sense that no one forced the Astros to do anything....
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PostPosted: Sat Feb 15, 2020 10:57 am    Post subject:

h2omike wrote:
If the leAgue won suspend them, we need pitchers around the league to bean a couple of their stars onto the disabled list.


Good luck with that. The new Manager and Verlander have already called the league out for policing intentionally hitting players, and the Astros get to pitch too. This kinda stuff is cute to say until a full out brawl breaks out (bad for the game) or someone throws a pitch back and seriously injures one of the other teams best players. If you bean Correa and then they injure Mookie then I’m sure you won’t be too happy.

Honestly, do you see one team just watching others injure their guys and not doing the same when it’s their turn to pitch?


Last edited by Dreamshake on Sat Feb 15, 2020 11:02 am; edited 1 time in total
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PostPosted: Sat Feb 15, 2020 11:01 am    Post subject:

LongBeachPoly wrote:
Dreamshake wrote:
nickuku wrote:
Any of you guys had the stomach to listen to the Astros "apologies"?


The one from the press conference were pretty weak. The ones from the player interviews later weren’t. Correa seemed to be the most apologetic, but I don’t think any apology will suffice unless they forfeit their rings. So it really doesn’t matter....


It really doesn't matter in the sense that no one forced the Astros to do anything....


Serious question....what could they force them to do, unless they seriously wanted to fight with the players union, and make the story even worse.
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PostPosted: Sat Feb 15, 2020 11:02 am    Post subject:

Dreamshake wrote:
h2omike wrote:
If the leAgue won suspend them, we need pitchers around the league to bean a couple of their stars onto the disabled list.


Good luck with that. The new Manager and Verlander have already called the league out for policing intentionally hitting players, and the Astros get to pitch too. This kinda stuff is cute to say until a full out brawl breaks out (bad for the game) or someone throws a pitch back and seriously injures one of the other teams best players. If you bean Correa and then they injure Mookie then I’m sure you won’t be too happy.


Funny how things start to get out of control when people feel cheated and then those in charge add insult to injury by not giving out meaningful or appropriate justice to right the wrong. You reap what you sow.
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PostPosted: Sat Feb 15, 2020 11:04 am    Post subject:

Surfitall wrote:
Dreamshake wrote:
h2omike wrote:
If the leAgue won suspend them, we need pitchers around the league to bean a couple of their stars onto the disabled list.


Good luck with that. The new Manager and Verlander have already called the league out for policing intentionally hitting players, and the Astros get to pitch too. This kinda stuff is cute to say until a full out brawl breaks out (bad for the game) or someone throws a pitch back and seriously injures one of the other teams best players. If you bean Correa and then they injure Mookie then I’m sure you won’t be too happy.


Funny how things start to get out of control when people feel cheated and then those in charge add insult to injury by not giving out meaningful or appropriate justice to right the wrong. You reap what you sow.


Ok, so if your pitcher beans an Astro and gets booted for 10 games, and then an Astro sends Mookie to the disabled list, now what? Do you think they won’t hit your guys as well?

Rooting for a pound of flesh is cool until it actually starts to happen.


Last edited by Dreamshake on Sat Feb 15, 2020 11:08 am; edited 2 times in total
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Surfitall
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PostPosted: Sat Feb 15, 2020 11:05 am    Post subject:

Dreamshake wrote:
LongBeachPoly wrote:
Dreamshake wrote:
nickuku wrote:
Any of you guys had the stomach to listen to the Astros "apologies"?


The one from the press conference were pretty weak. The ones from the player interviews later weren’t. Correa seemed to be the most apologetic, but I don’t think any apology will suffice unless they forfeit their rings. So it really doesn’t matter....


It really doesn't matter in the sense that no one forced the Astros to do anything....


Serious question....what could they force them to do, unless they seriously wanted to fight with the players union, and make the story even worse.


Strip them of their title, and take away their ability to legitimately call themselves champions.
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Dreamshake
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PostPosted: Sat Feb 15, 2020 11:08 am    Post subject:

Surfitall wrote:
Dreamshake wrote:
LongBeachPoly wrote:
Dreamshake wrote:
nickuku wrote:
Any of you guys had the stomach to listen to the Astros "apologies"?


The one from the press conference were pretty weak. The ones from the player interviews later weren’t. Correa seemed to be the most apologetic, but I don’t think any apology will suffice unless they forfeit their rings. So it really doesn’t matter....


It really doesn't matter in the sense that no one forced the Astros to do anything....


Serious question....what could they force them to do, unless they seriously wanted to fight with the players union, and make the story even worse.


Strip them of their title, and take away their ability to legitimately call themselves champions.


Say they strip a title. Now do you strip the steroid era ones too, or for other acts of cheating? Do you strip two in a row once Boston is punished? How does that help the game of baseball?
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Surfitall
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PostPosted: Sat Feb 15, 2020 11:10 am    Post subject:

Dreamshake wrote:
Surfitall wrote:
Dreamshake wrote:
h2omike wrote:
If the leAgue won suspend them, we need pitchers around the league to bean a couple of their stars onto the disabled list.


Good luck with that. The new Manager and Verlander have already called the league out for policing intentionally hitting players, and the Astros get to pitch too. This kinda stuff is cute to say until a full out brawl breaks out (bad for the game) or someone throws a pitch back and seriously injures one of the other teams best players. If you bean Correa and then they injure Mookie then I’m sure you won’t be too happy.


Funny how things start to get out of control when people feel cheated and then those in charge add insult to injury by not giving out meaningful or appropriate justice to right the wrong. You reap what you sow.


Ok, so if your pitcher beans an Astro and gets booted for 10 games, and then an Astro sends Mookie to the disabled list, now what? Do you think they won’t hit your guys as well?

Rooting for a pound of flesh is cool until it actually starts to happen.


I never said it was cool. In fact, injustice is never cool.

It’s kind of like when people riot. When people sense injustice, they start to do things that may not even be in their self interest...it’s why a sense of justice is so important to a healthy civilization. In its absence, bad things start to happen. Shame on the Astros for what they did, and shame on MLB for not getting the punishment right.
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PostPosted: Sat Feb 15, 2020 11:20 am    Post subject:

Surfitall wrote:
Dreamshake wrote:
Surfitall wrote:
Dreamshake wrote:
h2omike wrote:
If the leAgue won suspend them, we need pitchers around the league to bean a couple of their stars onto the disabled list.


Good luck with that. The new Manager and Verlander have already called the league out for policing intentionally hitting players, and the Astros get to pitch too. This kinda stuff is cute to say until a full out brawl breaks out (bad for the game) or someone throws a pitch back and seriously injures one of the other teams best players. If you bean Correa and then they injure Mookie then I’m sure you won’t be too happy.


Funny how things start to get out of control when people feel cheated and then those in charge add insult to injury by not giving out meaningful or appropriate justice to right the wrong. You reap what you sow.


Ok, so if your pitcher beans an Astro and gets booted for 10 games, and then an Astro sends Mookie to the disabled list, now what? Do you think they won’t hit your guys as well?

Rooting for a pound of flesh is cool until it actually starts to happen.


I never said it was cool. In fact, injustice is never cool.

It’s kind of like when people riot. When people sense injustice, they start to do things that may not even be in their self interest...it’s why a sense of justice is so important to a healthy civilization. In its absence, bad things start to happen. Shame on the Astros for what they did, and shame on MLB for not getting the punishment right.


To clarify, I’m not saying you said that. My comments are general ones. I’m saying it’s cute to talk about hitting guys until they hit one of yours back, possibly injure one of them back, guys get long suspensions (the Astros are already calling out mlb to punish guys if they do), brawls break out, etc. m

I just don’t honestly see what more MLB could have done without further damaging the sport, since the players union is so strong. Is stripping titles for cheating then can you want to open in “this sport”?
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LongBeachPoly
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PostPosted: Sat Feb 15, 2020 11:25 am    Post subject:

Dreamshake wrote:
LongBeachPoly wrote:
Dreamshake wrote:
nickuku wrote:
Any of you guys had the stomach to listen to the Astros "apologies"?


The one from the press conference were pretty weak. The ones from the player interviews later weren’t. Correa seemed to be the most apologetic, but I don’t think any apology will suffice unless they forfeit their rings. So it really doesn’t matter....


It really doesn't matter in the sense that no one forced the Astros to do anything....


Serious question....what could they force them to do, unless they seriously wanted to fight with the players union, and make the story even worse.


Like you said, it really doesn't matter so there's no need to even ask a "serious question" right?

If it doesn't matter, then it doesn't matter. But one thing we do know is, nothing has been forced upon the Astros. Whether it's the actual act, or the apology. They took it upon themselves.

So if in the end, none of this matters, well, it's something no one forced the Astros to do.
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PostPosted: Sat Feb 15, 2020 11:26 am    Post subject:

Dreamshake wrote:
Surfitall wrote:
Dreamshake wrote:
h2omike wrote:
If the leAgue won suspend them, we need pitchers around the league to bean a couple of their stars onto the disabled list.


Good luck with that. The new Manager and Verlander have already called the league out for policing intentionally hitting players, and the Astros get to pitch too. This kinda stuff is cute to say until a full out brawl breaks out (bad for the game) or someone throws a pitch back and seriously injures one of the other teams best players. If you bean Correa and then they injure Mookie then I’m sure you won’t be too happy.


Funny how things start to get out of control when people feel cheated and then those in charge add insult to injury by not giving out meaningful or appropriate justice to right the wrong. You reap what you sow.


Ok, so if your pitcher beans an Astro and gets booted for 10 games, and then an Astro sends Mookie to the disabled list, now what? Do you think they won’t hit your guys as well?

Rooting for a pound of flesh is cool until it actually starts to happen.


That might be impossible because I don't think they play each other this season.
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LongBeachPoly
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PostPosted: Sat Feb 15, 2020 11:27 am    Post subject:

Dreamshake wrote:
Surfitall wrote:
Dreamshake wrote:
LongBeachPoly wrote:
Dreamshake wrote:
nickuku wrote:
Any of you guys had the stomach to listen to the Astros "apologies"?


The one from the press conference were pretty weak. The ones from the player interviews later weren’t. Correa seemed to be the most apologetic, but I don’t think any apology will suffice unless they forfeit their rings. So it really doesn’t matter....


It really doesn't matter in the sense that no one forced the Astros to do anything....


Serious question....what could they force them to do, unless they seriously wanted to fight with the players union, and make the story even worse.


Strip them of their title, and take away their ability to legitimately call themselves champions.


Say they strip a title. Now do you strip the steroid era ones too, or for other acts of cheating? Do you strip two in a row once Boston is punished? How does that help the game of baseball?


Sounds like a question for Manfred.
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PostPosted: Sat Feb 15, 2020 11:28 am    Post subject:

Dreamshake wrote:
Surfitall wrote:
Dreamshake wrote:
LongBeachPoly wrote:
Dreamshake wrote:
nickuku wrote:
Any of you guys had the stomach to listen to the Astros "apologies"?


The one from the press conference were pretty weak. The ones from the player interviews later weren’t. Correa seemed to be the most apologetic, but I don’t think any apology will suffice unless they forfeit their rings. So it really doesn’t matter....


It really doesn't matter in the sense that no one forced the Astros to do anything....


Serious question....what could they force them to do, unless they seriously wanted to fight with the players union, and make the story even worse.


Strip them of their title, and take away their ability to legitimately call themselves champions.


Say they strip a title. Now do you strip the steroid era ones too, or for other acts of cheating? Do you strip two in a row once Boston is punished? How does that help the game of baseball?


For Boston...we’ll have to see the results of their investigation. In the steroid era, if an entire team was doing roids, if they were showing PowerPoint presentations internally and giving their steroid program a code name, absolutely they should be stripped of their title.

It actually does several good things for baseball. One, it shows all teams from this point forward that cheating as a team will not be tolerated, and that if it’s proven conclusively that you cheated you will not be considered a champion.

Two, it sets an example for children that cheating is not the right way to win, and that there are consequences for your actions.

Three, it restores integrity to the game and sends a message to the fans that if your team wins, they did so because they were the better team, not because they figured out some sneaky way to get an unfair advantage over others.

Four, it calms players down and prevents beanball and player injuries that could come as a result. It says, the cheaters will never be able to call themselves champions, and their careers are forever tarnished.

It doesn’t make up for the fact that other teams were cheated out of winning a title, but it is what most would consider a more equitable punishment.
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PostPosted: Sat Feb 15, 2020 11:30 am    Post subject:

Dreamshake wrote:
I just don’t honestly see what more MLB could have done without further damaging the sport, since the players union is so strong. Is stripping titles for cheating then can you want to open in “this sport”?


Why is it mostly Astros' fans that are most worried about preventing further damage to the sport.
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PostPosted: Sat Feb 15, 2020 11:31 am    Post subject:

h2omike wrote:
If the leAgue won suspend them, we need pitchers around the league to bean a couple of their stars onto the disabled list.


And lose paychecks in the process. And teammates when the Astros respond in kind. Not a very good idea.
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LongBeachPoly
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PostPosted: Sat Feb 15, 2020 11:33 am    Post subject:

Surfitall wrote:
Dreamshake wrote:
Surfitall wrote:
Dreamshake wrote:
LongBeachPoly wrote:
Dreamshake wrote:
nickuku wrote:
Any of you guys had the stomach to listen to the Astros "apologies"?


The one from the press conference were pretty weak. The ones from the player interviews later weren’t. Correa seemed to be the most apologetic, but I don’t think any apology will suffice unless they forfeit their rings. So it really doesn’t matter....


It really doesn't matter in the sense that no one forced the Astros to do anything....


Serious question....what could they force them to do, unless they seriously wanted to fight with the players union, and make the story even worse.


Strip them of their title, and take away their ability to legitimately call themselves champions.


Say they strip a title. Now do you strip the steroid era ones too, or for other acts of cheating? Do you strip two in a row once Boston is punished? How does that help the game of baseball?


For Boston...we’ll have to see the results of their investigation. In the steroid era, if an entire team was doing roids, if they were showing PowerPoint presentations internally and giving their steroid program a code name, absolutely they should be stripped of their title.

It actually does several good things for baseball. One, it shows all teams from this point forward that cheating as a team will not be tolerated, and that if it’s proven conclusively that you cheated you will not be considered a champion.

Two, it sets an example for children that cheating is not the right way to win, and that there are consequences for your actions.

Three, it restores integrity to the game and sends a message to the fans that if your team wins, they did so because they were the better team, not because they figured out some sneaky way to get an unfair advantage over others.

Four, it calms players down and prevents beanball and player injuries that could come as a result. It says, the cheaters will never be able to call themselves champions, and their careers are forever tarnished.

It doesn’t make up for the fact that other teams were cheated out of winning a title, but it is what most would consider a more equitable punishment.


It goes back to the question - is there any type of cheating that would warrant Manfred to strip a title?

If it's just fear of opening up a can of worms, then the answer might be no.

Here's another question, if this happened again, would there be the same punishment or harsher punishment? Would a title be stripped? Would players escape punishment again?


Last edited by LongBeachPoly on Sat Feb 15, 2020 11:37 am; edited 1 time in total
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PostPosted: Sat Feb 15, 2020 11:36 am    Post subject:

LongBeachPoly wrote:
Dreamshake wrote:
I just don’t honestly see what more MLB could have done without further damaging the sport, since the players union is so strong. Is stripping titles for cheating then can you want to open in “this sport”?


Why is it mostly Astros' fans that are most worried about preventing further damage to the sport.


They care deeply about baseball. Probably more deeply than most. I think that’s clear.
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PostPosted: Sat Feb 15, 2020 11:37 am    Post subject:

Surfitall wrote:
LongBeachPoly wrote:
Dreamshake wrote:
I just don’t honestly see what more MLB could have done without further damaging the sport, since the players union is so strong. Is stripping titles for cheating then can you want to open in “this sport”?


Why is it mostly Astros' fans that are most worried about preventing further damage to the sport.


They care deeply about baseball. Probably more deeply than most. I think that’s clear.


Seems like it.
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PostPosted: Sat Feb 15, 2020 11:53 am    Post subject:

LongBeachPoly wrote:
Dreamshake wrote:
LongBeachPoly wrote:
Dreamshake wrote:
nickuku wrote:
Any of you guys had the stomach to listen to the Astros "apologies"?


The one from the press conference were pretty weak. The ones from the player interviews later weren’t. Correa seemed to be the most apologetic, but I don’t think any apology will suffice unless they forfeit their rings. So it really doesn’t matter....


It really doesn't matter in the sense that no one forced the Astros to do anything....


Serious question....what could they force them to do, unless they seriously wanted to fight with the players union, and make the story even worse.


Like you said, it really doesn't matter so there's no need to even ask a "serious question" right?

If it doesn't matter, then it doesn't matter. But one thing we do know is, nothing has been forced upon the Astros. Whether it's the actual act, or the apology. They took it upon themselves.

So if in the end, none of this matters, well, it's something no one forced the Astros to do.
m

I fully believe the Astros were forced, in a backdoor way, to get rid of their GM that rubbed many in baseball wrong.
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Dreamshake
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PostPosted: Sat Feb 15, 2020 11:56 am    Post subject:

LongBeachPoly wrote:
Dreamshake wrote:
I just don’t honestly see what more MLB could have done without further damaging the sport, since the players union is so strong. Is stripping titles for cheating then can you want to open in “this sport”?


Why is it mostly Astros' fans that are most worried about preventing further damage to the sport.


I don’t really care about baseball and have been pretty open about it on this board, and my post history will reflect that. I’m speaking in general. I don’t think MLB wants this story to continue. They cleared Houston prior to a player coming forward, then they had to do something. I expect Boston to get off light with no player on record.
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PostPosted: Sat Feb 15, 2020 12:18 pm    Post subject:

Dreamshake wrote:
LongBeachPoly wrote:
Dreamshake wrote:
I just don’t honestly see what more MLB could have done without further damaging the sport, since the players union is so strong. Is stripping titles for cheating then can you want to open in “this sport”?


Why is it mostly Astros' fans that are most worried about preventing further damage to the sport.


I don’t really care about baseball and have been pretty open about it on this board, and my post history will reflect that. I’m speaking in general. I don’t think MLB wants this story to continue. They cleared Houston prior to a player coming forward, then they had to do something. I expect Boston to get off light with no player on record.


Yeah, and generally speaking, this point of view is most pervasive from Astros fans.
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PostPosted: Sat Feb 15, 2020 1:58 pm    Post subject:

The Dodgers traded Kyle Garlick to the Philadelphia Phillies for minor leaguer Tyler Gilbert.
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PostPosted: Sat Feb 15, 2020 2:44 pm    Post subject:

Kenley and Doc believe the nastiness of his cutter is back after a revamped off-season analysis and training regimen. We'll have to take that with a little catious optimism. If Kenley falters again we have the Gasman waiting in the wings.

Also not sure if this finally marks the swan song for both JT and Seager as members of the Azul. Hoese is waiting in the wings and will help offset the Lux tax going into 2021 I'd let JT walk and/or dump Corey for future assets.
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PostPosted: Sat Feb 15, 2020 3:03 pm    Post subject:

LonzoLegend2 wrote:
Kenley and Doc believe the nastiness of his cutter is back after a revamped off-season analysis and training regimen. We'll have to take that with a little catious optimism. If Kenley falters again we have the Gasman waiting in the wings.

Also not sure if this finally marks the swan song for both JT and Seager as members of the Azul. Hoese is waiting in the wings and will help offset the Lux tax going into 2021 I'd let JT walk and/or dump Corey for future assets.


This is it for JT as a starter. His defense is getting to be a major liability. I don't see them re-signing him this offseason (unless he has a spectacular year offensively and defensively).
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PostPosted: Sat Feb 15, 2020 3:35 pm    Post subject:

LongBeachPoly wrote:
ChickenStu wrote:
jonnybravo wrote:
I'm buying a Belli jersey. I just listened to his interview. Make him a Dodger for life.


If I had to guess, I think we will strongly prioritize making he and Buehler Dodgers for a long time. I don't think the same about Seager.


I agree with you. But just to play devil’s advocate, if we end up signing Mookie Betts this summer...

Out of Seager and Bellinger, Seager might be playing the more irreplaceable position.

Of course, that depends on if we view Bellinger as a CF or corner outfielder.

But of course, Bellinger's the more irreplaceable talent by far. Just saying Seager might be playing the more irreplaceable position.

Nevertheless, if we're going to give big money to a SS in 2 years, I'd imagine they'd rather go after Lindor in free agency.


We could see Lux as the future SS, actually.
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