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loslakersss
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 Posted: Wed Feb 05, 2020 7:16 am Post subject: |
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| I'm so happy with this deal. The Joc one sucks but overall we just got SO much better. A 106-win team adding Mookie Betts is unreal. |
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epic_
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| Posted: Wed Feb 05, 2020 8:07 am Post subject: |
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I wonder if the Dodgers are done.
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LarryCoon
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| Posted: Wed Feb 05, 2020 8:28 am Post subject: |
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As someone with more of a casual level of understanding, can someone answer a couple questions for me?
1.All indications are that Kershaw is no longer the dominant pitcher he was, but that's okay -- older pitchers can adjust their stuff and settle into a mid-rotation rule and continue to be effective for years. But isn't Jansen a big concern? Does he have a recent rate of hits, home runs, blown saves, or whatever advanced metrics you want to use that present a significant weakness in a crucial role?
2. If I'm correct about the above, what is their alternative? Do they have someone else (or can they acquire someone else) who can slam the door in a ninth inning, at a level commensurate with a championship team?
3. I don't remember the exact terminology, but there are "top talent" sports and "bottom talent" sports (I just made those terms up, but not the concepts). A top talent sport (like basketball) is one where it matters more how good the best players are -- if they're good enough, they can make up for any deficiencies the worst players have. A bottom talent sport (like soccer) is the opposite -- what matters more is how good your WORST player on the field is. And I assume, because of the specialization of roles, that baseball is more of a bottom talent sport. If so, and if I'm right about Jansen, then how vulnerable are the Dodgers? What's the true effect of adding a top-talent player like Betts, while not addressing their most significant vulnerability?
Thanks. |
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loslakersss
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| Posted: Wed Feb 05, 2020 8:55 am Post subject: |
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Kershaw and Jansen have definitely declined since the 2017 form but Kershaw has been more successful due to the variety of pitches he throws; he wasn't too reliant on his fastball which has gone from 96 down to 90. Jansen's issue is that he really on has 2 pitches, fastball and cutter. And his cutter has lost movement so it's really not effective anymore. If he can fix that by identifying the problem then he could return to form. If not we have Joe Kelly who has had success as a closer on a championship team (Boston
I think you are correct about the bottom talent comment but it is something that can be covered up too. The Washington Nationals just won a World Series with pretty much no bullpen pitchers seeing any play - something that everyone thought would catch up to them eventually. They ran their 4 starters as much as they could, even using them in relief appearances during their "off" days, and had only 2 other guys pitch in meaningful games for maybe 1 inning each. Essentially their top talent was pushed to the brink to makeup for bottom talent deficiencies.
You are right to be concerned about pitching because we do need Jansen or Kelly to be reliable in that closer role since our starting pitching staff isn't as good as Washington's was, or at least we shouldn't expect them to be. The biggest advantage for the team is the offense should be one of, if not the best in the league which should make games more winnable for our pitching staff. |
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LonzoLegend2
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Joined: 05 Aug 2017
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| Posted: Wed Feb 05, 2020 10:38 am Post subject: |
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So long Strip and Joc (guess Friedman really wanted the Yanks to have competition in the AL)
Betts, rf
Muncy, 1b
Turner, 3b
Bellinger, cf
Saeger, ss
Pollock/Taylor/Kike`, lf
Smith, c
Lux, 2b
Walker
Kersh
Price
May
Gonsolin/Urias/Wood
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jonnybravo
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| Posted: Wed Feb 05, 2020 11:42 am Post subject: |
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| loslakersss wrote: | Kershaw and Jansen have definitely declined since the 2017 form but Kershaw has been more successful due to the variety of pitches he throws; he wasn't too reliant on his fastball which has gone from 96 down to 90. Jansen's issue is that he really on has 2 pitches, fastball and cutter. And his cutter has lost movement so it's really not effective anymore. If he can fix that by identifying the problem then he could return to form. If not we have Joe Kelly who has had success as a closer on a championship team (Boston
I think you are correct about the bottom talent comment but it is something that can be covered up too. The Washington Nationals just won a World Series with pretty much no bullpen pitchers seeing any play - something that everyone thought would catch up to them eventually. They ran their 4 starters as much as they could, even using them in relief appearances during their "off" days, and had only 2 other guys pitch in meaningful games for maybe 1 inning each. Essentially their top talent was pushed to the brink to makeup for bottom talent deficiencies.
You are right to be concerned about pitching because we do need Jansen or Kelly to be reliable in that closer role since our starting pitching staff isn't as good as Washington's was, or at least we shouldn't expect them to be. The biggest advantage for the team is the offense should be one of, if not the best in the league which should make games more winnable for our pitching staff. |
I think the both of them were mentally crushed by the cheating 'Stros. I have high hopes both will have a huge bounce back year.
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ribeye
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| Posted: Wed Feb 05, 2020 12:20 pm Post subject: |
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| jonnybravo wrote: | | loslakersss wrote: | Kershaw and Jansen have definitely declined since the 2017 form but Kershaw has been more successful due to the variety of pitches he throws; he wasn't too reliant on his fastball which has gone from 96 down to 90. Jansen's issue is that he really on has 2 pitches, fastball and cutter. And his cutter has lost movement so it's really not effective anymore. If he can fix that by identifying the problem then he could return to form. If not we have Joe Kelly who has had success as a closer on a championship team (Boston
I think you are correct about the bottom talent comment but it is something that can be covered up too. The Washington Nationals just won a World Series with pretty much no bullpen pitchers seeing any play - something that everyone thought would catch up to them eventually. They ran their 4 starters as much as they could, even using them in relief appearances during their "off" days, and had only 2 other guys pitch in meaningful games for maybe 1 inning each. Essentially their top talent was pushed to the brink to makeup for bottom talent deficiencies.
You are right to be concerned about pitching because we do need Jansen or Kelly to be reliable in that closer role since our starting pitching staff isn't as good as Washington's was, or at least we shouldn't expect them to be. The biggest advantage for the team is the offense should be one of, if not the best in the league which should make games more winnable for our pitching staff. |
I think the both of them were mentally crushed by the cheating 'Stros. I have high hopes both will have a huge bounce back year. |
I have not heard of any physical reason Jansen lost some of his velocity and movement. He's only 32, and has 611.2 innings under his belt. Mariano Rivera, whose out pitch was very similar, a natural cutter, had 579, nearly the same.
After 32, AFTER, Mariano had 409 saves with a 1.89 ERA.
I will take 10 more regular seasons of exactly what Kershaw did last season: 16-5 with a 3.03 (137 ERA+). And I will take ten more guys exactly like that.
There are only six other starting pitchers since the dead ball era (1920ish), who have a better ERA+. SIX.
Post season is another thing. Here, we must rely more on faith. |
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AD23
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Joined: 15 Jul 2019
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| Posted: Wed Feb 05, 2020 12:33 pm Post subject: |
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| LarryCoon wrote: | As someone with more of a casual level of understanding, can someone answer a couple questions for me?
1.All indications are that Kershaw is no longer the dominant pitcher he was, but that's okay -- older pitchers can adjust their stuff and settle into a mid-rotation rule and continue to be effective for years. But isn't Jansen a big concern? Does he have a recent rate of hits, home runs, blown saves, or whatever advanced metrics you want to use that present a significant weakness in a crucial role?
2. If I'm correct about the above, what is their alternative? Do they have someone else (or can they acquire someone else) who can slam the door in a ninth inning, at a level commensurate with a championship team?
3. I don't remember the exact terminology, but there are "top talent" sports and "bottom talent" sports (I just made those terms up, but not the concepts). A top talent sport (like basketball) is one where it matters more how good the best players are -- if they're good enough, they can make up for any deficiencies the worst players have. A bottom talent sport (like soccer) is the opposite -- what matters more is how good your WORST player on the field is. And I assume, because of the specialization of roles, that baseball is more of a bottom talent sport. If so, and if I'm right about Jansen, then how vulnerable are the Dodgers? What's the true effect of adding a top-talent player like Betts, while not addressing their most significant vulnerability?
Thanks. |
Dodgers signed Blake Treinen. If he rebounds, he could be the set up/closer. 2019 was a down year for him but in 2018 he was lights out with 0.78 era and 38 saves and made the all star team.
Additionally Dodgers can also add weapons to help fill any holes during the trade deadline.
The Dodgers also unlike other teams do not overuse their SPs. So Price will benefit from pitching 150-175 innings
Lastly Betts is an amazing hitter (check out his WAR). He will be our leadoff hitter which is crazy to begin with!
I am very excited for the season! |
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jonnybravo
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Joined: 21 Sep 2007
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| Posted: Wed Feb 05, 2020 1:00 pm Post subject: |
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| AD23 wrote: | | LarryCoon wrote: | As someone with more of a casual level of understanding, can someone answer a couple questions for me?
1.All indications are that Kershaw is no longer the dominant pitcher he was, but that's okay -- older pitchers can adjust their stuff and settle into a mid-rotation rule and continue to be effective for years. But isn't Jansen a big concern? Does he have a recent rate of hits, home runs, blown saves, or whatever advanced metrics you want to use that present a significant weakness in a crucial role?
2. If I'm correct about the above, what is their alternative? Do they have someone else (or can they acquire someone else) who can slam the door in a ninth inning, at a level commensurate with a championship team?
3. I don't remember the exact terminology, but there are "top talent" sports and "bottom talent" sports (I just made those terms up, but not the concepts). A top talent sport (like basketball) is one where it matters more how good the best players are -- if they're good enough, they can make up for any deficiencies the worst players have. A bottom talent sport (like soccer) is the opposite -- what matters more is how good your WORST player on the field is. And I assume, because of the specialization of roles, that baseball is more of a bottom talent sport. If so, and if I'm right about Jansen, then how vulnerable are the Dodgers? What's the true effect of adding a top-talent player like Betts, while not addressing their most significant vulnerability?
Thanks. |
Dodgers signed Blake Treinen. If he rebounds, he could be the set up/closer. 2019 was a down year for him but in 2018 he was lights out with 0.78 era and 38 saves and made the all star team.
Additionally Dodgers can also add weapons to help fill any holes during the trade deadline.
The Dodgers also unlike other teams do not overuse their SPs. So Price will benefit from pitching 150-175 innings
Lastly Betts is an amazing hitter (check out his WAR). He will be our leadoff hitter which is crazy to begin with!
I am very excited for the season! |
I've been among the most vocal opponets of giving 300M + to players like Machado/Harper. To me, that sort of money has to go for a guy that's BASELINE an all-star with occasional spikes of MVP years (or Trout who's an MVP candidate every year). Neither Machado or Harper have shown the consistency to be that guy at all. Mookie's that guy.
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LongBeachPoly
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| Posted: Wed Feb 05, 2020 1:03 pm Post subject: |
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| jonnybravo wrote: | | I've been among the most vocal opponets of giving 300M + to players like Machado/Harper. To me, that sort of money has to go for a guy that's BASELINE an all-star with occasional spikes of MVP years (or Trout who's an MVP candidate every year). Neither Machado or Harper have shown the consistency to be that guy at all. Mookie's that guy. |
Machado was that type of player in Baltimore. He hasn't been the same since leaving Baltimore. |
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jonnybravo
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| Posted: Wed Feb 05, 2020 1:25 pm Post subject: |
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| LongBeachPoly wrote: | | jonnybravo wrote: | | I've been among the most vocal opponets of giving 300M + to players like Machado/Harper. To me, that sort of money has to go for a guy that's BASELINE an all-star with occasional spikes of MVP years (or Trout who's an MVP candidate every year). Neither Machado or Harper have shown the consistency to be that guy at all. Mookie's that guy. |
Machado was that type of player in Baltimore. He hasn't been the same since leaving Baltimore. |
Mm, I don't know, I was thinking more of guys that are at worse 4-5ish WAR with spikes that might double that. 7 WAR were his best with multiple years between 2-3.
Not enough for me at least.
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LongBeachPoly
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| Posted: Wed Feb 05, 2020 1:49 pm Post subject: |
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| jonnybravo wrote: | | LongBeachPoly wrote: | | jonnybravo wrote: | | I've been among the most vocal opponets of giving 300M + to players like Machado/Harper. To me, that sort of money has to go for a guy that's BASELINE an all-star with occasional spikes of MVP years (or Trout who's an MVP candidate every year). Neither Machado or Harper have shown the consistency to be that guy at all. Mookie's that guy. |
Machado was that type of player in Baltimore. He hasn't been the same since leaving Baltimore. |
Mm, I don't know, I was thinking more of guys that are at worse 4-5ish WAR with spikes that might double that. 7 WAR were his best with multiple years between 2-3.
Not enough for me at least. |
There was talk of Machado getting $400M when he was in Baltimore.
25 years old
Gold Glove defense
.850-900 ops
30+ HRs every year
Plays a premium defensive position (3B or SS)
Yeah, Machado was no doubt worth the money until he left Baltimore and then that weird free agent summer where no one got paid. |
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DrWolf
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Location: At the basketball court next to yours, CA
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| Posted: Wed Feb 05, 2020 2:37 pm Post subject: |
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| ksmgf wrote: | | JamezAmp wrote: | | If the Dodgers don’t get it done this year, they never will. |
We will win as long we don’t play the cheatros. |
the problem is history with making moves never seems to do it for us.
Manny Ramirez, Hanley Ramirez, Manny Machado, did they come in and help us solve our problems? No, it was season after season of disappointment. And right now i cannot confidently say oh betts will solve our issues. I hoping im wrong though
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loslakersss
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| Posted: Wed Feb 05, 2020 2:57 pm Post subject: |
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| The Ramirez's definitely did come in and make us contenders. We were on the brink of making the World Series in 2008 and 2009 but Broxton choked in game 4 both years. Then Hanley came and we looked like the NL favorite if not the favorite for the WS until he got hit in the ribs and there went our season. Both guys did what they were expected to do and then exceeded that. Machado definitely wasn't cut from the same cloth though. |
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DrWolf
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| Posted: Wed Feb 05, 2020 3:08 pm Post subject: |
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| loslakersss wrote: | | The Ramirez's definitely did come in and make us contenders. We were on the brink of making the World Series in 2008 and 2009 but Broxton choked in game 4 both years. Then Hanley came and we looked like the NL favorite if not the favorite for the WS until he got hit in the ribs and there went our season. Both guys did what they were expected to do and then exceeded that. Machado definitely wasn't cut from the same cloth though. |
I remember 2008/2009 very vividly, matt stairs got the best of him two times. Definitely agree on Machado, but i cannot confidently look at the dodgers and say we will win the grand prize, a lot has to go in our favor. the AL for example, may have a down year since we dont know how Boston/Astros will be, since they are both the heavy hitters of the AL, and the nationals came out of nowhere so..
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Surfitall
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| Posted: Wed Feb 05, 2020 3:15 pm Post subject: |
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| DrWolf wrote: | | loslakersss wrote: | | The Ramirez's definitely did come in and make us contenders. We were on the brink of making the World Series in 2008 and 2009 but Broxton choked in game 4 both years. Then Hanley came and we looked like the NL favorite if not the favorite for the WS until he got hit in the ribs and there went our season. Both guys did what they were expected to do and then exceeded that. Machado definitely wasn't cut from the same cloth though. |
I remember 2008/2009 very vividly, matt stairs got the best of him two times. Definitely agree on Machado, but i cannot confidently look at the dodgers and say we will win the grand prize, a lot has to go in our favor. the AL for example, may have a down year since we dont know how Boston/Astros will be, since they are both the heavy hitters of the AL, and the nationals came out of nowhere so.. |
Yankees vs. Dodgers this year in the WS, I'm calling it. |
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loslakersss
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| Posted: Wed Feb 05, 2020 3:18 pm Post subject: |
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| I agree that a championship or even a WS appearance isn't a given even if we stay healthy. But I think the likelihood is pretty high considering how consistent we've been the past 4 years. I'm very confident in what this team can do with 2 prime MVPs in the lineup. |
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DrWolf
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| Posted: Wed Feb 05, 2020 3:26 pm Post subject: |
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| loslakersss wrote: | | I agree that a championship or even a WS appearance isn't a given even if we stay healthy. But I think the likelihood is pretty high considering how consistent we've been the past 4 years. I'm very confident in what this team can do with 2 prime MVPs in the lineup. |
I'm 50-50 on it, we have gotten 7 straight NL West crowns, and i know thats solid consistency, but until i see kershaw or whoever it is get that 3rd out in the top of the 9th in a WS clincher at dodger stadium, i am Not convinced
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LongBeachPoly
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| Posted: Wed Feb 05, 2020 4:12 pm Post subject: |
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Why did we trade Stripling? Only thing I can think of is we weren’t planning on him making the 26 man roster?
We got rid of both Maeda and Stripling.
Maybe that means Wood, Gonsolin and May all make the opening day roster.
I assume we carry 13 pitchers?
1. Buehler
2. Kershaw
3. Price
4. Wood
5. Urias
6. Gonsolin
7. May
8. Baez
9. Jansen
10. Treinen
11. Kolarek
12. Joe Kelly
13. Scott Alexander or Jimmy Nelson?
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Bob Nightengale
@BNightengale
The #Angels and #Dodgers still working to finalize their deal that now is expected to include Dodgers pitcher Ross Stripling. The Dodgers would send OF Joe Pederson and Stripling to the #Angels for middle infielder Luis Rengifo and two prospects. Still, a lot of moving parts.
8:38 AM · Feb 5, 2020 |
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ChickenStu
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| Posted: Thu Feb 06, 2020 1:36 am Post subject: |
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So the Betts trade may have to be slightly re-worked, due to Boston having concerns on Graterol's medicals, the pitching prospect coming from Minnesota.
If Boston backs out of this, we riot. |
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ChickenStu
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| Posted: Thu Feb 06, 2020 8:42 am Post subject: |
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Ken Rosenthal
@Ken_Rosenthal
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2m
Infielder Max Muncy in agreement with #Dodgers on three-year, $26M extension, sources tell The Athletic. Deal also includes a $13.5M option for a fourth year or $1.5M buyout. |
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LongBeachPoly
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| Posted: Thu Feb 06, 2020 8:49 am Post subject: |
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| ChickenStu wrote: | Ken Rosenthal
@Ken_Rosenthal
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2m
Infielder Max Muncy in agreement with #Dodgers on three-year, $26M extension, sources tell The Athletic. Deal also includes a $13.5M option for a fourth year or $1.5M buyout. |
Great deal.
We owed Muncy around $4.6M this year.
So we bought out his last 2 arbitration years for $20M. Very reasonable.
And we got an option year for his first year of free agency. Wonder if it's a mutual or team option?
Great deal. |
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AD23
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| Posted: Thu Feb 06, 2020 9:05 am Post subject: |
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| LongBeachPoly wrote: | | ChickenStu wrote: | Ken Rosenthal
@Ken_Rosenthal
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2m
Infielder Max Muncy in agreement with #Dodgers on three-year, $26M extension, sources tell The Athletic. Deal also includes a $13.5M option for a fourth year or $1.5M buyout. |
Great deal.
We owed Muncy around $4.6M this year.
So we bought out his last 2 arbitration years for $20M. Very reasonable.
And we got an option year for his first year of free agency. Wonder if it's a mutual or team option?
Great deal. |
This is great news. That option year is definitely team considering the $1.5mm buyout.
Happy for Muncy. Didn’t look like his career would pan out and goes to Doyers and makes the most of it. |
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AD23
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| Posted: Thu Feb 06, 2020 9:06 am Post subject: |
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| ChickenStu wrote: | So the Betts trade may have to be slightly re-worked, due to Boston having concerns on Graterol's medicals, the pitching prospect coming from Minnesota.
If Boston backs out of this, we riot. |
I think they will get 2 prospects instead of the 1 |
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LongBeachPoly
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| Posted: Thu Feb 06, 2020 9:34 am Post subject: |
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