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LongBeachPoly
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PostPosted: Thu Dec 12, 2019 1:47 pm    Post subject:

greenfrog wrote:
LongBeachPoly wrote:
greenfrog wrote:
LongBeachPoly wrote:
Quote:
Yankees, Mets, and Dodgers among teams pursuing Josh Hader trade, per report

The Brewers are seeking a significant return and a deal is characterized as unlikely.

In a follow up piece in the Athletic, Rosenthal identified the Yankees as the most active pursuer of Hader, but he notes that a deal with any club is unlikely. Milwaukee would want a lot to deal Josh Hader. The question is how much would another team be willing to give up. The only comparable swap in the last five years would be the Aroldis Chapman trade between the Yankees and Chicago Cubs that netted the Yankees Gleyber Torres plus three other prospects, and that trade was made at the trade deadline.

The Brewers are reported to be asking for a package that includes at least one top prospect. Players that would have to headline such a package from the teams Rosenthal lists might include Deivi Garcia, Gavin Lux, and Dustin May, plus more in prospect and/or MLB ready talent. Rosenthal suggests teams are hesitant to part with such assets for a reliever, even if that reliever is Josh Hader.

https://www.brewcrewball.com/2019/12/12/21012653/milwaukee-brewers-josh-hader-trade-yankees-mets-dodgers-teams-pursuing


I'll classify this under too good to be true. I'd give them Seager and May (probably Lux) in a heartbeat.


I wouldn't.

Hader was starting to lose some effectiveness last year. We don't know how long he can stay dominant.

Having control of May and Lux for the next 6 years are important for us to being able to pay Bellinger/Buehler/Muncy when the time comes.

Lux might also be insurance for Seager in 2 years.

If May develops, we could be moving forward with 3 very good young pitchers: Buehler, Urias, May


If we weren't right on the cusp of winning a championship I would agree, but the path is right there. Add a beast of a closer, and I think the drought is over.


Yeah, it's debatable to me that we are a closer away. We still haven't hit in the postseason. Right now, we're short a starter.

Every year for the last however many years, it's been said that we were on the cusp. But every year we've held onto our highly prized prospects and it's paid off for us.

We held onto Bellinger, Pederson, Verdugo, Urias, Seager, Buehler and they are the reasons why we're in the position that we are.

I like our track record in identifying which prospects to hold onto and which ones to let go.

I think Lux and May are in that category.

If Hader was the final piece that we needed, maybe I can see it. But he's not. We still have lots of holes on this team.

We're still behind the Yankees and it's arguable if we're behind the Astros as well.

With or without Hader, we're still the favorites in the NL.
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Mark_in_Tulsa
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PostPosted: Thu Dec 12, 2019 1:48 pm    Post subject:

adkindo wrote:
Mark_in_Tulsa wrote:
Arenado>Rendon


in my opinion, Arenado> all other MLB 3rd Basemen


I agree
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PostPosted: Thu Dec 12, 2019 2:04 pm    Post subject:

LongBeachPoly wrote:
greenfrog wrote:
LongBeachPoly wrote:
greenfrog wrote:
LongBeachPoly wrote:
Quote:
Yankees, Mets, and Dodgers among teams pursuing Josh Hader trade, per report

The Brewers are seeking a significant return and a deal is characterized as unlikely.

In a follow up piece in the Athletic, Rosenthal identified the Yankees as the most active pursuer of Hader, but he notes that a deal with any club is unlikely. Milwaukee would want a lot to deal Josh Hader. The question is how much would another team be willing to give up. The only comparable swap in the last five years would be the Aroldis Chapman trade between the Yankees and Chicago Cubs that netted the Yankees Gleyber Torres plus three other prospects, and that trade was made at the trade deadline.

The Brewers are reported to be asking for a package that includes at least one top prospect. Players that would have to headline such a package from the teams Rosenthal lists might include Deivi Garcia, Gavin Lux, and Dustin May, plus more in prospect and/or MLB ready talent. Rosenthal suggests teams are hesitant to part with such assets for a reliever, even if that reliever is Josh Hader.

https://www.brewcrewball.com/2019/12/12/21012653/milwaukee-brewers-josh-hader-trade-yankees-mets-dodgers-teams-pursuing


I'll classify this under too good to be true. I'd give them Seager and May (probably Lux) in a heartbeat.


I wouldn't.

Hader was starting to lose some effectiveness last year. We don't know how long he can stay dominant.

Having control of May and Lux for the next 6 years are important for us to being able to pay Bellinger/Buehler/Muncy when the time comes.

Lux might also be insurance for Seager in 2 years.

If May develops, we could be moving forward with 3 very good young pitchers: Buehler, Urias, May


If we weren't right on the cusp of winning a championship I would agree, but the path is right there. Add a beast of a closer, and I think the drought is over.


Yeah, it's debatable to me that we are a closer away. We still haven't hit in the postseason. Right now, we're short a starter.

Every year for the last however many years, it's been said that we were on the cusp. But every year we've held onto our highly prized prospects and it's paid off for us.

We held onto Bellinger, Pederson, Verdugo, Urias, Seager, Buehler and they are the reasons why we're in the position that we are.

I like our track record in identifying which prospects to hold onto and which ones to let go.

I think Lux and May are in that category.

If Hader was the final piece that we needed, maybe I can see it. But he's not. We still have lots of holes on this team.

We're still behind the Yankees and it's arguable if we're behind the Astros as well.

With or without Hader, we're still the favorites in the NL.


We have imperfections, but nothing like the closing position (it takes on a greater magnitude in the postseason because the games are always closer). The offense was annoying but good enough, IMO. Bellinger came around mid-series, and Muncy and Turner are reliable (once Lux was benched Kike was too). Same with the starting pitching. Annoying but sufficient.
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LongBeachPoly
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PostPosted: Thu Dec 12, 2019 2:19 pm    Post subject:

greenfrog wrote:
We have imperfections, but nothing like the closing position (it takes on a greater magnitude in the postseason because the games are always closer). The offense was annoying but good enough, IMO. Bellinger came around mid-series, and Muncy and Turner are reliable (once Lux was benched Kike was too). Same with the starting pitching. Annoying but sufficient.


Yeah, we got beat by Washington who had a really shaky bullpen. So shaky that their starters were also their bullpen against us.

Yeah, if you think our offense was good enough to win it all last year, maybe we should agree to disagree.

In my opinion, if our offense performs like it did in next year's playoffs, I think we'll get bounced again, with or without Hader.

Quote:
Dodgers: Andrew Friedman Calls Out Team’s Lack of Postseason Hitting

“It definitely fell short of my hopes in terms of how as a team the offense would adapt.”


“But it definitely fell short of my hopes in terms of how as a team the offense would kind of adapt and tackle the difficulties of October pitching. And I think hopefully it’s another one of those areas that we can focus on this off-season and continue to refine and make better as we go into next year.”

Notably, he says they will refine it. Whether or not that means philosophy employed by the hitting coaches or acquiring new players remains to be seen. Without question, the Dodgers lack of offense in the final 5 games they played in 2019 did not go without notice by Friedman.
Finally, he says in so many words that the team was pressing a bit with everyone trying to play the role of hero. Without naming names, you can think of a few players that this could apply to.

“I think human nature is to want to be the hero, which I totally understand. But it’s that in October, I think pitchers feed off that. And they throw less fastballs, they throw less pitches in the zone and I think it’s just that awareness and that second-level thinking and team-wide approach that I think put us in a better position. It’s a hard thing to counteract because, again, what they’re doing is the most difficult thing to do in all of sports in my opinion. You have that human instinct, which is, ‘I want to be the hero.'

https://www.dodgersnation.com/dodgers-andrew-friedman-calls-out-teams-lack-of-postseason-hitting/2019/10/22/
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PostPosted: Thu Dec 12, 2019 2:28 pm    Post subject:

Well, I expect games to be lower scoring in the playoffs. The offense was no more frustrating last season than when we took it to a Game 7 in the WS, for me.
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LongBeachPoly
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PostPosted: Thu Dec 12, 2019 2:46 pm    Post subject:

greenfrog wrote:
Well, I expect games to be lower scoring in the playoffs. The offense was no more frustrating last season than when we took it to a Game 7 in the WS, for me.


Yeah, if you feel our offense is good enough and we're just a closer away, then maybe we don't need Hader at all.

We just got Treinen and if he regains his form, then we're right there. So maybe we're already a championship team as constructed.

Maybe Treinen is the missing piece.
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PostPosted: Thu Dec 12, 2019 2:50 pm    Post subject:

Hader was losing effectiveness at the end of last season, but I don't think it's anything to be alarmed about. They had a big playoff push at the end of the year without Yelich and they had to rely on Hader a lot, and perhaps he was just out of gas a little bit in the last few weeks. And even though he wasn't quite as dominant as he was in '18, I mean, he's still great. That said, I don't know about giving up the likes of May/Lux for him.

Hearing that there are some permutations of a Lindor trade that include Clevinger is a good thing. Dude is very, very good.

Not sure I'd be excited about spending another $10MM for 1 year, let's say, on Betances. It fits the pattern of this regime not wanting to commit long-term money, but in the meantime, you'd be spending $20MM (since we got Treinen) on the bullpen and it isn't even a foregone conclusion that it works.
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epak
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PostPosted: Thu Dec 12, 2019 3:15 pm    Post subject:

adkindo wrote:
epak wrote:


Lindor, Hand and Kluber for Seager, May, Joc, Ruiz?



I thought that looked solid....but the baseball trade simulator suggests the Dodgers would be getting screwed.


Quote:
Name Position MTV ($Ms)
Hand - LHRP - 3.6
Kluber - SP - 2.7
Lindor - SS - 63.4
Total Value: 69.70


Quote:
Name Position MTV ($Ms)
May - SP - 61.4
Pederson - OF - 12.7
Ruiz - C - 50.6
Seager - SS - 57.6
Total Value: 182.30


Kluber only played a handful of games last year due to injury I believe, which definitely skews the numbers in the machine.
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epak
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PostPosted: Thu Dec 12, 2019 3:16 pm    Post subject:

Seems the Dodgers have made their offers to the Indians. Lets see if they bite on any of the offers.
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PostPosted: Thu Dec 12, 2019 3:32 pm    Post subject:

Quote:
The Indians are believed to covet Gavin Lux and Dustin May as part of their return, and presumably would insist on receiving both top prospects if Clevinger was sent to L.A.

https://dodgerblue.com/dodgers-trade-rumors-talks-with-indians-include-francisco-lindor-mike-clevinger-scenario/2019/12/12/


Clevinger and Lindor puts us right there with the Yankees. If we can also re-sign Ryu, oh boy.

Buehler
Clevinger
Ryu
Kershaw
Urias/Maeda

Dominant starting rotation


I could imagine what the Indians would ask for to trade both Clevinger and Lindor. How many from the following list?


Jeter Downs
Josiah Gray
Dustin May
Tony Gonsolin
Gavin Lux
Keibert Ruiz
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adkindo
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PostPosted: Thu Dec 12, 2019 8:12 pm    Post subject:

epak wrote:
Kluber only played a handful of games last year due to injury I believe, which definitely skews the numbers in the machine.


yes, the simulator seems to have a lot of issues
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jonnybravo
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PostPosted: Thu Dec 12, 2019 8:52 pm    Post subject:

LongBeachPoly wrote:
Quote:
The Indians are believed to covet Gavin Lux and Dustin May as part of their return, and presumably would insist on receiving both top prospects if Clevinger was sent to L.A.

https://dodgerblue.com/dodgers-trade-rumors-talks-with-indians-include-francisco-lindor-mike-clevinger-scenario/2019/12/12/


Clevinger and Lindor puts us right there with the Yankees. If we can also re-sign Ryu, oh boy.

Buehler
Clevinger
Ryu
Kershaw
Urias/Maeda

Dominant starting rotation


I could imagine what the Indians would ask for to trade both Clevinger and Lindor. How many from the following list?


Jeter Downs
Josiah Gray
Dustin May
Tony Gonsolin
Gavin Lux
Keibert Ruiz


I'll take just about anyone at this point. Not that I expected the FO to pull the trigger on any big ticket FA but I was holding out a glimmer of hope.
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epak
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PostPosted: Sat Dec 14, 2019 10:54 am    Post subject:

Dodgers hitting is like the Houston Rockets of baseball.
Great regular season, but come playoff time we fall short as other teams adjust to counter our strengths, and we're so used to being successful with our style in the regular season, we fail to adjust.

Really hoping the LOOGY rule helps us.
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PostPosted: Sat Dec 14, 2019 11:41 am    Post subject:

Just need a starting staff that doesn't tip their pitches in the playoffs......
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PostPosted: Sat Dec 14, 2019 4:27 pm    Post subject:

Jon Heyman

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·
2m


Dodgers said still to be more focused on Lindor. Dodger roster is so good that it may take superstar to seriously improve it.
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LongBeachPoly
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PostPosted: Sat Dec 14, 2019 8:05 pm    Post subject:

Quote:
Anthony Rendon on not choosing Dodgers: L.A.'s 'Hollywood lifestyle' not a fit

ANAHEIM, Calif. -- The Los Angeles Dodgers approached this year's winter meetings with striking aggression but nonetheless whiffed on the two biggest prizes in free agency. They offered Gerrit Cole a contract that reached $300 million but watched him join the New York Yankees on a record deal. They expressed interest in Anthony Rendon but learned that the sentiment wasn't mutual.

Instead, Rendon joined the Los Angeles Angels, who play 30 miles south in Anaheim, located outside of Los Angeles County.

Rendon, speaking during his introductory news conference on Saturday, spoke highly of the Dodgers organizationally but said from the podium that "the Hollywood lifestyle" of L.A. "didn't seem like it would be a fit for us as a family." Later, in a smaller scrum, Rendon, who was born and raised in Houston, was asked about his general hesitancy toward the state of California at the onset of the offseason, and he joked about the high tax rate.

"I just think environment itself," Rendon continued. "I think when people think about California, they think about straight Hollywood, that Hollywood glamour, whole bunch of flashes, so much paparazzi. But everyone said it's just the complete opposite here."


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lakersken80
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PostPosted: Sat Dec 14, 2019 8:08 pm    Post subject:

Laughable when I heard that comment, the only difference between the two clubs is expectations. They play in the same media market and the same people reporting on the Dodgers also report on the Angels as well.
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LongBeachPoly
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PostPosted: Sat Dec 14, 2019 8:15 pm    Post subject:

lakersken80 wrote:
Laughable when I heard that comment, the only difference between the two clubs is expectations. They play in the same media market and the same people reporting on the Dodgers also report on the Angels as well.


Yeah, and he mentioned family. But, you can live anywhere. If you want to live in the OC you could.

You don't have to be about that "Hollywood lifestyle" if you don't want.
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PostPosted: Sat Dec 14, 2019 8:23 pm    Post subject:

lakersken80 wrote:
Laughable when I heard that comment, the only difference between the two clubs is expectations. They play in the same media market and the same people reporting on the Dodgers also report on the Angels as well.


it did not make sense to me....I mean I could get if he wanted to avoid CA all together because it was too far from family in Texas or the high taxes.....but dude makes it sound like he would be forced to attend movie premieres and have a weekly brunch with the Kardashians. With his paycheck, you can basically live as public or private as you choose anywhere in the US.
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PostPosted: Sat Dec 14, 2019 9:42 pm    Post subject:

LongBeachPoly wrote:
Quote:
Anthony Rendon on not choosing Dodgers: L.A.'s 'Hollywood lifestyle' not a fit

ANAHEIM, Calif. -- The Los Angeles Dodgers approached this year's winter meetings with striking aggression but nonetheless whiffed on the two biggest prizes in free agency. They offered Gerrit Cole a contract that reached $300 million but watched him join the New York Yankees on a record deal. They expressed interest in Anthony Rendon but learned that the sentiment wasn't mutual.

Instead, Rendon joined the Los Angeles Angels, who play 30 miles south in Anaheim, located outside of Los Angeles County.

Rendon, speaking during his introductory news conference on Saturday, spoke highly of the Dodgers organizationally but said from the podium that "the Hollywood lifestyle" of L.A. "didn't seem like it would be a fit for us as a family." Later, in a smaller scrum, Rendon, who was born and raised in Houston, was asked about his general hesitancy toward the state of California at the onset of the offseason, and he joked about the high tax rate.

"I just think environment itself," Rendon continued. "I think when people think about California, they think about straight Hollywood, that Hollywood glamour, whole bunch of flashes, so much paparazzi. But everyone said it's just the complete opposite here."





Laughable argument ..... most people 99.99% in LA proper are just normal people not living the Hollywood lifestyle ... in fact there’s a similar Hollywood lifestyle in Orange County if u wish to immerse yourself in that environment... if it’s location that causes issues Kobe commuted from Orange County ... unlike Rendon’s hitting he whiffs in this reply
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PostPosted: Sun Dec 15, 2019 7:10 am    Post subject:

JerryWest_44 wrote:

Laughable argument ..... most people 99.99% in LA proper are just normal people not living the Hollywood lifestyle ... in fact there’s a similar Hollywood lifestyle in Orange County if u wish to immerse yourself in that environment... if it’s location that causes issues Kobe commuted from Orange County ... unlike Rendon’s hitting he whiffs in this reply


Good points.

I never thought he was a great need/value for the Dodgers. Now, I'm even more thankful he did not sign.
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PostPosted: Sun Dec 15, 2019 11:48 am    Post subject:

Quote:

Dodgers whiff again on another star as they eye Francisco Lindor, Mike Clevinger


The news of another club not named the Dodgers acquiring another all-star-caliber player trickled out Sunday morning. The Cleveland Indians traded right-hander Corey Kluber, a two-time Cy Young Award winner, to the Texas Rangers. He was the third player the Dodgers had been strongly linked to who ended up going elsewhere this week, joining Gerrit Cole and Anthony Rendon.

The Dodgers connection made sense. They’re hunting for premium talent this off-season, and the 33-year-old Kluber resides in that echelon. He is a three-time all-star with a 2.94 ERA (earned-run average), 2.87 FIP (fielding independent pitching) and 1.036 WHIP (walks and hits per innings pitched) over the past six seasons. The Dodgers were rumored to have wanted Kluber last season before an injury-plagued 2019 limited him to seven starts.

But the Dodgers’ focus was not on Kluber recently. Instead, they have set their eyes on Cleveland shortstop Francisco Lindor and, to a lesser extent, Indians right-hander Mike Clevinger.

Lindor is the player the Dodgers want most. He is a charismatic 26-year-old switch-hitting star who has cemented himself as one of the best players in baseball during his five-year career. He would improve the Dodgers offensively and defensively. He is a premier player the Dodgers believe they need to overcome the October hump.

https://www.latimes.com/sports/dodgers/story/2019-12-15/dodgers-whiff-again-on-star-pitcher-corey-kluber

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LongBeachPoly
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PostPosted: Sun Dec 15, 2019 2:18 pm    Post subject:

Quote:
Alanna Rizzo
@alannarizzo

Roberts said the #Dodgers have been more aggressive in this year’s free agency picture because of the quality of FA in this class. #WinterMeetings2019


Yup, very aggressive so far.

Bumgarner to Diamondbacks for 5 yrs $85M
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PostPosted: Sun Dec 15, 2019 2:41 pm    Post subject:

Not too bummed about losing out on MadBum, Ryu is all but all but a lock now. The Indians trade is just a matter of time as well, then dump Seager for depth/picks.

Lindor, ss
Muncy, 1b
Turner, 3b
Bellinger, cf
Pollock/Joc, lf
Verdugo, rf
Taylor/Kike, 2b
Smith, c

Buehler
Ryu
Clevinger
Kershaw
Maeda/Urias/Gonsolin/Strip
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LongBeachPoly
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PostPosted: Sun Dec 15, 2019 6:00 pm    Post subject:

LonzoLegend2 wrote:
Ryu is all but all but a lock now.


Nope

Quote:

Sources -- LHP Hyun-Jin Ryu agrees to 4-year, $80M deal with Blue Jays


Last edited by LongBeachPoly on Sun Dec 22, 2019 8:55 pm; edited 1 time in total
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